Pylon Damage Thread

[Kanil]

well i couldn't resist so here's a test server axe/bio run. thematically, axe is my favorite set so it hurts to know axe is significantly weaker from a numerical standpoint on paper due to not having clobber and slower anim times.  given the SS build before, i wanted to try and leverage what strengths axe has with it's version of shatter being stronger and it's ability to be slotted for knockback IOs on all it's attacks and got some surprising results.

t4 muscle, t4 degen, t4 ageless, t4 assault hybrid (non-active)

 

it's more variable than war mace but generally still pretty stable. has a slightly lower average time (like 1m45s) vs mace's but in exchange it has some potential for really hilarious lucky streaks and might even be stronger in live play because of the nature of the high recharge of the build combined with force feedback/damage procs firing off on basically every single major swing.

i had a run that i didn't record that was like 56-59s with extreme amounts of luck, to where crit strikes procced off every single build up (and gaussian proccing every time too) and i spent a bit chasing that dragon but to no avail. there's some more slotting that can likely be done to make this build even more jacked up because whirling axe has FF but not cleave (or whatever axe's version of crowd control is) since i put a superior avalanche in there. it might be possible to just permanently sit around 250-280% recharge when doing regular stuff, with a 13s~ or so recharge time on build up

 

 

[Sir Myshkin]

10 hours ago, Kanil said:

well i couldn't resist

Would you mind adding your runs to the Pylon Submission "Database" (for lack of a better term)? The link to it is in my signature.

 

Edit: Just in case you have sigs turned off: Link

Edited December 24, 2019 by Sir Myshkin

[Kanil]

5 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Would you mind adding your runs to the Pylon Submission "Database" (for lack of a better term)? The link to it is in my signature.

 

Edit: Just in case you have sigs turned off: Link

done. messed up the formatting a bit and forgot to include the archetype on some of the results, though.

[Kanil]

i was thinking about how broadsword shares most of the anims with ba/wm, and thought 'well, theoretically it should have the luxury of being able to be procced out given the -def component of the attacks to maybe even the score' so i tried out a build. took a lot of fiddling around, but it's not bad - luckily, broadsword's primary attacks have the same kd proc factor as ba/wm so i'm able to slot very similarly to the axe build. in terms of ST damage, it's heavily reliant on force feedback firing off despite the actual FF proc being less reliable than battleaxe's version due to the recharge time being slightly faster on broadsword than BA.

 

that makes the standard time sit more around a 1m45-1m50s range with similar dips as wm/ba into the sub-1:30 range. the procs are pretty heavily spread, and i think there might be a better secondary chain (if ff doesn't go off) if i sacrifice boxing's slots/some def and super speed for slash but i can't be assed to respec and try it out. it's really bizarre to me that hack and slash have the exact same anim time despite one having half the recharge time.

 

given that broadsword's version of crowd control/pendulum doesn't have any kd/kb component, it's probably worse in live play than the ba/wm builds but interesting to see as a thought experiment how far you can take things. bio armor definitely seems to level the playing field pretty well in a solo single target situation on all of the i0 weapon sets, which is nice. mace obviously still has the advantage in crowd control's 10 target cap but that's just gonna be a given since mace got a buff pass while neither BS nor BA did.

 

it's really hilarious to me that this vid starts off with a miss, but i guess that's just RNG for you.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Kanil

[Bodai]

Hello, I thought I would join in on the fun.  I am trying to decide what my next AT is going to be, so I thought I would try this with my current character for some perspective, and so that you can all have a good laugh I suppose.

 

This is my MA/SR built for incarnate survival and AoE attacks (60% positional def, 55% s/l resists), not built for DPS, recharge, etc.

Also a themed build that I love playing, love the animations, decked out with purple sets, and otherwise über is most all situations.

A huge component of this build is a ton of AoE knockdown/knockup and disorient, I can AE farm up to +3/8.  Everyone except the EB is dead before they even get a hit in, spending all their time standing back up.

 

Run 1    8:24    regular powers only other than incarnate passives (ran out of end later on and dropped toggles)
Run 2    8:22    hybrid & judgement
Run 3    1:52    lore pets, hybrid, and judgement
Run 4    5:29    envenomed dagger (no lore pets)

 

I did take videos of these, but I suspect no one will care because of how pathetic these numbers are, my lore pets are better than I am.

I can also post my build if ppl are interested.

I have never done this before, honestly didn't think my AT could survive doing it, but that was never a problem even without toggles.  So I am happy about that at least, actually I could stand there all day and ignore the pylon....

 

I am going to guess that /SR is not a great match for a DPS build, and I am also not sure that MA is at the top of the charts either.  But on the other hand I never tried to make a DPS built with these.  I suspect it would not go well even if you sacrificed playability to do it. 

 

I am looking to try a new AT that is capable of taking down an AV/GM solo.  With a few constraints:

- Mainly looking at melee, ranged damage (blaster), and maybe controllers, never been a fan of pets even on my ill/rad that I love

- It is looking like tw/bio is the flavor of the day I might be after, but not sure I can fall in love with the playstyle and animation or not

- The thing that is attracting me to it is all the hype, just over 1 minute pylon times, and crazy good AoE (I really love AoE and crowd control)

 

So, I had created a post about deciding on my next AT, and someone commented that I should come to this thread and poke around, so here I am.

 

-Bodai

Edited January 6, 2020 by Bodai

[nihilii]

14 hours ago, Bodai said:

I did take videos of these, but I suspect no one will care because of how pathetic these numbers are, my lore pets are better than I am.

I think Lore pets are going to be better than most characters, in ideal damage situations. The Pylon thread is skewed with people specifically building high ST DPS builds.

Plus, a 8:20 time means ~200 DPS, while a 2:20 time means ~400 DPS. Because of regeneration (as you've seen with your envenomed dagger), the difference isn't as large as looking at times alone might suggest.

With your current DPS, you should be able to take down most level 50 AVs; and close to all of them if you're willing to use Lore and/or Envenomed Daggers. GMs are trickier with their humongous regen, but once again using Daggers and if you have the incarnate materials to spare, getting the Longbow robot for its significant -regen, might carry you through them.

That being said, no question some builds could work better than MA/SR. TW/bio is obviously two notches above anything else.

[Sir Myshkin]

19 hours ago, Bodai said:

I am going to guess that /SR is not a great match for a DPS build, and I am also not sure that MA is at the top of the charts either.  But on the other hand I never tried to make a DPS built with these.  I suspect it would not go well even if you sacrificed playability to do it.

There are a handful of key factors besides just raw power that contribute to more effective "DPS" that gets caught up in this thread. Don't think that taking the Pylon down in 8:00 is a bad thing, you still managed to produce a level of performance (as nihilii said) to take out a standard level 50 AV. Some of the key factors you've got to look at to help improve your character (or next choice of character) are adapting to these expectations:

• Laser focused chain optimized to cycle your best DPA (damage per animation) attack(s).
• Capability to include some method of -Res to improve the value of your damage, whether that be internally provided from a set like Bio Armor, or through the -Res procs (Achilles Heel, Fury of the Gladiator).
• Inclusion of key Incarnate abilities, typically Degenerative or Reactive Interfaces for their -MaxHP or -Res respectively for your Interface choice, and Musculature for Alpha.
• The possibility of including a few damage procs into your attacks.
• Adding the Gaussian's +BU proc into your "Build Up" to more consistently provide a higher spike of +Dam per activation.
• Remember that there's a lot of investment in the high tier builds, and that the top three fastest times (>60/s) are owned by builds that use pets: Ill/Storm Controller, a Crabbermind, and a MM build or two. For a Melee class to tackle >2:00 is a demonstration of a lot of performance commitment.

If you do decide to roll a new character for another attempt at a "Big Orange Numbers" character, keep in mind that there are some approaches that don't require as large an investment if you research the needs, and build accordingly to still hit >4:00, if you're really trying to chase a time concept. Even a Tanker (in current scaling on the production server, not Beta) takes 10:00-11:00 to solo a Pylon, and that's technically still good enough to whittle down several AV's in this game if you're patient enough. You'll need to decide whether you want to be Melee, Ranged, or Support to start building a path towards the next AT and Power Sets, a there's currently not really a combination in this game that can't Solo and AV, but a bit smaller list on the one's that'll successfully solo a GM, and it'd more likely to be one of the support classes that'll do that for you without relying on specific Pet usage (Patrons/Lore).

[Bodai]

12 hours ago, nihilii said:

Plus, a 8:20 time means ~200 DPS, while a 2:20 time means ~400 DPS. Because of regeneration (as you've seen with your envenomed dagger), the difference isn't as large as looking at times alone might suggest.

Yeah, I think I read somewhere on here that you needed 300+ DPS to defeat a typical AV.

Also, I was under the impression that the pylon would kill me before I killed it, so that is something I learned.

I think you have to get lucky with lore pets, they seem quite crunchy most of them.

12 hours ago, nihilii said:

With your current DPS, you should be able to take down most level 50 AVs; and close to all of them if you're willing to use Lore and/or Envenomed Daggers. GMs are trickier with their humongous regen, but once again using Daggers and if you have the incarnate materials to spare, getting the Longbow robot for its significant -regen, might carry you through them.

That being said, no question some builds could work better than MA/SR. TW/bio is obviously two notches above anything else.

Huh, I guess I will have to put this to the test, and then there is the issue of AVs greater than lvl 50 as well.

I was also under the impression that AVs and GMs were basically the same problem, now I get that GMs are much harder than AVs, I did try to kill a GM myself after I finished my latest new build, and it was going nowhere.

I will start saving up for the Longbow robot, thank you for that tip.

 

Yeah, so TW/bio sounds really nice, but it sounds like there are some issues, or maybe we could call them trade-offs:

- Doesn't have the debuff resists like other sets, I know my MA/SR has allot.  This could get annoying.

- Complicated to play / clicky, and other sets may interfere with it, including bio.

                    - I would just have to try it to find out, I might even really like it, never know

- Sounds like it is very end expensive, even worse than my MA/SR, so that could be hard to deal with

- But, like a blaster, maybe the idea is to just do soooo much damage that everything is dead before it can become an issue, the melee version of a glass cannon.  If you just accept that, maybe it can still be fun.  I know my MA/SR's survival is heavily influenced by all the knockdown / knock-up / disorient I have, and it is fun to "live on the edge".

- I can share my build if you want, it's 60% positionals, and 55% s/l resist, as well as scaling resists

 

Some seriously good info and insight here though, thank you.

 

-Bodai

[Bodai]

6 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

There are a handful of key factors besides just raw power that contribute to more effective "DPS" that gets caught up in this thread. Don't think that taking the Pylon down in 8:00 is a bad thing, you still managed to produce a level of performance (as nihilii said) to take out a standard level 50 AV. Some of the key factors you've got to look at to help improve your character (or next choice of character) are adapting to these expectations:

I guess I was disappointed because I didn't think I could do that, so I will adjust my expectations.  I will also try it on a couple of AVs.

 

6 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

• Laser focused chain optimized to cycle your best DPA (damage per animation) attack(s).
• Capability to include some method of -Res to improve the value of your damage, whether that be internally provided from a set like Bio Armor, or through the -Res procs (Achilles Heel, Fury of the Gladiator).

This is a really good idea.  To be fair, my current build is slotted for incarnate defense softcap and lots of s/l resist, but now you are making me think about what a DPS build might consist of.  Debuffing resistance and regen and stuff is a good idea (if it can work), I was only thinking in terms of increasing damage.

6 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

• Inclusion of key Incarnate abilities, typically Degenerative or Reactive Interfaces for their -MaxHP or -Res respectively for your Interface choice, and Musculature for Alpha.

Yes, I can definitely do a better job on incarnates in relation to this, thank you very much for the tips.

6 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

• The possibility of including a few damage procs into your attacks.
• Adding the Gaussian's +BU proc into your "Build Up" to more consistently provide a higher spike of +Dam per activation.

So, I do have some of those and some procs that do other good things, I just was not focusing on the damage one's.

I have allot of purple sets, but this is what was making me feel really stupid and worthless.... an expensive build but bad DPS.

But, you are making me feel better, and tw/bio is really ridiculous, looks like both the base damage in the attacks is much higher, and then /bio takes it to 11.

6 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

• Remember that there's a lot of investment in the high tier builds, and that the top three fastest times (>60/s) are owned by builds that use pets: Ill/Storm Controller, a Crabbermind, and a MM build or two. For a Melee class to tackle >2:00 is a demonstration of a lot of performance commitment.

I really liked my ill/rad and fire/kin controllers, I would not expect them to survive soloing a pylon.

Other than that I have not been interested in pet-focused ATs from a playstyle perspective, but they are impressive.

I suppose I would not expect to out-damage a blaster either.... although tw/bio appears to do that too, hehe.

6 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

If you do decide to roll a new character for another attempt at a "Big Orange Numbers" character, keep in mind that there are some approaches that don't require as large an investment if you research the needs, and build accordingly to still hit >4:00, if you're really trying to chase a time concept. Even a Tanker (in current scaling on the production server, not Beta) takes 10:00-11:00 to solo a Pylon, and that's technically still good enough to whittle down several AV's in this game if you're patient enough. You'll need to decide whether you want to be Melee, Ranged, or Support to start building a path towards the next AT and Power Sets, a there's currently not really a combination in this game that can't Solo and AV, but a bit smaller list on the one's that'll successfully solo a GM, and it'd more likely to be one of the support classes that'll do that for you without relying on specific Pet usage (Patrons/Lore).

This is some good information and advice, seriously.

- I will play around with mids and see what I can come up with for an MA/SR DPS build, I am starting to agree with others that creating a build for incarnate softcaps is nice, but most of the time you are not playing that content unless you really only hold out for it.  And generally you will be on a team and have your defense buffed anyways (I have seen 120+%...)

- So maybe I will stick to the normal 45% softcap and see how much damage I can squeeze out, but without lore pets I think you are probably right, might be able to hit 4:00 minutes or so.

- Then I will play around with tw/bio, maybe roll one up and give it a go, I suspect I will love it or hate it relatively quickly, I can PL it up to 40 or so since ppl say it is a late blooming set.

- Still want to find a blaster I like too, but this information has given me some new inspiration

 

 

Really great feedback, I greatly appreciate it.

 

-Bodai

[BrandX]

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Science Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dual Blades
Secondary Power Set: Electric Armor
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Nimble Slash -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx:35(5), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg:35(5), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(7)
Level 1: Charged Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(7), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(9), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(9), GldArm-3defTpProc:50(11)
Level 2: Ablating Strike -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx:35(11), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg:35(13), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(13), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(15), AchHee-ResDeb%:20(15)
Level 4: Lightning Field -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx:50(17), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(17), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(19), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc:50(19)
Level 6: Conductive Shield -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(21), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg:50(21), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(23), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(50)
Level 8: Blinding Feint -- SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprCrtStr-Dmg/Rchg:50(23), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(25), SprCrtStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(25), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(27), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit:50(27)
Level 10: Static Shield -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(29), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31), UnbGrd-Max HP%:50(50)
Level 12: Typhoon's Edge -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg:50(31), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(31), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(33), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(33), SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit:50(33)
Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Grounded -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A)
Level 18: Vengeful Slice -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx:50(34), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(34), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(34), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(36), Hct-Dam%:50(36)
Level 20: Energize -- Prv-Heal:50(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx:50(36), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg:50(37), Prv-Heal/Rchg:50(37), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx:50(37), Prv-Absorb%:50(39)
Level 22: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(39), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg:50(39), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(40), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(50)
Level 24: Weave -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx:50(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40), ShlWal-Def:50(40), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:50(42), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(42)
Level 26: Sweeping Strike -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(42), Arm-Acc/Rchg:50(43), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx:50(43), Arm-Dam%:50(43), FuroftheG-ResDeb%:50(45)
Level 28: Lightning Reflexes -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 30: Fly -- WntGif-ResSlow:50(A)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- Rct-Def:50(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx:50(45), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(45), Rct-ResDam%:50(46), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(46)
Level 35: Power Sink -- EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg:50(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg:50(46)
Level 38: Tactics -- RctRtc-ToHit:20(A), RctRtc-ToHit/Rchg:20(48), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx:50(48), EndRdx-I:50(48)
Level 41: Assault -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 44: Stealth -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 47: Confront -- PrfZng-Dam%:50(A)
Level 49: Zapp -- HO:Nucle(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+:40(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:50(3), Pnc-Heal/+End:50(29)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod:50(A), PrfShf-End%:50(3)
Level 49: Quick Form 
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon 
Level 50: Preemptive Radial Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment 
------------

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No Incarnates yet.  255.64 DPS (5 minutes) Blinding Feint > Attack Vitals > Repeat

Edited January 7, 2020 by BrandX

[Kanil]

i kinda had a thought, like 'wait, i should be able to retroactively apply the things that make that battle axe build really strong to mace since my mace build was pretty vanilla' and i did.

 

so, here's a 1:15~ time for wm/bio.

 

 

timer starts at 4s~ when siphon dna is hit. i'm not actually sure if i gain time with siphon dna vs. just doing the chain but i decided to test it like once and got that run, haha.

the actual average of the mace was brought down by roughly 10s, so instead of averaging a solid 1:35 consistently, it averages a solid 1:25 pretty consistently now.

 

with this run, i'm almost certain that mace would be able to break 1m with a good stroke of luck.

 

[Aracknight]

Revisited this for the first time in a while.  MA/SR.  My Attack chain was SK->CS->SK->CK.  I use Musculature Core Alpha, Diamagnetic Radial Interface, and Assault Core Hybrid (did not use). Did not use Lore or Judgment.   I was able to get down to 7:32 with a DPS of 212.  I think I could have been faster had I not tried to slip in Eagle Claw for the first few rotations at the beginning.  I also didn't use build up, but I do have Gaussian's chance for build up in Tactics, which I forgot to turn on for the first couple of minutes.  I also need to get better at timing Practiced Brawler so I don't get randomly knocked back because I let it lapse.  But that's a 2 minute improvement with only minor adjustments (Changed from Support Hybrid to Assault) and no real skill at doing this yet.

 

I think I've learned that this sort of thing not only takes some solid Mids-Fu, but some skill as well.  There's some timing and focus involved as well to work more efficiently.  I solod Bat'zul at the end of Virgil Tarikoss last weekend, so I thought I'd give this a whirl, though I did use an envenomed dagger or 30 on Bat'Zul, lol.

[Sir Myshkin]

3 hours ago, Kanil said:

timer starts at 4s~ when siphon dna is hit. i'm not actually sure if i gain time with siphon dna vs. just doing the chain but i decided to test it like once and got that run, haha.

the actual average of the mace was brought down by roughly 10s, so instead of averaging a solid 1:35 consistently, it averages a solid 1:25 pretty consistently now.

You should try a run without DNA in there. It seems to be a bit hit-and-miss one how much value it really provides at that level. Considering you're talking such an absurd time to begin with, an extra swing of your Mace might prove to be more beneficial than the Regen differential at that point, especially considering how the "when" is for Pylon's specifically on recovery (server ticks). When I did the most recent Bio/KM Tanker test on Beta I had tried some runs using DNA Siphon, and also back when I did the SS testing, and in those >3:00 categories, it was either marginally one bit up or down, or potentially harmful depending on the structure. For Kinetic specifically it actually ended up having slightly better just skipping it because I could loose momentum in the Siphons if it fell in the wrong place; it was too fickle to time properly to matter.

 

Mostly, just a curiosity. In a 1:00+ Run you'd have to have hit it twice, meaning there's 3.65 seconds you're not attacking. If we're talking about being able to generate 600+DPS, that's 1,800 damage missed, or about 4% of the Pylon's health. I don't remember off the top exactly what value DNA Siphon ends up restricting the "regen" of the Pylon by, but I... don't think it's greater than your effective output at that point.

[Frosticus]

1 hour ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Mostly, just a curiosity. In a 1:00+ Run you'd have to have hit it twice, meaning there's 3.65 seconds you're not attacking. If we're talking about being able to generate 600+DPS, that's 1,800 damage missed, or about 4% of the Pylon's health. I don't remember off the top exactly what value DNA Siphon ends up restricting the "regen" of the Pylon by, but I... don't think it's greater than your effective output at that point.

102.26 to 84.58hp/sec

 

the -regen of dna siphon isn't really "useful". I guess it could help a tiny bit during some godmode powers where your damage output is decreased a lot, but even then...

[Sovera]

16 hours ago, Kanil said:

i kinda had a thought, like 'wait, i should be able to retroactively apply the things that make that battle axe build really strong to mace since my mace build was pretty vanilla' and i did.

 

so, here's a 1:15~ time for wm/bio.

 

 

timer starts at 4s~ when siphon dna is hit. i'm not actually sure if i gain time with siphon dna vs. just doing the chain but i decided to test it like once and got that run, haha.

the actual average of the mace was brought down by roughly 10s, so instead of averaging a solid 1:35 consistently, it averages a solid 1:25 pretty consistently now.

 

with this run, i'm almost certain that mace would be able to break 1m with a good stroke of luck.

 

Darn impressive, it's downright stepping on TW's toes. Pity mace has such bad bad baaaaad skins compared to the arm long list of skins swords get.

 

Could you show us what you were using and mention your rotation?

[Kanil]

14 hours ago, Sovera said:

Darn impressive, it's downright stepping on TW's toes. Pity mace has such bad bad baaaaad skins compared to the arm long list of skins swords get.

 

Could you show us what you were using and mention your rotation?

haha, yeah. i really dislike mace from a conceptual/thematic level and love battle axe for that exact reason. i ended up switching up my main character from a warmace character to the battle axe character earlier due to that specifically. it's one of those things where it's comforting to know that it's pretty likely that i have the strongest build for that and do more damage than basically anything besides a tw/bio character.

 

anyhow, here's the build:

 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
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the string itself is just jawbreaker->clobber->shatter over and over again. the proc rate for force feedback is good enough, but since there's potential gaps without some recharge enhancements i used the dam/rech and acc/dam/rech purples on clobber and shatter to make sure they form a tight string regardless of whether ff fires off or not. this means you get to use the ridiculously stupid strong string AND get the benefit of having build up fire off more and hasten be extremely-more-than-permanent (like, 20s to spare on the average every refresh?)

 

i know a lot of people would be uncomfortable with the def/res as there are genuine pretty big holes there, but it's one of those things where a single purple mostly accounts for that weakness and bio armor's ridiculous absorb click powers synergize with the FF procs firing off so hard.  purples are easy to come by, and defense debuff can be accounted for by cranking your resists and just killing the enemies faster than they kill you with your double absorb clickies. 

 

you just gotta watch out for that psi hole, which will wreck the hell out of you.

 

also as an aside, i tested a fortunata build and was getting 3:30~ pylon times using follow up->lunge->procced out dominate (5x procs) and psychic wail with gladiator's fury in it. it's kind of annoying that their ST damage is that low, but i guess that's the tradeoff for having a nuke and everything else.

 

it really makes me wonder just how bad night widows are since they don't get build up AND follow up while fortunatas get to use aim and follow up. the disconnect in power is absolutely bizarre - i just can't find a reason to ever actually pick night widows besides thematics as a choice between the two unlike banes and crabs.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Kanil

[Sovera]

2 hours ago, Kanil said:

haha, yeah. i really dislike mace from a conceptual/thematic level and love battle axe for that exact reason. i ended up switching up my main character from a warmace character to the battle axe character earlier due to that specifically. it's one of those things where it's comforting to know that it's pretty likely that i have the strongest build for that and do more damage than basically anything besides a tw/bio character.

 

anyhow, here's the build:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
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the string itself is just jawbreaker->clobber->shatter over and over again. the proc rate for force feedback is good enough, but since there's potential gaps without some recharge enhancements i used the dam/rech and acc/dam/rech purples on clobber and shatter to make sure they form a tight string regardless of whether ff fires off or not. this means you get to use the ridiculously stupid strong string AND get the benefit of having build up fire off more and hasten be extremely-more-than-permanent (like, 20s to spare on the average every refresh?)

 

i know a lot of people would be uncomfortable with the def/res as there are genuine pretty big holes there, but it's one of those things where a single purple mostly accounts for that weakness and bio armor's ridiculous absorb click powers synergize with the FF procs firing off so hard.  purples are easy to come by, and defense debuff can be accounted for by cranking your resists and just killing the enemies faster than they kill you with your double absorb clickies. 

 

you just gotta watch out for that psi hole, which will wreck the hell out of you.

 

also as an aside, i tested a fortunata build and was getting 3:30~ pylon times using follow up->lunge->procced out dominate (5x procs) and psychic wail with gladiator's fury in it. it's kind of annoying that their ST damage is that low, but i guess that's the tradeoff for having a nuke and everything else.

 

it really makes me wonder just how bad night widows are since they don't get build up AND follow up while fortunatas get to use aim and follow up. the disconnect in power is absolutely bizarre - i just can't find a reason to ever actually pick night widows besides thematics as a choice between the two unlike banes and crabs.

Actually widows had one of the first one minute times according to the old boards. I remember reading about it a couple months ago. I'm not surprised at the Fortunata since despite what HD claims I never felt the ST chain to be overpowering (or perhaps I don't take into account the DoT). But it was nice and fluid plus dat huge radius nuke *drool*....

[Kanil]

21 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Actually widows had one of the first one minute times according to the old boards. I remember reading about it a couple months ago. I'm not surprised at the Fortunata since despite what HD claims I never felt the ST chain to be overpowering (or perhaps I don't take into account the DoT). But it was nice and fluid plus dat huge radius nuke *drool*....

the hell? i really wonder how that was managed. followup slash lunge? even with bio armors insane offensive boosts and the presence of crits/crit and strikes proc stuff like dual blades struggled to push below 2min without a good attack chain

Edited January 10, 2020 by Kanil

[Sovera]

3 hours ago, Kanil said:

the hell? i really wonder how that was managed. followup slash lunge? even with bio armors insane offensive boosts and the presence of crits/crit and strikes proc stuff like dual blades struggled to push below 2min without a good attack chain

After you said I thought I misremembered and went to hunt it up. Turns out it was about 1 minute 26 though there was controversy if the numbers were good or not. Apparently other players tried the same build and got 2 minutes. Still darn decent.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20120906191954/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=130754&page=130

[BrandX]

I'm trying to figure out how 3:30 on a pylon is thought to be low DPS.

 

I soloed 12/13 AVs on Maria Jenkins with 255.  Couldn't beat Seige and his heal. 😕

[Microcosm]

4 hours ago, BrandX said:

I'm trying to figure out how 3:30 on a pylon is thought to be low DPS.

 

I soloed 12/13 AVs on Maria Jenkins with 255.  Couldn't beat Seige and his heal. 😕

I think when we started getting 500+ dps on certain combos we began to forget that reaching 300 dps used to be a huge deal. It still is a big deal for most combos, and 3:30 on a fort is solid. To put in perspective, the best time I ever got on a bane (without hybrid toggled) was 2:49 and on a pb was 3:13, so it's not horribly far off from those.

[Kanil]

5 minutes ago, Microcosm said:

I think when we started getting 500+ dps on certain combos we began to forget that reaching 300 dps used to be a huge deal. It still is a big deal for most combos, and 3:30 on a fort is solid. To put in perspective, the best time I ever got on a bane (without hybrid toggled) was 2:49 and on a pb was 3:13, so it's not horribly far off from those.

haha, it's definitely all relative. i never pyloned on live, so my standards are i25 specific and on the extreme outlier of bio armor scrapping.

 

that PB time really makes me think i can do better on that fort, especially looking at that old thread about NW damage. fitting in shatter armor and a patron pet should really make the st damage skyrocket, i think?

[Microcosm]

1 hour ago, Kanil said:

haha, it's definitely all relative. i never pyloned on live, so my standards are i25 specific and on the extreme outlier of bio armor scrapping.

 

that PB time really makes me think i can do better on that fort, especially looking at that old thread about NW damage. fitting in shatter armor and a patron pet should really make the st damage skyrocket, i think?

What are you saying about pbs!?.... Just kidding.  Thanks for posting your build by the way. I had a wm/rad from a long while ago that I couldn't get past 1:36 at best. Looks like your clobber slotting was much better than mine, so I'm going to try again.

 

Edit: And a new best time of .... 1:35. Sigh.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Microcosm

[Frosticus]

2 hours ago, Kanil said:

haha, it's definitely all relative. i never pyloned on live, so my standards are i25 specific and on the extreme outlier of bio armor scrapping.

 

that PB time really makes me think i can do better on that fort, especially looking at that old thread about NW damage. fitting in shatter armor and a patron pet should really make the st damage skyrocket, i think?

NW can definitely come I  under 2 mins without hybrid or patron pets .

 

melee fort I'm sure could too

[HelenCarnate]

1 hour ago, Frosticus said:

NW can definitely come I  under 2 mins without hybrid or patron pets .

 

melee fort I'm sure could too

Yea I will give this one a try eventually with something like this.  Although it will need ageless to not run out of endurance. 

 

Spoiler

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Poison Dart -- SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDmnofA-Dmg/Rchg(39), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprDmnofA-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprDmnofA-Rchg/DmgFear%(40)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 2: Strike -- SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprSpdBit-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprSpdBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprSpdBit-Rchg/Global Toxic(37)
Level 4: Combat Training: Offensive -- Acc-I(A)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(7), ShlWal-Def(7), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(37), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(46)
Level 8: Follow Up -- GldStr-%Dam(A), TchofDth-Dam%(9), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(9), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Mk'Bit-Dam%(37)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(11), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(13)
Level 12: Super Jump -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Spin -- Arm-Dam%(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(15), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Arm-Acc/Rchg(36), Obl-%Dam(36)
Level 16: Lunge -- Hct-Dam%(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(17), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Hct-Acc/Rchg(19), TchofDth-Dam%(21)
Level 18: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 20: Tactical Training: Leadership -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Foresight -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(23), Rct-Def/EndRdx(23), Rct-Def/Rchg(27)
Level 24: Mask Presence -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Rct-Def(25), Rct-Def/EndRdx(27)
Level 26: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 28: Mind Link -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(29), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(29), Rct-Def/Rchg(34), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Rct-ResDam%(34)
Level 30: Slash -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(31), TchofDth-Dam%(31), GldStr-%Dam(31), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Mk'Bit-Dam%(33)
Level 32: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 35: Tactical Training: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 38: Gloom -- Apc-Dam%(A), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(43), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Apc-Acc/Rchg(43), GldJvl-Dam%(46)
Level 41: Dark Obliteration -- Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Rgn-Dmg(45), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(45), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(46), PstBls-Dam%(50)
Level 44: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(48), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(48), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(48), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A), Clr-EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Conditioning 
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(40), Mrc-Rcvry+(42)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(42)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 0: Born In Battle 
Level 0: High Pain Threshold 
Level 0: Invader 
Level 0: Marshal 
------------
------------

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by HelenCarnate