Pylon Damage Thread

[Ratch_]

Took Claws stalker for another run, this time with bio for a more relative time to others in this thread since the secondary does make a considerable damage difference. Still getting pretty good times in the 1:30s to low 2mins depending on build up variance.
 

 

[SomeGuy]

On 7/7/2021 at 12:32 PM, Ratch_ said:

Took Claws stalker for another run, this time with bio for a more relative time to others in this thread since the secondary does make a considerable damage difference. Still getting pretty good times in the 1:30s to low 2mins depending on build up variance.
 

 

What we're you getting without Assault running? I've always been curious how claws stalker and scrapper compare to each other due to the lack of FU for stalkers.

[Ratch_]

1 hour ago, SomeGuy said:

What we're you getting without Assault running? I've always been curious how claws stalker and scrapper compare to each other due to the lack of FU for stalkers.

Around 2 minutes flat consistently

 

[SomeGuy]

10 hours ago, Ratch_ said:

Around 2 minutes flat consistently

 

Whoah, assault was adding a lot.

[Ratch_]

3 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

Whoah, assault was adding a lot.

yea, it was really weird. like i said before it never really makes any difference for me on scrappers. Totally different story on stalkers though...i had the same behavior with stj/bio stalker that I also tested that same day. Considerably lower times with assault hybid

[nihilii]

Claws/Bio/Soul Tanker, ranged

Focus -> Gloom -> Shockwave -> Dark Obliteration -> Focus -> Gloom -> Soul Tentacles.
Dark Obliteration doesn't recharge fast enough, so there's a gap every two chains.

Musculature/Ageless/Degen/Assault

All runs with Hybrid on

 

5:28 = 244 DPS. Endurance was struggling, bad.

4:44 = 262 DPS. Removed Weave/Tough/Maneuvers. Added Pyronic Judgement (one use every 90s instead of Dark Oblit!).

 

+ 1 run in melee, just to see how much damage the auras would add

3:22 = 317 DPS

 

Build

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[Olerus]

One note on 'proc monster' builds it is possible to determine whether proc is better or worse than a damage enhancement for a given animation and recharge, so long as a power is following the damage formulas (0.2*(0.8*Recharge+1.8).  Note that DoTs often break that rule.

 

For instance, a 4s power should have a damage scale of 1.   For an archetype with a 1.0 damage scalar, a +5 level 50 damage IO will increase the base 55.61 damage by 53%, or 29.47.  A +5 Purple: Damage IO will instead increase the damage by 36.84.  Meanwhile, a 3.5 PPM proc will add somewhere between 19 and 24 damage, based on the animation of the power.  So the first +5 damage IO will add more damage than the first proc.  Assuming Musculature Core as the alpha, the second +5 damage IO will increase damage by 30.15% or 16.77.  So a 4s recharge power following the damage formula with no need for accuracy or endurance enhancements will be best slotted by placing the following priority on procs:

 

1. Purple procs
2. Purple damage +5
3. Basic damage +5
4. Regular procs

 

Repeating that process, we see that the following is true for various recharge levels if we look at just normal procs and damage IOs (using animation values of 0.67 to 1.83 for sub 10s and 1.07 to 2.53 for 10s and higher) for :

 

• Recharge: Damage added by first +5 IO, Damage added by second +5 IO, Damage range added by proc
• 6s: 39, 22, 27-32
• 8s: 48, 27, 37-41
• 10s: 58, 32, 46-52
• 12s: 67, 38, 55-61
• 16s: 86, 49, 65 (capped percentage chance)
• 20s: 105, 59, 65 (rare)
• 24: 124, 70, 65 (rare)
• 32: 201, 92, 65 (rare)

So what can we tell from this?  Basically, that the first damage enhancement is always better than the first basic proc for an archetype with a 1.0 damage scalar.  This is even more true for purple damage procs.  The ratio of the procs vs the damage enhancements shows where this stops being true.  In general, a purple damage enhancement will outscale a 3.5 PPM proc even for defenders particularly in the 8-12s range where most attacks that are used in top attack chains lie.  A basic Invention: Damage+5, on the other hand, will be worse for Defenders, Controllers, Corrupters, melee AT ranged attacks, and EATs in this range.  This doesn't account for crit mechanics that benefit twice from +damage.  

 

So the basic rules we can take from this are for single target attacks following the recharge formula:

1. Purple 4.5 PPM procs are almost always going to beat any damage enhancement (Blasters and Scrappers do a little more in the 4-6s range).   
2. The first +5 Purple: Damage will almost always be better than a 3.5 PPM proc. 
3. The second damage +5 enhancement will always be worse than the a 3.5 PPM proc. 
4. The first Invention: Damage +5 will beat out a 3.5 PPM proc in all ranges except for Defenders, Controllers, Corrupters, melee AT ranged attacks, and EATs in the 8-12s range, barring critical mechanics (Scourge, Containment).  

 

 

[WitchofDread]

This might have already been covered but where does Dark Melee sit within all this?

[Kanil]

street justice/bio/mu scrapper

t3 muscle core, t4 destiny core, t3 assault radial (inactive)

avg: 1m49s

Spoiler

1m26s
2m2s
1m34
1m59s
1m28s
2m
2m
1m43s
2m10s
2m
1m45s
1m43s
2m
1m51s
1m41s

 

 

the variation is so high because of how much crit snipe+ crushing uppercut with build up + gaussian's does, haha. got a lot of freak runs but overall the 'normal' performance is pretty godawful. i've never seen this many 2m+ times on a bio scrapper before!

[Bopper]

12 minutes ago, Kanil said:

street justice/bio/mu scrapper

t3 muscle core, t4 destiny core, t3 assault radial (inactive)

avg: 1m49s

  Reveal hidden contents

1m26s
2m2s
1m34
1m59s
1m28s
2m
2m
1m43s
2m10s
2m
1m45s
1m43s
2m
1m51s
1m41s

 

 

the variation is so high because of how much crit snipe+ crushing uppercut with build up + gaussian's does, haha. got a lot of freak runs but overall the 'normal' performance is pretty godawful. i've never seen this many 2m+ times on a bio scrapper before!

It's worth noting the snipe damage on Scrappers is doing less than its supposed to. But it will be fixed in page 3

[Dismiss]

I posted about a pylon simulator that I am coding here:

 

 

I'm trying to check for accuracy right now, so if anyone has a lot of time for a given build (hopefully 10+) please give the post a read and get in touch with me.

[Elia87]

On 8/6/2021 at 2:26 PM, WitchofDread said:

This might have already been covered but where does Dark Melee sit within all this?

Also would like to know 😀

[SomeGuy]

50 minutes ago, Elia87 said:

Also would like to know 😀

My DM/BIO/MB is somewhere around 1:50. That isn't Soul Drain scumming with a bunch of monkeys or something at the start. Only DMG+ boost for soul drain is the pylon. So, it can be a LOT faster if you soul drain stack. Even then, it's not going to be as fast as the other top-tier DPS, but the set is fun. Lots.

[SomeGuy]

I updated some of my times and got around to recording some I hadn't yet. Still not motivated to re-learn TW again, but farting around with it I was still getting in the mid 1 minute range.

 

Pylon Times and Personal Rankings (All my own builds/characters. No lore/hybrid/temps used. These are the average of 10+ runs.)

 

Scrapper     EM/BIO/MB            1:23 (post nerf)
Scrapper     DB/BIO/MB            1:25 (post nerf) 1:21 (pre-nerf)
Scrapper     WM/BIO/MB          1:31 (post nerf)
Scrapper     CLAWS/BIO/MB      1:32 (post nerf) 1:26 (pre-nerf)

Scrapper     TW/BIO/MA            1:35 (post nerf) 0:52 (pre-nerf)

Scrapper     DM/BIO/MB           1:59 (post nerf) 1:54 (pre-nerf)

 

DM/BIO/MB is frustrating to get times for. Destiny and Hasten both want to refresh around the time the pylon is about to drop. If I was Soul Drain scumming I KNOW that time would be a LOT lower. Napkin math says around 1:35. Kind of tempted to do a few runs and see.

 

I did do a KAT/ELA/MA a few years ago. I am really positive as KAT/BIO/MB it would get some smoking speed.

 

Scrapper     Kat/Ele/MA           2:27 (SD-GD-SotW)

 

I've gotten a lot better at maximizing DPS rotations between now and the prior times. If I was as efficient then, as I am now, the difference in times would be larger.

Edited August 16, 2021 by SomeGuy

[SomeGuy]

Wow. I really do not like TW's new chain. Face smash > skill, I guess.

 

TW/BIO/MA

1:35

 

BU [mom] RA AoD FT RA AoD FT RA [/mom] CB [mom] AoD FT RA AoD [/mom] CB [mom] RA AoD FT *HIT BU ANYWAYS*  is the chain I used.

Edited August 16, 2021 by SomeGuy

[Crystal87]

On 8/12/2021 at 5:06 PM, SomeGuy said:

My DM/BIO/MB is somewhere around 1:50. That isn't Soul Drain scumming with a bunch of monkeys or something at the start. Only DMG+ boost for soul drain is the pylon. So, it can be a LOT faster if you soul drain stack. Even then, it's not going to be as fast as the other top-tier DPS, but the set is fun. Lots.

What are the other top tier dps you speak about?

Edited August 16, 2021 by Crystal87

[SomeGuy]

9 hours ago, Crystal87 said:

What are the other top tier dps you speak about?

The ones in my posts.

 

EM, DB, WM, CLAWS, and TW all do better ST DPS than DM. By a noticeable amount. Those are just the sets I've tried. I wouldn't be shocked if Ice Melee and Kinetic Melee are pretty way up there. I know IM/KM are better ST DPS than FM (tested them all as x/SD). Hell, I'd be pretty surpsied if Electrical Melee on a stalker, paired with bio, isn't trouncing DM with ST. I was really surprised at how much ST DPS a ELM stalker does. Paired it with x/nin and got 2:34. I just enjoy scrappers. There are definitely other ATs cranking out better ST DPS (looking at some blasters and stalkers).

Edited August 16, 2021 by SomeGuy

[Crystal87]

13 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

The ones in my posts.

 

EM, DB, WM, CLAWS, and TW all do better ST DPS than DM. By a noticeable amount. Those are just the sets I've tried. I wouldn't be shocked if Ice Melee and Kinetic Melee are pretty way up there. I know IM/KM are better ST DPS than FM (tested them all as x/SD). Hell, I'd be pretty surpsied if Electrical Melee on a stalker, paired with bio, isn't trouncing DM with ST. I was really surprised at how much ST DPS a ELM stalker does. Paired it with x/nin and got 2:34. I just enjoy scrappers. There are definitely other ATs cranking out better ST DPS (looking at some blasters and stalkers).

I have both claw/sr and Wm/sd, really like both..Wm/sd trying to come up with a build x.x

[SomeGuy]

Ice Melee/Bio Armor/Moonbeam Scrapper

 

Average of 1:35 across a lot of runs. Same as my TW/BIO/MA's average now.

 

 

Crazy streaky for some reason. I've almost come to expect Freezing Touch to miss.

 

I just got a 1:07 and a 1:54. WTF.

Edited August 24, 2021 by SomeGuy

[Tsuko]

10 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

Ice Melee/Bio Armor/Moonbeam Scrapper

 

Average of 1:35 across a lot of runs. Same as my TW/BIO/MA's average now.

 

 

Crazy streaky for some reason. I've almost come to expect Freezing Touch to miss.

 

I just got a 1:07 and a 1:54. WTF.

i noticed that too on my Rad Armor / ice tanker ^^

Edited August 24, 2021 by Tsuko

[SomeGuy]

Scrapper     Rad/BIO/MB            2:14

 

Chain: DB-RSi-MB-DB-RSi-RSm

 

I was under the idea it would be better than this. Not sure where I am messing up.

 

On the bright side, it's incredibly consistent.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by SomeGuy

[Sovera]

12 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

Scrapper     Rad/BIO/MB            2:14

 

Chain: DB-RSi-MB-DB-RSi-RSm

 

I was under the idea it would be better than this. Not sure where I am messing up.

 

On the bright side, it's incredibly consistent.

 

 

 

I had a one off 1:45 once, but the rest of the time the numbers were like yours. I did Devastating, Radioactive Smash, Radioactive Siphon, Radioactive Smash. Auroxis had the same numbers too, or a bit lower but he relied on Shadow Meld where I built for full time protection and spikes with Barrier.

[SomeGuy]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

 

I had a one off 1:45 once, but the rest of the time the numbers were like yours. I did Devastating, Radioactive Smash, Radioactive Siphon, Radioactive Smash. Auroxis had the same numbers too, or a bit lower but he relied on Shadow Meld where I built for full time protection and spikes with Barrier.

Auroxis? The same dude that was active in the original pylon thread?

[Sovera]

5 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

Auroxis? The same dude that was active in the original pylon thread?

 

His post is quoted on that link, and a few posts before mine. I wouldn't know about the rest.

[Tsuko]

On 9/26/2020 at 10:32 PM, nihilii said:

Rad/bio/soul scrapper

T4 Musculature Core, T4 Degen Core, T4 Assault Radial, T4 Ageless

Devastating Blow -> Moonbeam -> Radiation Siphon -> Radioactive Smash

Misc clicks replace Radioactive Smash

 

Hybrid ON

1:16 = 632 DPS

1:17 = 625 DPS

 

Hybrid OFF

1:19 = 613 DPS

1:19 = 613 DPS

 

Easily my favorite build this month. For the last year, I thought on scrappers only stj/bio could reach 600+ dps (outside of tw/bio, obviously). At least the way I build my own characters, which may involve suboptimal choices.

But getting into the mindset of breaking sets and having absolutely no local recharge to maximise proc rate, and building attack chains around a full snipe crit + another crit does wonders.

 

While Street Justice sacrifices AoE output to get to those heights, Rad Melee has Atom Smasher for active destruction, and both Irradiated Ground and Contamination passively add AoE damage to your ST attack chain. Yum. It's TW in spirit without being so absurdly over the top in damage, but also without having to deal with Momentum. A fair price to pay for convenience.

 

Could use (many) more Pylon runs to get better estimates, but I also ran this character through Pylons as she was building her incarnates and saw a steady rise from 550ish while on Cardiac and low Hybrid/Degen to where we're at now. Fun.

 

Build:

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Maybe this will help ! 🙂