issue 26 Patch Notes for August 27th, 2019

[Abraxus]

42 minutes ago, Rock Em said:

I know an Abraxxas League of Legends youtuber.  Not you?

 

I played very little before my GPU went back in the day.  By the time I got a new system it was gone.  Still learning.  

 

 

Naw.  Different guy. 

[EiricEPadraig]

Holy crap. I'm out of it for a few days and this drops.

 

Thanks for everything! This is an incredible patch!!!

 

And now, I am off to look at costumes and base adds....

[PaxArcana]

7 hours ago, Rock Em said:

Give me ONE good reason why everyone needs instasnipe.  Just one.  Good luck.

Because everyone deserves to have fun, not just the select few.

[macskull]

On 8/28/2019 at 3:03 PM, Captain Powerhouse said:

No clue didn’t touch the power, but will look into it.

Any ETA on a fix for this?

[Captain Powerhouse]

There is a patch on the queue, don't have date, maybe the next couple days. I *think* that will be addressed, it seemed to work right on internal testing.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Captain Powerhouse

[kenlon]

1 hour ago, PaxArcana said:

Because everyone deserves to have fun, not just the select few.

Yup, that's about right.

[Cinnder]

10 hours ago, Rock Em said:

Why does everyone need instasnipe?  I don't think there's a good reason.  Sacrifice slots for it just like I did. 

 

There's a little too much giving it all away for free going on around here, me thinks.  Not good for longevity.  Perhaps no one is counting on that anyway.

 

 

I have to say these two thoughts do resonate with me.

 

Regarding the first, in my experience with MMOs, it seems the more devs try to put 'balance' in the game, the more similar and generic the classes and power sets become.  One of the main reasons I like CoX is because replaying the same content with a different AT or power set can feel almost like a different game.  I would hate to see this uniqueness eroded any further.

 

The second thought is more far-reaching, but I think it's a really important one.  I believe it would benefit everyone if the devs took this into consideration. 

 

I'm not claiming either is at the point of Doom^tm yet, but I wouldn't want to see this trend of changes to the game accelerate.

[Abraxus]

I understand that much of the snipe changes were under development at the time of shut down, then some of it was implemented in the SCORE version of CoH, and this last change finished the process.  It gave the ATs that use ranged attacks one more to add to their arsenal, which I personally like.  But, we all know that any change will be viewed simultaneously as both savior, and bane, depending on one's personal use of things effected by said change.  No change is going to please everyone across the board.  Never in the history of gaming has that ever been true, so while I certainly understand that folks will have their problems with things, and expressing their displeasure will hopefully have the effect of giving the Devs perspective that they might have been unaware of; things will continue to change.  Our best way forward, if we still love the game, and wish to continue to play, is to adapt, and find creative ways to integrate change into our play styles.  I certainly don't think that anything that's been implemented should be a game-breaker for anyone.  At least I hope not.

 

If you stop to think about it, dealing with changes, both popular, and not, back in the days of live was something we did every few months for years.  So, in that regard, it's very similar to the days we remember fondly, unpleasant/unwelcome changes included.  So, I'm partying like it's the 00's all over again in CoH!  That I find quite nostalgic, and comforting in a weird way.

[carroto]

3 hours ago, Abraxus said:

I certainly don't think that anything that's been implemented should be a game-breaker for anyone.  At least I hope not.

I agree for the most part with what you've said.  Although I strongly disagree with the way the snipe changes were implemented, I mostly favor the other changes that have been made.

 

My concern is more the overall trend I'm seeing.  Although the new devs seem to be hewing to the old damage formulas, and also respecting the cottage rule (although pushing hard against it at times), they are more free with sweeping changes than anything I remember.  So far I see this as positive on balance.  My concern, and I suspect others', is for the future.  If we're seeing such large changes being made so freely now, what's going to come later?

 

The shutdown of the live game left an indelible impression on all of us.  Of course there is concern about having the game taken away again.  But that doesn't have to come as the sudden throwing of a switch.  It can also be more insidious, as a slow changing of the game out from under us until it's no longer the thing we love.  So I think some of the responses we're seeing are out of this concern.

 

On live there was at times a frustrating resistance on the devs' part to make changes that seemed to be obviously needed.  They were very cautious (usually) in a lot of ways.  I think they applied the spirit of the cottage rule very broadly.  The advantage of this is that they didn't inadvertently break people's favorite characters more often than absolutely necessary.  I know some will disagree with this because of course there were times where they did exactly that and it seemed gratuitous.  I believe that for the most part what I said is true though.  One advantage of this is that it helps to build trust.

 

Looking at the process some of these changes went through, what I saw was devs who are coming from a specific, limited viewpoint about how the game is played, and making changes based on that.  There were many times where someone chimed in and say "Hey what about me and the way I play?  This breaks that.", and they would then address it.  But what about the people who did not provide feedback, who are blindsided by these changes and how they affect the way their characters play?  Too bad for them.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the live devs' overly cautious approach had the benefit of making it less likely that they would accidentally piss a bunch of people off.  The new freeballing approach I'm seeing here seems to mean that it's only a matter of time before you're the one who gets your favorite toy broken.

[Abraxus]

I guess I look at it in the context of the Enhancement Diversification changes.  We managed to survive a titanic change like that, so in context this one ain't so bad. 

 

As for the future, we are always attempting to foresee what's to come based on what we see today.  But, I acknowledge that I don't have all the information necessary to form an intelligent opinion on where things could go in the future.  There are things that the Devs know, which we don't, for the things coming down the road, and their vision for the long haul.  I'd guess that a lot of that is tied up in the outcome of the deal with NCSoft, as it will have a ground-level up effect on everything to do with this server, and the game in general. 

 

But, they have earned a level of trust from me, based on what I've seen and heard so far.  That trust extends to their judgement with regards to all things game related into an, as yet, unknown future.  They know more, and will always know more than I do, and while I can like, or dislike what they do with regards to specific changes, or shifts in direction; I will always look at it in the context of someone evaluating the tip of an iceberg, knowing there is a whole lot more to it than what I can see.

And, lets face it.  Most of the dissatisfaction comes from veteran players, who knew what things were like before ED, and before the snip changes.  The majority of the future of this game, if the deal succeeds, will be players who haven't yet even discovered this version of the game, let alone the sequels that could be spawned down the line if everything goes well.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Abraxus

[kenlon]

There's a bunch of changes that were made in i25 that were clearly there because of the tiny population of SCORE and (arguably) hurt the game now that there's more people playing it again.

 

But you're literally complaining about the devs making it so that a category of powers that is shared across multiple archetypes is more usable generally without having specific build knowledge, without taking anything away from those who do have that knowledge.

 

Think about that. This is pure "Well, back in myyyyyyyy~~ day" -ism going on here.

[KvG]

I had concerns about the recent changes to snipe.  I've playtested this enough to say that while different, I'm fine/happy with the modifications.  Thanks as always, Leo and Dev team. 

[Nightrise2000]

Found a new bug? Maybe? after this patch.  Bathtub Water is now a solid item, you can walk across them now.  I've tried it in multiple bases now, and before this patch it was treated as water, or at least not solid.  It makes soaking rather difficult, see the screenie.

 

[carroto]

18 hours ago, kenlon said:

But you're literally complaining about the devs making it so that a category of powers that is shared across multiple archetypes is more usable generally without having specific build knowledge, without taking anything away from those who do have that knowledge.

This is the same sort of thing I was talking about.  I'm not sure how you're defining "more generally usable", but whether or not the changes are an improvement are going to be dependent on the individual player.  Coming from a narrow viewpoint about how the game is/should be played, it's easy to say no one is losing anything here, although you have no idea.

[kenlon]

14 hours ago, carroto said:

This is the same sort of thing I was talking about.  I'm not sure how you're defining "more generally usable", but whether or not the changes are an improvement are going to be dependent on the individual player.  Coming from a narrow viewpoint about how the game is/should be played, it's easy to say no one is losing anything here, although you have no idea.

Players with +22% to-hit will have the exact same behavior they had before the patch. Nothing changes for them.

Nothing. Changes. Therefore, no one can be losing anything.

 

Players who don't happen to have known that +22% to-hit is what gets you fast snipe. or who don't bother to math out builds, gain an attack that can be added into their in-combat attack chains, one that couldn't be used before. Or, they can continue to not use snipes in combat, in which case nothing changes for them.

 

How, on God's green and fuzzy Earth, can anyone be losing anything from this, other than the ability to feel special because they get to use fast snipes and other people don't?

[PaxArcana]

5 hours ago, kenlon said:

the ability to feel special because they get to use fast snipes and other people don't?

Nail, meet Hammer ...

[Cinnder]

The argument that there can be no loss applies only if people play one character only and compare to the single character someone else is playing.  If you play multiple characters the most obvious loss is variety, because all the sets will play more similarly now, which is the point I was making above.

[Jimmy]

I’m not sure that’s true though. All snipes behaved the same way before, and all snipes behave the same way now.

 

The changes actually allowed more build variety as you aren’t forced into taking Tactics and slotting Kismet to get fast snipes, and you can actually use Build Up + Aim to make your slow snipe hit like a truck out of combat.

[PaxArcana]

40 minutes ago, Cinnder said:

the most obvious loss is variety,

The opposite is true, really.

 

Blast (etc) sets are not generally defined by their Snipe, and whether it is fast or not.  They are defined by their visuals, their damage type, and a series of quirks within the set.

 

No longer having to take X set - or Y power and Z slotting - to get those fast snipes, means people can and will experiment with other powersets entirely.  You will see more, not less, diversity as a result.

[justicebeliever]

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

I’m not sure that’s true though. All snipes behaved the same way before, and all snipes behave the same way now.

 

The changes actually allowed more build variety as you aren’t forced into taking Tactics and slotting Kismet to get fast snipes, and you can actually use Build Up + Aim to make your slow snipe hit like a truck out of combat.

This....end of story...it's different, not less unique...

[Roughtrade]

On 8/28/2019 at 11:00 AM, HelenCarnate said:

Team teleport or assemble the team? The powers work very differently. 

Team Teleport.  

The names of the powers are spelled very differently.

 

It also is still not working.  Tried it in League.  Tried it out of League.  Tried it with big teams, tried it with little teams.  It is not giving anyone prompts.  People who have the prompt turned off are not being teleported.  Sometimes it brings five people, sometimes it brings one, sometimes it brings none.  It wasn't working the day of the patch, it wasn't working last night.  Have not tried it today.  

 

Unless everyone on every team I tried this with lied to me about not having prompt on and was declining to teleport, there is something wrong with team teleport.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Roughtrade

[Number Six]

Team Teleport has never prompted. Either they get teleported immediately, or if they have disabled group travel powers via Null the Gull, nothing happens.

[HelenCarnate]

3 hours ago, Roughtrade said:

Team Teleport.  

The names of the powers are spelled very differently.

 

It also is still not working.  Tried it in League.  Tried it out of League.  Tried it with big teams, tried it with little teams.  It is not giving anyone prompts.  People who have the prompt turned off are not being teleported.  Sometimes it brings five people, sometimes it brings one, sometimes it brings none.  It wasn't working the day of the patch, it wasn't working last night.  Have not tried it today.  

 

Unless everyone on every team I tried this with lied to me about not having prompt on and was declining to teleport, there is something wrong with team teleport.

Team Teleport  is only to TP members close to you to a target location.  It works just like normal TP except it drags everyone around you as well. WAI.  Either people were not close enough (30' radius) or they have turned off group travel as Number Six pointed out.

[Cinnder]

15 hours ago, Jimmy said:

I’m not sure that’s true though. All snipes behaved the same way before, and all snipes behave the same way now.

 

Yes, but the snipe powers themselves have lost some of their uniqueness,  They used to be an interesting specialised power, but now they're just another attack in the middle of a chain. 

 

Also:

 

On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 7:32 PM, Captain Powerhouse said:

Instasnipe mechanics were introduced because many blast sets lack a third decent single target attack, or their attacks dont have enough cooldown to sustain a single target attack chain without incorporating snipes into the attacks.

 

Which means there is less variety amongst blast sets now.

 

[Captain Powerhouse]

That variety was lost when everyone started building for instant snipe.

 

Slow snipe was something only used outside of combat, as an opener. My change was done with the intention of preserving and amplifying that, by making the out of combat version deal more damage.