Which villain groups are fun to fight, which are boring to fight, which are annoying to fight - and why?

[DougGraves]

I play electric so I should not complain when someone steals my END, but fighting Freakshow is just annoying.  I am not sure who among them is stealing my END but it is happening.

 

Whereas Arachnos is interesting to me because you have mu stealing END and blood widows blinding you - but I can tell who they are and prioritize them.  It is not something that just happens to me, it is a tactical part of the fight.

 

On the other hand, low level villains I just hold the lieutenant and then beat up the minions.  Other than the outcasts, the villains do not seem to have any tactical differences between them worth noting.

 

My favorite enemies to fight are probably Banished Pantheon.  The shamans make for interesting fights and the totems just look so cool.

[Nefertari]

For Freaks, its either Juicers, Stunners or  Super Stunners.  Super Stunners drain a lot.

 

Annoying - Malta - Sappers and Gunslingers

Annoying - CoT - Ruin Mages

Annoying - Crey - Paragon Protectors with MoG

Annoying - Carnies - endurance drain on death (if you're in melee range) and Master Illusionist constant Phasing

[jubakumbi]

The more effective the enemy is at defeating me, the more fun I have.

IMO, the only challenge in the game is from things like Sappers and Carnies.

Generally the enemies have no real AI, so unless the break out the powers I have to worry about, there is little challenge IME.

 

I always find fighting Council and the like fun, just because I never feel bad about arresting Nazis and the like, even though they are basically pushovers.

 

IME, the groups most people try to avoid are the ones I find the most fun.

[Nemeroff]

Freakshow!  Hard but not impossible, entertaining too.  Like when the team enters the mish, someone says, "Who are those clowns?!?"

[Broken_Prey]

1 hour ago, Nefertari said:

For Freaks, its either Juicers, Stunners or  Super Stunners.  Super Stunners drain a lot.

 

Annoying - Malta - Sappers and Gunslingers

Annoying - CoT - Ruin Mages

Annoying - Crey - Paragon Protectors with MoG

Annoying - Carnies - endurance drain on death (if you're in melee range) and Master Illusionist constant Phasing

Don't forget about Fake Nemesis and their stupid bubble. 

[Xeres]

Fun: Freakshow.  Malta, and Skyraiders.  I like needing an order to attack.  So for freaks it's the Super Stunners, Malta - Sappers, and Skyraiders - engineers.

 

Annoying: COT until I get my accuracy high enough.  Missing is annoying.

 

I don't find anything overly boring.  Maybe Outcasts and Trolls.  Even those aren't terrible though.

[RikOz]

CoT: I simply despise the way so many CoT maps are jam-packed with those ghosts/daemons/whatevers, so that it's not unusual to find myself with 3-6 ToHit Debuffs stacked on me. Being completely unable to do anything is just not fun. I know that I can counteract this somewhat with yellow insps, but in the level ranges where this behavior is most common (and completely overdone, IMO), I've only got 8-10 insp slots and even if I entered the map fully loaded with yellows, I'd be out of them before I'm halfway through some of those maps.

 

Hellions and Skulls (and Lost, to a certain extent): Over-reliance on knockback at levels where nobody has KB protection yet. Constantly getting knocked back/down just isn't fun. I have noticed that some of these shotgun-wielding minions seem to have only one attack: Slug or whichever gun attack has the KB. While fighting a group, I'll notice that some of the minions do absolutely nothing to fight back except stand there waiting for that KB attack to come off cooldown. Then, with staggered attacks, I get chain-KB'd.

 

The Lost: The big guys with the mental attacks. I just love being slept, then held, then stunned, then slept again, before I've even landed a punch.

 

Sky Raiders: Those Engineers and their forcefield generators. This is generally easy to overcome, once you learn to identify the Engineer in the group and hit him first. But when a map manages to spawn three of them in close enough proximity (usually a case of one on ground-level and a couple up on a catwalk), I can end up with multiple, overlapping FFs, and then it's CoT ghosts all over again, but worse. Often, the only option at that point is to reset the mission and hope the mobs spawn differently.

 

Carnies: Another group where I've learned how to counteract the biggest annoyance, but if the counteraction doesn't work the first time, it's major annoyance time. I currently only have one toon high enough to be dealing with Carnies, and she's a blaster, so I've figured out that I can one-shot even an "orange-level" Grand Illusionist by hitting both Aim and Buildup, then Snipe. But if that doesn't insta-kill the GI, and she manages to cast her Phantasms ... *groan*. The actual annoyance here is that those illusions persist for so damned long after I've defeated the Illusionist, and they're largely immune to damage, and don't do much damage themselves. They end up being nothing but a super-irritating forced waiting game, because whatever objective/hostage the GI was guarding can't be freed until those damned things finally despawn on their own. I honestly feel like it's either a major design flaw, or a bug that allows those illusions to persist after the caster is defeated.

 

Malta: Look for Sappers the same way I look for Sky Raider Engineers. I actually don't have that much trouble with them, but at those levels I have all 25 insp slots, I'm strong enough to not need to rely on Luck insps so much, and I can carry some Endurance insps for the sappers and some Break Frees for the Gunslingers.

Edited November 4, 2019 by RikOz

[Ibarra]

While I don't have a huge amount with some, on some characters, Carnies tend to suck badly with their constant phasing and every minion, lieutenant and boss draining endurance on death. Sappers are annoying on some occasions, and Freakshow and their Super Stunners tend to be the most annoying.

[Yomo Kimyata]

Anytime you get five or more Tsoo Sorcerers together, that's a CA-RAZY time!

[Heraclea]

When were the Super Stunners added to the Freakshow?  I don't remember them. 

 

I can deal with mobs that pose particular problems like Sappers, Surgeons, Super Stunners, Paragon Protectors, and the like.  Most of them just suggest strategies, and if you're teamed the biggest problem is getting enough in between time to con for them.  I generally have targeting macros for them set up and do the obvious things: ranged DPS for the Stunners, take the Surgeon and Sapper out first, hard control and burst damage for the Protectors. 

 

Annoying mobs like Carnies, Seers, late-game Tsoo, and whatever those things in Night Ward are, overpowered because every last one of them gets too much stacking debuff.  If your job is to take the alpha and attract the aggro, you may as well just get up and make a sandwich while the rest of the team takes care of them.  Mobs just shouldn't have Fear or Confuse, and those Succubi need to stay on redside where they belong.  I don't know what interesting stories might be in Night Ward, because I won't set foot there.

 

But the mobs I actively dislike are the ones that are overused.  Council in the 20-30 range get 3 1/4 task forces (Citadel, Moonfire, Hess, 1//4 of Penny Yin).  Of course, fighting Nazis is always a mainstay, but still.  But even those don't get nearly as old as Arachnos and Longbow, IDF, Neuron Clockwork, and the rest of the rather monotonous late-added content.  There probably isn't a single task that's less fun in the game than the Mother of Mercy trial.  Even the people who do multiple runs of incarnate trials avoid that one, with good reason. 

[Xeres]

One of the absolute most satisfying things in the game for me is when you see that Sorcerer turn on Hurricane or Cyclone (or whatever that power is called) or the COT Ghost turn on the dark aura and they start that animation and the power turns on... briefly because your first attack was a stun and the aura just drop off.

[DougGraves]

7 minutes ago, Xeres said:

One of the absolute most satisfying things in the game for me is when you see that Sorcerer turn on Hurricane or Cyclone (or whatever that power is called) or the COT Ghost turn on the dark aura and they start that animation and the power turns on... briefly because your first attack was a stun and the aura just drop off.

try confusing them and having the sorcerer heal you

[Erydanus]

I have feelings about many groups but I'll just hit a few top ones.

 

I really like fighting the Tsoo because they have so many thematic varieties. They're kind of a pain with the ghostly ancestor spirit and the hurricane happy teleporting Tsorcerer, but I'm used to them. They also spawn in bigger groups, and the bosses are really cool generally. That mission arc in Steel Canyon where they attack a museum and you have to duel some of their leaders and the newest powersets show up on unique bosses there? Love it.

 

Carnies are just wild. I feel like you just have to give it up for them even if they are some of the creepiest foes you will ever meet. The truth about Strongmen … pretty disturbing if you read the mission clues. Like the Tsoo they're interesting but also annoying (mostly the end drain), but never boring. 

 

For boring it's basically any group that doesn't have a lot of flavor: Luddites, Gold Brickers, Outcasts, Trolls, Sky Raiders (plus they get annoying fast if you don't lock down the Engineers). 

 

Circle of Thorns are really annoying to me. It's mostly their maps, which are hellish, combined with their ghostliness (plus their dark resistance is annoying). But mostly it's the maps.

 

[Doc_Scorpion]

1 hour ago, Heraclea said:

When were the Super Stunners added to the Freakshow?  I don't remember them

They were certainly on Live...  I loathed them then too.

[RikOz]

Oh, I forgot the Whispered Hand (I think that's what they're called). I don't even bother with my fire/fire blaster's Hot Feet power because the Mercenary mobs, which seem to be the overwhelming majority of mobs in these WH missions, have some ability that I can't even see that keeps turning it off. I decided it was a waste of time to keep turning it back on when that very next mob is just gonna shut it off again.

[Abraxus]

I don't begrudge the enemy for employing the powers they were bestowed with.  If I get annoyed at what they do with them against me, it's only because I didn't go into it with the right strategy.  I don't want to be invincible.  That would be boring.  If all it takes is a Sapper, or a Super Stunner to blow a hole in my effectiveness every time I'm against them, then I'm not built right, or I just walked in guns blazing, and got what I deserved. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by Abraxus

[Techwright]

Fun:  Freaks, but...the eventual inclusion of the Super Sappers proved both boring and annoying.  Why? Previously,  Freak rez was something of a "whack-a-mole": one never knew which Freaks, if any, would rez, or perhaps use their extra life to boost their flagging health instead, leading to a bit of fun anticipating them.   With the arrival of the Super Sappers, you are guaranteed strong sapping, and a rez from the character, so long as even one of the players is in his wide AOE range.  And you're also guaranteed he'll do significant drain on one of you when rezzing.  The result takes all the randomness out of the character, and that leads me, anyway, to feelings of boredom and annoyance.

 

Fun: Fifth Column and Council.  I don't see enough of the Fifth Column but I love fighting them.  The Council is not as formidable as I remember them from 10 years back, but it's still fun because you never know which will transform to a warwolf.  Warwolves totally change my fighting strategies due to their speed coupled with immunity to many holds and debuffs.  That is certainly not boring.

 

Nearly fun:  Malta, but the sappers hit so hard it's really hard to truly have fun with them.

Nearly fun: Nemesis, but for the overwhelming, constant barrage of knockback/damage.  A bit less of that, and I'd really enjoy them.

 

Boring:  Skulls & Hellions.  I frequently get these two confused on the street because they feel so much alike, despite having different power sets and iconic colors.  At least the Outcasts have four different power sets.  Warriors I'd consider boring except that they have such powerful strikes at times, that I have to stay on my toes more.

 

Annoying:  Crey, specifically Protectors.  That 1-minute "nothing-can-touch-me" holdout at the end of their health doesn't feel organic to the game.  It feels like a major cheat.

             

BEYOND Annoying:  Circle of Thorns.  Reason:  When this game first started, CoT were in a very specific level range, and were limited to certain zones, but it wasn't long before they started showing up in more and more territories and range levels, often pushing out the balance of gangs in a zone as was established at the game's start.  Now, it might be possible to fight them in most every level (at least it seems that way).  So I'm beyond annoyed because I see them as dominating the game.  The irony is that I hear more groaning about trips into Orenbega than any other instance other than perhaps the blue caves, and the CoT are often there as well.  If I could, I would reduce them back towards the mid-ranges like they used to be, or to create new interest, stage a civil war like we got with the Fifth Column/Council, and split the territory.  Oh, I'd also add that CoT represent another problem I have with the game:  that magic-based organizations, locations, and missions are out of proportion with the other four origins, at least for a significant portion of the climb to 50.  It was my understanding when I started playing that first winter, that development would attempt to be as balanced as could be between the five origins.  If I wanted a magic-dominant game, I'd go play WoW or one of its clones.    

 

[oxmox]

31 minutes ago, Techwright said:

 

             

BEYOND Annoying:  Circle of Thorns.  Reason:  When this game first started, CoT were in a very specific level range, and were limited to certain zones, but it wasn't long before they started showing up in more and more territories and range levels, often pushing out the balance of gangs in a zone as was established at the game's start.  Now, it might be possible to fight them in most every level (at least it seems that way).  So I'm beyond annoyed because I see them as dominating the game.  The irony is that I hear more groaning about trips into Orenbega than any other instance other than perhaps the blue caves, and the CoT are often there as well.  If I could, I would reduce them back towards the mid-ranges like they used to be, or to create new interest, stage a civil war like we got with the Fifth Column/Council, and split the territory.

 

I'm like 90% sure the CoT have always spanned the whole game. They were in KR, Perez, steel, faultline?, Talos, DA and FF right from the start and then got included in PI and the shadow shard when those came along. Not sure if they were in any of the intro missions in atlas or GC.

 

I mostly just can't stand enemies with stalling abilities. Phasing carnies, fake nem bubbles, MoG protectors, the council shield dudes. If they were only part of TF/trial finales or other climactic fights that would be okay, but crushing through normal mobs then waiting around for godmode to end is annoying.

 

I've got a particular dislike for Nemesis in bigger groups. They've got long range and all their guns have the exact same explodey sound/visual that gets obnoxious quickly. And the only thing worse than waiting around for a fake nem shield to drop is taking a full minute to get the boss low in the first place because the last standing nem in any group always has half a dozen vengeance stacks on them.

[MetaVileTerror]

Circle of Thorns start at Level 5, and go all the way up.  Have been that way since launch of Live.
5th Column (and Council when the switch over hit) go from 1 to 50, and I think might be the only original Villain Group to do so.

One might argue that Clockwork go from 1 to 50, but the Level 40+ Clockwork weren't added until Issue 1 was released, and there's still the gap between levels 20 and 40.

If you count the Lost and the Rikti as the same group (I don't), then they also go from 5 to 50, like the Circle.
Arachnos and Longbow both go from 1 to 50, but they were both added with City of Villains.

[Black Zot]

Annoying?  CC spam, untouchability, End drain - basically anything that says "you don't get to play right now".

 

If I wanted to put up with my actions just not meaning anything, I'd do double shifts at work thank you very much.

[SaintD]

Vahzilok in the 1-10 range. Disgustingly overpowered. Some idiot was all, "So lets make their attacks do way more damage, and apply a DoT, and be unresistable. Oh, oh! Then give the lieutenants a massive recharge debuff!"

 

If you don't think they're OP as shit, make a Necro Mastermind. At level 6 the zombies are literally just a copy/paste of Vahzilok zombies, and they absolutely obliterate everything you look at at that point in the game.

[Gulbasaur]

17 hours ago, Broken_Prey said:

Don't forget about Fake Nemesis and their stupid bubble. 

Soloing Nemesis, who's basically a Fake Nemesis with a lot more hit points was a complete pain in the bum because his regen is high enough that with the bubble up you almost end up back where you started. I did it eventually, but I'm sure I took down the last quarter of his health bar about nine times.

[quixoteprog]

Has a lot to do with the AT I'm playing. My controller had little to no trouble with anything. He was ill/rad though, so pop out PA and let the bad guys punch air while you kill them. I rarely need an inspiration at all to do anything

 

With the blaster (en/en) almost all bosses at higher level get virtual immunity to KB/KD and so his primary damage mitigation is kind of useless on anything but minions and Lts. I need to pop inspirations now and then. As someone pointed out earlier the Paragon Protectors are a real pain with the untouchable thing. But that can be mitigated with a couple purple pills.

 

Sky Raiders are pretty annoying for the couple melee guys at mid level. The engineers summon those damned shield drones that increase their defense a LOT. The only good thing is that it takes a while for them to summon them and so as long as you can engage the engineer first you are usually OK. But when I have run into spawns with a couple engineers it is usually a lesson in patients.

 

 

 

 

[Marine X]

Sappers are just something that you have to Identify in a crowd and make sure they go Bye Bye right quick. Master Illusionists and Ring Mistresses also need to go first into the abyss when in a mob or become trouble. Paragon Protectors at 1/4 Health letting you punch them till you run out of endurance, priceless. But I would have to say the most annoying for me are the Council Ascendants, they wait until you almost have them then Shields On ( +regeneration, +recovery too ) and they are almost unhittable till they drop the shields, Just like Fake Nemesis. There are a couple missions where there are Herds of them, a very, very long annoying mission, lol.

[Marine X]

Fun to Fight: Devouring Earth, Freakshow, Clockwork, CoT, Anything in Croatoa.

 

Boring: Council, Warriors, Hellions, Skulls.