Focused Feedback: Tank Updates for December 6, 2019

[Captain Powerhouse]

The following is a list of patch changes since the last Pineapple patch. For a full list of the consolidated changes (difference between production and test) see the main patch thread.

 

Tank & Brute Updates

Brute Fury Generation

• Hitting AVs no longer gives bonus Fury, but Fury generation for attacking has been increased in a variety of ways.
• Brute Fury generation now takes into account the cast time of the attack for successful hits.
  • Any attack slower than brawl will now generate bonus Fury if it lands a hit.
• Brutes now get bonus fury generation in teams, the larger the team, the larger the bonus.
• Fury now takes 10 seconds without attacking to start its accelerated decay, instead of 5 seconds.
• The goal of these changes is to improve Fury generation in teams when the Brute is not the only brute, or is in the company of another tanking AT.
• To help debug these changes, the combat spam now shows +Fury and -Fury numbers.
  • Note that this is a temporary change and will be removed regardless if these changes remain or get rolled back.

 

Tankers

• Taunt (The Power) target cap is back to 5 (same as currently on production)
• +Radius buff for sphere attacks is now +50%
• Tanker self +damage modifier lowered from 1.00 to 0.75 (they still should do more damage than before due to higher base damage modifiers.)
• Powers that are unaffected by Arc or Radius should now note this on the power description.

 

Taunt Auras

• The following Taunt Auras are now all scale 1 Taunt (approximately 13.6s at level 50): 
  • Invincibility, Against All Odds, Rise to the Challenge (Brute and Tank only).
• Brute and Tanker Ice Armor powers no longer have built-in Taunt, they are now instead covered by the inherent global proc.

 

Misc

• Tanker > Kinetic Melee > Quick Strike: Should now actually be back at its rightful place.
• Brute > Martial Arts > Taunt / Crane Kick: Fixed incorrect power order.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Captain Powerhouse

[Bopper]

Huh, no replies on this yet? Might be the longest the tanker updates have gone without a comment.

[Myrmidon]

It was locked until recently.

 

Can’t say I blame them.🤣

[Bossk_Hogg]

For those interested, it looks like powers that are unaffected by the Arc/Range change are as follows

 

Electric Melee - Lightning Clap (radius)

Spines - Spine Burst

Spines - Throw Spines

Staff Fighting - Serpent's Reach

Titan Weapons - Titan Sweep

Titan Weapons - Whirling Smash

Titan Weapons - Arc of Destruction

 

Why was Burn not impacted by the radius/target changes? Given how much Fire gives up in survivability vs the other sets, it would at least be nice to see it get some kind of love in either radius or number of targets.

[MrAxe]

Unless I'm misreading/misunderstanding Psionic Melee seems only to have the target increases, not the range. Should it not be getting the a bigger cone and AoE? This along with loosing the AoE Insight Strike leaves the set feeling a bit underwhelming for a Tank patch.

Edited December 6, 2019 by MrAxe

[macskull]

23 minutes ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

Why was Burn not impacted by the radius/target changes? Given how much Fire gives up in survivability vs the other sets, it would at least be nice to see it get some kind of love in either radius or number of targets.

FWIW there's likely a nerf to Burn coming in the future so I wouldn't hold my breath on this one.

[Brutal Justice]

I didn’t see anything about the scales for leadership and the like.  Are we still getting increases on these?

[csr]

1 hour ago, Mr.Sinister said:

I didn’t see anything about the scales for leadership and the like.  Are we still getting increases on these?

They appear to still be in there based on detailed info.

Edited December 7, 2019 by csr
Typo

[Caulderone]

1 hour ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

For those interested, it looks like powers that are unaffected by the Arc/Range change are as follows

 

Electric Melee - Lightning Clap (radius)

Spines - Spine Burst

Spines - Throw Spines

Staff Fighting - Serpent's Reach

Titan Weapons - Titan Sweep

Titan Weapons - Whirling Smash

Titan Weapons - Arc of Destruction

 

Why was Burn not impacted by the radius/target changes? Given how much Fire gives up in survivability vs the other sets, it would at least be nice to see it get some kind of love in either radius or number of targets.

 

Claws Shockwave is likely still exempted from the bonus, too.

[Kanil]

1 hour ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

For those interested, it looks like powers that are unaffected by the Arc/Range change are as follows

 

Electric Melee - Lightning Clap (radius)

Spines - Spine Burst

Spines - Throw Spines

Staff Fighting - Serpent's Reach

Titan Weapons - Titan Sweep

Titan Weapons - Whirling Smash

Titan Weapons - Arc of Destruction

 

Why was Burn not impacted by the radius/target changes? Given how much Fire gives up in survivability vs the other sets, it would at least be nice to see it get some kind of love in either radius or number of targets.

 

i had to do an obligatory footstomp check, it's affected with the nerfed radius of 10ft so it's basically just back to what the regular radius is right now

[Captain Powerhouse]

1 hour ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

Why was Burn not impacted by the radius/target changes?

 

Target cap changes are exclusive to melee sets.

Burn's up-front AoE should not ignore radius buffs.

Burn patches should ignore radius buffs.

Eviscerate and Shockwave also ignore Arc buffs.

Electric Melee Lightning Clap has no radius, being a sphere, the tagging on that power is in error and should be fixed for the next patch.

[csr]

On 12/3/2019 at 11:54 AM, Captain Powerhouse said:

Tank & Brute Updates

Taunt Auras

• Brute and Tanker Ice Armor powers no longer have built-in Taunt, they are now instead covered by the inherent global proc.

Is this now true of ALL Taunt auras?  I don't see detailed info about Taunt in any of them; all used to list their Taunt magnitude, now none do.

 

Also, how is it decided which powers take Taunt enhancements and which don't?  For example... Dark Armor's Death Shroud and Dark Regeneration take Taunt enhancements, while Cloak of Fear and Oppressive Gloom do not.  (All four of which are listed as having +400% Taunt on Live HC.)   The only foe-affecting powers I saw that don't take Taunt enhancements are:  Cloak of Fear, Oppressive Gloom and Burn.

 

This inconsistency is contrasted with the consistent use of Taunt sets.  Where no foe-affecting toggles take Taunt sets, while most clicks (all but Burn) do.

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by csr
Clarity

[Bossk_Hogg]

46 minutes ago, Caulderone said:

 

Claws Shockwave is likely still exempted from the bonus, too.

It is, I had originally written it in, but apparently deleted it in error.

[Captain Powerhouse]

8 minutes ago, csr said:

Is this now true of ALL Taunt auras?  I don't see detailed info about Taunt in any of them; all used to list their Taunt magnitude, now none do.

 

Only taunt auras that right now have built-in taunt are the ones that are auto-hit, debuff tohit, and give the caster a scaling buff. These are also the only ones that taunt for scrappers (at a lower magnitude that does not affect Bosses.)

 

9 minutes ago, csr said:

Also, how is it decided which powers take Taunt enhancements and which don't? 

 

Basically any foe-facing power a tanker or brute have access to and is not shared with other ATs gets taunt enhancements. The fact that Oppressive Gloom or Cloak of Fear never did but did have taunt seems like a bug, will add taunt enhancements to them in the next patch (note that Taunt Sets are not allowed in toggles, though.) Burn is likely a legacy issue since it didnt use to directly affect foes in the past.

[summers]

On 12/4/2019 at 5:54 AM, Captain Powerhouse said:

• The following Taunt Auras are now all scale 1 Taunt (approximately 13.6s at level 50): 
  • Invincibility, Against All Odds, Rise to the Challenge (Brute and Tank only).

 

Thank you, Willpower's weak taunt was just infuriating!

[Myrmidon]

Avalanche Proc In Irradiated Ground:

 

Live: does not proc.

Test: Procs like a bad MoFo.

 

Please let that be intentional.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Myrmidon

[honoraryorange]

I'm looking for some clarity on the Tanker AOE changes.

 

The patch says:

Quote

Tanker now gets an inherent buff to the radius of AoE attacks and arc of cones.

• +50% for sphere attacks.
• +100% for cones

Cone powers have Range and Arc (The radius of which equals Range). And are by definition also an AOE attack.

 

So are cones supposed to be seeing just the arc increase, or also the radius increase? There are a number of cones that need help one way or the other. There's a number of fairly wide cones (high arc) that are short range (Ripper - 90 degree/7 range). And some cones that are both short range and tiny arc (Shadow maul - 45 degree/7 range). What should the numbers of those be now? Should Shadow Maul be 90 arc/14 radius on Pineapple or 90/7?

 

Will we ever be able to see this tooltip show up properly on Pineapple so we can do full powers?

 

[Haijinx]

Interesting Brute Fury changes.

 

[Caulderone]

33 minutes ago, honoraryorange said:

I'm looking for some clarity on the Tanker AOE changes.

 

The patch says:

Cone powers have Range and Arc (The radius of which equals Range). And are by definition also an AOE attack.

 

So are cones supposed to be seeing just the arc increase, or also the radius increase?

 

This was briefly discussed in one of the prior feedback threads.  Cones only get the arc increase.

 

[csr]

45 minutes ago, honoraryorange said:

I'm looking for some clarity on the Tanker AOE changes.

 

The patch says:

Cone powers have Range and Arc (The radius of which equals Range). And are by definition also an AOE attack.

 

So are cones supposed to be seeing just the arc increase, or also the radius increase? There are a number of cones that need help one way or the other. There's a number of fairly wide cones (high arc) that are short range (Ripper - 90 degree/7 range). And some cones that are both short range and tiny arc (Shadow maul - 45 degree/7 range). What should the numbers of those be now? Should Shadow Maul be 90 arc/14 radius on Pineapple or 90/7?

 

Will we ever be able to see this tooltip show up properly on Pineapple so we can do full powers?

 

The arc (cones) and radius (PBAoEs only) increases are part of the Tanker inherent, not actual changes to the powers themselves (such as the target cap increases are).  Some of the powers themselves have been changed (reduced arc and radius) so that the inherent will affect them giving a net buff.  While others have been flagged to ignore the inherent buffs to tone down sets such as Titan Weapons, Claws and Spines that would over-perform with the buffs.  As a result, the detailed info on the power doesn't tell the whole story.

Edited December 7, 2019 by csr

[honoraryorange]

15 minutes ago, csr said:

The arc (cones) and radius (PBAoEs only) increases are part of the Tanker inherent, not actual changes to the powers themselves (such as the target cap increases are).  Some of the powers themselves have been changed (reduced arc and radius) so that the inherent will affect them giving a net buff.  While others have been flagged to ignore the inherent buffs to tone down sets such as Titan Weapons, Claws and Spines that would over-perform with the buffs.  As a result, the detailed info on the power doesn't tell the whole story.

Right - so how is a player supposed to know what is and isn't affected, and by how much? If this change is going to go through it has to be visible in game somehow. There has to be some way for any random player to come into the game and know what their powers do, and which of their powers this new inherent affects. 

[csr]

43 minutes ago, honoraryorange said:

Right - so how is a player supposed to know what is and isn't affected, and by how much? If this change is going to go through it has to be visible in game somehow. There has to be some way for any random player to come into the game and know what their powers do, and which of their powers this new inherent affects. 

Those powers not affected by the inherent arc and radius buff are already noted in their descriptions.  The detailed info for Gauntlet in the power status tray also includes the buffs under Detailed Info.  So the information is there, it's just that the latter doesn't appear until you enter the game and know where to look.  It would be nice if the information was more in-your-face and available during character creation.  But then other ATs don't have that inherent info available either.  A good inherent description on the power set/power choice screen at creation would be nice.

[ivanhedgehog]

so how much of a nerf compared to what was on test? By the time they finish debuffung the buff, will they have actually accomplished anything or will it just be an exercise in futility?

[Myrmidon]

3 hours ago, summers said:

 

Thank you, Willpower's weak taunt was just infuriating!

Looks like we get cruise control.😁

[Haijinx]

1 minute ago, ivanhedgehog said:

so how much of a nerf compared to what was on test? By the time they finish debuffung the buff, will they have actually accomplished anything or will it just be an exercise in futility?

For Tankers the part about "Tanker self +damage modifier lowered from 1.00 to 0.75 (they still should do more damage than before due to higher base damage modifiers.)" should reduce the slanted bonus Tankers would have gotten from Rage, or Shield AAO, or Bio Offensive VS. Brutes.  Most sets will be barely effected.  

 

 The "+Radius buff for sphere attacks is now +50%" is slightly less I believe.   

 

=========

 

For Brutes the Fury bonus could basically mean all the Brute doom sayers should stop saying doom so much.  Since being able to keep Fury up easier should seriously make playing most Brutes more effective in normal (non-farm) play.   

 

That was why I liked my claws brute, the quick attacks made Fury easier to keep up.  Now with weighted attacks this perhaps will be how they all play.