Why so many chaotic Controllers?

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

no one is not a fifth wheel

 

This. This is how I've seen the game since coming back. It just doesn't matter what AT I'm playing any more, they can afk and the team will be just fine because we're all OPAF now.

[Clave Dark 5]

27 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

This. This is how I've seen the game since coming back. It just doesn't matter what AT I'm playing any more, they can afk and the team will be just fine because we're all OPAF now.

I don't think it even takes "the usual OPAF" team to do that though.

[honoroit]

[VV]

On 1/16/2020 at 1:51 PM, Sailboat said:

I do have to say, I was playing my Archery/Tac Arrow/Elactrical Mastery Blaster, who has one AoE hold and two single-target holds, on a team with FOUR controllers in their 30s, and not one thing we fought got held unless I used a hold on it.  We ran five or six missions and not one of them used a hold of any sort, despite troublesome lieutenants of all kinds. Don't they recognize the awesome, game-winning power holds constitute?

Were they all Fire/Kin farmer wannabes?

[VV]

On 1/22/2020 at 12:33 AM, Teikiatsu said:

I'm going to reply from the perspective of my Controllers and Tankers 🙂

 

Controller - When I'm in a high-level team, I feel like a fifth wheel at times.  By the moment my powers resolve, half the mob is already gone.  The Brutes and Blasters are mopping things up.  At best I'm debuffing a Boss, and even then the recharge on that debuff won't be back until after the next two mobs.  Sure I can try to wait for the mob to cluster, but after that happens all the AoE unloads and there is not much left to hold/immob.

 

Tanker - When I'm in a high-level team, I feel like I'm not needed after the alpha strike.  There is no way I can pour out the DPS like a Brute, Blaster, or even a Sentinel.  At best I can keep up the aggro on me, wait for the Troller or Dom to lock down the mob, then move on once the bad guys look like they are under control.  At least I can try to cluster up the next group for easy group immobs and/or AoEs from the rest of the team.

So, the main advice I would give is quit playing your Controllers and Tankers like Blasters and Scrappers. You're not DPS, so don't worry about it. Focus on your control abilities. 

 

Also, if your team is melting through stuff so fast that you can barely get an attack off, it is time to increase the difficulty level. Or just split off from the group and start clearing other halls to speed things up. Run to the end and slap the boss. Plenty of ways to speed things up when difficulty is set too low. But, for high level teams, I pretty much only run it at +4/x8

Edited January 23, 2020 by VV

[Sailboat]

39 minutes ago, VV said:

Were they all Fire/Kin farmer wannabes?

Weirdly, no.  I forget exactly what sets they were playing, but at the time it struck me they were fairly diverse.

[VV]

I also wonder which came first, the chicken (chaos) or the egg (controller). I am personally a pretty chaotic person, I love the mayhem of massive fights. But, I hate losing. A controller/dominator gives me the ability to thrive in chaos while minimizing the risk to my team. 

 

So, is it that playing a controller makes you turn chaotic, or is it because chaotic people choose controllers for their versatility?

Edited January 25, 2020 by VV

[Doc Ranger]

Now I am just the opposite. I love things in order and under control. 
 

So turning chaos into order through control is why I play controllers 🙂

[Tuner]

 

I have seen this a lot too:
**
Controller - When I'm in a high-level team, I feel like a fifth wheel at times.  By the moment my powers resolve, half the mob is already gone.  The Brutes and Blasters are mopping things up.  At best I'm debuffing a Boss, and even then the recharge on that debuff won't be back until after the next two mobs.  Sure I can try to wait for the mob to cluster, but after that happens all the AoE unloads and there is not much left to hold/immob
**
I play a 50 Plant/storm and a Grav/Storm.  For one thing both of those can dominate the whole field with good recharge, nothing "resists or misses  with tornado, it just happily grinds away and with 2 of them out more so. Add a few thunder storms w/apocalypse and creepers, snow storm freezing rain, it's chaos but effective. I have noticed and I don't know if its me or not; If I play like that and go all out almost always  people will start quitting the  team 1 or 2 usually.   I am not doing anything  that is old school annoying like running around with hurricane on or not slotting -KB in tornado. All I can figure is ppl are thinking why am I here, whats the point so leave. So the other side of the fence if you will.   I agree  with this  thread  things have gotten too easy, to the point things get condensed down and rushed through objective to objective. When I find my self on a team like that I just lay back and toss a FR now and then and let them revel in their blast glory then collect the merits.

Is this game as fun as it used to be, no, it's been cheapened down.  Is it still fun and worth playing , yes..  But it is not what it once was..   

[Doc Ranger]

I will say that with the prevalence of Stormies and Timers out there I will quit a team earlier than usual depending on their power color choices because the effects of those two sets can be really irritating on tight maps. 

 

I was on a team with a storm and time and both had power colors set to white. We were doing oranbega maps and I could not see a damn thing. I gave some excuse a couple of missions in and joined another team. White tornadoes, lightning storms, hurricanes and then the white time effects were giving me a headache.

 

Sometimes people have those floating ball lightning essences that are always in the way. If I can't see the field of battle then it drives me insane.

[Coyote]

4 hours ago, Ice_Warden said:

Sometimes people have those floating ball lightning essences that are always in the way

 

Do NOT diss my stunning disco balls!!!

[Doc Ranger]

1 hour ago, Coyote said:

 

Do NOT diss my stunning disco balls!!!

OMG those things are annoying  🙂

[gurugeorge]

It's as much bad tankers as it is bad controllers.  I've seen VERY few proper tankers on the Homecoming servers so far (anecdotal, I know) - so what's a controller to do if the tanker just "takes the alpha and moves on" as someone said above?

 

It's a shame, because the team synergy was really strong in early CoH.  People had patience, because they knew that with a bit of patience, things went faster.  It was the villain playstyle that was (naturally enough, I suppose! 🙂 ) chaotic.  I remember thinking at the time that villain teams were like giant steamrollers, and that was fun for a change of pace when Villains first came out.  But now that everything's all mixed up, I dunno.  It's still fun to play the old thing, but it really isn't the same.

[Zeraphia]

On 1/1/2020 at 5:31 PM, Solarverse said:

Oh my God I hate this. That is the worst type of Tanking I have ever seen in this game. I myself have said to Tanks who do this, "Not sure why our so called Tank keeps running off and leaving us to clear these mobs that he is leaving behind, sure defeats the purpose of having a Tank..."

 

Tank says, "Kill faster then..."

 

So I said, "Kill faster? That's real golden, because as a Tank you are just doing some massive DPS up there all by yourself, right?"

 

Needless to say, he got a 1 star permanently above his head.

 

I have always though that mixing the villain classes with the hero classes was a very bad idea. And it is things like this that happen all too often that proves it to me.

 

I understand that that is the perception of a tanker's role but why are you totally reliant on that tanker for survival? The tanking job is one of the hardest teaming jobs, expecting so much out of tankers who maybe aren't that adept at it or are new to the game seems rather harsh. It seems like your issue with mobs hurting you has better blame attached to the buffs/debuffs/controls of the controller/defender/corruptor/etc. than it really corresponds to the tanker. 

 

People really expect tankers to be the absolute end all be all damage soakers and do their job correctly 150% of the time even when it's not realistic for them to be in two places at once (sometimes I can't always chase that boss you dragged over into a corner and be in the center of a mob soaking the alphas so the rest of the team doesn't die). If you are a tanker and your group cannot manage to kill a mob in a reasonable timeframe (I'd say approximately 30 seconds to a minute without most dying) then yes, I would skip ahead and try to do the task force because it shows the team is attempting content that is not within their capability.

 

The "role identity" confusion that you're discussing is limiting. Let people play how they wish to play. Obviously, some people are going to do obnoxious things (knockback entire mobs with energy blast, etc.) But if a tank wants to play like a brute and be in the center of mobs and deal damage, let them? If a tanker doesn't feel confident in his build to not try to absorb an alpha and collect debt, let him be? There is definitely more ways to play an AT that go outside the bounds of what it was originally intended/designed for. Not every tank is made to absorb damage, some tanks are basically brutes, and I've found a lot of really good scrappers to out-tank mediocre tankers. 

 

This guy that you're talking about seems like he wasn't doing anything to "grief" the team, perhaps his statement of "kill faster" was a bit rash, but with T9 Nukes and T4 judgements being widely available, why was this an issue? Also, was that really the best way to approach this situation to get what you want? You could've possibly asked nicer... "Hey, our group is having trouble, could you stay back to help us (player x)" and I guarantee 9 times out of 10, they will do what you asked them to do. 

[Doc Ranger]

It’s not that we are reliant on a tank for survival....but it’s cute that you think we all crumple to

the ground when you aren’t around. A team of controllers could melt mobs faster than a team of tankers.

 

But I digress. It’s just bad form to plow through mobs trying to reach the “end” first. You drag half the mobs for a little ways until they lose interest and saunter slowly back to their original location. It just makes it take longer to clear maps.
And some of us actually feel a responsibility to help others. So when you run off into the map and get into trouble we feel like we should follow and help. 

Anyway...yes people can play how they like. But if they want to be reinvited to our mob shredding XP, Influence, thread, merit making machine then they should probably be a team player who works for the team.

Solo however the hell you want. But team for the greater good. 
If you are a team leader tank who likes to protect his team and someone is blowing mobs all over the map making it impossible to do to your job on important missions then it’s unlikely you are applauding him saying “you do you bro!”. You are making a mental note not to invite him back.

 

In the end, like minded players gravitate towards each other. So eventually we find players we respect and play with. And we avoid those we don’t. 
 

I can definitely see why some people might spend 20mins in the LFG tab spamming the chat and not finding any luck. If you have a reputation then it follows you...good or bad.

[Zeraphia]

7 minutes ago, Ice_Warden said:

It’s not that we are reliant on a tank for survival....but it’s cute that you think we all crumple to

the ground when you aren’t around. A team of controllers could melt mobs faster than a team of tankers.

 

But I digress. It’s just bad form to plow through mobs trying to reach the “end” first. You drag half the mobs for a little ways until they lose interest and saunter slowly back to their original location. It just makes it take longer to clear maps.
And some of us actually feel a responsibility to help others. So when you run off into the map and get into trouble we feel like we should follow and help. 

Anyway...yes people can play how they like. But if they want to be reinvited to our mob shredding XP, Influence, thread, merit making machine then they should probably be a team player who works for the team.

Solo however the hell you want. But team for the greater good. 
If you are a team leader tank who likes to protect his team and someone is blowing mobs all over the map making it impossible to do to your job on important missions then it’s unlikely you are applauding him saying “you do you bro!”. You are making a mental note not to invite him back.

 

In the end, like minded players gravitate towards each other. So eventually we find players we respect and play with. And we avoid those we don’t. 
 

I can definitely see why some people might spend 20mins in the LFG tab spamming the chat and not finding any luck. If you have a reputation then it follows you...good or bad.

I don't play a single tank, I have just been on several teams where people who cannot dish out damage or contribute meaningfully complain about the tanker. I shared a friend irl that I play with's perspective and he is usually recognized as a good tanker. In fact, most of the time I play the hefty damage dealers (blapper, scrapper, brute, corruptor.)

 

Also, I'm sure there are both camps where obviously a tanker will crumble mobs much faster than the controller and vice versa. That can be said for every AT, so with AT's roles being less strict... I just don't see why the tanker takes the full brunt of the blame on these situations alone much less why someone would single him out and tell him that in such a harsh manner. 

 

I will agree that in this circumstance it seems like he was zooming all over the place and had no regard for his teammates, but maybe he wasn't intending to be the "tanker" for the team and people just *assumed* he was, maybe his build played more like a brute/scrapper rather than strict tanker. 

[Myrmidon]

On 1/9/2020 at 3:27 AM, Clave Dark 5 said:

"farmer bro"

New term found.😂
 

Thank you, Clave.

[Myrmidon]

On 1/11/2020 at 11:11 AM, Tahliah said:

Slam me with a one star if you wish, but unless you are running a tank who taunts and groups mobs, you can't expect others to meet your old-style requirements.  If you are such a tank, let the team know you are tanking in that manner, and we trolls stand ready to back you up. 

Or, I’ll just do my work and let you come to that conclusion in your own.😉

 

 

So far, my absolute favorite was in a Synapse when the Controller leader asked me in tells if I could group the mobs closer. I told him that the mobs actually have to move my way before he spammed that immobilize. All it took was one spawn of holding off a second or two and he said (in team chat), “Ok, I’ll let the Tank work”.

 

Use your immobilizes, knock the mobs to the Moon; it doesn’t matter. When I am Tanking, I’ll still control all of the aggro that I can find.

[Doc Ranger]

Haha...that's funny. Any troller that throws around immobs first is looking for a dirt nap 😉

[Solarverse]

@33053222

 

Ice_Warden pretty much said everything I would have said and better. All I can do is add to it. You need to realize that for the longest time, players who played chaotically were very far and few in between. I hardly ever ran into them. However, over the years playing in this way seems to have grown more and more popular, which is fine, play the way you want to. However, that does not mean that *I* have to play with that person. Like Ice_Warden says, there are those of us who prefer a little order in our teams and there are those that prefer total chaos. Those two types of players just simply;y put, don't mix. At all. All I wanted to know, which the answer had been answered a long time ago, was how did this happen? When and why did this chaotic play style happen? But like I said, I got my answer from many perspectives a long time ago.

[popdoo2989]

On live, when the game first jumped off, it was based on team play, each original AT had a part to ply on a team, most knew playing that AT , what their part wasd in a team - Tanks head in, group up mobs, scraps run in after that, troillers at the same time scraps are going in wait for mobs to be around tank and lay down holds, then blaster let off their attacks while the defenders attack, heal and buff as needed, made for  an almost hypnotic little ballet when everyone knew their role and played their part.......NOW, we are currently ALL OP, I have been on tyeams as a tank where trollers, b;lasters, cors , Doms, and MM's are all using builds that they are trying to prove to themselves and the rest of the team they don not need Tanks/Brutes.  When I try to tank, I get the whole team running in with me, all tryinjg to get their alphas in before I can even get the whole group taunted, usuallt scattering the whole mob, but NOT killing them meaning now i am running all over the place trying to reclaim the aggro, As a tank I secretly hope they accidebtly set a Malta. Carnie, or Arachnos mission so that they learn that there was a reason in the old days we used to "follow the Tank".  Camt say how many tuimes I saw an MM or a blaster run in thinking they had shields and got the whole team wasted.....Except me, I retake aggro and move the mob far enough away for them to use their awakens and rest, then as soon as they are healed they go back to the we dont have to have a tank nowadays conversation.....

 

[tjknight]

There's tougher content in the game. People skip the harder mobs for easier enemies. Arachnos, Praetorians, Awakened, Malta, Carnies et... They all provide a challenge for even fully IO'd teams. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by tjknight
Spelling

[Riverdusk]

Old thread I know, but I've been watching this issue for a while now as I know it is a common complaint among melee.  Seems to be the new bugaboo after knockback complaints.  The only melee I tend to play are scrapper or stalker and this hasn't particularly been an issue when I play them.   This is of particular interest to me  when I play a plant controller as spamming a contained roots is actually pretty good aoe damage.  

 

I'll always try to wait a couple of beats for melee to gather up mobs before I throw roots though.  Problem is?  A lot of times at least in the teams I'm in, I've discovered I'm just wasting my time.  I've noticed the melees don't really make any effort to try and gather them.  On a team with more than one melee with a taunt aura often it is the melees themselves keeping things "spread out" as they all head to different parts of the same mob.  So, maybe the next complaint is people with taunt auras shouldn't be keeping things spread out?  Anyway, a lot of the time the mobs seem to end up dying pretty much right where they were when they spawned anyway even when I don't use the aoe immobilize.  Waiting or not waiting a lot of times I don't see a lot of difference. 

 

So, basically it comes down to it very much depends on the team for me.   However, I will be annoyed by a tank/brute that isn't doing a good job gathering or makes zero effort to gather and then complains about an aoe immobilize though.  A good tank/brute gathering them into a nice tight pile that I can then spam roots (and creepers and plasmatic taser and psi tornado) on is a beautiful thing, but a lot of time doesn't happen.  And honestly I work with whatever I'm given and still have fun.  I've always said I find the randomness and occasional challenge of a random PuG some of the most fun.

 

And hey, to bookend this back to melees complaining about knockback instead.  At the least an aoe immobilize stops the energy blaster and others from spreading them even further apart.   Yes, I've often used mine to actually control the mob from teammates knocking them all over the place. 😄  

 

Edit:  Forgot one other common scenario I've noticed.  I'll be on a team with other controllers who do immediately open with their aoe immobilize.  At that point, nothing for me to do but join in.  Then I wonder if people are getting upset with me even though I'm not the one who "started it".

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Riverdusk

[brasilgringo]

Also people are proccing the AOE immobs for damage which, while it pales in a team setting, they get used to solo.  So they spam the immobs.

[Harlequin565]

On my Tanks, if the team are facemelting and/or chaotic, I leave them to their chaos and skip to the next group.

 

There is no real need for Tanks in the game any more - esp at high levels, and so I'll just jump to the next mob group and get it ready for the loons to catch up. See how many I can herd up before they arrive. And when they do, I'm off into the next group. I wish the agro cap was higher!

 

The problem with +4 difficulty is that the mobs just become bigger sacks of HP. They don't threaten as much, just take longer to kill (making scraps, brutes and blasters more valuable). And I think altering the meaning of those difficulty spikes would go a long way to resolving the issue. Folks on +0 could play as they do today and have fun. Folks on +4 (or +5/+6) could face a challenge that required controllers, buffers/debuffers and tanks.