AR / Device or AR / Energy

[madatlis16]

I was not sure what would be better with Assault rifle, I like the idea of /devices however I think /energy would be fun as well.

 

Anybody have any thoughts?

[Doomguide2005]

Thematically Devices fits well, but either will work.  I haven't yet played /Devices (or AR) since live so not sure how the changes will effect it. I know I did enjoy the static group with friends, all AR/Devices was a blast.  First time we got to use Full Auto was a large outdoor Council map we surrounded them and opened up .  Not  quite the chaos of pulling entire multi-tiered rooms into literal mine fields but very satisfying. 

[eknudson]

Had an AR/Energy back in old CoH. It takes a while to get there, but you can easily have perma Boost range and boost range is very nice with all of AR's cones. It makes it much easier to lay waste to whole spawns if you can fit the cones together better, and buckshot's narrow cone is a whole lot less narrow 55' out.   Stacking stuns is also nice to have. 

[madatlis16]

Hmm that is something to think about with the increase range with cone effects, thanks for your thoughts!

[crkohl]

There's definitely pros and cons to both. I'm currently leveling an AR/Devices Blaster. Very fun and also very thematic. The buffs to Devices have been huge. There's also some synergy with Targeting Drone and Sniper Rifle. When Targeting Drone is active, Sniper Rifle (and Sniper Rifle ALONE. No other snipe power) gets a big damage boost. It does stupid damage. Especially a sniper shot outside of combat. Field Operative is also one of the best sustains of all Blaster secondaries IMO, giving you stealth, regen, and recovery in one. Much better than having to hit another click every time like EM's sustain. 

 

However, EM's synergy with AR is very nice too with Boost Range as eknudson said. And some people dislike AR/Devices not having either Build Up or Aim. EM has Build Up. With EM's strong melee attacks, you'll be more likely to jump in to the fray as well. Definitely more of a Blapper set.

 

Both excellent combos IMO so it's really up to what you'd prefer.

[Lockpick]

The new Devices is a really good set now.  If you haven't tried it you may want to give it a whirl.  Field Operative is an extremely good power.

[kelika2]

Rifle really needs a build up.  Between having some of the most resisted damage in the game and mostly aoe you really need that boost.

Tactical Operative never suppresses its cloaking, so you are perma invis.

And AR/EM worked for me because EM was so light on power slots/enhancement slots I was able to slot Knockback to Knockdown in Buckshot and M30 grenade so I can AoE freely

Also Energize is the least costume intrusive blaster recovery/regen power out of all of them.

[eknudson]

The amount of lethal resistance can get frustrating. I'm leveling an AR defender and trying to kill clockwork (for example) with basically all lethal damage and no build up or aim is a PITA.

 

As I see the synergies--

AR/Dev has more obvious conceptual synergy. The Sniper rifle + targeting drone damage boost is not to be discounted. Toxic web grenade makes Ignite usable as a power that can do serious fire damage. Taser now has a bit of range on it so you can stack disorients without quite getting in melee range. No reason to ever get near melee range, and most things (stupid war wolves) won't get to melee with you either.

 

AR/Eng is a far less common build, which can be nice if you don't want to roll the same toon as everyone else. Build up is a very nice power and you miss it when you don't have it. It's nice to have access to attacks that don't do lethal damage and powers like Bone Smasher that do loads of non-lethal damage with fairly fast animations are good. Stuns in almost everything to stack with beanbag. Boost range lets you rain AoE hell from far away with wide cones covering the whole spawn.

[madatlis16]

I leveled both AR/Dev and AR/Eng and I will say the range boost is amazing!! Thanks everyone with all the information! 

[Saikochoro]

On 1/8/2020 at 12:01 PM, eknudson said:

The amount of lethal resistance can get frustrating. I'm leveling an AR defender and trying to kill clockwork (for example) with basically all lethal damage and no build up or aim is a PITA.

 

As I see the synergies--

AR/Dev has more obvious conceptual synergy. The Sniper rifle + targeting drone damage boost is not to be discounted. Toxic web grenade makes Ignite usable as a power that can do serious fire damage. Taser now has a bit of range on it so you can stack disorients without quite getting in melee range. No reason to ever get near melee range, and most things (stupid war wolves) won't get to melee with you either.

 

AR/Eng is a far less common build, which can be nice if you don't want to roll the same toon as everyone else. Build up is a very nice power and you miss it when you don't have it. It's nice to have access to attacks that don't do lethal damage and powers like Bone Smasher that do loads of non-lethal damage with fairly fast animations are good. Stuns in almost everything to stack with beanbag. Boost range lets you rain AoE hell from far away with wide cones covering the whole spawn.

I just wanted to read up on the sniper rifle + targeting drone unique damage buff. This is separate from the general 20% bonus in combat and 80% out of combat correct? How much is it? Can you point me to where I can read up on it?

[eknudson]

44 minutes ago, Saikochoro said:

I just wanted to read up on the sniper rifle + targeting drone unique damage buff. This is separate from the general 20% bonus in combat and 80% out of combat correct? How much is it? Can you point me to where I can read up on it?

Not sure how much there is to read... maybe others see more detail.  The power description for targeting drone says:"While in use, any sniper rifle shots you make will do additional damage."  

 

If you check the old red tomax city of data it shows sniper rifle as doing 172.67 lethal damage plus 33.52 lethal damage "if range finder mode is active". Targeting drone turns on range finder mode. Basically, targeting drone makes sniper rifle (and ONLY sniper rifle, no other snipes) do 12% more damage. 12% more than base damage, not enhanced damage, though.

[Saikochoro]

3 minutes ago, eknudson said:

Not sure how much there is to read... maybe others see more detail.  The power description for targeting drone says:"While in use, any sniper rifle shots you make will do additional damage."  

 

If you check the old red tomax city of data it shows sniper rifle as doing 172.67 lethal damage plus 33.52 lethal damage "if range finder mode is active". Targeting drone turns on range finder mode. Basically, targeting drone makes sniper rifle (and ONLY sniper rifle, no other snipes) do 12% more damage. 12% more than base damage, not enhanced damage, though.

Thanks a bunch. That is a nice bonus!

[kelika2]

Assault Rifle/Energy Manip.

Build up

Energize

You do not really need anything else as an Assault rifle, with a modest amount of haste you already have a 1-2-3 rotation with instant snipes and more AoE than you know what to do with most of the time.  Since a chunk of your rifle stuff is cone based being in melee will get annoying fast.

 

Many of the Devices stuff just has no place in todays CoH in groups/incarnate stuff.  While double Gun Drones are neat when sitting still attacking an AV you cannot control them

Mines and Bomb take too long to set up

Toxic Web Nade is sweet, but redraw

Caltrops is cool but fear effect can have undesirable positioning

Target Drone has been buffed time and again but still

Taser + beanbag is too much to dedicate to just be able to stun bosses

Smoke grenade sounds cool on paper/roleplay but -5% tohit isnt much, and is resisted at higher levels.  and a stealth IO in sprint+cloaking device is better than smoke nade

Cloaking Device DOES NOT SUPPRESS ITS GRAPHIC WHEN ATTACKING OR GETTING ATTACKED.  This is the biggest issue that forced me to go /energy.  You are always 95% cloaked all the time and its maddening

 

[Haijinx]

It would probably synergize with Tactical Arrow well.  Too bad you couldn't have a Assault Rifle Based Tactical Arrow instead of Bow. 

[StrikerFox]

I loved AR/Nrg back during live. It was able to snipe/pull Nightstar while standing on the edge of the tennis court in BAF (300' something range with Sting of the Manticore IO set + Boost Range + Cardiac/Intuition Alpha). Nowadays, it would probably have some decent mitigation with Sudden Acceleration KB-KD IO in Buckshot and M30. Also the upcoming Targeted AoE IO set has a damage proc (Bombardment, currently on Beta). It will help make Full Auto and Flamethrower become better proc monsters.

 

I had an AR/Devices as well. It was ok. Built for recharge, Burnout, and Ageless Destiny. At times, it was able to have 4 Gun Drones flying around. Though two of the GD only overlapped for about 10 seconds.

[r0y]

AR/energy is good for gimmicks.  AR is better with /devices, which is the best blaster secondary out there.  T-Drone + Field Operative are the two best toggles blasters get, period.  The rest is just delicious gravy (immob, smoke, taser, trip mine).  So much more functionality, survivability, etc. with /Dev.

 

Energy is too click-intensive, too many pre-click things.  Slows your mojo down.  Sometimes you just want to pew-pew-pew, not click-pew-click-pew-click-pew.

 

Unless you are going to PvP /energy is meh.

[Saikochoro]

I am going to necro this thread as opposed to starting a new one because I am on the fence with the same question.  I want to do AR primary, but can’t decide between devices and EM for the secondary. 
 

Things to consider:
- I want the mass majority of my active playing and damage to be coming from my primary powerset. 

- I have zero interest in using either trip mine or time bomb in devices. I will be teaming for the most part and just don’t have the patience for those.

- Gone drone sounds cool, but have never been a huge fan of pets. 

- Caltrops was toxic web nade seem decent, but mainly would take them for set bonus slotting and then use them when I see fit. Not high on my priority list. 
- I definitely like targeting drone and field operative. Those are the main things that draw me toward devices. 
- boost range is the main thing drawing me toward EM. Though if mids is correct on the effects of boost power, it will be insanely easy to over softcap defenses with that on.

- I like build up. 
- Although it would not be a high priority EM seems to have good melee options for the mobs that get too friendly.

- I like idea of field operative better than energize, but still like energize just fine. I use energy aura on a lot of melee toons so I’m used to it. 
 

Those are my more detail thoughts. So the real questions are:

 

1. Is taking devices worth it if the only reasons I consider it is targeting drone and field operative?

 

2. For those having had boost range on AR, would you ever go back to not having boost range without groaning?

 

Any further opinions would be greatly appreciated! I will honestly probably end up leveling both, but want to start with one that will keep me interested. 

[Neogumbercules]

To answer your two questions, yes, Field Operative and Targeting Drone are definitely both worth taking devices as a whole powerset over /EM. 

 

To the second question, I never suffered without boost range so I can't say having it would make it worthwhile to lose the toggles from /Dev. 

 

Web Nade is not skippable but it's not an awful power. The DoT is slow AF though so don't rely on it for damage. Also don't fall into the Nade/Ignite trap. That's an exceptionally situational combination that you'll almost never use. 

 

Caltrops is a great power. The control it offers synergizes like crazy with M30 and Bonfire (both slotted with KB2KD). 

 

Taser is a single target damage ability with some range. The damage is good but the animation sucks. That's enough to make it skippable for me, but if you want to double up the stun with Beanbag + Taser to get bosses, you can make it work. 

 

Trip Mine is very good now. It's basically a PBAOE attack. The interrupt time was removed so you can use it in combat and the damage is good. Inside of a Caltrops and Bonfire flop fest you'll be able to use it very safely. 

 

Timb bomb still sucks. The interrupt time is gone but the countdown is still long. Might be worth taking on a farmer for that extra damage but the cooldown is still something ridiculous like 4 or 5 minutes. 

 

Gun drone also sucks. It taunts, so it dies fast. It's not worth the cast time. 

 

Field Operative can slot literally every single God tier IO in the game. LotG, Miracle, Numina, Panacea, Preventative Medicine, Performance Shifter, Karma KB protection.... It's so good. 

 

Targeting Drone can slot tons of great sets too, like Gaussians and Rectified Reticule. Plus it gives +perception. You'll be able to take your revenge on all the Night Widows. Stack with Tactics for ultimate perception. 

 

Devices went from being one of the worst blaster secondaries to one of the best. It doesn't have the damage of /Fire or /Elec but it's a very well-rounded set that plays great as kind of a set it and forget it blaster, which is what I'm all for these days. 

[Nemu]

On 7/20/2020 at 10:12 PM, Saikochoro said:

I am going to necro this thread as opposed to starting a new one because I am on the fence with the same question.  I want to do AR primary, but can’t decide between devices and EM for the secondary. 
 

Things to consider:
- I want the mass majority of my active playing and damage to be coming from my primary powerset. 

- I have zero interest in using either trip mine or time bomb in devices. I will be teaming for the most part and just don’t have the patience for those.

- Gone drone sounds cool, but have never been a huge fan of pets. 

- Caltrops was toxic web nade seem decent, but mainly would take them for set bonus slotting and then use them when I see fit. Not high on my priority list. 
- I definitely like targeting drone and field operative. Those are the main things that draw me toward devices. 
- boost range is the main thing drawing me toward EM. Though if mids is correct on the effects of boost power, it will be insanely easy to over softcap defenses with that on.

- I like build up. 
- Although it would not be a high priority EM seems to have good melee options for the mobs that get too friendly.

- I like idea of field operative better than energize, but still like energize just fine. I use energy aura on a lot of melee toons so I’m used to it. 
 

Those are my more detail thoughts. So the real questions are:

 

1. Is taking devices worth it if the only reasons I consider it is targeting drone and field operative?

 

2. For those having had boost range on AR, would you ever go back to not having boost range without groaning?

 

Any further opinions would be greatly appreciated! I will honestly probably end up leveling both, but want to start with one that will keep me interested. 

I just took an Arch/ninja blaster to 50, that's about as close I'll get to playing a secondary that doesn't do damage.

 

I ran a Citadel today and I can wipe a human spawn with rain of arrows + explosive arrow + fistful but when it comes to robots it takes me about the same time the rest of the team took to clear 2 groups to whittle down two mech bosses and that's with the ninja sword attacks tossed in the mix. I can't imagine how frustratingly slow it would be to only use your primary, which features a heavily resisted damage type, for those situations.

 

That's my way of endorsing /EM. Taking your comments in consideration (no trip mine, meh on taser...etc...) The utility you get from field op and targeting drone can easily be replicated with IOs and pool picks. You can't say the same about replicating the damage options in /EM for /Dev. You might not need them all the time, but you'll be glad you have them when you do need them.

[Marshal_General]

I was messing around with the planner and I stuck every proc that caltrops could take into it. According to the planner, the average damage would be 526.

 I am not sure if it would be worth it. I will have to try it on test.

[drbuzzard]

19 hours ago, Neogumbercules said:

Taser is a single target damage ability with some range. The damage is good but the animation sucks. That's enough to make it skippable for me, but if you want to double up the stun with Beanbag + Taser to get bosses, you can make it work.

If one is capable of ignoring the animation (or at least not caring about it like I do), Taser is a great attack now. Range is a bit short at 20', but when it does 100 damage base in 1 second of animation, that's damned good. I quite happily put it into my attack chains on my multiple /dev blasters.

 

Personally I have trouble finding any other blaster secondary I want to play other than dev, but I also don't much care for blapping.

[Chelsea Rorec]

+1 for AR/Dev

The thing i like is if you take munitions mastery and LRM you have 3 large mass mob destroyers in Full Auto,LRM and trip mine if you slot it.

Not many other blasters have 3 large AOE's like that and are up as often.

(/me waits for the post about how such and such blaster can do that).

 

Also +1 for Taser

It does more damage than buckshot and M30 which i never took.

I always felt AR/Dev needed some form of melee like the rifle stock bash you see on Longbow and Taser sorta fills that.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Chelsea Rorec

[senseichen]

One thing I didn't see mentioned: Sniper Shot on Homecoming gives a 10s, 50% range buff.  So Boost Range + Sniper Rife is 275+ range, but then all your cones are 200+% range.  I only noticed this late on my AR/Plant, and was thinking of rolling AR/Nrg just to try to play this to hilt.

[WindDemon21]

/energy so you at least get a build up power you can put the build up proc in. +boost range on cones.

[plainguy]

I went Range Cap Hoverblaster with my AR Device skipping Trip mine and it is great because Gun Drone does NOT get that much aggro from a DISTANCE..

 

If you go for Trip mine then you are naturally going to be looking to be on the ground.  Which means your Gun Drone(s) will get killed in seconds from the AOE Taunt they have..  

I have a DP/Device and between Hail of Bullets and Trip mine its a pretty good combo.. BUT that change to Gun Drone just kills them off in SECONDS..  
I have literally tried Hail of Bullets, Trip Mine, Bullet Rain and then summoning Gun Drone hoping to have enough aggro but I just cannot peel mobs off Gun Drone at melee range.. 
  

I used my AR Device to PL my Fire Rad Brute farmer..