I'm seeing more tankers these days, are you playing more tankers?

[Cutter]

I've run on a few 2- and 3-tank teams in the last little while, and we've always ended up playing tanker leapfrog. Whichever tank jumps into the first spawn keeps them busy for the team, and the rest go on to the next (and the next) and start softening them up and/or dragging them back. Maybe I was just lucky to get that kind of coordination. Definitely made everyone feel useful!

[siolfir]

10 minutes ago, Cutter said:

I've run on a few 2- and 3-tank teams in the last little while, and we've always ended up playing tanker leapfrog. Whichever tank jumps into the first spawn keeps them busy for the team, and the rest go on to the next (and the next) and start softening them up and/or dragging them back. Maybe I was just lucky to get that kind of coordination. Definitely made everyone feel useful!

This. 🙂 Doesn't have to be tankers, either.

[Doc_Scorpion]

1 hour ago, Shred Monkey said:

On a team with multiple tanks you get this tanker-competition thing happening where one tank ends up getting the agro and the other doesn't get to do the thing they built their toon to do.  It's rather off-putting, IMHO and it tends to be an artificial cap on ratio of tanks to non-tanks playing at any given time.  If you get too many tanks, someone will often switch to a non-tank rather than continue to compete for agro.  

 

That's a PEBKAC class problem, and nothing any changes to the game will ever fix.  I build my tanks around a mix of melee damage and holding aggro, I do just fine no matter how many other tankers there are on the team.

[Sailboat]

33 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

That's a PEBKAC class problem, and nothing any changes to the game will ever fix.  I build my tanks around a mix of melee damage and holding aggro, I do just fine no matter how many other tankers there are on the team.

Sometimes I've played "Taunt Tennis" with another Tanker, making the bad guys run back and forth between us as we alternate taunts.  Works better if they're slowed.  Not especially strategic, but it's funny.

[Sailboat]

Recently made a Shield/Battle Axe Tanker on another shard for when Tanker Tuesdays rotate to that shard.  I think concept is important...despite Axe being mechanically sub-optimal, it's critical for the theme of the character.  Increasingly I find myself giving more time to cool characters than to potentially better-optimized piles of points.

 

edited to add:  Thus it may be that coming up with completed concepts is delaying my rolling out numerous tanks I'd otherwise be happy playing.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Sailboat

[Snarky]

55 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

That's a PEBKAC class problem, and nothing any changes to the game will ever fix.  I build my tanks around a mix of melee damage and holding aggro, I do just fine no matter how many other tankers there are on the team.

Thanks for making me look up PEBKAC lol.  Yeah i agree. Maybe if you are really running a horrid tank then you are going to have an issue ( like you built so poor you only have enough end to taunt ). But any Tank (even before the generous changes ) does well in melee.  I just soloed redside every contact on an invul (no damage aura ) Dark ( crap AoE at best ) and melee was fine. Maybe boring but doing okay. Its definitely a user issue. I was running my Dark Dark Brute last night. Not particularly tanky. No taunt   In two separate TF at the end there was a rush of ambush adds.  I veered from the AV lightning fast and landed on them. That let the team concentrate on the AV at the cost of one Brutes assistance on DPS.  You just have to always be looking out for how to help the team complete the current task faster.  That could be getting 3 struggling teammates in a hall split from the party back to the group or that could be juggling two AVs

Edited February 10, 2020 by Snarky

[DougGraves]

2 hours ago, Cutter said:

I've run on a few 2- and 3-tank teams in the last little while, and we've always ended up playing tanker leapfrog. Whichever tank jumps into the first spawn keeps them busy for the team, and the rest go on to the next (and the next) and start softening them up and/or dragging them back. Maybe I was just lucky to get that kind of coordination. Definitely made everyone feel useful!

I've had this happen on several teams recently.   I've also gone ahead too quickly and been beaten down before the rest of the team arrived.   Freakshow is the biggest problem for this when razzing freaks keep the team from moving forward. 

[Call Me Awesome]

21 hours ago, Ultimate15 said:

Hrrrrm.

 

What about Bio Armor / Stone melee? Thoughts on that? 

From what I've heard Bio has it's plusses and minuses but I've never played it myself.  From what I've read the durability or damage or endurance stances would make for an interesting character.  And Stone Melee is a load of fun to play while offering considerable damage mitigation due to it's knockdowns, the KD/Stun of Fault (a great opener to get everyone's attention) and Seismic Smash's MAG 4 hold.  I'd suggest Heavy Mallet, Taunt, Fault, Tremor and Seismic Smash as the "must have" powers in the set.  Fault also takes a number of IO damage procs and due to it's recharge they'll usually fire on most every mob in range almost every time.  CMA has 3 slotted and at 50 that's close 300 points of damage out of that "no damage" power.

[Cutter]

7 minutes ago, DougGraves said:

I've had this happen on several teams recently.   I've also gone ahead too quickly and been beaten down before the rest of the team arrived.   Freakshow is the biggest problem for this when razzing freaks keep the team from moving forward. 

Yeah, that also happens! In my experiences the leapfrogging wasn't something that we did right from go - the rhythm developed as we went along and get a sense of our capabilities. And even then things would hiccup.

 

There's a significant difference based on levels, slots and powersets too. I took a 30-something Bio/Claw through one of the Posi's a little while ago, with two other lower-level tanks on the team as well. With generic 35 IOs she was significantly more survivable than the others, which when I realized it, led me to slow down and dive into each spawn to take the heat off the lowbies before moving forward. Working on that awareness is an ongoing development for me.

[Replacement]

Yes.

[Haijinx]

Good to know the plan seems to have worked for the moment.  

 

 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Good to know the plan seems to have worked for the moment.  

 

 

 

 

Kinda. Now I have to delete 5 tanks. I've settled on Shield/Mace and Rad/EM as my mains.

 

Seriously considering moving BZB Brute to another server and creating BZB tank. That'd be 3. Too many damn alts.

 

Also, and a complete side note, my fire/bio sent is farkin OPAF.

 

Powercreep is real since HC and post-snap.

[Solarverse]

36 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Kinda. Now I have to delete 5 tanks. I've settled on Shield/Mace and Rad/EM as my mains.

 

Seriously considering moving BZB Brute to another server and creating BZB tank. That'd be 3. Too many damn alts.

 

Also, and a complete side note, my fire/bio sent is farkin OPAF.

 

Powercreep is real since HC and post-snap.

I have always loved Tanks, but until recently, I played them more out of nostalgia than anything else. Now I actually feel like I am contributing to teams...and I like that.

[EmmySky]

I only play one tank at a time.

 

I am on my third crop of toons so my third tank.

[Myrmidon]

On 2/9/2020 at 9:40 PM, AsheTDust said:

The changes are so good that there really isn’t a need to play brutes anymore.

 

Tankers get higher health, better defenses and now can hit more targets than brutes with their AoEs. Sure Brutes can do a little more damage single target wise, but honestly, this game is all about the AoEs.

 

Time to watch the Brutes become the redheaded stepchildren the Tankers used to be!

Nah, Brutes still bring the pain, it’s just that Tankers have now significantly closed the gap.

[Myrmidon]

On 2/9/2020 at 4:50 PM, Ultimate15 said:

Hrrrrm.

 

What about Bio Armor / Stone melee? Thoughts on that? 

Bio Armor is like Willpower on Crack. I highly suggest giving anything paired with it a go.

[loyalreader]

19 hours ago, Sailboat said:

Recently made a Shield/Battle Axe Tanker on another shard for when Tanker Tuesdays rotate to that shard.  I think concept is important...despite Axe being mechanically sub-optimal, it's critical for the theme of the character.  Increasingly I find myself giving more time to cool characters than to potentially better-optimized piles of points.

Hey @Sailboatjust rolled up the same based on concept. Curious to know why Axe is 'mechanically sub-optimal' (not challenging, real question)? I've played War Mace before and it's a great set. Battle Axe looks to be the basically the same but lethal instead of smashing. Is that the issue? On paper it looks good but you can't really tell until you start playing....

[Replacement]

20 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Also, and a complete side note, my fire/bio sent is farkin OPAF.

 

Powercreep is real since HC and post-snap.

I question just how much of this is post-Snap. My understanding is Bio Amor is just Too Much™.  This is the first credible case I've ever read of a Sentinel being anything but "slightly-but-not-criminally underperforming."

 

--

 

To elaborate on Tanks -- I've always loved Tankers but Live taught me not to expect to enjoy them.  I'm now thrilled about them being a bit easier on my low-man settings, even though (perhaps ironically) the first thing I've done has been to focus on a tanker who has yet to really reap any of the tanker buff's benefits (my shield/kin, which only gets aoe at the back end of its career and I'm nowhere near that).

Edited February 11, 2020 by Replacement

[siolfir]

15 minutes ago, Replacement said:

I question just how much of this is post-Snap. My understanding is Bio Amor is just Too Much™.

Well, Bio Armor was still only available in beta pre-Snap, so with regards to Bio specifically, all of it. It was one of the sets that I was waiting to make a new alt for when the shutdown was announced.

[Sailboat]

1 hour ago, loyalreader said:

Hey @Sailboatjust rolled up the same based on concept. Curious to know why Axe is 'mechanically sub-optimal' (not challenging, real question)? I've played War Mace before and it's a great set. Battle Axe looks to be the basically the same but lethal instead of smashing. Is that the issue? On paper it looks good but you can't really tell until you start playing....

Well, here's a fairly thorough discussion on the topic:

 

 

It's worth noting two minor points in Axe's favor:  there's a lot of knockdown powers,  so you'll see a lot of it just by playing the set; and War Mace (is there a peaceful mace?) has stuns, which can mean you're chasing staggering foes as they lurch away.

 

I still love Axe, however.

[siolfir]

2 minutes ago, Sailboat said:

is there a peaceful mace?

Yep. Ceremonial ones.

[Marine X]

Currently have only Marine X @ 50+ ( Inv/SS ) on Reunion, but with the frequency with which I can play, that's actually doing good for me. Have a 50+ Fire/Rad Brute, Bubba Burns on Everlasting, never got a Brute there on Live. Have a few Project Tanks, Grimmwolf @32 ( Bio/Savage ) and Major Meson @13 ( Rad/Rad ), but mostly all my remakes from Live and not enough time to play them. Have definitely noticed the changes since the Patch, Thanks HC Crew, seems this may get a little love back for having a Meat Shield on your team, it's been a while.

Still gotta get back to Livingston @13 ( Stone/Fire ), AC Volt @22 ( Elect/Elect ), Warhorse @24 ( Shield/Mace ) and Xeniram @12 ( Bio/Titan ), but hopefully we have a good long time to get there and I'm not in a hurry.

[Bill Z Bubba]

3 hours ago, Replacement said:

I question just how much of this is post-Snap. My understanding is Bio Amor is just Too Much™.  This is the first credible case I've ever read of a Sentinel being anything but "slightly-but-not-criminally underperforming."

 

I don't die. Hover plus bio armor with fire blast being backed by Bio's +damage... it's probably the top Sent combo. Sure, Sent damage is lacking in the overall... but when you never faceplant, your DPS gets buffed accordingly compared to the other ATs eating dirt.

[Apparition]

8 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I don't die. Hover plus bio armor with fire blast being backed by Bio's +damage... it's probably the top Sent combo. Sure, Sent damage is lacking in the overall... but when you never faceplant, your DPS gets buffed accordingly compared to the other ATs eating dirt.

 

... What other ATs eating dirt?  Considering that I use my Blaster to tank ITFs with, and heck even occasionally tank with a Corruptor, I don't see it.

[Bill Z Bubba]

4 minutes ago, Apparition said:

 

... What other ATs eating dirt?  Considering that I use my Blaster to tank ITFs with, and heck even occasionally tank with a Corruptor, I don't see it.

 

<shrug> I can solo in DA with my Sent. My blaster is a painful nightmare solo and she's a fire/time.