Income Inequality In CoX

[VileTerror]

I thought "The 20s" didn't technically start until 2021.  Decades are weird.

[Troo]

1 hour ago, Rathulfr said:

6 hours ago, Sovera said:

At that point we might as well be insta level 50 with all incarnates unlocked and ready to be slotted.

https://wehavecake.net

or Pineapple.

 

copy player over and insta level 50 with all incarnates unlocked and ready to be slotted. Isn't that what we already have? Really it doesn't have to be persistent if folks are skipping to the end anyway.

 

[Neiska]

if they removed the money (timesink) you might as well remove the exp (timesink) incarnate (timesink). If there was an "insta anything" vendor, there wouldn't be any reason to play at all besides roleplay and test builds. And people would get tired of the game fairly quickly i imagine, which might lead to players growing bored and moving on. Not sure we want that. Not saying that's 100% what would happen, just what i think logically would happen. Both the farmers/market players would stop, no point, and the exp grinders would stop, again no point. There would be no point to working for anything, and anything you did accomplish wouldn't be that gratifying either.

[Ironblade]

On 2/16/2020 at 8:47 PM, Inheritor said:

Ideally, I'd like to see this income inequality reduced, perhaps by dramatically increasing the rewards earned from radios and weekly strike targets. Realistically, the top two classes will always earn too much and there's no simple or even desirable way of reigning them in.

No!  That's socialism!

 

Seriously, though, your entire post is based on the premise that this income imbalance is a problem.  It isn't.  It's simply a fact of life in pretty much every video game that has some sort of currency.  And the top two classes don't earn "too much" because that's not a thing.

[Rathulfr]

5 hours ago, EmmySky said:

Yes, but are they roaring yet?  😝

Give 'em another few months to warm up.

[Rathulfr]

4 hours ago, VileTerror said:

I thought "The 20s" didn't technically start until 2021.  Decades are weird.

That's what I used to think, too, but every retrospective about previous decades (and centuries) seem to start with year 0, like disk drive numbers. *shrug*

[Inheritor]

The inf timesink can already be trivialized through the AH. It takes 10 minutes to raise inf for an okay IO build and maybe 40 minutes for a top end one. You don't even have to go out of your way to do it, just bid/convert/sell while waiting for your TF to fill. The timesink is already nothing more than an illusion for newcomers who are unaware that it can be bypassed, and a self-imposed challenge for people who are aware but choose not to bypass it, to varying degrees. What purpose does the illusion serve?

[KC4800]

Because its still a game. Microsoft Solitaire people still play that. What purpose does that serve?

[Snarky]

Two things.

 

1) you filks have about convinced me to change my inf making schemes to just straight up auctioneering

 

2) people that use the game as an RP platform are being completely ripped off by the Homecoming team. They put in just as much time gaming as someone doing a MoM trial or Underground Trial. But they get squat.  It just does not show appreciation for time invested in participating 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Snarky

[DougGraves]

The problem is not an influence divide.  It is a power divide.   

 

Other games have special gear for end game dungeons but that's the end game and you progress through it.  CoH just mixes the godmode characters with everyone else for missions, TFs, etc.

 

If people want to grind for gear that is fine.  The game just needs to recognize them as being more powerful and give them a higher challenge and reduce their power when exemplaring down.

[jubakumbi]

18 hours ago, Oubliette_Red said:

Wait, so IOs are easily attainable and hard to get at the same?

 

😏

Yes, it would seem this is the case.

The seven players in the OPs dream team have them, yet one does not, so, it's easy and hard.

 

The IO game is easy or hard depeneding on your personal brain chemistry and alloted time in game.

Just like everything else in every other MMO - the people that play a lot with focused energy get more rewards, full stop.

Those that do not spend that time and/or energy, do not, so they often think a game is hard.

 

It's an easy thing that some people make hard on themsleves because they refuse to do X or Y because 'moral reasons', then complain they don't have the goodies they desire.

 

The people coming out of the woodwork to belittle anything of which they do not approve, trying desperately to maintain the status quo so thier world is not 'ruined', so they can retain some level of control in thier minds.

 

Many of us have found lots of other ways to enjoy the game, but since we don't do it the 'right' way, we are all 'bad'.

It is truly classic cognitive dissonance, the super ability of humans.

 

Many if not most won't even really engage, as soon I start trying to talk about the real underlying issues, like the fact that influence does not really matter at this point, so why not eliminate it, or the fact that since there is no money involved there is no reason to force the player into pointless timesinks, people tell me to f-off and walk away.

 

So yeah, IOs are really easy to get, yet a lot of people choose to make it hard because they choose the way of pain and many of them are mad at the rest of us for simply playing the game ... dare I say ... better.

 

Ya'll have fun now...

[Snarky]

28 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

It is truly classic cognitive dissonance, the super ability of humans.

I have a super power!   YES

[Blastit]

20 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

The IO game is easy or hard depeneding on your personal brain chemistry and alloted time in game.

Just like everything else in every other MMO - the people that play a lot with focused energy get more rewards, full stop.

Those that do not spend that time and/or energy, do not, so they often think a game is hard.

I think this, on its face, is a reasonable enough summary of the issue. If you've got the brain energy to want to play the AH or whatever then you'll get a lot of resources and can kit your characters out in crazy ways, thus unlocking the game's systems in full. If you think that doing so is terminally boring and takes away from the whole superpunchy thing then you won't participate and will always be missing out on something. Certainly a proper issue to talk about.

 

 

However

 

You go on to say stuff like:

 

22 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

The people coming out of the woodwork to belittle anything of which they do not approve, trying desperately to maintain the status quo so thier world is not 'ruined', so they can retain some level of control in thier minds.

 

but then you use intentionally belittling language like:

22 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

So yeah, IOs are really easy to get, yet a lot of people choose to make it hard because they choose the way of pain and many of them are mad at the rest of us for simply playing the game ... dare I say ... better.

 

Ya'll have fun now...

 

so nobody is going to respect you.

 

People who spend a lot of time and energy on videogames are not morally superior. You aren't morally superior because you have the "brain chemistry" to want to access so-and-so system before getting to the real goodies. You aren't morally inferior for it, either, it's just a neutral thing. It's an issue of game design where it probably isn't possible to please everyone so whoever is in charge will have to make choices depending on what group or groups they want their game to be for.

[ShardWarrior]

Income inequality is self inflicted.  People who have more time to invest in play or are more knowledgeable/savvy on how to work the market are always going to have more wealth than those who can not or do not play a lot.  Everyone has the same opportunity and access to obtain in-game wealth - what they do with that opportunity is entirely up to the individual.

[jubakumbi]

13 minutes ago, Blastit said:

so nobody is going to respect you.

 

People who spend a lot of time and energy on videogames are not morally superior. You aren't morally superior because you have the "brain chemistry" to want to access so-and-so system before getting to the real goodies. You aren't morally inferior for it, either, it's just a neutral thing. It's an issue of game design where it probably isn't possible to please everyone so whoever is in charge will have to make choices depending on what group or groups they want their game to be for.

Not looking for respect here, "I have no desire to belong to a club that would have me as a member."

 

I am not saying in anyway I am morally superior, only that the passive-aggressive, 'morally superior' language I see used by a lot of the players that have decided anything but 'oldschool/HC' is 'wrong' has been constant, from well before the Snap, in an effort to make players conform.

Paragon Studios itself promoted the with the Holy War on AE powerleveling, for example, becuase it circumvented thier income and put strain on resources they did not expect and could not fix.

 

I am well-aware much of my language is attack focused, because to be blunt, I am tired of the years of attacks from these 'morally superior' players trying to tell the rest of us how to have fun, how uncreative some poeple are for enjoying Homage, how evil some players are for powerleveling, etc., some of them even now post things about shutting down anything non-HC as illegitimate, when it's all rogue servers and HC's moral high-road is already full of plot-holes.

I don't apologize for that, at all, it's half the point of my posting, I will remain on full attack mode against anyone trying to stiffle any way someone wants to play this game.

 

If you are having fun, then play the game.

If you are defining your fun based on making sure other people only play the game your way, then I won't hold my tongue on my POV of that terrible attitude.

 

I don't care if there are some people who just want everyone to post positive, rose colored views of these issues, I refuse to live with my head in the sand, I refuse to just ignore this portion of the player population, especially when they try so hard to con-job everyone else into ignoring reality, simply because they don't want to tackle the tough stuff.

 

And finally, all this is the very reason there should not be one source of truth for this game, because no single game runner can make every group that plays this game happy.

IMO, the game at this stage is something everyone should be allowed to enjoy, any way they like, without the ridicule from the moral minority telling them they play the game wrong.

 

[Oubliette_Red]

23 minutes ago, Blastit said:

<snip>

 

You go on to say stuff like:

<snip>

 

but then you use intentionally belittling language like:

 

<snip>

You'll come to find that jubakumbi interjects passive-aggressive comments in many of their posts, enough so that I believe it's intentional in order to illicit inflammatory responses from other forum members.  <shrugs>

[golstat2003]

5 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

 

 

And finally, all this is the very reason there should not be one source of truth for this game, because no single game runner can make every group that plays this game happy.

IMO, the game at this stage is something everyone should be allowed to enjoy, any way they like, without the ridicule from the moral minority telling them they play the game wrong.

 

Congratulations, we have that already. Mission accomplished. There are multiple servers and flavors of COH that cater to everyone now. Including a server that gives you everything without leveling up or having to gain inf.

 

Therefore no change needs to be made to Homecoming. Other server have what folks want.

Edited February 19, 2020 by golstat2003

[jubakumbi]

1 minute ago, Oubliette_Red said:

You'll come to find that jubakumbi interjects passive-aggressive comments in many of their posts, enough so that I believe it's intentional in order to illicit inflammatory responses from other forum members.  <shrugs>

More like I simply refuse to cover things in flowery language, I prefer blunt and to the point.

It's not passive aggressive, it's really just aggressive with an ocasional nod to civility.

 

Just because I am blunt and unapologetic for my language does not, in fact, mean I have some unterior motive, it just means I am not concerned if my opinion offends or upsets others - plenty of very nicely worded opinions are terribly offensive.

 

I am here to talk about ideas and actions taken by players and server runners, not to make friends or enemies, just laying out my opinions.

Like the idea that there needs to be a fix in the game to insure everyone gains roughly the same amount of INF no matter what they do in the game.

Why not just remove it entirely if it's just another thing everyone has the same amount of?

"When everyone is Super, no one will be."

[golstat2003]

1 minute ago, jubakumbi said:

 

I am here to talk about ideas and actions taken by players and server runners, not to make friends or enemies, just laying out my opinions.

Like the idea that there needs to be a fix in the game to insure everyone gains roughly the same amount of INF no matter what they do in the game.

Why not just remove it entirely if it's just another thing everyone has the same amount of?

"When everyone is Super, no one will be."

Funny enough I don't care what the other server runners are doing. I care what HC is doing, seeing as how this is a forum for the HC flavor of COH. Other servers doing something (releasing buggy ATs, giving folks insta 50s or inf) does not in any way make it a priority for here.

 

If I want to experience that I have other servers to go experience that on.

[jubakumbi]

3 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

Congratulations, we have that already. Mission accomplished. There are multiple servers and flavors of COH that cater to everyone now. Including a server that gives you everything without leveling up or having to gain inf.

 

Therefore no change needs to be made to Homecoming. Other server have what folks want.

And if some players (and server runners) have thier 'way', then that will evaporate, there are plenty of players that just love that idea.

As for changes to HC, they can do what they like, just as the reset of the server runners.

 

1 minute ago, golstat2003 said:

Funny enough I don't care what the other server runners are doing. I care what HC is doing, seeing as how this is a forum for the HC flavor of COH. Other servers doing something (releasing buggy ATs, giving folks insta 50s or inf) does not in any way make it a priority for here.

 

If I want to experience that I have other servers to go experience that on.

You trying to tell me to shut up and go away because I talk about things you don't want will not really prevent me from sharing my thoughts.

 

If you want to play forum police, then by all means, go right ahead, don't really care...if the HC forum team don't like what I type, they will do what they like.

 

No where have I even advocated for any changes to be brought to HC.

I simply mention and explore ideas of playing the game and the players come out to tell me to shut up...because they literally cannot even abide the ideas...it's kind of sad, really, to see gamers that play such a creativity based game with such low levels of new idea acceptance to the point they cannot even stand people mentioning them without basically saying 'shut up and go play somewhere else.'

[golstat2003]

3 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

 

 

You trying to tell me to shut up and go away because I talk about things you don't want will not really prevent me from sharing my thoughts.

 

If you want to play forum police, then by all means, go right ahead, don't really care...if the HC forum team don't like what I type, they will do what they like.

 

No where have I even advocated for any changes to be brought to HC.

I simply mention and explore ideas of playing the game and the players come out to tell me to shut up...because they literally cannot even abide the ideas...it's kind of sad, really, to see gamers that play such a creativity based game with such low levels of new idea acceptance to the point they cannot even stand people mentioning them without basically saying 'shut up and go play somewhere else.'

Please quote where I've told you to shut up. I'll wait .  . .

 

Also I'm not telling folks to go play somewhere else, I said that just because it's a priority on other servers (which we have YAY!) doesn't mean it should be a priority here.

 

Folks on this forum are allowed to say they disagree that something should be a priority here. You know. .  . like just about every other discussion/suggestion forum on earth. Your mileage may vary. 🤷‍♂️

Edited February 19, 2020 by golstat2003

[Blastit]

1 minute ago, jubakumbi said:

I simply mention and explore ideas of playing the game and the players come out to tell me to shut up...because they literally cannot even abide the ideas...it's kind of sad, really, to see gamers that play such a creativity based game with such low levels of new idea acceptance to the point they cannot even stand people mentioning them without basically saying 'shut up and go play somewhere else.'

 

You don't "simply mention and explore ideas". You intentionally use provocative language. To claim that you're playing the game better in a snide way and finish with "Ya'll have fun now..." is not merely blunt and to the point. It's unpleasant.

 

This is what I mean by nobody respecting you. Any pushback you receive to any ideas you put forth can't be neatly separated from the pushback you receive for your unpleasant presentation, despite what you appear to believe here. I've seen people simply explore ideas and it doesn't look like this. Sure, sometimes other people don't get it and take it personally but if other people respect you then they'll correct those who don't get it.

[Snarky]

This is why we can’t have nice things.  🎭

[jubakumbi]

1 minute ago, Blastit said:

 

You don't "simply mention and explore ideas". You intentionally use provocative language. To claim that you're playing the game better in a snide way and finish with "Ya'll have fun now..." is not merely blunt and to the point. It's unpleasant.

 

This is what I mean by nobody respecting you. Any pushback you receive to any ideas you put forth can't be neatly separated from the pushback you receive for your unpleasant presentation, despite what you appear to believe here. I've seen people simply explore ideas and it doesn't look like this. Sure, sometimes other people don't get it and take it personally but if other people respect you then they'll correct those who don't get it.

I use the same language I would use if we were face to face.

I am well aware my blunt personality and language is unpleasant to some people.

 

Fake nice is unpleasant to me.

Seeing people told that they are not creative enough because they like Homage is unpleasant to me.

Seeing people try to get others banned for charging for AE runs is unpleasant to me.

I could go on, but I am sure you get the idea.

 

People chose how to respond to my 'unpleasant' language, just as I choose how to respond to the things I find objectionable.

You seem to think that I can somehow control the actions of others through words on a screen, if only...

The only power my words have over others is the power those poeple choose to give them.

I am well aware this is a fundamental human vs. human issue and that not everyone agrees with that philosophy.

 

I choose to post opinions about things I want to post opinions, in a manner that I prefer, with little regard for how others choose to take my words, on a forum for a dead game running on rogue servers that only exist because of criminal and immoral actions involving theft of IP and consumer data...I think I have some wiggle room...

 

3 minutes ago, Snarky said:

This is why we can’t have nice things.  🎭

We cannot have 'nice things' because this entire 'thing' is basically a criminal enterprise full of different voices with different outlooks on what is really right and wrong.

[Coyote]

21 hours ago, jubakumbi said:

The mere mention of an idea outside the herd parameters brings out the hate.

 

The mere mention of disagreement with a proposed suggestion that has been considered and not liked many times before brings out the cooler-than-thou comments.

 

Agreeing with the majority merely because it's the majority may deserve snarky comments. But not all majority agreements are done for the sake of the herd.. most are done because, well, most people reason the same way. So they come to the same opinion. Dismissing all popular opinions as groupthink because they are popular is fake coolness.