Worst TF/SF in the game

[tidge]

1 hour ago, VileTerror said:

But -would- the Clockwork King be the type to recruit villains for some scheme?  I mean, seeing as the King kind of has a reality filter up, and has delusions of nobility and righteousness, wouldn't it be against character for the King to essentially recruit mercenary soldiers from a distant land?  Particularly when he seems so self-assured of his own creations'/courts' strength and capabilities?

Oh, I agree... but it could be possible that he's 'recruiting' villains because he wants to lead them into a trap? The Clockwork King (in all dimensions) has more than a few loose gears.

[Snarky]

2 minutes ago, tidge said:

Oh, I agree... but it could be possible that he's 'recruiting' villains because he wants to lead them into a trap? The Clockwork King (in all dimensions) has more than a few loose gears.

I love to hand a beatdown to Clockwork King (Robo ChoMo) in the Synapse. Yes the reference is from Dwayne Johnson's evil invention SNL skit.

[Redlynne]

36 minutes ago, tidge said:

Oh, I agree... but it could be possible that he's 'recruiting' villains because he wants to lead them into a trap? The Clockwork King (in all dimensions) has more than a few loose gears.

Recruiting is the wrong word/term.

USING ... as in manipulating (or double crossing) would be a better notion of how the Clockwork King would "collaborate" with other villains.

 

There is MADNESS to our METHODS ... yeeeesssssssssss ...

[Grouchybeast]

2 hours ago, tidge said:

What would be everyone's thoughts on splitting up the Synapse TF, a la Positron 1 and 2?

 

First Geographically: The simplest would be Part 1 in Steel Canyon/Boomtown and Part 2 in Skyway, but are there better options? See narrative below.

 

Next, what about villains? The Synapse TF is "all Clockwork, all the time"...so would a revamp work some other villains in for part of the TF? I actually like this being somewhat 'self contained' but it might be interesting to figure a way to loop in some other level-appropriate enemies into the arcs. I would veto either Circle of Thorns or Vahzilok because of Positron 1 & 2. Arachnos is always good for some side shenanigans, and it might be fun to stumble across Troll or Lost squatters in either Boomtown or Skyway.

 

Finally, the actual narrative: I've never really grokked how this TF fits into any version of the Clockwork King's story or motivations. It's obviously just a giant monster(TM) story with a LOT of defeat all filler. Would it be possible for Part 1 to be a "Lament for Penny" and Part 2 to be a "Revenge on Blue Steel?", and just give up the "electrical anomaly" angle altogether? Personally, I'd LOVE to have a redside arc where the Rogue Islanders are contacted by the Clockwork King to actually take revenge on Blue Steel. I know that the Clockwork King doesn't really run pure evil, but I think the potential for such a story is there.

I think the revamp of Sister Psyche into Penny Yin was a great model for future TF revamps.  Keep the same main enemy group and AV, radically cut down the number of missions and remove repetitive hunts and time-fillers (SP was 14 missions, PY is 4).  Synapse already has some good maps available with the clockwork factory dressing, and has the GM zone spawn which is a nice touch, so just by cutting out 2/3 of the 15(!!!) missions it would become a much more enjoyable experience.  I mean, this is what Synapse looks like right now:

 

1 - Kill all.
2 - Street sweep.
3 - Talkie.
4 - Kill all.
5 - Kill all.
6 - Kill all.
7 - Patrol
8 - Kill all.
9 - Patrol
10 - Defeat boss.
11 - Talkie.
12 - Hostages.
13 - Defeat boss.
Babbage!
14 - Talkie.
15 - Defeat AV.

 

You could make a good start on a revamp by just taking out missions 3-11 and stitching what's left together in the middle. 

 

(To be fair, I'm pretty easy about TF plots.  This past week I've been duoing TFs, and it's made me realise this is literally the first time that I've actually known what the heck any of the TFs stories were.  When you're playing them you don't get the mission info, and if I'm running a TF I don't like to keep everyone hanging around while I read everything.)

[Sakai]

3 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

I think the revamp of Sister Psyche into Penny Yin was a great model for future TF revamps.  Keep the same main enemy group and AV, radically cut down the number of missions and remove repetitive hunts and time-fillers (SP was 14 missions, PY is 4).  Synapse already has some good maps available with the clockwork factory dressing, and has the GM zone spawn which is a nice touch, so just by cutting out 2/3 of the 15(!!!) missions it would become a much more enjoyable experience.  I mean, this is what Synapse looks like right now:

 

1 - Kill all.
2 - Street sweep.
3 - Talkie.
4 - Kill all.
5 - Kill all.
6 - Kill all.
7 - Patrol
8 - Kill all.
9 - Patrol
10 - Defeat boss.
11 - Talkie.
12 - Hostages.
13 - Defeat 

 

(To be fair, I'm pretty easy about TF plots.  This past week I've been duoing TFs, and it's made me realise this is literally the first time that I've actually known what the heck any of the TFs stories were.  When you're playing them you don't get the mission info, and if I'm running a TF I don't like to keep everyone hanging around while I read everything.)

lol. Right. 

 

I make a habit bow of going back and reading on the Wiki what the hell I just did if I run something with a team. 

[Lines]

4 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

(To be fair, I'm pretty easy about TF plots.  This past week I've been duoing TFs, and it's made me realise this is literally the first time that I've actually known what the heck any of the TFs stories were.  When you're playing them you don't get the mission info, and if I'm running a TF I don't like to keep everyone hanging around while I read everything.)

 

I've been thinking a lot about how CoH could deliver the storytelling in a more accessible way. At the moment, only the team leader has significant access to it and there's an expectation just to skip it.

 

Not settled on anything concrete, but it's fun to think about.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Lines

[Giovanni Valia]

Hands down, the worst TF/SF is Synapse. Low level with limited powers, a LONG TF, as well as being boring and repetitive. Kill clockwork, kill clockwork, KILL CLOCKWORK.

I'm glad I mostly play redside. It gives me more opportunities to get revenge on synapse for putting me through that TF.

[ivanhedgehog]

On 2/20/2020 at 6:17 PM, Troo said:

could be, maybe they count each task as a 'mission'.

 

'The Saga of Faathim - Justin Augustine' has more "missions" but not as long to complete as ' Explorers and Exploiters - Dr. Quaterfield'

I like Dr Q so much I solo'd it

[Sakai]

2 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

I like Dr Q so much I solo'd it

I've been considering that since we got back. Even made a space suit so my brute could survive the hostile environment. 

[ivanhedgehog]

On 2/21/2020 at 8:47 AM, Seigmoraig said:

I was in a Synapse run last night that ran 3 hours 11 minutes at the end screen. We had 3 people just pack up their shit and leave about 30 minutes in, then 1 guy DCed for 2 or 3 missions, luckily he came back and finished it. We finished with 2 Blasters, 1 MM, 1 Sentinel and 1 Dominator. Once most of the people left I set the missions to -1/x5 and we were able to finish without wiping.
All in all, other than the massive timesink it took to do it, it was pretty fun, we had to use actual tactics to clear, notably corner pulling and CC.

Still would class Synapse as the worst TF though

The biggest problem in synapse is the players that act like 3 year olds on a sugar rush. They insist on playing like they are incarnate 50's with a 500 million. build. They will not let the tank gather any agro, they run ahead and refuse to act like they are actually on a team. and it slows them down. a lot. just like the last mission on posi 1 that has the scrapper beeline to the door instead of cleaning and wipes the team. If you dont know how the tf works, maybe listening to the instructions might help. It cant hurt.

[gamingglen]

17 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

The biggest problem in synapse is the players that act like 3 year olds on a sugar rush. 

You mean this is NOT the way to play CoX?

[Machariel]

I actually like the shadow shard task forces as they're the only things that really get you into the shadow shard and they reward skills/abilities that don't come up that often, like coordinating team teleports or really getting value out of fly + afterburner.  Rularuu are dangerous enough to be interesting.  They are long though and I certainly don't run them very frequently.

 

I'd cut missions 4 through 7 out of Synapse. 

[Heraclea]

On 3/1/2020 at 9:13 AM, tidge said:

Next, what about villains? The Synapse TF is "all Clockwork, all the time"...so would a revamp work some other villains in for part of the TF? I actually like this being somewhat 'self contained' but it might be interesting to figure a way to loop in some other level-appropriate enemies into the arcs. I would veto either Circle of Thorns or Vahzilok because of Positron 1 & 2. Arachnos is always good for some side shenanigans, and it might be fun to stumble across Troll or Lost squatters in either Boomtown or Skyway.

 

Finally, the actual narrative: I've never really grokked how this TF fits into any version of the Clockwork King's story or motivations. It's obviously just a giant monster(TM) story with a LOT of defeat all filler. Would it be possible for Part 1 to be a "Lament for Penny" and Part 2 to be a "Revenge on Blue Steel?", and just give up the "electrical anomaly" angle altogether? Personally, I'd LOVE to have a redside arc where the Rogue Islanders are contacted by the Clockwork King to actually take revenge on Blue Steel. I know that the Clockwork King doesn't really run pure evil, but I think the potential for such a story is there.

Making part of it about Blue Steel suggests that it might be possible to work in a Skulls angle.  There are hints about a Skulls/Family relationship in some of the older material that strike me as a dropped narrative thread.  Maybe this could partially resolve that. 

[Chirikiti]

All hero-side ones outside of STF/Khan and maybe Manticore (I have a soft spot for that because it threw me for a loop on my (successful) solo

 

Virgil Tarkoff (low level stuff like this is just tedious)

 

Shadow Shards maybe, depends on team I guess and how much TT have for traveling. Some of the fights are okay

[GetRidOfWires]

1. Abandoned Sewers Trial, hands down the worst.  It’s the only one where you have to do certain things certain ways or it’s a complete waste of time. Half the time no one knows what to do, or you’ve got one player that calls everyone else stupid for not knowing, and everyone quits. It’s not fun at all.

2. LGTF, because you take a fun team all the way through to the end....and can’t finish. It goes against the idea in every other mission and TF in CoH: almost any team can do any content. Another waste of time where everyone quits. Also not fun.

3. “Go kill a bunch of grey cons in a bunch of zones” in Numina is stupid and not fun, but at least people don’t quit in frustration.

 

[Uun]

11 hours ago, GetRidOfWires said:

2. LGTF, because you take a fun team all the way through to the end....and can’t finish. It goes against the idea in every other mission and TF in CoH: almost any team can do any content. Another waste of time where everyone quits. Also not fun.

What? I assume you're talking about the Hami mission. The only way this happens is if the leader starts the TF without checking if somebody has a hold. This is the leader's fault, not the TF.

[Heraclea]

On 3/1/2020 at 4:47 PM, Lines said:

 

I've been thinking a lot about how CoH could deliver the storytelling in a more accessible way. At the moment, only the team leader has significant access to it and there's an expectation just to skip it.

 

Not settled on anything concrete, but it's fun to think about.

This was a problem I tried to solve by putting a fair amount of exposition into patrol, spawn, and NPC chats in my AE stories.   The patrol chats all fire at the beginning now, unfortunately. 

[Heraclea]

1 hour ago, Uun said:

What? I assume you're talking about the Hami mission. The only way this happens is if the leader starts the TF without checking if somebody has a hold. This is the leader's fault, not the TF.

Worst possible case scenario is that people have to make a stop at the Pocket D P2W and pick up the Tech starter power, which is a hold. 

[Sakai]

1 hour ago, Heraclea said:

Worst possible case scenario is that people have to make a stop at the Pocket D P2W and pick up the Tech starter power, which is a hold. 

That's a great idea. 

[cranebump]

Citadel and Synapse at 1 and 1A. 

 

Quarterhell as well. My beard has 3 days growth by the time it’s done.

 

That said, if you have a fun team, any of them can be okay. It’s those “put you’re head down and run like hell through every mission” teams that make the experience suck.

[Tugzug]

I honestly don't find any of the issue 0 & issue 1 TFs to be interesting in the slightest. Positron got a sweet buff and Psyche got conveniently replaced, but the rest leave much to be desired--too many Defeat All and "do the same mission 2-3 times in a row" in those days. Manticore is only helped by the number of ghostable missions, and I actually don't hate Numina TF's street hunt mixup that much.

 

This leaves Synapse and Citadel as the biggest offenders, with the Shadow Shard content not far behind. At least Dr Q gives a monstrous amount of Merits when it gets the weekly, but I would absolutely not complain if any of the aforementioned TFs got the same love Positron did.

 

edit: Another thing that makes the more modern TFs more interesting is dialogue and cutscenes. I don't want BAF level "let's get on with it already" length cutscenes--just something as simple as Romulus' and the Shadow Simalcrum adds some nice scenery chewing to the story.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Tugzug

[Myrmidon]

On 3/1/2020 at 4:16 PM, ivanhedgehog said:

I like Dr Q so much I solo'd it

I highly suggest that anyone wishing to participate in this level of masochism wait until the weekly. The double merits will make the mind numbing experience at least worth something.

[kelika2]

The worst is Numina.  That round the world crap is the worst.

 

Posi got broken up

Synapes is always an amazing source for exp/just killing as long as you built your character right.  ie not taking tough/weave so early

Yin got shortened

Citadel can get annoying but with team teleport stuff its easily 40-60 minutes

Manticore is half kill half skip and was never bad even if you plow through.  PP mogs aside

Numina?  hey lets get you going killing some different enemy groups and now wait lol go around the city rubbing this rock on corpses itll be fun

 

The list can go on but you all done the council island ones, villain short and sweets, etc.