The Broken Brutes Effect (please buff them)

[Solarverse]

2 minutes ago, Sif said:

It's hard to tell who you're actually talking to, but it's Solarverse that said that teams he's on refuse to play at higher than +0:

It's not a strawman if it's literally the argument being made.

A lot of people run content at +0 during almost any TF leading up to Numina. It's not a big secret...

[DR_Mechano]

I thought you were done with this topic Solarverse?

[Solarverse]

Just now, DR_Mechano said:

I thought you were done with this topic Solarverse?

People cant stop quoting me or putting my name in their mouth, or I would. You trying to shut me up by pointing out what I said? I'd tell you what you can go do with yourself with that attempt, but I kind of like being able to post when I like.

[DR_Mechano]

I literally said nothing of the sort. You're putting words in my mouth, that wasn't an attempt to 'stop posting' it was merely question and the chance for you to probably take a breath, relax and stop being on the offensive all the time. Maybe back away for a little while. You're getting awfully upset and aggressive over arguments of difficulty in a video game.

[Solarverse]

8 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

I literally said nothing of the sort. You're putting words in my mouth, that wasn't an attempt to 'stop posting' it was merely question and the chance for you to probably take a breath, relax and stop being on the offensive all the time. Maybe back away for a little while. You're getting awfully upset and aggressive over arguments of difficulty in a video game.

Good advice. You could've just said that to start with. 

[Infinitum]

20 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

People cant stop quoting me or putting my name in their mouth, or I would. You trying to shut me up by pointing out what I said? I'd tell you what you can go do with yourself with that attempt, but I kind of like being able to post when I like.

Sorry I wouldn't put anything that bitter near my mouth.

[Troo]

[Infinitum]

3 hours ago, Solarverse said:

That's not even the part I was talking about...you clearly do not read my posts. It's extremely obvious that you only read one sentence and attack that sentence instead of taking the whole thing into context. I covered your "point" (if you wanna call it that) and you came right behind that thread and acted as though I never said anything about it.

 

Here, I'll hold your hand and put things in to perspective for you...

 

Here, you tell me that basically my point is invalid because of an example of a TF that cannot be ran through like paper. You act as though a mission here, and a mission there, should be enough for people like me who prefer the older mechanics of the game. As if you threw me a bone and had yourself a little *drop the mic* moment or something.

 

Out of one side of your neck, you are completely ignoring the KNOWN power creep we have today...a power creep that everyone on this thread seems to conveniently ignore. Yet, it is widely known that power creep is the reasoning behind MOST content in this game being extremely easy. And don't say it's not widely known, because anyone with half a brain recognizes it.

 

So here we are, your little *drop the mic* statement that you *thought* you had. However, what you failed to recognize is the fact that this was already covered by me when I said, "Now, does that scenario account for every single situation or task force in game? Of course not, this is not what I am trying to say, but what I am trying to say is that this is the case with a good majority of the game's content, all the way from level 1 to level 50."

 

For reference, you can find it here...

 

Pick your mic back up...

 

You need a snickers partner?   lol. 

[DR_Mechano]

5 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Sorry I wouldn't put anything that bitter near my mouth.

Behave! (and I don't mean that in a 'austin powers' way...I mean that in a teacher kind of way)

 

Everyone has stated their opinions. Now I know Solarverse and myself are never going to see eye to eye and probably never going to like each other but even I will admit he has been dogpiled on a bit much in this thread.

 

He has views that a large majority don't agree with and that's fine. Trust me I know what it's like to be the center of a dogpile. My topic on 'calling for transparency' caused me to be dogpiled on by the community because I was a touch worried about things 'behind the scenes' with Homecoming and slightly miffed that I felt like I got what I deemed as a non-answer from the devs (alright fine, they answered but I personally felt like the answer I got wasn't very satisfactory to me...even if it was a very valid answer) on a specific subject.

 

We've basically hit the circular argument section that I pointed out earlier in the topic. Everyone has stated their opinions on difficulty and now it's a shouting match back and forth between two sets of parties, neither of which is reading the others posts and more just shouting.

 

Solarverse wants a specific kind of game. I'm guessing post ED but pre-IOs which would put things at the Issue 6, 7 or 8 territory. This way you'd have access to both CoV and CoH but without IOs (which were bought in with Issue 9) and unfortunately it would take a LOT of legwork to make that kind of server, like genuine classic WoW private server style legwork (which took people many years to actually get vanilla private servers up and running despite starting work in Cataclysm).

 

Also, didn't know this but Issue 9 bought in the Statesman Taskforce...huh...neat...(always thought it came in with CoV in Issue 6). In fact if you want an issue 5 specific server this means the hardest TF in the game is....Shadow Shards TFs. Which I don't remember people being excited to do even back then especially since it awarded just a badge...and that was it...

 

I mean I can't speak for anything pre-issue 6 because I joined with CoV.

[Galaxy Brain]

My advice is to take a step back and evaluate before jumping on forum responses. It lets everyone breath and make better responses all-around. (I'm guilty of this too)

 

Anywho, my 2inf is that given that you can build to solo 4/8 difficulty, this can in theory sour the experience of those teamed with you who cannot do the same. If you can solo literally all content, you could blitz the whole mission and the rest of the team is left twiddling their thumbs in a sense. I don't see many talking about being the non-uber character on a team and it being a bad thing so much as people talking about how things are easy for their uber character.

 

 

[Infinitum]

45 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

Behave! (and I don't mean that in a 'austin powers' way...I mean that in a teacher kind of way)

 

Everyone has stated their opinions. Now I know Solarverse and myself are never going to see eye to eye and probably never going to like each other but even I will admit he has been dogpiled on a bit much in this thread.

 

He has views that a large majority don't agree with and that's fine. Trust me I know what it's like to be the center of a dogpile. My topic on 'calling for transparency' caused me to be dogpiled on by the community because I was a touch worried about things 'behind the scenes' with Homecoming and slightly miffed that I felt like I got what I deemed as a non-answer from the devs (alright fine, they answered but I personally felt like the answer I got wasn't very satisfactory to me...even if it was a very valid answer) on a specific subject.

 

We've basically hit the circular argument section that I pointed out earlier in the topic. Everyone has stated their opinions on difficulty and now it's a shouting match back and forth between two sets of parties, neither of which is reading the others posts and more just shouting.

 

Solarverse wants a specific kind of game. I'm guessing post ED but pre-IOs which would put things at the Issue 6, 7 or 8 territory. This way you'd have access to both CoV and CoH but without IOs (which were bought in with Issue 9) and unfortunately it would take a LOT of legwork to make that kind of server, like genuine classic WoW private server style legwork (which took people many years to actually get vanilla private servers up and running despite starting work in Cataclysm).

 

Also, didn't know this but Issue 9 bought in the Statesman Taskforce...huh...neat...(always thought it came in with CoV in Issue 6). In fact if you want an issue 5 specific server this means the hardest TF in the game is....Shadow Shards TFs. Which I don't remember people being excited to do even back then especially since it awarded just a badge...and that was it...

 

I mean I can't speak for anything pre-issue 6 because I joined with CoV.

I am behaving, I have literally never seen anyone this bitter over a game.

 

How about this, good will good faith offer, would you like to come team with my group Solar?  Maybe we can provide you with excitement you are lacking.

 

I am on the level here, if you are interested look me up @infinitum.

 

Consider the rest of this squashed as far as I'm concerned.

 

I never take the easy road, anyone that knows me in game can confirm that.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Infinitum

[skoryy]

41 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

My advice is to take a step back and evaluate before jumping on forum responses. It lets everyone breath and make better responses all-around. (I'm guilty of this too)

 

Anywho, my 2inf is that given that you can build to solo 4/8 difficulty, this can in theory sour the experience of those teamed with you who cannot do the same. If you can solo literally all content, you could blitz the whole mission and the rest of the team is left twiddling their thumbs in a sense. I don't see many talking about being the non-uber character on a team and it being a bad thing so much as people talking about how things are easy for their uber character.

 

 

Solo 4/8 what, though?  Any decent build can plow through Council or a fire farm, sure. My staff/DA can do Malta, but I have to be careful.  CoT I'm tepid to try.  Arachnos?  Carnies?  Heck, just look up forum for someone wanting Nemmies nerfed.  And even if you can solo,  you can do them all faster with teammates.

[aethereal]

6 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

Brute Max Damage: +700%

Brute Base Damage: .75

 

Stalker Max Damage: +500%

Stalker Base Damage: 1

 

So. Hand a Stalker and a Brute an attack that deals 100 damage. Stalker deals 100, Brute deals 75. Give them both a 200% damage buff. Brute is now up to 150 while the Stalker is throwing 200.

 

At max values that is 650 damage for the Brute and 600 damage for the Stalker. 

 

The "Big Difference" is that the Brute has Fury. So they can build up a maximum of 200% extra damage without using build up or other damage buffing mechanics. But let's face it, it's pretty hard to maintain more than 70% or so. So they can generally maintain 225 points of damage from that 100 damage attack that the Stalker is also throwing... But the more buffs on the team the closer to equal they get.

 

Only the Stalker also gets Crits. And guaranteed crits from Stealth. And Assassin Strike to frontload their overall DPS pretty hard. And now they've got Assassin's Opportunity to make it even -more- powerful. And also Placates for an extra crit on top.

 

Fact is, Stalkers and Brutes are at similar overall performance. The Brute edges them out on baseline survivability (outside IOs, obviously) but the Brute also has to constantly take shots to the face to maintain that damage bonus. And yeah the Brute has more AoE than the Stalker does (presuming identical power set selections) but the ST damage tends to be -way- bigger and on more important targets (Bosses)

 

 

You're overlooking normal enhancements, which shift things somewhat.

 

A stalker with a 100 damage base attack almost certainly enhances it to +95% damage, so 195.

 

A brute, if he does that, gets to 146.25.  Now let's assume 80 fury, so that's a further 160% damage (of the base 75), leading us to:  266.25.

 

If a stalker is on an 8 person team, his basic crit chance pretty exactly closes the difference between 195 and 266.25, so then the auto-crits from hide and the proc hide and the superior build-up uptime (build up is also better for Stalkers than Brutes) and the presence of his really high-damage Assassin's STrike certainly causes the stalker to pull ahead.  Solo, it's a bit more of a matter of whether the stalker can actually effectively broker the auto-crits (etc), or whether he leaves a lot of that on the table.

Edited February 24, 2020 by aethereal

[Haijinx]

Think you may be double adding.

 

At the cap, its the cap.  Your personal buff value influences how easy it is to get to the cap, but not the final result.

 

So I think Steampunkette is correct. 

 

To put it another way.  You have two level 50 MA scrappers one has 95% dam enhancement, the other only empty slots.   If they are both buffed to the cap, and each hits Crane Kick those kicks will do the same damage. 

 

 

 

 

[Steampunkette]

I'm 90% sure Hajinx has got it right... but enhancements don't really shift it up that much even if they're -not- included in the maximum damage buff.

 

Brutes have a lower baseline damage but a greater buff ability up to a maximum of 200% through Fury. They get to maintain higher constant damage all things being equal. Stalkers, on the other hand, are all about spikes that level out, over time.

 

Whether they've got enhancements giving them 30% or 90% damage buff, the baseline difference between 0.75 and 1.0 is going to be a big determining factor. It's only once the Brute gets more total damage buff (whether fury, set bonuses, enhancement bonuses, or Fortitude) than the stalker that their damage pulls ahead... and then critspiking and assassin's strike bring things back toward (if not entirely into) parity.

 

Brutes aren't inherently overpowered compared to Stalkers or Scrappers. But they can -feel- overpowered because they stand there taking all the hits while dishing out high damage. Their team role 'Feels' like they're a Tank rather than a DPS, and compared to Tankers they bring the ruckus.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Steampunkette

[Burnt Toast]

On 2/23/2020 at 3:57 PM, Solarverse said:

Man, you really have shit screwed up. Did you make that up? Have you not even read the countless threads on these boards about how players are feeling unneeded because...well...they aren't needed? 

 

Go play a Healer from level 1 to 50, join teams, start teams...and watch how if you crank the difficulty up past +0, people whine about it and drop your team. Join a team and watch how everyone plows through +0 mobs....you are not needed...not even a little bit. 

 

At the end of the Task Force or whatever, watch these same players "stroke their epeens" by saying things like, "Man, we rocked them out!" ...really? At +0?

 

It doesn't get any better at high level either. Once these players are decked out in IOed out set bonus builds, only then will they crank up the difficulty...which again, a Healer or Troller is next to useless.

 

Very few content in this game drives a team to seek out Defenders and Trollers. And I for one do not find playing these same missions over and over just to feel like a contribution to the team. Epeen indeed, dude. 

 

Some of us would like to play a Controller or a Defender without feeling utterly useless...and join regular teams...not chase the same few challenging missions over and over again, just to feel challenged...needed, appreciated. 

 

The fact you say we want a bigger challenge to stroke our epeens is just priceless. When the fact is just the opposite. You about made me spit my Big Red on myself when I read that crap.

 

Even worse, I am not here trying to change a damn thing about this game, in fact I am saying that in order to get the type of game WE crave, there would need to be a Vanilla server put together. So while you are over here thinking that we just want to go stroke our epeens, you might want to have a look in the mirror and recognize your own epeen not only in game, but also on this thread.

Healer.... LOLZ. This isn't WoW. Defenders are modifiers that when played correctly (not as a healer) can make a team amazing. I refuse to pay with "healers" (note that doesn't mean Emp defenders) - healers are people who rock the aura and contribute very little via their secondary powers or their other primary powers (buffs/debuffs). 

 

Me and a bunch of friends regularly start/run PUGS on +3 or +4 at all levels. 99.9% of the content in this game does not require any AT. I don't ever seek specific AT's for PUGS/TFs/Trials. (The rare exception is Barracuda SF where you need some -regen or the LGTF where ya need some holds/ranged/melee).

 

Maybe you just play with crappy players? If people don't wanna play at above +0 - it is their loss - look for other players. Join global groups, discords, a SG that runs harder content. 

 

And yes I have an Empathy Defender (Emp/Nrg) who is level 50 (Fixxer)... he is not a healer though.. he is a Defender - he utilizes his primary and secondary powers to defend teammates. 

[Blackfeather]

Just now, Burnt Toast said:

Healer.... LOLZ. This isn't WoW. Defenders are modifiers that when played correctly (not as a healer) can make a team amazing. I refuse to pay with "healers" (note that doesn't mean Emp defenders) - healers are people who rock the aura and contribute very little via their secondary powers or their other primary powers (buffs/debuffs). 

 

Me and a bunch of friends regularly start/run PUGS on +3 or +4 at all levels. 99.9% of the content in this game does not require any AT. I don't ever seek specific AT's for PUGS/TFs/Trials. (The rare exception is Barracuda SF where you need some -regen or the LGTF where ya need some holds/ranged/melee).

 

Maybe you just play with crappy players? If people don't wanna play at above +0 - it is their loss - look for other players. Join global groups, discords, a SG that runs harder content. 

 

And yes I have an Empathy Defender (Emp/Nrg) who is level 50 (Fixxer)... he is not a healer though.. he is a Defender - he utilizes his primary and secondary powers to defend teammates. 

Agreed - there are powers that can heal, but there isn't a dedicated "healer" role in CoX.

[Burnt Toast]

2 minutes ago, Blackfeather said:

Agreed - there are powers that can heal, but there isn't a dedicated "healer" role in CoX.

Unfortunately I have seen people create "Healers" and I refuse to play with them... Empathy + Medicine Pool + Sorcery (Spirit Ward)... and their tier 1 secondary attack. Even ran into one who had all this PLUS the temporary powers to rez and heal. The entire mission they had healing aura on auto and did nothing but heal... no buffs. So when people say "I'm a healer..." I just shake my head and lose interest in teaming with them. 

[Dark Current]

So if this complaint about the game being too easy keeps coming up then why do others ignore it and shout the person down?

 

This is a perilous response.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

18 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Rumor? I was there... I speak from experience, not rumor...

Oh am I now? Hmmmm...let's see...

So now I'm a liar? You act as though Fire Tanks were running rampant al over the game. Very rarely did I run into a Fire Tank who just took it upon himself and herded maps like no tomorrow. Most of them asked before doing so...and not every Tank was a herding Tank...in fact, most players did not roll Fire Tanks unless they intended to do one thing with it...farm...and even then, they were only good at herding one thing...Smashing Lethal damage mobs. You put those bad boys against anything other than Fire/Smashing or Lethal and they crumpled without a proper team. Period. Your point is meaningless in this discussion because you are speaking of one type of Tank under a controlled environment., thus making your point absolutely pointless.

Soloed GM's eh? Man, I would have loved to see videos of that! And you called me a liar?

Again, controlled environments, same case as the Fire Tanks....and they weren't herding anything...they were going from mob to mob, one mob at a time, never more than one mob. Again, a very illogical point of view that has absolutely nothing to do with anything in this discussion.

Hahahahaha, what!?!? Did you play the same game as me???  You fail to remember, that a Blaster 6 slotted with damage, wasn't doing crap because of the limitations of a Blaster. How many times did a Blaster run into a mob before the Tank had aggro and that Blaster face planted? Blasters in those days learned very quickly to stop trying to Tank...and when Tanks seen this type of behavior from a Blaster, the Tank would turn off his Taunt aura and let the Blaster die...it was fricken hilarious! And here you are, acting like players were gods in those days! Man, this is just too rich!

Which hardly made anyone OP, and by the way? You can get Perma Hasten now...

And guess what?!?! Healers and Kins and anything else that granted an endurance buff was desired on your teams to help with that issue! Thank you for making my point for me!

Huh? Again, I don't think we played the same game. There was very much a desire and demand for trinity teams in this game, it was like this by its very design! The game was actually designed this way! This is why we had constant threads of players complaining that it was too hard to solo unless they played a Scrapper! Seriously, did you even play the same game as me? Or are you just following the rest of the crowd and trying to jump on their band wagon?

If you say so...

Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic.

Which server did you play on back on live? I mained Virtue but also had toons on Freedom the main meta game server. while its true on freedom many did play wowtard style that was very much not the case on Virtue.

 

And if you want to say you fall under the category of liar ok fine by me I didnt say you were specifically but well if the way I phrased that bothered you and made you feel like it was applicable well I cant control how you feel.

 

And maybe you missed that I was there,? That I played every single possible blaster combo to cap or near cap in the old lvl 40 cap days, and as a bloody 1 month newb I and another newb blaster duoed clamor on a sister psyche after the rest of the team had given up. Wasnt easy, a couple newbs but we took down an AV, Before year one was up plenty had put out guides on solo av and gm killer builds, and almost all of them were for offenders.

 

Tank monsters like that didnt need to ask teams because they advertised for teams to do just that, or were doing it at the direction of their SG. Same with the fire kin trollers. And being able to break the game in a controlled enviroment is exactly what lead to numerous changes in the game including the heavy nerfing of AE rewards because humans going to human and exploit for any advantage they can.

 

My blasters reliably soloed their way to cap often, rarely in Debt after my first blaster. Long before stalkers I learned the art of the stealth blaster who could snipe or nuke mobs to ash with impunity and had phase shift to gtfo of trouble if something nasty just refused to go down quick. BTW what you call hilarious is actually under the mantle of griefing. A player choosing to create a situation that kills another player off only qualifies as that. Tanks tanking do not get to choose not to tank suddenly and not be called out as bad gamers, bad players, and unworthy of a slot on a team.  That is of course part of wowtardism though the idea a tank is always in charge and gets to control how the rest of the team plays by not doing their job, same as healers in wow and similar games will with hold heals to dictate how others play. Both reasons why we in CoH have pretty much always loathed the trinity even yes back in year one at least on Virtue were RP and concept along with just having fun together was the priority.

 

And ope every time I lead a TF I never once asked for specific ATs, nor did I see many that did on TFs back then even in year one. Sure SGs often had static teams, but puggers we always have beena  work with what we can get type of approach and we still always managed to get every TF done and usually in a  timely manner.

 

BTW just an FYI but the only herd follower I see here is you following the trinity herd. Go play WoW or one of the many EQ clones for that kind of play if you crave it so very badly.

 

Because right now your acting far more berkish then this silly ol berk and that is just not a good thing.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

2 minutes ago, Dark Current said:

So if this complaint about the game being too easy keeps coming up then why do others ignore it and shout the person down?

 

This is a perilous response.

Because its not too easy, we who want it easy choose to do so by investing a very high degree into a character and its build to negate the challenge, That is not an accident, it is by design and beloved by likely the majority of the coh playerbase.

 

Because challenge is easy to find, the idea that their should be challenge for the very top end builds when their power factor is many times greater then a baseline build is the height of absurd selfishness as there is no reason to make content for an extreme minority. When games make the mistake of doing that it bleeds players.

 

A good example is DDO aka Dungeons and Dragons Online. even though on average only about 5% of their player base every partook of raiding, they kept adding raids, and putting the best loot in them. Creating a huge power divide between raiders and non raiders, and then kept balancing content around the power of those top end raid builds. So now days the game is a ghost town, supported by P2W whales and hard core raid guilds, and if your not into those things expect to play the normal content solo and struggle like no tomorrow if you dont drop the cash.

 

CoH has always been mainly the game of choice for the casual, the fun time gamer, and amazing enough the RPer, as no other MMO Ive ever played had an active degree of RP to compare with virtue and now everlasting. If people want to play at a level that stressed their builds and tests their gamer reflexes then there are places they can go to do that. I know very few who solo +4X8 council mishes who also willingly go out to the shadow shard to face ruls/wisps/ and storm els in even smaller groups lightly. Any mechanic that actually causes a challenge gets labeled an annoyance by such players and they call to have it nerfed because challenge is fine, for others, just not for their superman.

[VileTerror]

Also applicable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugg4_2O7xe8

 

WARNING:  Jim Sterling can be annoying in the way he presents his information.   . . . ok.  Jim Sterling -is- annoying in the way he does stuff.  BUT the points he brings up in his latest video (linked above), as well as a series of past videos, touches upon this subject of difficulty and player preference.

 

Most of the community has already agreed in other threads and discussions that -optional- difficulty increases are a fair proposal.  But any time a thread starts with the premise of "the game's too easy, so change everything," it provokes a LOT of bile.  Not that toxicity is ever justified . . . but the way threads that call for sweeping changes to satisfy statistical outliers REALLY rubs people the wrong way.

[Solarverse]

I'll bet everyone in this thread is thinking after reading that, "Please don't respond Solar...I know that's got to be burning to not respond...just please, let it go, man."

 

Don't worry...I won't.

[Myrmidon]

On 2/23/2020 at 9:10 PM, Tyrannical said:

Today we witness Brute Mains in their natural habitat; the 'pls buff' thread. They are extremely territorial creatures that distrust one another, and are prone to hostility at the slightest provocation, often fighting over mere scraps of logic that are precious sustenance for their arguments.

 

In the event that one 'Alpha' Brute Main challenges another, a battle will ensue for several posts as a fight for domination. This fight can last for days and often there is no clear victor, and both Alphas retreat to their lair to lick their wounds ready for the next pointless spat when a new thread is inevitably created.

 

Brute Mains can easily be stunned if they are presented with an ultimatum; play actual challenging content. This paralyzing attack on their ego is enough to leave them confused and often they back away from such a challenge, afraid to surrender their position.

 

It is rare for a Brute Main to coexist with other players, as their need to be the apex predator encourages them to attack Tankers and Scrappers on sight, thinking them as unwelcome competition in their game. Defenders and Controllers are easy prey for these beasts, driving them out of their teams and into the wilds.

 

It is also rare to see a Brute Main domesticated, as their abandonment of sensibility only deters other players from adopting them into their pack, fearing that they will continue to bitch and whine even when they are presented with small buffs to their performance, and often feigning death cries when they are needed to be nerfed.

 

So remember, if you see a Brute Main in the wild, it's best to leave it well alone, and hope that it doesn't drag you into one of it's inane arguments.

 

Thank you for that Wild Kingdom flashback.

[RCU7115]

On 2/23/2020 at 2:57 PM, Solarverse said:

Man, you really have shit screwed up. Did you make that up? Have you not even read the countless threads on these boards about how players are feeling unneeded because...well...they aren't needed? 

 

Go play a Healer from level 1 to 50, join teams, start teams...and watch how if you crank the difficulty up past +0, people whine about it and drop your team. Join a team and watch how everyone plows through +0 mobs....you are not needed...not even a little bit. 

 

At the end of the Task Force or whatever, watch these same players "stroke their epeens" by saying things like, "Man, we rocked them out!" ...really? At +0?

 

It doesn't get any better at high level either. Once these players are decked out in IOed out set bonus builds, only then will they crank up the difficulty...which again, a Healer or Troller is next to useless.

 

Very few content in this game drives a team to seek out Defenders and Trollers. And I for one do not find playing these same missions over and over just to feel like a contribution to the team. Epeen indeed, dude. 

 

Some of us would like to play a Controller or a Defender without feeling utterly useless...and join regular teams...not chase the same few challenging missions over and over again, just to feel challenged...needed, appreciated. 

 

The fact you say we want a bigger challenge to stroke our epeens is just priceless. When the fact is just the opposite. You about made me spit my Big Red on myself when I read that crap.

 

Even worse, I am not here trying to change a damn thing about this game, in fact I am saying that in order to get the type of game WE crave, there would need to be a Vanilla server put together. So while you are over here thinking that we just want to go stroke our epeens, you might want to have a look in the mirror and recognize your own epeen not only in game, but also on this thread.

Um, what's an Epeen ??