Branching Power Picks

[Peacemoon]

4 hours ago, RialVestro said:

Um… you started to reply to me but I think you got off track and forgot what your point was at some point while writing this.

 

ANYWAY... there's no evidence that an energy discharge is any more or less lethal than a spray of bullets mainly because such a weapon doesn't actually exist.

 

I don't really think is it more or less lethal is really the only issue though. I mean a spray of bullets isn't any more or less lethal than an arrow either. There are other factors to consider.

 

Reload time... which isn't really an issue in a game where everyone always for some reason has unlimited ammo and never needs to reload

How much ammo you can use without reloading... see above.

 

Firing time, how long it takes to shoot again after you've just fired off a shot.

 

How many targets you can hit with a single shot. And this one is going to matter the most when you're talking about energy discharge vs. bullets. Bullets being physical objects are bound by the limitations of momentum meaning no matter how fast the bullet is moving when it leave the gun it will inevitably lose momentum after it hits it's first target and the next target and so on until it eventually stops moving entirely. An energy weapon could keep going and going in a straight line potentially without losing any momentum killing way more targets with a single shot than a bullet could.

 

It's also much harder to trace where the shot originated from. You can usually tell what kind of weapon was used to commit a crime by looking at the bullets left at the scene. But if it's an energy weapon there's no physical evidence left behind that can be used to trace what kind of weapon was used. I mean maybe... MAYBE you could analize the scorch marks and try to judge how much power the weapon must of generated to leave those specific types of marks... but if the weapons also have adjustable power settings so they're not always going to use the same amount of power even if you're using the same weapon I doubt that could really help you narrow down exactly what type of gun was used if every energy weapon leaves behind the exact same evidence. 

 

Oh look scorch marks, an energy weapon did this... Yes we know, there's hundreds of different energy weapons out on the market that's really not helpful.

 

Guns usually only accept one specific sized bullet and trying to put the wrong ammo in a gun could potentially result in the gun misfiring or exploding in your hand. So if you know exactly what type of bullets were used then you also know exactly what type of gun was used... or can at least narrow down the number of possibilities.

You posted that you didn’t understand why people still used archery/guns in a world where beam rifles exist and you couldn’t bring yourself to play such characters. I just illustrated why you are mistaken.

[macskull]

7 hours ago, kiramon said:

A fine change. 
 

hasten is silly and should be removed. Has been since 6 slotted recharge. 
Bake in its recharge into base recharge speed and call it a day. 

That's actually a massive global buff to every single character so if your argument is coming from a place of "Hasten is too good!" your argument makes no sense.

[kiramon]

5 hours ago, macskull said:

That's actually a massive global buff to every single character so if your argument is coming from a place of "Hasten is too good!" your argument makes no sense.

Because it gives them all a lovely power slot for free.

 

if you don’t understand why making hasten baseline, much like the fitness pool, is healthy, you’re missing the point 

[Vanden]

22 minutes ago, kiramon said:

Because it gives them all a lovely power slot for free.

 

if you don’t understand why making hasten baseline, much like the fitness pool, is healthy, you’re missing the point 

You can also get that power slot by just not taking Hasten. Try it some time! You can actually still play the game without it!

[Reiska]

The cottage rule was also only ever an ideal and a guideline, not a rule etched in stone - the Paragon devs were free to "break" it if was deemed necessary to do so for the health of the game, and indeed as pointed out earlier in this thread there's at least one instance where Paragon did (the change to Blaster Defiance in issue 11 was a pretty radical change that was quite controversial at the time) and one instance where Homecoming arguably did as well (replacing Tanker's Bruising with increased base damage).  

 

That's the point of the cottage rule, though - to attempt all other solutions first *before* you throw up your hands and radically change a powerset's core functionality.  Assault Rifle and Regen, the two main sets mentioned in this thread, both can be fixed without violating the cottage rule; in AR's case, as others have mentioned you can upgrade Beanbag's damage into a tier 3 blast without removing the hold functionality.  The lack of Aim is more difficult to deal with; more on this in a moment.

 

In Regen's case, the solution that sticks out to me would be to cut the regen amount on Instant Healing by some factor, return it to being a toggle, and adding the Sentinel version's absorb-over-time to it.  Or you could add it to Integration instead and leave Instant Healing as it currently is.  Or you could even add an absorb burst to Reconstruction or Dull Pain.  None of these ideas break the cottage rule.

 

On 4/29/2020 at 5:16 PM, macskull said:

Your premise is flawed from the start - AR doesn't need Aim, there are several other ranged damage sets that don't have it, and it's entirely within the realm of possibility to add an Aim-like effect to an already-existing power in the set.

Now to come back to this.  In fairness, the only other ranged damage set without Aim or a differently named power that has the same actual function is Dual Pistols, which is also widely regarded as a subpar set for the same reason.  So it's pretty clear to me that lacking Aim is considered to be a pretty serious deficit for blast sets when 11/13 have it or something substantially similar.  (10 of those sets have exactly it in function; Water Blast's Tidal Forces has half the usual +damage but the +tohit portion is intact; Psionic Blast and Sonic Attack have the effect under different names in Psychic Focus and Amplify, respectively.)  It's not evidently clear where you could slot the effect into Assault Rifle without a cottage rule violation, though - maybe add a lesser tohit/damage buff to Sniper Rifle in the style of Claws/Follow Up?

[Naraka]

 

11 hours ago, RialVestro said:

I never said I can't bring myself to play such characters. I just said they weren't realistically practical in combat when a more powerful weapon exists.

 

I can't bring myself to play Assault Riffle from a gaming perspective because as the OP stated the set has not aged well.

 

Archery makes no sense realistically but works perfectly fine in this weird fictional world where medieval weaponry works just as well as advanced sci-fi laser guns. 

 

I mean this is a world where you CAN take a sword to a gun fight and win.

 

I only pointed it out because I don't get why the OP is calling Archery the better Assault Rifle instead of Beam Rifle being the better Assault Rifle... you know comparing one rifle to another in a way that would actually make sense to say this a better rifle than comparing to something that is NOT rifle AT ALL and saying this NOT A RIFLE is a better rifle than this ACTUAL RIFLE.

 

If you want a character to have a rifle your options are Assault or Beam. Not Assault or Archery. You're going to pick Archery if you want a Green Arrow/Hawkeye/Manticore type character but if your concept is for a guy with a riffle.... Archery is not a rifle.

 

It really makes no sense why the OP is calling Archery a better Assault Rifle. Beam Rifle would make so much more sense to use for this comparison here. 

Taking in the context of the OP, it's plain to see the comparison they made was the function, not the aesthetics.

 

Archery is a mostly lethal blast set with an original crashless nuke that has a smattering of fire damage.

 

Assault Rifle is a mostly lethal blast set with an original crashless nuke that has a bit more than a smattering of fire damage.

 

Beam Rifle has various differences like damage type, debuffs and mechanics that separate it from most other blast sets, even Energy Blast or Electric Blast.

[CaptainSalerno]

In my opinion branching is a very good idea. It would allow drastic changes to existing powersets while allowing people who have already rolled their toons to keep them in the way they like. I wanna share my personal view on the whole OP/Subpar/unplayable powerset discussion. I believe the most important thing in CoH is being able to build a character according to your fantasy. In order for this to be possible, all power sets must be equally powerful and enjoyable. Of course you cannot achieve complete equality, so better risk a powerset to be OP, rather than be subpar, since it is not a competitive game. For me is frustrating that a powerset like regeneration, that most people would like to play after wolverine or deadpool, is subpar while more exotic  ones like bio armor or radiotion armor are much more effective. The risk I see is the the oldest but more iconic ones (SS, INV, Regen) to become more and more obsolete while new exotic powersets become the new meta. I hope I was able to explain my opinion clearly enough :-).

[Greycat]

12 hours ago, Reiska said:

The cottage rule was also only ever an ideal and a guideline, not a rule etched in stone - the Paragon devs were free to "break" it if was deemed necessary to do so for the health of the game, and indeed as pointed out earlier in this thread there's at least one instance where Paragon did (the change to Blaster Defiance in issue 11 was a pretty radical change that was quite controversial at the time) and one instance where Homecoming arguably did as well (replacing Tanker's Bruising with increased base damage). 

There's another point where it was broken - but that didn't make it to live, as the devs decided they *liked* not being tarred and feathered.

 

On live, they were initially going to make changes to "unused" or "underused" powers in the Patron pools - outright replacing one power with another. Player pushback when it dropped on beta was *so* hard that they worked out how to make the pools hold five powers instead.

[DougGraves]

19 hours ago, macskull said:

That's actually a massive global buff to every single character so if your argument is coming from a place of "Hasten is too good!" your argument makes no sense.

 

There are two basic problems with CoX and every MMO.  Power disparity between player characters and their enemies and power disparity between player characters.

 

The game is ridiculously easy at higher levels because characters get IOs, epic power pools, etc.  You can adjust that by making enemies +4 but even at max difficulty the game is ridiculously easy for any AT to solo content meant for full teams. 

 

You could adjust the game to make enemies tougher.  At level 30 starting making all of the enemies have more hit points, do more damage, have higher accuracy, etc.  The problem is when you have disparity between player characters.  a level 40 with IO sets is vastly more powerful than one without.  If you make the game hard for a character with IO sets it may be impossible for one without them.

 

Hasten is overpowered.  It is considered essentially for meta builds.  That means there is a power disparity between characters who take and those who do not.  That makes it hard to balance game difficulty.  So either remove hasten, nerf it, or give it to everyone - all 3 remove the power disparity.

[Twisted Toon]

23 hours ago, kiramon said:

Because it gives them all a lovely power slot for free.

 

if you don’t understand why making hasten baseline, much like the fitness pool, is healthy, you’re missing the point 

I was against the Fitness pool being made inherent.

I didn't think that just because a majority of the players had the mistaken belief that Stamina was a mandatory power That the rest of us had to have it as well.

Out of well over 50 characters, I had 2 that had Stamina before it was made inherent. The rest of them didn't need it to stay competitive.

Not even my level 50 Illusion/Force Field Controller who tanked for teams, and juggled multiple bosses (quite literally, I might add) had Stamina, and he had Hasten on Auto.

If you were willing to give up 3 other power choices in order to get Stamina, then more power (or Endurance recovery) to you. Not everyone min/maxes their characters to the Nth degree.

In fact, the majority of the characters I have now don't slot Stamina.

 

Same goes for Hasten. If you feel you need Hasten, then sacrifice the power choice to the deity of Speed and be done with it.

 

I get really irritated at people who want powers and sets like that made inherent so they can have the Ultimate Super God Mode build. WTH do you think the Incarnate stuff is for?

[kiramon]

59 minutes ago, Twisted Toon said:

I was against the Fitness pool being made inherent.

I didn't think that just because a majority of the players had the mistaken belief that Stamina was a mandatory power That the rest of us had to have it as well.

Out of well over 50 characters, I had 2 that had Stamina before it was made inherent. The rest of them didn't need it to stay competitive.

Not even my level 50 Illusion/Force Field Controller who tanked for teams, and juggled multiple bosses (quite literally, I might add) had Stamina, and he had Hasten on Auto.

If you were willing to give up 3 other power choices in order to get Stamina, then more power (or Endurance recovery) to you. Not everyone min/maxes their characters to the Nth degree.

In fact, the majority of the characters I have now don't slot Stamina.

 

Same goes for Hasten. If you feel you need Hasten, then sacrifice the power choice to the deity of Speed and be done with it.

 

I get really irritated at people who want powers and sets like that made inherent so they can have the Ultimate Super God Mode build. WTH do you think the Incarnate stuff is for?

Nobody wants god mode in their super hero mmo.

 

but “unfun” nearly mandatory (your build is probably worse for not having hasten than if it had hasten, by the way) powers that are picked “for the free slot” really shouldn’t exist. 
 

just ask the doms who have to have macros for auto hasten and auto domination,.. lol 

[Lines]

4 hours ago, kiramon said:

Nobody wants god mode in their super hero mmo.

 

but “unfun” nearly mandatory (your build is probably worse for not having hasten than if it had hasten, by the way) powers that are picked “for the free slot” really shouldn’t exist. 
 

just ask the doms who have to have macros for auto hasten and auto domination,.. lol 

 

The massive performance boost hasten gives you comes with a cost of a power pick, a pool power and often your autopower.

 

That's a fair payoff, I think. Don't pick it if that's too much of a cost.

 

I don't often pick hasten unless either I'm really trying to perma something or have the power slot going spare. It rarely feels like it does anything but make my characters go from overpowered to a smidge more overpowered.

 

And I'm paying enough of a tiny modicum of attention on my Doms to click domination when it lights up, no macro needed. I don't want the game to play itself for me.

 

 

For the topic, I think every powerset having mutually exclusive power picks would be the coolest damn thing in the world. But that may be a CoH2 kinda idea.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Lines

[Luminara]

On 4/29/2020 at 12:09 PM, Neogumbercules said:

Archery ... some exotic damage typing

 

Archery is almost all lethal.  A smidgeon of smashing (half of Explosive Arrow's damage, and Stunning Shot), a dash of fire (Blazing Arrow's DoT), everything else lethal.  There's nothing exotic, or even notably special, about Archery's damage type.

 

You want specific selections within powersets, which would be comparatively easy to implement via hidden powerset pools which become visible when predefined milestones are reached.  The difficulty lies in determining those milestones, and creating the powers for the hidden pools.  How you envision this working is the deciding factor for feasibility.  Does every power branch (split to two selections), and every selection within a branch continue the trend (in which case, every powerset would need... 257 powers), or do specific powers offer an alternative?

 

If your goal is the former, the basic math of of the situation moves it firmly into the "impossible" category.  You're looking at creating several thousand new powers, even if you recycle powers from every other set, and corresponding animations.  A massive development studio with hundreds of dedicated employees might be able to pull it off inside of a decade.  A handful of people working on it in their free time... we'll have a colony on Mars before they reach the halfway point.  Even of you homogenized every powerset by giving them exactly the same powers and varying the animations slightly, it would still take a prohibitively long time.

 

If your goal is the latter, it already exists.  Power pools.  Granted, pool options aren't always complementary to our character concepts, or specifically usable in regard to our previously selected powers, but they still serve the purpose of offering a branching option.  The choice to utilize that option, or not, is always available (within the existing limitations on character development, such as character level, or having a maximum of four pools open).  IOs (specifically procs and set bonuses) further expand the existing branching structure.  Obviously, the existing pools and IOs don't plug every hole in every set, or satisfy every individual's expectations, but the system works for the majority of players.

 

It's also worth noting that more branches, power pools, are always possible.  In fact, there were several unrealized pools under development when the original servers were shuttered, and which the HC team has been working toward implementing.  If you have some ideas for new pools, there's a forum for suggestions.

[Luminara]

16 hours ago, DougGraves said:

 

There are two basic problems with CoX and every MMO.  Power disparity between player characters and their enemies and power disparity between player characters.

 

The game is ridiculously easy at higher levels because characters get IOs, epic power pools, etc.  You can adjust that by making enemies +4 but even at max difficulty the game is ridiculously easy for any AT to solo content meant for full teams. 

 

You could adjust the game to make enemies tougher.  At level 30 starting making all of the enemies have more hit points, do more damage, have higher accuracy, etc.  The problem is when you have disparity between player characters.  a level 40 with IO sets is vastly more powerful than one without.  If you make the game hard for a character with IO sets it may be impossible for one without them.

 

Hasten is overpowered.  It is considered essentially for meta builds.  That means there is a power disparity between characters who take and those who do not.  That makes it hard to balance game difficulty.  So either remove hasten, nerf it, or give it to everyone - all 3 remove the power disparity.

 

Hasten isn't overpowered, nor is it a problem.  It may have been both early in the game's life, but the design and implementation of IO sets altered the situation.  With minimal investment and no sacrifice, one can achieve Hasten-level global recharge bonuses via IO sets.  Frankenslotting requires even less investment and can maximize the potential of every aspect of every power.  Combining both approaches leads to better yields than Hasten alone could ever achieve.  One could argue that Hasten in concert with global recharge bonuses from IOs and sets is a problem, but realistically, the threshold for useful +Recharge is lower than most people realize.  Most of the "work" is accomplished through the use of attack chains, not powers with long recharge times, and an efficient attack chain uninterrupted by recharge limitations is easy to develop.  Continually escalated global recharge buffs beyond attack chain breakpoints is a unicorn which many chase, not realizing that they're hindering themselves in the process, and as such, is more often than not detrimental, not beneficial.  And I say that from the perspective of a die-hard TA player with an unhealthy adoration of Oil Slick Arrow.

 

The problems are: stinkers in sets which few people like, or can find a use for, or which are viewed as underwhelming in comparison to other options (such as pool powers); limited options within existing pools which also fit character concepts and feel rewarding to use; and poor, outdated critter design.

 

The first two problems have always existed, and likely always will.  Revisions to existing powers have always been controversial, and new pools aren't guaranteed to fill holes in sets.  Hasten is selected more often than not simply because the trade-off is "crap power, or something which improves non-crap powers".  Removing it doesn't actually resolve the underlying issue of lack of palatable, thematic or useful alternatives within sets or pools.  Nerfing it wouldn't make it any less attractive when compared to existing "bad" powers within sets.  And granting it as an automatic would have the same impact as removing it, that being depriving players of an alternative to a "bad" power.

 

The other problem, that of general "overpoweredness" at max level with fully realized dream builds, can actually be attributed to poor critter design.  The standard MMO enemy is a bullet sponge.  The higher the level, and/or more unique the encounter, the spongier the enemy.  That is the problem.  In the end, regardless of level, IOs, Hasten, or any other choice, it always comes down to the fact that we're just filling one sponge and moving on to the next sponge.  Adding, removing, nerfing or automatically granting any power will never resolve this.  A different approach is required, one which Co* is, in my experience, uniquely suited to address.  Co* critters weren't designed poorly because there were few or no other options, they were designed poorly because the design fit the existing model for MMOs and player expectations.  But whereas other MMOs are, by nature of their underlying systems, limited to bullet sponges with occasional alterations, Co* has built-in tools to create more unique and interesting encounters.  Map-specific buffs and debuffs, and pseudo-pets.

 

We could, for example, create an encounter in which the critters have very low HP, but can only be damaged after specific events (triggering a glowie, or pulling the critters into a certain area).  We could create missions in which certain powers are disabled, not by level, but via specificity (disabling AoEs, locking out T7 powers while leaving every other tier available, mez only or no mez, etc).  We could create environments with specific effects (swimming via a modified Fly field in an underwater map, specific damage types or attack vectors ineffective, reduced hit chances via constant ToHit debuff).  By addressing the underlying problem of bullet sponges, making critters challenging in ways other than continually inflated hit point totals, being "overpowered" is no longer an issue.  Whereas other MMOs have to create new enemies, or scripts which force players to dance around inanely to create the illusion of variety without actually changing anything, Co* can do more using nothing beyond what is already in the engine.

 

This would, obviously, require redesigning existing missions, maps and enemy groups, or designing new ones, and creating the appropriate pseudo-pets and/or implementing map buffs/debuffs, but it's possible within the existing framework, and would be far more effective at closing the gap between "uber" and "scrub" builds.  Co* has always been capable of being more than a measurement of damage output, and many of the inherent functions, such as variability of powers between sets, accuracy (the very existence of which opposes most MMO approaches), and multiple damage and resistance types, indicate that the original intent was to move beyond the bullet sponge paradigm, but it never quite made it to where it was going.  That's why the power gap exists, and will until the game begins moving forward again, in regard to critter and encounter design.

 

Any change to Hasten would be meaningless and functionally useless in light of the current design and implementation of combat and mission objectives, and when taking IOs into account.  Until we are required to do more than throw increasingly large or rapidly repeated orange numbers at enemies, it would be nothing other than changing the goalpost.  Not even moving it, just altering how players approach and pass it.

[DougGraves]

37 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Any change to Hasten would be meaningless and functionally useless in light of the current design and implementation of combat and mission objectives, and when taking IOs into account.  Until we are required to do more than throw increasingly large or rapidly repeated orange numbers at enemies, it would be nothing other than changing the goalpost.  Not even moving it, just altering how players approach and pass it.

 

What you mean is Hasten is overpowered and IO sets are even more overpowered.  So the gap in character power is even bigger now due to IO sets. 

 

You cannot assume that characters use IO sets any more than you can assume hasten.  The same problem exists with both - they create imbalance that makes the game impossible to balance.

[Doomguide2005]

If I followed Luminara even a little bit they were saying, in many ways, that it doesn't really matter if they are overpowered or not because changing them doesn't really change the underlying issue the suggested changes are trying to solve.  It's just "changing the goal posts. Not even ...".  Instead CoX needs to challenge players by changing design not by just giving foes more of what they already have but in other ways beyond being sacks of hit points. Something they think CoX is much more capable of than most MMO's without resorting to a CoX2.

[Luminara]

11 minutes ago, DougGraves said:

What you mean is

 

What I wrote.  I think through everything I post, examine every possible avenue of which I can conceive and regard as feasible, consider every word before using it, and proofread and edit before submitting my commentary.  I don't equivocate.  I don't sacrifice clarity or completeness for convenience.

 

32 minutes ago, DougGraves said:

Hasten is overpowered and IO sets are even more overpowered.  So the gap in character power is even bigger now due to IO sets.

 

As I stated, and meant, there's a functional plateau to the benefit of +Recharge, and that plateau can be achieved with neither Hasten nor IO sets.  That plateau has nothing to do with caps, or diminishing returns, and pursuit of further +Recharge gradually decreases the total efficiency of a character by sacrificing different aspects of potential power gains in favor of minute recharge time improvements.  A stable attack chain, with no pauses between activations, and with all other important aspects of the powers commesurately improved, is peak efficiency, and that is easily possible with neither Hasten nor IO sets.

 

59 minutes ago, DougGraves said:

You cannot assume that characters use IO sets any more than you can assume hasten.

 

I assume that all players gain an awareness of IOs, as that is one of the missions given to everyone, regardless of origin or starting point (blue/gold/red).  And I assume that all players develop an awareness of IO set existence, as random recipe drops are a basic component of the game.  I also assume that all players are intelligent enough to either perform the very basic math necessary to comprehend how "garbage" IO set recipes can be used to effectively enhance powers well beyond what a simple global +Recharge increase alone can provide, or are capable of using a tool like Mids' to do this.

 

Those are the only assumptions I make.  But you may be right.  I may be assuming too much.  It is entirely possible that a large segment of the player base consists of slack-jawed, knuckle-dragging evolutionary throwbacks to Homo Heidelbergensis who are still screaming in terror at the sight of fire and marveling at the sharp edge produced when they drop one rock on another.  Frankly, I suspect there are only a few of those here, but I can accede the possibility that there may be more than I anticipated.

 

1 hour ago, DougGraves said:

The same problem exists with both - they create imbalance that makes the game impossible to balance.

 

The imbalance is not caused by differing improvements of variables to combat equations, it is a result of lack of variability in combat itself.  As I said previously, changing or removing either Hasten or IOs will not solve the problem because they didn't create the problem, and their impact on the problem is actually far more limited than most people consider.  Deleting Hasten and IO sets entirely doesn't move the goalpost, it paints the goalpost mauve.

[Twisted Toon]

14 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 Deleting Hasten and IO sets entirely doesn't move the goalpost, it paints the goalpost mauve.

I prefer Fuchsia.

[Blastit]

27 minutes ago, Luminara said:

I assume that all players gain an awareness of IOs, as that is one of the missions given to everyone, regardless of origin or starting point (blue/gold/red).  And I assume that all players develop an awareness of IO set existence, as random recipe drops are a basic component of the game.  I also assume that all players are intelligent enough to either perform the very basic math necessary to comprehend how "garbage" IO set recipes can be used to effectively enhance powers well beyond what a simple global +Recharge increase alone can provide, or are capable of using a tool like Mids' to do this.

 

Those are the only assumptions I make.  But you may be right.  I may be assuming too much.  It is entirely possible that a large segment of the player base consists of slack-jawed, knuckle-dragging evolutionary throwbacks to Homo Heidelbergensis who are still screaming in terror at the sight of fire and marveling at the sharp edge produced when they drop one rock on another.  Frankly, I suspect there are only a few of those here, but I can accede the possibility that there may be more than I anticipated.

There are people who don't use IO sets because they don't know which ones are good and which ones are bad. The individually small bonuses when looking at IO sets only make sense within the larger picture of having a lot of them. Assuming that people download a third-party programt to use as a companion to the actual game isn't necessarily safe to do. The overwhelming amount of new information coupled with the worry that you can fuck up and buy the wrong thing, thus wasting your resources, can be very intimidating.

[DougGraves]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

Those are the only assumptions I make.  But you may be right.  I may be assuming too much.  It is entirely possible that a large segment of the player base consists of slack-jawed, knuckle-dragging evolutionary throwbacks to Homo Heidelbergensis who are still screaming in terror at the sight of fire and marveling at the sharp edge produced when they drop one rock on another.  Frankly, I suspect there are only a few of those here, but I can accede the possibility that there may be more than I anticipated.

 

You insult those who do not share your playstyle.  I think that says enough about the value of your opinions.

[Luminara]

2 hours ago, Blastit said:

There are people who don't use IO sets because they don't know which ones are good and which ones are bad. The individually small bonuses when looking at IO sets only make sense within the larger picture of having a lot of them. Assuming that people download a third-party programt to use as a companion to the actual game isn't necessarily safe to do. The overwhelming amount of new information coupled with the worry that you can fuck up and buy the wrong thing, thus wasting your resources, can be very intimidating.

 

I wasn't addressing sets.  Individual set recipes drop.  Those recipes are useful without considering the bonuses available for using multiple enhancements from an specific set.  It's a simple matter to soft cap every enhanceable effect of any power in four or five slots by using double, triple and quadruple attribute IOs from varying sets.  And the math for calculating that, it's standard addition.  It's not advanced calculus or trigonometry, it's 2+2=4 math.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, DougGraves said:

You insult those who do not share your playstyle.

 

If you infer insult from that, it says far more about you than about me.

 

1 hour ago, DougGraves said:

I think that says enough about the value of your opinions.

 

If you would like to debate the content of my responses, or the reasoning behind and merits of my conclusions, I'm more than willing to engage you.  But deliberately misconstruing my posts, putting words in my mouth and trying to start shit isn't going to get you anywhere, and it doesn't imply that what you imagine my opinion to be carries any weight.