Make Sudden Acceleration KB/KD A Global

[Acrimon]

Is this possible?

 

I had to throw a KB --> KD io into nearly every power in Energy Blast, and it's glorious, but it definitely feels like a waste of precious end-game slots.

 

Considering how many people prefer KD to KB, is it possible to make this io a global? Or, perhaps add one that works as a global, subtracting 48 kb from every power?

[Lost Deep]

It wouldn't work for every power: Energy manipulation has a lot of powers where the entire point is using knockback from the melee attacks to give you breathing room. However, I do agree that knockback is alarmingly common and often aggravating; even as someone who thinks people get too wound up over it I agree that there needs to be some kind of wide-angle solution considered. If not KB to KD, then maybe KB to KU? That still gives air time, moves the mobs a little but not a lot, and (most importantly) is still somewhat hilarious.

[Rathulfr]

No thanks.  I prefer to keep KB in my single-target attacks, and use the SA KB2KD proc only in my AoE attacks.

 

[SurfD]

Some people prefer to micro manage their KB/KD procs on an individual power basis.

 

A better alternative might be something like just creating a "unique" one off non set IO with a global KB->KD effect as a "Universal Damage" piece, and let people go to town?

[Zeraphia]

Honestly for sets like Energy Blast that are literally *known* for their KB, I think it may be best for those who do not desire the knockback to be given an optional inherent toggle power that just flat out shuts off kb and turns all kb powers to mag 0, essentially making it just deal damage "Knockback Suppression" as a name. However, powers that are specifically slotted to KD would overpower the toggle and work independently of it. Also, FF procs should still have a chance to fire even if the power doesn't KB the critters. This toggle is 0 end/sec and can be toggled on/off at any time. 

 

It may not fix all the problems (may also be annoying to detoggle/retoggle), but it does solve the issue of having to slot kb->kd in so many powers to play the set, it will allow you to run procs, overall addresses most of the issues while still allowing those who desire the kb to retain the kb. It also doesn't just automatically turn it all into gaining a direct benefit to the user of all of them having KD (overpowered IMO).

Edited May 10, 2020 by Zeraphia

[Outrider_01]

So basically people must/have to/required to run at all times in a group, because;reason its annoying.  In that people who don't like it when things are thrown back by another person, if you choose not to suppress KB other people will kick you out vote you off the island; man democracy is great when others in power.

 

tl;dr - you guys seem to think a global fix is a good idea, but suddenly now a person is forced by others in the group to run this toggle or a global IO if not slotted or you get the boot from the group.  Basically goning exile someone over a powerset or affect; just because its annoying and others don't like it. 

 

You also have the option to not group with people with KB powers, not play with KB powersets or use communication skills and info check for before starting a TF to weed out "yeah man, can you get another character with out KB.  We can wait a bit, send a tell." 

 

I expect a counter of "I am not gonna waste 2 minutes of my life" response to talk with people during the TF suggestion, but hey let's debate for for a couple days on the forums or hope/wait that HC devs might put this idea into effect some time in the unknown distant feature, when you already have the power and ability to do so.

 

Fix AOE/cone KB, single target isn't gonna ruin anyone's day.

 

Also

• /jranger
• Nerf Regen
• Buff Regen
• Nerf Aardvarks
• Buff Pandas 🐼
• Nerf sticky threads for common suggestions
• Buff Forum search
• Nerf player response
• More SG storage space
• Hasten inherent thread
• Hasten nerf thread
• Buff GM thread jacking

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Outrider_01

[AerialAssault]

I'm one of those people who love Knockback. If I'm on a team with strangers I'll show restraint and understanding, but if I'm with friends then I'll go wild.

 

So, this is a downvote from me.

[SurfD]

@Outrider_01 wow, overreaction much?

 

No.  Nobody is suggesting anything of the sort.  This is more of a question of convenience for PERSONAL preference.  How you deal with what other players want in regards to KB/KD is another issue entirely (and it's not like some players don'talready bitch about Energy Blasters or other KB heavy power sets as it is anyway).

 

The issue at hand is that, for some Power Sets, if the player wants to disable the KB effect, they basically are forced to pay a MASSIVE IO slot tax (potentially to the tune of up to 5+ wasted slots) just to take Knockback off of stuff they don't want it on.  Having a GLOBAL KB->KD effect available would open up that choice and allow them to recover a significant portion of the KB->KD slot tax for their build.

 

I mean, To get the most out of my BotsMM, I basically pay a 1 slot IO tax to KB->KD knockback in my worst offending bot, because nothing is more annoying than watching a Burn Patch go down only to have everything bounced out of it 2 seconds later.   And that doesn't completely remove the KB from the equation, since the other bots still have a smaller chance of doing it as well.  To completely remove it, I would need to waste yet more slots.  A Global KB->KD IO would fix the issue entirely with 1 slot, and depending on what set you put it on, potentially wouldn't even require gimping my bots to do it.

Edited May 10, 2020 by SurfD

[Nanolathe]

@Captain Powerhouse has, or had, plans for Knockback. I assume it'll soothe some people's rampant hatred of the mechanic, while those that really love the mechanic to still enjoy the powerful feeling it gives. CP seems firmly of the opinion that Knockback needs to be in the game for the power fantasy feelings. 

 

Personally, I love seeing a mob fly across the room and ragdoll all over a pile of crates. I would never turn it off, or bother slotting what I see as a "nerf" to the KB effect. If the Tanker gets mad, they get mad. I try to not push mobs off the 6' sphere around them... but if it happens, it happens. <em shrug>

 

Edit:

No hard details on exactly what CP has in mind though. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Nanolathe

[MTeague]

14 hours ago, Acrimon said:

I had to throw a KB --> KD io into nearly every power in Energy Blast

You did not have to.  You chose to.  And you were probably quite aware that Energy Blast was chock-full of knockback when you created the character.

[MTeague]

6 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

• Buff Pandas 🐼

 

Dude, have you seen the Kung Fu Panda movies?  Po is completely OP.

[MsSmart]

Love the idea as a band-aid...

 

Really each power should have a switch for KB or KD as an option, perhaps it can be done at the ICON screen where you choose the effects for them?

 

Just a thought

[Zeraphia]

On 5/10/2020 at 5:40 AM, Outrider_01 said:

So basically people must/have to/required to run at all times in a group, because;reason its annoying.  In that people who don't like it when things are thrown back by another person, if you choose not to suppress KB other people will kick you out vote you off the island; man democracy is great when others in power.

I wouldn't personally kick anyone out of a group for KBing unless they were told before to stop KBing, and if they do it so often where every group has been totally scattered and just being a total *** about it... I'm sorry but I don't really feel bad for them. I give people the benefit of the doubt, same thing goes when people annoyingly teleport people in random areas with incand or don't use incand properly or spam phase shifting AV's. There are many group leaders who have the same mindset I do. Very very few will truly kick you off of a team just for not using the toggle at all or if you aren't seeming to be a troll.

 

If they want to do it, they still have the option with the suppression toggle idea I had, they can go nuts with it all day long if they wanted to, and they can turn it on and off at any point! But if someone on the team asks them to use the toggle and they repeatedly and defiantly spam KB on groups of mobs over and over to prove how big their kahunas are, well, good riddance! That is not a new concept or limited to KB, that is just defiantly being a troll or an ***.

[Abysmalyxia]

On 5/9/2020 at 10:36 PM, SurfD said:

Some people prefer to micro manage their KB/KD procs on an individual power basis.

 

A better alternative might be something like just creating a "unique" one off non set IO with a global KB->KD effect as a "Universal Damage" piece, and let people go to town?

And this man provides the truth.

 

I'm going to expand on this...

[ShardWarrior]

On 5/9/2020 at 10:36 PM, SurfD said:

Some people prefer to micro manage their KB/KD procs on an individual power basis.

 

A better alternative might be something like just creating a "unique" one off non set IO with a global KB->KD effect as a "Universal Damage" piece, and let people go to town?

I think this is a good suggestion.  I like the idea, although instead of an IO set, perhaps something along the lines of like a "swap ammo" type ability that allows the player to switch between KB/KD might work too.

[Lost Deep]

5 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

I think this is a good suggestion.  I like the idea, although instead of an IO set, perhaps something along the lines of like a "swap ammo" type ability that allows the player to switch between KB/KD might work too.

I think this would likely be the toughest solution to implement, but also maybe the best one as some powers really bank on KB to work. The example of Energy Manip stands; a number of Energy Manip melee attacks bank on KB as part of control, specifically knock BACK instead of just down. This makes the set difficult but rewarding to use well, and I'd like to see that maintained. A universal KB to KD change would damage it, but some kind of toggle might work.

[ShardWarrior]

53 minutes ago, Lost Deep said:

I think this would likely be the toughest solution to implement, but also maybe the best one as some powers really bank on KB to work. The example of Energy Manip stands; a number of Energy Manip melee attacks bank on KB as part of control, specifically knock BACK instead of just down. This makes the set difficult but rewarding to use well, and I'd like to see that maintained. A universal KB to KD change would damage it, but some kind of toggle might work.

I agree, no doubt the toggle would be more work.  It seemed to me to be better in the long run as it would be easier to click a toggle than to try and remove IOs and such. 

[Neogumbercules]

Other servers have implemented something like an inherent toggle power that converts all that KB to KD and it really seems like the simplest solution, while also being optional, which should really make everyone happy. With the ability to use IOs to turn off KB selectively, or a toggle that works globally, every preference should be satisfied (except the preference of those who believe the mechanic should be left untouched, which honestly is probably just a small minority considering this has been one of the most requested features for this game since freaking forever). 

[Saiyajinzoningen]

9 hours ago, Neogumbercules said:

Other servers have implemented something like an inherent toggle power that converts all that KB to KD and it really seems like the simplest solution, while also being optional, which should really make everyone happy. With the ability to use IOs to turn off KB selectively, or a toggle that works globally, every preference should be satisfied (except the preference of those who believe the mechanic should be left untouched, which honestly is probably just a small minority considering this has been one of the most requested features for this game since freaking forever). 

nah wouldnt work because for some reason some people are convinced that given the option players would be forced to use it just to stay on teams. although its not like players who use KB poorly are welcome on teams now. BUT it doesn't matter to me either way because i CAN use KB quite well. irregardless (yes i am aware its not a word, please lighten up its a joke) it must be a new month because the anti-KB thread is back!

[Galaxy Brain]

20 hours ago, Lost Deep said:

I think this would likely be the toughest solution to implement, but also maybe the best one as some powers really bank on KB to work. The example of Energy Manip stands; a number of Energy Manip melee attacks bank on KB as part of control, specifically knock BACK instead of just down. This makes the set difficult but rewarding to use well, and I'd like to see that maintained. A universal KB to KD change would damage it, but some kind of toggle might work.

There is only 1 power in /energy with knockback

[Lost Deep]

8 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

There is only 1 power in /energy with knockback

...might be that I just use that one power a lot, since I solo a lot. Oops.

 

Well, point stands. Not as strong, but it stands: some powers are reliant on Knockback, and if it was removed across the board they'd drop in usefulness and likely need to be re-done. And at that point, I think a toggle would be easier to implement. Heck, it wouldn't even make the KD to KB IO obsolete: you could still put that on abilities you just want to never knockback even if you're in knockback mode (AoE abilities in energy blast, maybe).

[BrandX]

Sometimes, you have to decide if wasting the slot is worth the bonus it gives.

 

I have builds that use the Damage IO in the purple sets (waste of space) just to get that 6th Bonus that I feel is worth it.

 

Part of IOs is deciding what is okay and what isn't for your build.

 

On my PB, I thought it worth it to put it in every power except the Nuke and went with the idea that people could live with the Nuke KBing 😛

[Chance Jackson]

On 5/10/2020 at 5:40 AM, Outrider_01 said:

So basically people must/have to/required to run at all times in a group, because;reason its annoying.  In that people who don't like it when things are thrown back by another person, if you choose not to suppress KB other people will kick you out vote you off the island; man democracy is great when others in power.

 

tl;dr - you guys seem to think a global fix is a good idea, but suddenly now a person is forced by others in the group to run this toggle or a global IO if not slotted or you get the boot from the group.  Basically goning exile someone over a powerset or affect; just because its annoying and others don't like it. 

 

You also have the option to not group with people with KB powers, not play with KB powersets or use communication skills and info check for before starting a TF to weed out "yeah man, can you get another character with out KB.  We can wait a bit, send a tell." 

 

I expect a counter of "I am not gonna waste 2 minutes of my life" response to talk with people during the TF suggestion, but hey let's debate for for a couple days on the forums or hope/wait that HC devs might put this idea into effect some time in the unknown distant feature, when you already have the power and ability to do so.

 

Fix AOE/cone KB, single target isn't gonna ruin anyone's day.

 

Also

• /jranger
• Nerf Regen
• Buff Regen
• Nerf Aardvarks
• Buff Pandas 🐼
• Nerf sticky threads for common suggestions
• Buff Forum search
• Nerf player response
• More SG storage space
• Hasten inherent thread
• Hasten nerf thread
• Buff GM thread jacking

 

I always say leave it up to the team leader

[zeeviant]

On 5/9/2020 at 7:21 PM, Rathulfr said:

No thanks.  I prefer to keep KB in my single-target attacks, and use the SA KB2KD proc only in my AoE attacks.

 

Any many people don't prefer that. So perhaps there is a world that is not design specifically for you, and instead of changing sudden acceleration, we can get a new set that does it global.

Edited May 12, 2020 by zeeviant

[Solarverse]

What needs to be done, instead of making them all KB to KD, give them proc chances of extra damage. The reason they feel a waste of a slot is because they only serve one purpose...to prevent knock back. They are not really adding to your build, they are only rearranging your build to have a different function...so honestly, they are a waste of slot...if not a waste, then at very least a sacrifice.

They way to make them better (because having just one that changes your whole build to KD instead of KB will not benefit everyone. Some players like KB in their single target attacks...like me.) is to create more of them, and then give them different types of other effects. Some for fire damage procs, some for dark procs, some for a +Build-up proc, some for a placate proc, and so forth. That way when you slot them, they serve more of a function than just changing your knock down to knock back.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Solarverse