Does Maneuvers Stack?

[Natti]

If multiple Team members all have maneuvers does it stack?

[Machariel]

It sure does!

 

 

[Natti]

Thank you 🙂 

[JJDrakken]

All powers from different sources stack with other sources.

[Riverdusk]

  On 6/3/2020 at 2:00 AM, JJDrakken said:

All powers from different sources stack with other sources.

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Except for Vengeance, unless you're nemesis and get to cheat.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Riverdusk

[Coyote]

  On 6/3/2020 at 2:00 AM, JJDrakken said:

All powers from different sources stack with other sources.

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In general, a safe concept to go with.

 

There are some exceptions: most IOs that cause a -Res debuff do not stack from different sources. I'm not sure about other types of debuffing like -ToHit or -Recovery from the IOs.

Incarnate Interface (not that the OP is close to that now) stack up to a limited amount (I think 4 or 5 stacks for most debuffs).

The Sentinel inherent does not stack.

 

I don't recall other examples, but I would be surprised if there aren't others that I'm forgetting.

[Mister Mass]

  On 6/3/2020 at 2:16 PM, Coyote said:

 

In general, a safe concept to go with.

 

There are some exceptions: most IOs that cause a -Res debuff do not stack from different sources. I'm not sure about other types of debuffing like -ToHit or -Recovery from the IOs.

Incarnate Interface (not that the OP is close to that now) stack up to a limited amount (I think 4 or 5 stacks for most debuffs).

The Sentinel inherent does not stack.

 

I don't recall other examples, but I would be surprised if there aren't others that I'm forgetting.

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Tanker Bruising (now gone) didn't stack as well.  But most buffs & debuffs in CoX stack.  That is really one of the defining differences between this game & most others - that & the fact that most buffs & debuffs aren't so miniscule as to almost not matter at all.  And with stacking, even small buffs & debuffs can add up to something quite significant.  This is City of Buffers/Debuffers - & I am happy to be in it! 😎

[Outrider_01]

Only stacking that is really reliable is the bodies by the door; before going to the hospital jail.

[Redlynne]

  On 6/3/2020 at 2:16 PM, Coyote said:

There are some exceptions: most IOs that cause a -Res debuff do not stack from different sources.

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Actually, that's incorrect (technically).

What's happening with those is that IO proc is causing the $Target to cast the effect onto themself which is why it doesn't stack from PCs.  If more than one of those IOs (of the same kind) proc then it causes the $Target to recast the effect onto themself, which then runs afoul of the "does not stack from same caster" rule which is why the effect "overwrites" to extend the duration rather than stacking so that you've 2x the effect for a portion of the duration.

 

So the rule is still good.  You just have to understand that for some effects it's not YOU casting the effect upon them for a debuff, but rather THEM being forced to cast the effect upon themselves(!) for the debuff ... and that the "does not stack from same caster" rule still applies.

  On 6/3/2020 at 2:36 PM, Mister Mass said:

Tanker Bruising (now gone) didn't stack as well.

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That's because Tanker Bruising (now removed) operated using the same "force them to cast the debuff on themselves" programming to enforce the effect.

[SwitchFade]

  On 6/3/2020 at 6:41 AM, Riverdusk said:

Except for Vengeance, unless you're nemesis and get to cheat.

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All fear the Nemesis Veng!

 

Also, stacking is a Nemesis plot.

[Coyote]

  On 6/3/2020 at 4:32 PM, Redlynne said:

Actually, that's incorrect (technically).

What's happening with those is that IO proc is causing the $Target to cast the effect onto themself which is why it doesn't stack from PCs.  If more than one of those IOs (of the same kind) proc then it causes the $Target to recast the effect onto themself, which then runs afoul of the "does not stack from same caster" rule which is why the effect "overwrites" to extend the duration rather than stacking so that you've 2x the effect for a portion of the duration.

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Are you sure this is still the case? I know this is how it was originally implemented, but I thought I read something on the forums here about some effects like Brusing and Achilles Heel having been "fixed" so that they're no longer using the kludgy "grantself power" ability. And I recall testing after reading that, and seeing that the Achilles Heel debuff was 18% on a +1 target... if the target were casting it upon themselves, then the level shouldn't matter and it should always be a 20% debuff. So, seeing the decreased debuff made me think that I understood correctly, and that the powers are now treated as being cast by the user rather than by the target, but somehow prevented from being stacked from different sources. I recall finding it annoying because it meant that slotting AH into Mercenaries would have a very diminished effect upon most targets.

[Doomguide2005]

  On 6/3/2020 at 12:38 AM, Natti said:

If multiple Team members all have maneuvers does it stack?

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Maneuvers, Assault and Tactics all stack.  And teams that start doing this get all sorts of powerful even if it's just made up of AT's that get the lowest buff benefits from them, such as 8 Scrappers.  The only one I'm not sure about is Victory Rush.  No personal experience and can't go in game or to Mids' currently, but I'm sure someone will pop in and say Y/N.

[Ironblade]

  On 6/3/2020 at 12:38 AM, Natti said:

If multiple Team members all have maneuvers does it stack?

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Not only does Maneuvers (and all the leadership toggles) stack, the team toggles that Arachnos Soldiers get also stack.  So they can have those toggles PLUS the Leadership toggles.

 

  On 6/3/2020 at 6:41 AM, Riverdusk said:

Except for Vengeance, unless you're nemesis and get to cheat.

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It's possible to stack Vengeance, but not reliably.  You need to be on voice chat to synchronize and be accurate enough to land both between 'server ticks'.

[Doomguide2005]

  On 6/3/2020 at 5:08 PM, Ironblade said:

Not only does Maneuvers (and all the leadership toggles) stack, the team toggles that Arachnos Soldiers get also stack.  So they can have those toggles PLUS the Leadership toggles.

 

It's possible to stack Vengeance, but not reliably.  You need to be on voice chat to synchronize and be accurate enough to land both between 'server ticks'.

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This.  Though it's not intended to work that way.  Vengeance stacking not Veats toggles that is 😁.  Bit like how GM (a team of all Empathy defenders) would prevent (often not always) toggle dropping of their Leadership toggles when Nukes weren't crashless.  Stack so much recovery their end never bottomed out.

 

Edit: Technically I think it would but we'd get a tic or more of end back before the toggle would check/pay its end cost so the toggle cost would get paid and no drop.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Doomguide2005

[Redlynne]

  On 6/3/2020 at 5:00 PM, Coyote said:

Are you sure this is still the case?

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Pretty sure.  If you have doubts ... there's always the test server and Target Analyzers.

  On 6/3/2020 at 5:06 PM, Doomguide2005 said:

The only one I'm not sure about is Victory Rush.

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Good thing we've got an answer!

  On 12/15/2019 at 6:31 PM, siolfir said:

For once, the in-game numbers are useful, though - the order, in increasing strength is:

• Underlings, turrets: +5% recovery, 2.5% endurance discount
• Minions: +10% recovery, 5% endurance discount
• Lieutenants: +30% recovery, 15% endurance discount
• Bosses: +60% recovery, +30% endurance discount
• Elite Bosses: +80% recovery, +40% endurance discount
• AVs/GMs: +100% recovery, +50% endurance discount

All of the buffs last for 2 minutes, and only the recovery portion is enhanceable.

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[Bopper]

  On 6/3/2020 at 5:34 PM, Redlynne said:

Pretty sure.  If you have doubts ... there's always the test server and Target Analyzers.

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No need, I've already tested this in the past. The purple patch applies to the "only stack once" debuff procs. What Coyote said is correct.

 

This also happened with Bruising, where it made it a headache when Tankers with different level shifts would update the Bruising of the target by applying their purple patch. So you'd have oscillations of the resistance debuff.

[Riverdusk]

  On 6/3/2020 at 6:40 PM, Bopper said:

No need, I've already tested this in the past. The purple patch applies to the "only stack once" debuff procs. What Coyote said is correct.

 

This also happened with Bruising, where it made it a headache when Tankers with different level shifts would update the Bruising of the target by applying their purple patch. So you'd have oscillations of the resistance debuff.

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Did you happen to test the interface procs as well?  Like for example the tohit debuff and -regen of diamagnetic?

[MTeague]

Once you've seen a team with 6+ stacks of leadership toggles, it gets real hard not to take them on every character.

Although mass-stacking of Manuevers, Assault, and Tactics *does* require people to stay more or less close to each other vs running every which way.

[Patti]

Don't you also cap stuff out at a point if the whole team is leader toggling?

[Bopper]

  On 6/3/2020 at 7:14 PM, Riverdusk said:

Did you happen to test the interface procs as well?  Like for example the tohit debuff and -regen of diamagnetic?

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I've dabbled...yes 

 

 

Can you be more specific on what you're wanting to know? Is it in regards to purple patch, max stacks, something else?

[Outrider_01]

  On 6/3/2020 at 4:32 PM, Redlynne said:

it's not YOU casting the effect upon them for a debuff, but rather THEM being forced to cast the effect upon themselves

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Nemesis plot.  Always a Nemesis plot.

[Psyonico]

  On 6/3/2020 at 2:16 PM, Coyote said:

The Sentinel inherent does not stack.

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There is an in game tip that says otherwise. 

[Riverdusk]

  On 6/3/2020 at 7:58 PM, Bopper said:

I've dabbled...yes 

 

 

Can you be more specific on what you're wanting to know? Is it in regards to purple patch, max stacks, something else?

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Purple patch.  I heard the "self cast" thing before so was thinking effectiveness of interface debuffs were not affected by level differences, but now it sounds like perhaps everything is.  Would make the small -15% regen you get for each stack of diamagnetic even more tiny against the AV's you actually need it for if it is reduced by level difference as well.  

 

Easy enough to test for myself, but if you happened to already have done so...

[Bopper]

  On 6/4/2020 at 12:47 AM, Riverdusk said:

Purple patch.  I heard the "self cast" thing before so was thinking effectiveness of interface debuffs were not affected by level differences, but now it sounds like perhaps everything is.  Would make the small -15% regen you get for each stack of diamagnetic even more tiny against the AV's you actually need it for if it is reduced by level difference as well.  

 

Easy enough to test for myself, but if you happened to already have done so...

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Haven't, but I can look

[Bopper]

  On 6/4/2020 at 12:47 AM, Riverdusk said:

Purple patch.  I heard the "self cast" thing before so was thinking effectiveness of interface debuffs were not affected by level differences, but now it sounds like perhaps everything is.  Would make the small -15% regen you get for each stack of diamagnetic even more tiny against the AV's you actually need it for if it is reduced by level difference as well.  

 

Easy enough to test for myself, but if you happened to already have done so...

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Tested Diamagnetic, it follows the purple patch. Tested against +0 enemy, saw 5% To Hit Debuff. Tested against +3 enemy, say 3.25% To Hit Debuff (65% strength)

 

Update: Also tested Degenerative. -3.5% Max HP on +0, -2.275% Max HP on +3 (65% strength)

Edited June 4, 2020 by Bopper