Global Enhancement for Knockback to Knockdown Conversion?

[Bill Z Bubba]

6 minutes ago, LiquidBandage said:

Sure they are probably debuffed, but now I am less effective.

And that's really all this comes down to. A lot of us have made it very clear here and back before the snap that for whatever reason we may like playing character X, we'd vastly prefer it if we didn't have to self-gimp just to stop annoying other players.

Be that gimping by spending a slot in every KB power for a KB-->KD or choosing to gimp our DPS by not using said attacks at all or until Y situation allows for it.

 

Side note: Don't slot a chance for KD in Burn. It often doubletaps and sends the enemies FLYIN!

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

Tuesday sure came around fast this week.  Next up: nerf Regen or Super Strength Scrappers?

 

Give tanks regen so I can have my regen/ss tank nerfed.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[Astra1Defender]

Correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't KB to KD conversion also prevent enemies from getting blasted into the walls?

[ForeverLaxx]

While the option would be nice, if it were to happen, I would not want the current system to go away. Knockback is a very powerful personal defense system when used effectively and many players enjoy being able to push things away from them. Some powers actually become worse defensively if you turn the effect into Knockdown, like Repulsion Field or Repel, because they never leave the effect radius and constantly deduct endurance each time they're pinged for the effect trigger.

 

With that said, I basically only use the enhancement for Knockback that I can't easily control the direction of. Generally this is limited to AoE knockback powers like Explosive Blast, Energy Torrent, and Gale. I also toss one in Tornado so it's not chasing down things it knocks away and ruining group bunches. When it comes to single target attacks though, my stance is that the melee can just deal with the occasional knockback. It's not like I knock something away and then ignore it to knock other things away -- I'm still targeting that enemy and working on defeating it. If having to step 5 feet away from where you are to fire off one more attack is that much of an issue, then target something else in range and attack it instead.

[RageusQuitus2]

Id really like kb to kd to work in hurricane.  Or maybe its the repel?  maybe we need a repel to kd enhancement as well?

[0th Power]

1 hour ago, SwitchFade said:

Now I want to make an ene blaster and slot every attack for maximum knockback.

 

Awesome sauce.

Go storm/energy defender. I did. 

[Twisted Toon]

1 hour ago, 0th Power said:

Go storm/energy defender. I did. 

Agent Knockback is a FF/Eng Defender. I actually have a couple of powers that don't do KB.

I also don't have any KB->KD enhancements slotted or planned for him either.

 

Now, if they'd just fix the Rocketboard so it doesn't detoggle the half a dozen toggles he has...

[0th Power]

5 minutes ago, Twisted Toon said:

Agent Knockback is a FF/Eng Defender. I actually have a couple of powers that don't do KB.

I also don't have any KB->KD enhancements slotted or planned for him either.

 

Now, if they'd just fix the Rocketboard so it doesn't detoggle the half a dozen toggles he has...

Mine is admiral knockback

 

captain Knockback was taken. 

[HelenCarnate]

Would love it. Make it a melee global IO so it could be slotted in brawl.  

[MunkiLord]

39 minutes ago, HelenCarnate said:

Would love it. Make it a melee global IO so it could be slotted in brawl.  

Too many teammates are control freaks and try to tell others how to play, making it slottable in brawl would make it even easier for the control freaks to try and push people around. There needs to be a cost for such an IO(or toggle) so it is a big ask for those that demand it of other people. It needs to be a burden on leaders that will try and force this on other people.

Edited August 1, 2020 by MunkiLord

[HelenCarnate]

Just now, MunkiLord said:

Too many teammates are douchebags and try to tell others how to play, making it slottable in brawl would make it even easier for the control freaks to try and push people around. There needs to be a cost for such an IO(or toggle) so it is a big ask for those that demand it of other people. 

Gotta love irony.  

[FoulVileTerror]

I think if anyone is "control freak" enough to demand someone slot something like this, then they're control freak enough right now to just boot an Energy Blaster or Storm Controller instantly upon discovering what their Sets are.  I don't believe that the addition of more options is going to significantly increase the number of players who conduct themselves in such a manner as those team leaders.

I think that something of this nature should be as accessible and simple to switch on and off as possible, as to limit the overhead and problems experienced by the players who actually have the Knockback Powers they want to switch.

 

And I know it would be a pain in the butt with the way the code works, but I -still- think it would be hugely beneficial to do a batch pass through of all Player Powers to add an instance of a 100% chance of Mag 0 Knockup to every Power with Knockback/Knockdown.  And then change the KB->KD Enhancements to switch the Knockback to Mag 0 and the Knockup to Mag .67

This will (in theory) resolve that annoying as hell issue with two ticks of Knockdown turning in to Knockback (or Knockdown on Clockwork / low-level targets, et cetera).

Mag 0.67 Knockup also has a really fun animation that I would like to see more of.

[Outrider_01]

+Rech proc

+Build up

 

KB to KD random proc buff that lasts 6 seconds and supresses KB for the duration.  Can still KB, would basically reduce chance instead of magnitude.  Like playing bingo with half a deck of cards while spinning a roulette and tossing dice.  Very chaotic and random.

[Grouchybeast]

13 hours ago, 0th Power said:

Mine is admiral knockback

 

captain Knockback was taken. 

This thread inspired me to make an Ill/Storm controller called Illusion of Chaos.

 

PSA: Did you know that six-slotting Kinetic Combat Kinetic Crash gives you a 7.5% Rech bonus?

Edited August 1, 2020 by Grouchybeast

[roleki]

17 hours ago, Greycat said:

And McDonald's has sold "over 100 billion" burgers, that doesn't make them fine dining. Or even particularly good burgers.

 

"The majority" of players don't tend to interact with the forums. Of those that do, I do know of people who completely ignore suggestions - they'd rather just post about server events, art, that sort of thing. So honestly, saying "I see X many threads on this," probably with many of the same people in it, is not really a basis for saying "the majority" wants something.

So what you're saying is, due to paucity of sample size, neither you nor I have any inkling as to what any opinion of the majority is, so speculating that the majority is in favor of preserving KB just as it is would be as fundamentally flawed as arguing that the majority call for it to be addressed.  

 

Interesting though, that despite the forums only being utilized by a 'fraction' of players, the threads asking for KB to be addressed globally represent a large number of those posted BY that fraction, so much so that it can be predicted to happen with great regularity.   And yes, the same people chime into every one of those threads voicing their yay or nay, but the fact remains, a new thread was started, by yet another dissatisfied customer, while the people arguing that KB is just fine as it is are always the same people, so.... steady growth week over week is more than just random pipes rattling.

 

 

[wolfshadow31]

3 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

This thread inspired me to make an Ill/Storm controller called Illusion of Chaos.

 

PSA: Did you know that six-slotting Kinetic Combat gives you a 7.5% Rech bonus?

Six Slotting Kinetic Crash gives that bonus.  All hail our KB Overlords! 😄

[Demobot]

My main was an Energy Blaster on live. Played on and off from launch to shutdown. I am 100% in favor of a global KB->KD IO.

[arcane]

15 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

we'd vastly prefer it if we didn't have to self-gimp just to stop annoying other players.

Self-gimp seems like a strong word across the board, but in some cases it’s just ridiculous. In the case of Tornado, no other IO is contributing more to the DPS of that power than the KB-KD Proc. It’s a massive reward well worth a slot. 
 

That’s one disconnect between the two camps here I guess... people that see better mitigation control as a positive good worth investment versus people that see knockback as an unholy curse that shouldn’t exist.

[arcane]

1 hour ago, roleki said:

 

Interesting though, that despite the forums only being utilized by a 'fraction' of players, the threads asking for KB to be addressed globally represent a large number of those posted BY that fraction, so much so that it can be predicted to happen with great regularity.   And yes, the same people chime into every one of those threads voicing their yay or nay, but the fact remains, a new thread was started, by yet another dissatisfied customer, while the people arguing that KB is just fine as it is are always the same people, so.... steady growth week over week is more than just random pipes rattling.

 

 

The existence of recurring threads is of course not a meaningful argument.

 

PvP would have been entirely deleted from the game by now if recurring threads by PvP zone badge collectors represented a genuine problem.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

See here is the thing, outside of mobs getting stuck in walls, the anti KB faction has no valid position, just a demand for a want, that if it comes to pass will put the onus on those, who are currently happy with things as they are, to adapt to the demands of others because if they dont then they will be the one blamed, rather than those demanding another play their way.

 

All the other QQ, about mobs being knocked back are as weak as they can be. Having tho run for a blink of an eye after a mob, in a game with some of the best movement action in MMO of its era, thats a good thing, a reason to love this game, not a thing to QQ about. Thus I deem it an invalid pov from QQers.

 

The complaints about runners? Everybody runs sooner or later, it happens. While the AI is far from the best of modern AI, mobs fleeing as an act of self preservation makes a lot of sense, sure it would be nice if it could be spiced up, with mobs that should never have self value acting like sucide soldiers and what not, but the game is from the turn of the millennia, it is what it is, better they run, then sit down and beg to be killed.

 

The o it is costing me a build tax if  I want to shut off my KB and not annoy my friends group, well hey just about every good team centric build for every power set and AT comes at the cost of solo power. Upside the buffs of allied team mates are multiplicative rather then linear so in the end whatever your giving up to help your team work smoother is always a small price to pay for the return.

 

I love KB, I love seeing it, I love using it, and as a leader of tfs and teams and a modest SG, encourage its use, and player mastery of your builds abilities, rather than simply dumb down the game for those who dont want to master the art, and cant handle playing with those who are not masters.

[roleki]

35 minutes ago, arcaneholocaust said:

Self-gimp seems like a strong word across the board, but in some cases it’s just ridiculous. In the case of Tornado, no other IO is contributing more to the DPS of that power than the KB-KD Proc. It’s a massive reward well worth a slot. 
 

That’s one disconnect between the two camps here I guess... people that see better mitigation control as a positive good worth investment versus people that see knockback as an unholy curse that shouldn’t exist.

"Self-gimp" in the sense that the overwhelming MAJORITY of characters don't need to sink 16% or more of a given power's enhancement slots to mitigate KB.  The missed opportunity could be anywhere from 0 enhancement for anything, to 53% enhanced damage from a Purple IO, to a proc, to who knows what?  Because we won't know because we're too busy slotting 16% or more of a given power's enhancement to mitigate KB.

 

Just because some instances allow you to make lemonade out of that lemon, doesn't mean everyone should just shut up, bend over and ride it out.  My Fire controllers benefit maybe too much from KB:KD, but that doesn't do a damn thing for my En/En blaster.

[Dazl]

Just because some people would prefer a knockdown in a power over knockback, doesn't mean they don't want to see any knockbacks at all. With my grav/strom troller I want minimum knockback in my storm powers. When I wormhole the mobs into a spot, I want them to stay there. With my grav/energy dom, I want to keep the knockback in some of the blast powers.

 

It's not an all this way or that way issue.

[Grouchybeast]

1 hour ago, wolfshadow31 said:

Six Slotting Kinetic Crash gives that bonus.  All hail our KB Overlords! 😄

Whoops!  I even look it up in Paragonwiki to make sure I got the right one and I still typoed the name!  

[arcane]

35 minutes ago, roleki said:

Just because some instances allow you to make lemonade out of that lemon, doesn't mean everyone should just shut up, bend over and ride it out.  My Fire controllers benefit maybe too much from KB:KD, but that doesn't do a damn thing for my En/En blaster.

Just giving my two cents man. No need for anyone to shut up.

 

And I agree there’s a big difference between how this issue affects Bonfire, Stormies, etc. versus how it affects energy blast and kheldians. It’s more of a slot tax to the latter (though kheldians aren’t exactly struggling in the grand scheme of things, it does make energy blast unattractive), and more of a nigh-absurd buff to the former. I just happen to think even more universal power creep is not the answer.

[Greycat]

17 hours ago, ForeverLaxx said:

With that said, I basically only use the enhancement for Knockback that I can't easily control the direction of.

This is generally where I'll put KB-KD enhancements in. *I* can control my knockback, generally through positioning. Tornado and its ilk can't, so that, yes, I will try to mitigate. AI isn't very... I, so it needs all the help it can get. And it's very much a power boost to Bonfire, which happens to be a damage patch as well as area denial.

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by Greycat