Why so many Ancillary/Ppatron pools

[Nafsmar]

3 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

What if it meant buttering oneself?

 

Mmm... buttered heroine...

I guess if I was a lobster I would love it!

[Hyperstrike]

Honestly, unless you're already rocking massive Defense, taking Resist armors on Blasters, Defenders, Corruptors, etc doesn't really pay off very well.
Mainly because your caps are significantly lower and you don't really have the HP (and thus, Regen) to make it pay off effectively.

 

[Hyperstrike]

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

but people who enjoy min/maxing.

You have summoned me mortal?

[MTeague]

3 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Honestly, unless you're already rocking massive Defense, taking Resist armors on Blasters, Defenders, Corruptors, etc doesn't really pay off very well.
Mainly because your caps are significantly lower and you don't really have the HP (and thus, Regen) to make it pay off effectively.

 

Depends.  My Mind/Kin uses a resist armor...  Mind Over Body... primarily for concept reasons. 

But he's ungrouped, just for walking-around values he's sitting at: 

 

 

If he's soloing, that's plenty enough defense, because he'll have all of an opening mob Held or Confused or Slept, or at *least* Feared, in very short order, unless there's Purple Triangles going on.  LOTS less attacks will be incoming once I use controls to turn half the enemy against itself.

 

Teamed, that 33.7% ranged defense generally goes well over 45%, and melee goes over 40% just from random team buffs.  A few teammates will have manuevers, or maybe we'll have a bubbler, or a Cold Domination or Traps user or a Widow/Soldier.   Could he stand to have a bit more AoE defense?  ya probably, but it hasnt' been an issue thus far.   And the having Smashing/Lethal resistances being so high makes him plenty durable enough to squeeze off a transfusion. 

 

Maybe min/max would say I should have gone Scorpion shield or Frozen Armor, but he's never felt squishy to me after lvl 41.

[Six-Six]

11 hours ago, Williwaw said:

"So many"?  I wish there were *more*.

 

Every AT should have Fire, Ice, Electric, Dark, Plant, Earth, Energy, and natural/weapon-based APPs (and I'm sure I forgot some), so you can complement any theme.  And that's before taking PPPs into account.

I concur. I see the existing epics/patrons very limited when it comes to theme and performance. a lot of them just don't seem to be "epic" at all.

[Greentea]

Choice is good, but I wish some of the AT have more defense shields such as Blasters.  

Edited August 6, 2020 by Heliodorus

[GastlyGibus]

14 hours ago, TIto Vendetta said:

SO, if I have filtered down most of what I am hearing in these responses,  its strictly the metagame aspect that i am seeing, and it is still a viable survivable solo build to stray from the BS pool, not necessarily effective for farming, I can feel confident I will be effective and still use other pools?

Others have said it here, and I concur with them. Mace Mastery is popular because low-health archetypes benefit more from defense than resistance, and Mace Mastery is the only epic power pool that provides a defense toggle rather than a resistance toggle.

 

That being said, it is by no means a necessity for anybody. If you're trying to farm +4/x8 on a squishy toon, then sure, you'll want all the defense you can get. But for players like me, and the majority of folks who don't farm, it's not needed. I took Mace Mastery on one character only, my TA/Archery Defender, and only because it fits thematically with the character (Mace Mastery is the only weapons-based epic for Defenders) and because it pairs well with Flash Arrow's ToHit debuff. My Crab Spider went with Leviathan Mastery, and my Night Widow doesn't have an epic pool at all. Both of them perform perfectly fine both solo and on teams.

 

Min-maxing is not a requirement whatsoever in this game. The overwhelming majority of the content in-game is balanced around SO enhancements; using IO's and building "the perfect character" is something people do for fun, and not because it's a requirement. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by GastlyGibus

[CaptainLupis]

17 hours ago, Nafsmar said:

A true hero would never turn evil even if it meant bettering himself. 

For me, from an in game perspective, Black Scorpion is the perfect route to take for a hero. You are fighting Crey and Malta, which you are already doing anyway as a hero, and you are stopping him getting his hands on advanced tech to improve his armour. Doesn't sound very evil to me.

[Twisted Toon]

18 hours ago, Nafsmar said:

I guess if I was a lobster I would love it!

But, Kheldians don't have access to Patrons or EPP...😁

[Six-Six]

5 minutes ago, Twisted Toon said:

But, Kheldians don't have access to Patrons or EPP...😁

I wondered about this when my first Kheld reached lvl 35. The answer I got was awesome: You don't need epic pools when you're an epic AT.

Whether it's true or not is up for debate, but the answer was epic in itself. 😃

 

[Twisted Toon]

21 minutes ago, Six Six said:

I wondered about this when my first Kheld reached lvl 35. The answer I got was awesome: You don't need epic pools when you're an epic AT.

Whether it's true or not is up for debate, but the answer was epic in itself. 😃

 

Kheldians already get access to more power choices than they can choose in their primary and secondary alone.

And more powers that they can toss a decent number of slots at, if they go Nova or Dwarf.

That is pretty epic.

 

Most epic of all, is that Peacebringers get fly at level 1.

[Six-Six]

@twisted Oh definitely. My kheld has long been an incarnate since. He's human-only (which from what I hear is like holding a kheld back from its true potential) and I think he's plenty stronk with just modest (read newb and cheap) slotting. the other thing holding him back is the dunderhead on the keyboard controlling him.

But I misread your original post intended to be a jest at the Dwarf form being the lobster. Sorry. just got up and coffee hadn't kicked in yet 😃

 

[EmmySky]

13 hours ago, Six Six said:

I concur. I see the existing epics/patrons very limited when it comes to theme and performance. a lot of them just don't seem to be "epic" at all.

Regardless of thematic, even just finding decent utility is hard on some of my toons.  There is no 'epic' pool that would fill a hole or add to their build significantly.

[Greycat]

18 minutes ago, Six Six said:

@twisted Oh definitely. My kheld has long been an incarnate since. He's human-only (which from what I hear is like holding a kheld back from its true potential)

 

Eh, depends. On a Peacebringer, not so much. Warshade, you're depriving yourself of another Mire. That's about it. There's probably some silly metagame "oh but you can't slot these mules you'll never use," too. *shrug*

 

Mind you, even when I try to play human only or biform, I end up playing triform - but that's from me enjoying it, not "not wanting to be held back."

[Ironblade]

22 hours ago, TIto Vendetta said:

SO, if I have filtered down most of what I am hearing in these responses,  its strictly the metagame aspect that i am seeing, and it is still a viable survivable solo build to stray from the BS pool, not necessarily effective for farming, I can feel confident I will be effective and still use other pools?

I can speak to the soloing aspect.  You can absolutely take other pools and be effective soloing.

As for farming, I dunno.  I farm so little I can't really address 'best practices' and 'best builds'.

[Greycat]

23 hours ago, TIto Vendetta said:

SO, if I have filtered down most of what I am hearing in these responses,  its strictly the metagame aspect that i am seeing, and it is still a viable survivable solo build to stray from the BS pool, not necessarily effective for farming, I can feel confident I will be effective and still use other pools?

People were perfectly viable and survivable before them, and before there was side switching available for heroes to get to them, so... yes. There is no power or pool that you must have or you will not be viable.

[Six-Six]

I suppose the reason why some epics are hands down more popular than others is utility. Energy Mastery is my go-to for my Brutes because of the utility. Same goes for Ninja Mastery for Sentinels as it can slot ATOs. More often than not, though, I tend to pick (if I decide to pick one at all) epics/patrons based on thematic, which adds a layer of flavour to the toon and not necessarily any powers worth using. 

A caveat on utility though: I saw a previous post about someone wanting more durability (from epics) for blasters. While I wouldn't mind, I think epics should supplement rather than complement the AT. Blasters pack pain, so blaster epics should enhance that instead of making them more durable... that's what the third power pools are for. Similarly, it irks me to find epics for brutes and scrappers that offer range attacks (again, personal opinion with which you need not agree on). I feel those don't add to my AT, just gives me a power pick for the sake of offering a power pick. I would rather the range attack be instead Foot Stomp or Savage Leap. Now that I think about it, some of the 5th powers from the third power pool seem more epic, like Relentless and Adrenal. Now those enhance my ATJust my take.

On other comments:
- I do have a Warshade waiting to tri-formed... as soon as I level up my current alts, and I get the courage to commit.
- soloing, a lot of ATs are very survivable with just their primary and secondary powers. tertiary pools are mandatory picks at certain levels, but are otherwise unnecessary. same with epic/patron pools.

And my mind/savage Dominator is greatly disappointed that Leviathan Patron pool does not let her control sharks

 

[ForeverLaxx]

8 hours ago, Greycat said:

Warshade, you're depriving yourself of another Mire.

I prefer human-only even on the Warshade because transforming into a giant lobster just for a very short duration Mire was too much hassle. The only time I miss not having lobster form is when I get CC'd since you can transform into one to break out of it.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

On 8/5/2020 at 9:08 AM, Nafsmar said:

A true hero would never turn evil even if it meant bettering himself. 

 

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

A well made build can still be a very thematic role play build.

 

For example my dark/bio scrapper is a praetorian, while a mutant, by birth he fled to the night ward to keep his unique gift from Cole's hands. There he developed some grasp on magic(swapped out mutie origin power for magic origin power, and took the patron pool of ghost widow as it represents delving into nether magic best as a side pool imo.) So while he is no great mage, he has just enough of a grasp on magic in his build I dont feel weird RPing with him as abit of a mix of david xavier of Legion mixxed with John Constantine,

[Zep]

On 8/5/2020 at 9:08 AM, Nafsmar said:

A true hero would never turn evil even if it meant bettering himself. 

I prefer to believe I was under cover double crossing Soroco. 

 

I dont have Mace on any of my characters.

[Shred Monkey]

On 8/5/2020 at 11:08 AM, Nafsmar said:

A true hero would never turn evil even if it meant bettering himself. 

I don't remember all the plots of the patron pools.  But in the ones I do recall, you're using badguy information to find and take out another badguy.  It's like undercover hero work.  I think running a Ms Lib TF can cover you to take out any of the badguys you pretended to follow and work with while undercover.

[Chris24601]

I have zero characters with Mace Mastery... my Archery/Tac Arrow Blaster went Munitions for the armor auto power so I could slot the two +3% defense IOs from the resist sets.

 

My Statesman heir from “Elysian Earth” (Rularuu, the Rikti and Praetoria never reached them because Primal Earth took care of them first) had her evil twin from “Tartaran Earth” (where Recluse took over everything) unlock the Patron Pools so both could wield Zeus’ lightning as intended.

 

My hi-tech Claws/WP scrapper went with Fire Mastery for built-in plasma blasters in addition to the forearm plasma blades.

 

My widow has no patron powers at all and, by their fluff, is faking the psi-attacks with a psychic generator she got in trade for helping Psimon-Omega (because she just barely qualified and only earned above average marks in running in high heels). Her bosses keep sending her to assist with actual Destined Ones schemes in the hopes she’ll meet a sticky end and be out of their hair, but she apparently has the survivability of a cockroach.

 

My Dhampyr Savage/Bio Stalker will be going Soul Mastery because it’s the easiest pool to recolor to look like blood magic (just like I did for Bio’s auras) and some actual ranged attacks to pick off runners will be useful.

 

My Magic Grav/Storm Controller will be going Blaze Mastery because it sticks with the whole “fundamental cosmic forces” theme way better than something like a Mace would (a funky wand maybe?) and some characters you just don’t want to bother with side switching.

 

So... yeah, Mace doesn’t even exist in my world of character creation.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

1 hour ago, Chris24601 said:

 

My Dhampyr Savage/Bio Stalker will be going Soul Mastery because it’s the easiest pool to recolor to look like blood magic (just like I did for Bio’s auras) and some actual ranged attacks to pick off runners will be useful.

 

 

Man I dont know what your drawing from for your idea of a Dhampyr but it doesnt sound like either the modern pop culture version based on vampire hunter D, nor any of the actual traditions practiced by the real Dhampyri, and by that I dont mean they actually were half vampire, but they did actually exist. They were basically wandering wisemen/witch doctors/shamans and yes snake oil salesmen type charlatans, They mainly practiced exercising evil spirits from homes, more then likely started the traditions for digging up corpses suspected of being vampires( still believed and practiced in parts of eastern europe to this day), and funny enough because they tended to be malnourished, in pour health, and always on the move, lent to the legend the picture of dirty, sickly, wild looking men, often having rotten teeth, and lacked finger nails because frost bite would be a common effect on homeless nomads in those regions during winter, so their fingers would often be discolored as well as having nothing close to claws.

 

But ironically they also tended to be among the best educated because of their traveling, and could  often read and write, often acting like postmen between the villages they traveled through as a way to earn additional favor with the people.

 

This has been your fun fact:) The more you know!

[Marshal_General]

We need sone epics based off of the Surviving Eight, or is it six now?

Synapse would have a def toggle.