Please make obsolete content playable again.

[Twisted Toon]

Lately, I've been grinding Fake Nemesis in PI for that stupid Unveiler badge.

Just so I can get one of the Stat altering Accolades.

 

That is a frustrating grind.

[Blackfeather]

5 minutes ago, Twisted Toon said:

Lately, I've been grinding Fake Nemesis in PI for that stupid Unveiler badge.

Just so I can get one of the Stat altering Accolades.

 

That is a frustrating grind.

Episode 5 of Pandora's Box has a lot of Fake Nemesis in them - much more efficient than hunting them down in Peregrine Island. Just go x8/-1 and you're golden, especially on a team.

[FoulVileTerror]

But, alas @Blackfeather, there is a minimum level gate on that, as it counts as a Task Force.

[Greycat]

*shrug*

 

THere's nothing unplayable. If you want to play it, play it. You're not forced to take an XP booster. You're not forced to do alignment changes via Null instead of running the missions.

As far as grinding specific content for costume pieces instead of having them at creation, or for Incarnate salvage, that being gone is a *huge* improvement.

 

Play what you want, how you want. You don't "lose" if someone else fire-farms on 2xp to 50 in an hour or whatever. You don't "win" by taking 500 hours to do the same journey. You *win* by having the game available to play the way you want.

 

The game gives you *choice,* not grind. This is not a bad thing.

[Sir Myshkin]

I know there are still a devout few who truly enjoy the story driven aspect of Red and Gold, or in general like to stick with theme and play a villain in the villain territories, but just as it was on Retail Live, the same impact is felt here: they are the minority base, and because we're considerably scaled down in volume (by contrast), it is even more-so felt now than it was before.

 

The Rogue Isles is a real killer contrast to Blue or Gold both thematically and visually. The Devs could place a vending machine in St. Martial that spits out a billion Influence a day and I wouldn't even change my alignment to pick it up because I (personally) just really dislike Redside; it depresses the heck out of me. I've never gotten a character above 15 over there, and even my one true Villain character I ever rolled on Retail I had to bring blue-side because I just couldn't do it, but wanted to have the character hit 50. The only red content I do, simply because I have no option in it, is occasionally running Black Scorpion's Patron Arc for the badge in 15 minutes which thankfully avoids a lot of travel, only hits four doors (one repeated multiple times), and uses a lot of Crey interiors.

 

When Praetoria first got introduced with Going Rogue I rolled a character on launch day and played through the arcs, and enjoyed it pretty immensely, even fit the character's path into their backstory and really felt it fleshed out in a nice way. I even went back and dabbled a bit in the alternate path to get a feel for the content over there, but once a player gets to the point of no return, there's nothing more to really continue doing, nor a reason to really go back. Since there is such a divide on what Praetoria is both functionally and story wise, hanging out in that zone just doesn't have an extreme amount of value, and that's why so few people really return to it.

 

Now if Portal Corp missions really did drop us off in Praetoria, and then we had to find the mission door there, that would be an interesting use of the zone...

 

[tl;dr] Anyway, mostly rambling on to say that there's not really anything that could be done to Red or Gold side that would validate--for me personally--playing in those zones. I happen to rather enjoy being able to relatively fly through to 50 on a character, and happily do so Blueside, knowing I can exemp down whenever needed without concern to recapture any content. Frankly, I'm not here for the missions and stories. For me it's more about just playing the game and clicking the buttons surrounded by other players.

 

 

[DSorrow]

6 hours ago, GuilmonDude said:

Leveling is much faster and the market is a lot more generous.

This is what enables the nostalgia for me. One and a half decades ago so many things were different: MMOs were new and the grind was a core part of the experience back then, plus I was a school kid with all the free time in the world to devote to the grind. These days, MMOs aren't new, grinding isn't a core element of all MMOs, and most of all, I really can't spare several hours every day playing games. If the grind was a necessity, I'd have to find another game because given my limited schedule, the game just couldn't live up to what I'd expect based on memories. 

[Gulbasaur]

2 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

The Rogue Isles is a real killer contrast to Blue or Gold both thematically and visually.

Welcome to Arachnos Land! Come see our giant caves and counterintuitive terrain!

 

It's just so bleak and inconvenient. The elevator fetishist who decided they needed to be everywhere really didn't think about it from a gameplay perspective. That and the broker system's arduous grind before you unlock the more interesting missions between every contact. 

 

The storytelling is good, compared to vanilla City of Heroes (but not later stuff, in my opinion - even the Hollows has a decent story). The zones feel indistinct, to me, anyway (which I know goes for vanilla Paragon City too where Steel, Kings and Skyway sort of smear into one in my mind). 

[Lines]

6 hours ago, Piecemeal said:

*coughs in foreshadowing*

I swear to god, Piecemeal, your posts fill me with emotions I didn't know I had.

[Carnifax]

I'd quite like Goldside contacts to become available as "normal" contacts for Blue and Red just purely for variety. Sticking Goldside into its own starting "game" was always a silly decision.

 

I know it doesn't make a huge amount of sense "lore-wise" given what Gold Side is, but if there was a way for a newish Blue or Redside character to choose a Goldside arc instead of going to Kings Row or Steel (yet again) it'd be a great option. 

 

Edit : Just don't spam-fill my "Find Contact" list with them a la First / Night Ward. That's deeply annoying

Edited August 10, 2020 by Carnifax

[Omega-202]

6 hours ago, Ironblade said:

Right, for the sake of profit.  I can't stand how Homecoming is fleecing me.

 

P.S.  As others have noted, you really do come across like a jerk and it impacts peoples perception of you.

...that's the point.  HC has no profit motive so there's no reason to use manipulative player retention tactics.  Hence why there's no need for an inflated grind.  

 

And regarding my demeanor, I honestly could not care how you perceive me.  

[Myrmidon]

Incarnate trial grinding? No thank you. I would rather not even both with the entire system than have to go through that again. The Gold-side mistake was making it another starting area instead a full-on Incarnate zone(s). If Kallisti Wharf ever gets upgraded, here’s to hoping the Homecoming team gives us another path for our journey as Incarnates protecting the City multiverse.

 

 

As someone that dropped Invention entirely and paid for Store-bought Origins (Attuned IOs) exclusively the moment that they were released, the current Invention system adjustments are just fine. Where grinding for things appeals to you, starting new characters with full Attuned IO builds before they even earn a single point of experience is my preferred method of play. Let’s adopt the “don’t show me yours and I won’t show you mine” Philosophy,  shall we?
 

 

As has been referenced in this thread and many times on the forums, there is no need for “the sky is falling” theories . City does NOT conform to the same statistical tendencies as other MMOs and is pretty unique in that regard. At the current donation rate, it would be a decade (likely two) before worry about not having enough of that would even be a consideration.

[Myrmidon]

*Deleted due to latency issues. Stupid wireless connection.*

Edited August 10, 2020 by Myrmidon

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

 

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Posted January 25

I would like to emphasize a relook at end-game in comparison to how chalenging and fun it can be at early levels compared to maxed-out where one shotting everything is all that isn't useless, nullifying pretty much build diversity, team-play, playstyles and any power that doesnt straight up blow up mobs. Which honestly is a lot of the face of CoH along with the costumization and community.

 

I dont know what the majority thinks but if people want an easy end-game where they grind solo only to be able to grind solo more will make the end-game stale very quickly. A simple difficulty increase might work but ultimately i think balancing around all archetypes so team-play and different builds matter again just like leveling should be priority.

Nostalgia and making new chars to properly team play won't keep the population afloat for too long, stuff like new powers, costumes and such certainly help but in the grand scheme of things looking at the bigger picture is more important. Especially if you guys plan to keep building on the end-game.

 

Curious I looked at your handful of posts, and all the way back in jan your first post is basically this same nonsense. What have you seen these last 8 months to make you think there is some issue with population stability?

 

 

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

25 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

Incarnate trial grinding? No thank you. I would rather not even both with the entire system than have to go through that again. The Gold-side mistake was making it another starting area instead a full-on Incarnate zone(s). If Kallisti Wharf ever gets upgraded, here’s to hoping the Homecoming team gives us another path for our journey as Incarnates protecting the City multiverse.

 

 

As someone that dropped Invention entirely and paid for Store-bought Origins (Attuned IOs) exclusively the moment that they were released, the current Invention system adjustments are just fine. Where grinding for things appeals to you, starting new characters with full Attuned IO builds before they even earn a single point of experience is my preferred method of play. Let’s adopt the “don’t show me yours and I won’t show you mine” Philosophy,  shall we?
 

 

As has been referenced in this thread and many times on the forums, there is no need for “the sky is falling” theories . City does NOT conform to the same statistical tendencies as other MMOs and is pretty unique in that regard. At the current donation rate, it would be a decade (likely two) before worry about not having enough of that would even be a consideration.

IMO it was the exact opposite of what you would of wanted that I think they needed to do. I think going rogue as a paid for expansion was just wrong after cov, a buy in for a new starter area and basically a extended tutorial campaign.

 

I think GR should of just been a free update, that was the new starting area for all players. I would of ended both paragon and RIs old tutorial starts completely. and had all new characters made from then on begin as praetorians who make their way to primal earth.

 

This would of keept all the players consolidated at the starting area, and might of even lead to more red siders n the long run. As far as I know most hate RIs start, and hell it seems a hell of a lot even ahte much of Paragons early content, as many still bitch about the hollows, Perez Park, Clockwork mishes in early levels etc.

 

I just think it would of been a real interesting shake up if we had basically said something like after the event when Power was taken from primal earth, while it was eventually restored, no new heroes seemed to rising. Basically making us need the refugees from praetoria to sustain our numbers.

[Coyotedancer]

Grinding the same iTrials over and over and over and over and over and over and over again was never fun.

 

Locking costume parts behind level-gated tasks in a game that's so largely ALL ABOUT its character customization possibilities was a pants-on-head level stupid idea.

 

If you want to wait multiple levels and have to do a pair of pretty uninteresting older missions before you use a cape or aura... You can do that. All it takes is a little self-imposed self-discipline. Likewise, waiting until 14 to get a travel power, not using the Roman costume parts until after you've done and ITF and any number of other "old school limitations". If you WANT that to be 'the way it is', you can make that choice for your own characters right now. No one is stopping you. 

 

Just because YOU love the idea of a long and difficult struggle to play the game doesn't mean the rest of us should have to.

 

Also... If you want a classic "grinder"-style MMO with an absolutely predatory in-game market, an RNG that hates its players and more "locked-behind-X" gear/costume options than you can shakes a stick at? Aion is that'a way ----->

 

City is not that game.

Nor should it ever be,

[ShardWarrior]

9 hours ago, Twisted Toon said:

Lately, I've been grinding Fake Nemesis in PI for that stupid Unveiler badge.

Just so I can get one of the Stat altering Accolades.

 

That is a frustrating grind.

Run the first two missions from Heldenjaeger in Steel Canyon.  That TF will get more than half way through Unveiler in a few minutes.

[Blackfeather]

9 hours ago, FoulVileTerror said:

But, alas @Blackfeather, there is a minimum level gate on that, as it counts as a Task Force.

Certainly that's true, but Peregrine Island is a level 41-50 zone anyhow (compared to the 40-50 level gate of the TF), so the only scenario where hunting Fake Nemesis in PI is more efficient than the task force is if you're on a Freedom Phalanx Reserve badge hunting team sidekicked up with a higher level character leading.

[Twisted Toon]

44 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Run the first two missions from Heldenjaeger in Steel Canyon.  That TF will get more than half way through Unveiler in a few minutes.

Huh, haven't done any SSAs, yet. I'll have to look into that.

[FoulVileTerror]

Indeed it is, @Blackfeather.   Indeed, it is.

I think it would be nice for a new player to join the friends who recruited them on Heldenjaeger's missions rather than idly sit around in Peregrine Island.

And before anyone asks "why are you even doing that with a new player to begin with," I direct toward the old adage of City:  As long as you do no harm, Play as thou willest.

 

I just think it would be nice to drop the level gates and encourage more cross-level teaming, especially now that the game isn't for-profit and we don't need to adhere to design decisions made strictly for artificially constructing a sense of progression as a means toward player retention.  I think it would be healthier for the game if people could have greater personal freedom in how they interact with the content, form their opinion on whether they like the game or not, and choose to stay for sustainable reasons instead of psychological tricks meant to exploit human behaviours.

 

As said, Homecoming isn't profiting from this game.  But that fact alone doesn't remove any of the existing mechanics which -were- designed during the for-profit era.  As I have tried to do from the start, I advocate for the critical analysis and wholesale removal of any mechanic which solely served the for-profit design philosophy.  SCoRE and Homecoming, to their credit, have done that in many, many places.  I wish to encourage they continue taking those steps.

[Apparition]

I am actually in favor of level gating.  Just about every level gate removal or lowering (RWZ, lowering the level requirement to 35 for the Lady Grey TF), has proven to be a big mistake IMO.

[Lines]

1 minute ago, Apparition said:

I am actually in favor of level gating.  Just about every level gate removal or lowering (RWZ, lowering the level requirement to 35 for the Lady Grey TF), has proven to be a big mistake IMO.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you - I think I'm pretty neutral on the matter - but why do you say this?

[Apparition]

14 minutes ago, Lines said:

Not that I'm disagreeing with you - I think I'm pretty neutral on the matter - but why do you say this?

Because content was originally designed for certain level ranges.  Mothership raids were designed for level 35+.  Since the level gate restriction was removed from the RWZ, you see a bunch of people bringing low level toons, some as low as level one, and use it as nothing other than a farm.  What exactly is a level two, or even level 15, Scrapper going to bring to a mothership raid?  Very little to nothing.  That is why I always restricted my MSRs to level 35+, even after the level restriction from the RWZ was removed in Issue 16.

 

With the lowering of the level restriction for the LGTF to level 35, teams are running into the brick wall that is the weakened Hamidon.  Hamidon was designed for level 50.  I have heard of teams in the lower 40s that didn’t know any better being repeatedly annihilated.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

27 minutes ago, FoulVileTerror said:

Indeed it is, @Blackfeather.   Indeed, it is.

I think it would be nice for a new player to join the friends who recruited them on Heldenjaeger's missions rather than idly sit around in Peregrine Island.

And before anyone asks "why are you even doing that with a new player to begin with," I direct toward the old adage of City:  As long as you do no harm, Play as thou willest.

 

I just think it would be nice to drop the level gates and encourage more cross-level teaming, especially now that the game isn't for-profit and we don't need to adhere to design decisions made strictly for artificially constructing a sense of progression as a means toward player retention.  I think it would be healthier for the game if people could have greater personal freedom in how they interact with the content, form their opinion on whether they like the game or not, and choose to stay for sustainable reasons instead of psychological tricks meant to exploit human behaviours.

 

As said, Homecoming isn't profiting from this game.  But that fact alone doesn't remove any of the existing mechanics which -were- designed during the for-profit era.  As I have tried to do from the start, I advocate for the critical analysis and wholesale removal of any mechanic which solely served the for-profit design philosophy.  SCoRE and Homecoming, to their credit, have done that in many, many places.  I wish to encourage they continue taking those steps.

Actually the real issue becomes balance. Imagine a less uber lvl 50 bringing a bunch of side kicks way under level along on some high end arc. They end up wiping, and their response almost certainly will be to come demand the content is made easy enough that even on an x8 dif scale with only one below average 50 should be able to carry a bunch of lvl 5s.

 

Happens every time we see players biting off more then their build is capable of and acting like the issue isnt one behind their keyboard.

[Myrmidon]

1 hour ago, Coyotedancer said:

Grinding the same iTrials over and over and over and over and over and over and over again was never fun.

 

Locking costume parts behind level-gated tasks in a game that's so largely ALL ABOUT its character customization possibilities was a pants-on-head level stupid idea.

 

If you want to wait multiple levels and have to do a pair of pretty uninteresting older missions before you use a cape or aura... You can do that. All it takes is a little self-imposed self-discipline. Likewise, waiting until 14 to get a travel power, not using the Roman costume parts until after you've done and ITF and any number of other "old school limitations". If you WANT that to be 'the way it is', you can make that choice for your own characters right now. No one is stopping you. 

 

Just because YOU love the idea of a long and difficult struggle to play the game doesn't mean the rest of us should have to.

 

Also... If you want a classic "grinder"-style MMO with an absolutely predatory in-game market, an RNG that hates its players and more "locked-behind-X" gear/costume options than you can shakes a stick at? Aion is that'a way ----->

 

City is not that game.

Nor should it ever be,

Aion. The trash that was used to justify shutting down City the first time.

If I was dying and the only way to survive was to play that game, I would be pushing up daisies.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

3 minutes ago, Apparition said:

Because content was originally designed for certain level ranges.  Mothership raids were designed for level 35+.  Since the level gate restriction was removed from the RWZ, you see a bunch of people bringing low level toons, some as low as level one, and use it as nothing other than a farm.  What exactly is a level two, or even level 15, Scrapper going to bring to a mothership raid?  Very little to nothing.  That is why I always restricted my MSRs to level 35+, even after the level restriction from the RWZ was removed in Issue 16.

 

With the lowering of the level restriction for the LGTF to level 35, teams are running into the brick wall that is the weakened Hamidon.  Hamidon was designed for level 50.  I have heard of teams in the lower 40s that didn’t know any better being repeatedly annihilated.

Gawd damn it I hate when I have to concur with this guy. But yeah Ive run no few lgtf, and taken more thena  few 35s on the teams as I work with whats online and meets the bare min reqs often with puggles. And I have seen hami lite, wreck so so so many players every run. And seen many say they would love to see things like his multi colored protectors not need special tactics to kill.

 

Its why now days i almost only run the lgtf with a character who can do all 3 colors solo to insure victoryso others dont end up getting grumbly.