Daredevil - Scrapper or Stalker?

[Haijinx]

Yeah.  There is a difference between shade and shadow.  

 

You'd have to assume his radar sense gives him enough of a 3D overview of his surroundings he can predict where the Shadows are. 

 

It would however give him an advantage in LOS perhaps since its usually stated to be 360 degrees.  

 

Of course the way its presented in the Netflix show would be problematic for this idea ..   

 

 

[Marshal_General]

14 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Yeah.  There is a difference between shade and shadow.  

 

You'd have to assume his radar sense gives him enough of a 3D overview of his surroundings he can predict where the Shadows are. 

That only Works if he can predict where the light sources are.

[Haijinx]

8 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

That only Works if he can predict where the light sources are.

so in the daytime? since he could feel the sun?

[ClawsandEffect]

On 9/16/2020 at 5:07 PM, Haijinx said:

so in the daytime? since he could feel the sun?

Trying to be stealthy by hiding in shadows in broad daylight is dumb. Even the deepest shade in the daytime is going to make a guy in a bright red costume pretty freaking obvious. 

 

As I said before, Daredevil's stealth comes more from being very quiet and coming at people from unexpected angles. I can see just fine and I can almost always tell when someone is behind me by the little noises they make as they move that you don't consciously register. If Daredevil can avoid making those noises he's ahead of the game as far as stealth is concerned. He also almost always attacks from above or behind. It doesn't matter how visible you are if no one is looking in your direction. 

 

Daredevil wasn't born blind. He may not have the best memory of what red looks like, but he certainly remembers that it is a bright color. Since the costumes he is most often associated with are bright red and bright yellow and red it is fairly obvious (at least to me) that stealthily hiding in shadows was never part of his M.O. 

[Haijinx]

Hmmm.  Yeah.  Its hopeless.  Daredevil makes no sense.  

 

Still I liked the Netflix take on him.   

 

Which is saying something since I had gradually started hating Daredevil over the years.  

 

 

[BrandX]

They want to make him cool, but don't want to give him to many weaknesses.  Which, they should just go with those weaknesses.  "Cut the red wire?!"  He can pull out his phone and call a friend!  Or just be screwed in that situation.  😛

 

The chemicals enhanced his reflexes right?  Not just his senses?

 

Make the player version a bit cooler.  Not just peak human strength/reflexes/durability...but just above peak, to low superhuman 🙂  

[Sir Myshkin]

11 hours ago, ClawsandEffect said:

Trying to be stealthy by hiding in shadows in broad daylight is dumb. Even the deepest shade in the daytime is going to make a guy in a bright red costume pretty freaking obvious. 

Sometimes even something that seems like it'd be blatantly obvious, is obviously missed. Not necessarily defending "bright red costume" but it's not impossible for someone to completely overlook a given detail (or, as I'd sooner put it: people are dumb and easily fooled).

 

 

[ClawsandEffect]

In Superman's case it is entirely believable, because his disguise has almost nothing to do with the suit and glasses. It's his mannerisms and how he carries himself. 

 

He slouches and does anything he can to make himself appear shorter. He scrunches his neck up and makes his jawline look softer. He stutters deliberately. He makes a point of visibly flinching at loud noises. In short, he acts like a little bitch. 

 

No one would ever associate that person with someone who can take a tank shell to the face without blinking. 

 

Then when the glasses come off he stands up to his full height, speaks confidently and distinctly and nothing fazes him. 

 

In Superman's case it's not about people being dumb and easily fooled. It's about using their own perception and unconscious assumptions against them. 

 

 

[Haijinx]

Nah.  Superman's disguise is dumb too.

 

 

Extremely well acted in those particular movies, enough to make you want to believe.  

 

But dumb.

[Gwyrddu]

Superman doesn't need his heat vision to burn people.

 

 

[Sovera]

While I'm typically lukewarm about DD (and Batman, and most 'normal' people who put on tights and go fight crime), this comic I read when I was a kid was pure bad assery. The detail of the club shattering with each impact was exquisite.
 

Spoiler

 

 

[TheMuna]

On 9/10/2020 at 1:13 PM, ClawsandEffect said:

Daredevil is 100% a Scrapper. 

 

Him using shadows to hide in is one of the dumbest things I've seen (not from you guys, from the comics). He is blind with ZERO light perception. How can you use a shadow to conceal yourself when you have no idea where the shadows are? He could have a floodlight pointed right at him and never know it if it was far enough away to not detect the heat. 

 

He fights mostly at night because he doesn't rely on sight and nighttime is generally darker, but he doesn't (or shouldn't) know exactly how well lit any given location is. 

This is a funny take but if you go by the level of his other senses from the Netflix version, he would definitely know where the light is.  

 

He could hear the faint electric whizzing from bulbs and tell how powerful they are. The slight change in temperature from the light would also be noticable to him. And from all his training he'd know what level of light corresponds to what other humans would need to see. So, considering the level of ability that they gave him and his training with Stick, I think it made sense.

[ShardWarrior]

I would say StrJ/Nin scrapper.  Ninjitsu makes more sense in that he was trained by Stick who used to be part of the Hand, who are ninjas.  Also because of his ability to heal himself faster than normal.  Speaking of Daredevil, I always thought the game could use a clubs/escrima type melee set.  Could start by porting over several animations from dual blades and staff fighting.

Edited October 8, 2020 by ShardWarrior

[MunkiLord]

On 9/19/2020 at 6:28 AM, Haijinx said:

Nah.  Superman's disguise is dumb too.

 

 

Extremely well acted in those particular movies, enough to make you want to believe.  

 

But dumb.

I don't disagree, but Henry Cavill put it to the test:  https://www.techtimes.com/articles/141743/20160317/clark-kent-glasses-nobody-recognizes-henry-cavil-hiding-plain-sight.htm

[Haijinx]

29 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

I don't disagree, but Henry Cavill put it to the test:  https://www.techtimes.com/articles/141743/20160317/clark-kent-glasses-nobody-recognizes-henry-cavil-hiding-plain-sight.htm

Peter Frampton stayed at my Wife's hotel.  He decided to just walk down to the Walmart.  When people were surprised he evidently just said, "No one knows who I am anymore." 

 

But he's on those Geico commercials dammit! 

[subbacultchas]

I'm torn, I could see him easily being MA or STJ, SR or NIN and it would work. I lean toward MA/SR though if I had to absolutely pick. SR because his senses, reflexes, and agility are simply not human, but a result of the chemical he was blinded with. It's not something that could be trained for, it's Super with that capital S. And although boxing is one of his styles, he's overall a pretty versatile martial artist, so MA fits.

But I'm honestly not mad at any of those four in conjunction.

Edited October 8, 2020 by subbacultchas

[Troo]

Heroes are scrappers.. mic drop

[Cakes]

what about nightcrawler? scrapper or stalker?

[Vulpoid]

23 minutes ago, Cakes said:

what about nightcrawler? scrapper or stalker?

DM/SR Scrapper with Teleport.

[BrandX]

25 minutes ago, Vulpoid said:

DM/SR Scrapper with Teleport.

 

Dark Melee?  He's Martial Artist, Katana or Dual Blades/SR with Teleport.  His BAMF doesn't give any dark melee style punches.

[Vulpoid]

15 minutes ago, BrandX said:

Dark Melee?  He's Martial Artist, Katana or Dual Blades/SR with Teleport. 

Yes you are right. But he should be Dark Melee gosh darn it!

[Cakes]

I was thinking savage melee/dark armor stalker at first... but im not too sure on the stalker part

[beradical]

Hmm, by the dominant logic here, are we to assume that Wolverine is a Brute?? Nah, I think he is the archetypal scrapper, like his arch-nemesis Sabretooth. They charge straight into a fight. I think Hulk is the ideal brute, and Superman is more known for his toughness and super strength than raw damage output, so I'll classify him as Tanker.

 

So are we to pit Daredevil in the same class as Wolverine? Not even close folks. DD is a Stalker, and yes, we Stalkers love to scrap head on. Ya'll are talking like Stalkers get AS in and turn and run off lmao.  We just don't like to announce our presence and charge in, which is why we don't get taunt. Likewise Nightcrawler has to be Stalker. They use stealth/surprise for max burst damage, including placate for mid-battle rehide -> burst. Aka TP away, TP foe. Or hide in shadows.

 

Batman is the tougher call, cause he loves his stealthy burst damage, but he's Wolverine scrappy and tough. I'd still lean towards /Devices Stalker, because he just isn't that tanky without a full on mech suit.

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, beradical said:

Hmm, by the dominant logic here, are we to assume that Wolverine is a Brute?? Nah, I think he is the archetypal scrapper, like his arch-nemesis Sabretooth. They charge straight into a fight. I think Hulk is the ideal brute, and Superman is more known for his toughness and super strength than raw damage output, so I'll classify him as Tanker.

 

So are we to pit Daredevil in the same class as Wolverine? Not even close folks. DD is a Stalker, and yes, we Stalkers love to scrap head on. Ya'll are talking like Stalkers get AS in and turn and run off lmao.  We just don't like to announce our presence and charge in, which is why we don't get taunt. Likewise Nightcrawler has to be Stalker. They use stealth/surprise for max burst damage, including placate for mid-battle rehide -> burst. Aka TP away, TP foe. Or hide in shadows.

 

Batman is the tougher call, cause he loves his stealthy burst damage, but he's Wolverine scrappy and tough. I'd still lean towards /Devices Stalker, because he just isn't that tanky without a full on mech suit.

 

A lot of that will depend on the writer at the time.

 

No, Daredevil and Wolverine aren't close, but that can just be a matter of Set and IOs 😛

 

There's a lot of room between Scrappers and Stalkers for a lot of heroes/villains.  Same for Scrappers and Brutes.

 

I'd consider Batman a Stalker in CoH setting myself, but I'm sure plenty will side with Scrapper.

 

Hulk.  Brute.  Except, I think Smart Hulk may be more Tanker.

 

Sabertooth could be Scrapper or Brute.  Wolverine I'd go straight Scrapper, but I'm sure that there are those who feel his Rage is Fury.

[beradical]

40 minutes ago, BrandX said:

I'm sure that there are those who feel his Rage is Fury

 

This is actually a really solid point, the mechanics are the best clue we have. Straight up damage and survivability overlap a lot between the various ATs and sets, I have stalkers way tougher than my fire brute. And my proc'd out Defender does better ST dmg (solo) than my elec stalker. 

 

So applying mechanics:

Wolverine clearly gets enraged, which could be considered fury making him a brute. The question is does his fighting style lend itself more to fury than crits? I say no, he loves his head-shots and joint-shots, he's just an angry scrapper.

 

Hulk doesn't seem to aim his shots for crits, he just smashes, and gets particularly nasty when angry, so I think the mechanics are clearly brute.

 

And DD is clearly crit-based. So the question is does he use more stealth/hide/placate tactics for his crits, or straight up melee for crits? I remember quite a few fights where DD killed the lights to use stealth to his advantage, and he definitely has stealth/hide mechanics. But I also remember even more fights where he used/threw his baton mid-battle for nasty crits and headshots. So despite being far squishier than Wolverine, he might just be a /SR scrapper whose toughness is limited solely to avoidance, and weak against an enemy with massive ToHit leveling out his defense, aka Bullseye or even Punisher. Who are both Blasters? The mythical ranged Scrapper that ya'll have been dreaming about?