Daredevil - Scrapper or Stalker?

[Fergz99]

We were talking about this last night I think he is a MA/Ninja or SJ/SR scrapper but others were saying he is staff/ninja or SJ/Inv stalker.

 

What do you guys think

[biostem]

Well, Daredevil's signature weapon is that combo/multi-billy club weapon, but he also fights with his hands and fists, so it's a tough call there, (probably hands & feet).  While, IMO, he certainly uses stealth and shadows/darkness to his advantage, he can also hold his own in a straight-up fight.  The thing is that he's not really heavily armored and lacks any kind of healing factor, so a stalker may better epitomize his hit-and-run style.

[BrandX]

Either would work.  Stalkers can hold their own in a straight up fight.

 

Scrappers do seem to be of the tougher variety.  So, likely it's a matter of Scrapper in his own book and Stalker when he's teamed up with more powerful group.

[Omega Force]

Influenced by his MCU TV appearance, I'd make him Street Justice/Willpower.  You could go War Mace, but those animations are too slow to feel right for him.  Like most street level heroes he is stealthy, but it doesn't seem quite as integral to him.  I'd probably go scrapper.

[EmperorSteele]

Yeah, he gets in dude's faces, like a Scrapper. Doesn't really attack from the shadows or anything like, say, Batman. Though he IS good at vanishing when he needs to, so, you could still make an argument for Stalker.

 

My first instinct for a secondary would be SR, because his whole shtick is "reading people" and dodging BEFORE they even attack. Though I guess he's still limited by what his body can actually do, so it's not like he's matrix-dodging anything, as SR implies.

[Bill Z Bubba]

SJ/SR scrapper would be my choice. I keep remembering his fights with Kingpin who was absolutely a WP/StJ tank.

[Sovera]

Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker. He is constantly using the shadows and breaking lights to fight in the darkness. Martial Arts might fit too, but it's a bit too showy with the kicks and the devs were smoking a tall bowl when they put in those alternate punch animations if they thought it looked martial arts ish. He is a very nitty gritty fighter.

 

Staff could fit, but nah, too much breakdancing for our dude.

[BrandX]

Dual Weapons with billy club options.  I believe it had a couple smashing damage looking weapon skins.

[Doomguide2005]

I'd say scrapper, best fit /SR.  As for the using the shadows and darkness bit I don't find that Stalker-ish as much as tactical, let's make them blind as well. 

 

But mostly he's Daredevil/Daredevil.  Like most literary characters he was created outside of any specific game system.  All we can do is have fun debating whether he's a Scrapper, Stalker, or other as a best fit to our mindseye vision of him.  

 

 

[Sir Myshkin]

I've always had the mindset that a Scrapper is a character who's in for the fight, and a Stalker is a character who'd rather avoid the fight. Daredevil is definitely the "in for a fight" type of character [Scrapper]. Also, Street/Ninjitsu if you go for the Netflix DD, Street/SR if you go for the Comic version.

[Haijinx]

What really matters in the MCU version is that Karen Page is a badass/wesley killer.

 

[Marshal_General]

Go /nin so that he can scrap and stealth when he wants to.

[ClawsandEffect]

Daredevil is 100% a Scrapper. 

 

Him using shadows to hide in is one of the dumbest things I've seen (not from you guys, from the comics). He is blind with ZERO light perception. How can you use a shadow to conceal yourself when you have no idea where the shadows are? He could have a floodlight pointed right at him and never know it if it was far enough away to not detect the heat. 

 

He fights mostly at night because he doesn't rely on sight and nighttime is generally darker, but he doesn't (or shouldn't) know exactly how well lit any given location is. 

[Haijinx]

3 minutes ago, ClawsandEffect said:

Daredevil is 100% a Scrapper. 

 

Him using shadows to hide in is one of the dumbest things I've seen (not from you guys, from the comics). He is blind with ZERO light perception. How can you use a shadow to conceal yourself when you have no idea where the shadows are? He could have a floodlight pointed right at him and never know it if it was far enough away to not detect the heat. 

 

Had never considered this. 

 

Its very true.  Also kind of makes his success at hiding rather dubious.  At night, sure.  In the day?  It seems unlikely since vision is far longer ranged than any other sense.  

[Six-Six]

he's got heightened senses in lieu of his eyesight... so he can taste where the shadows are.

Reminds me of The Who's Pinball Wizard:
He aint got no distractions, 
Can't hear those buzzers and bells,
Don't see no lights a-flashing,

He plays by sense of smell,

... that deaf, dumb, and blind kid sure plays a mean pinball

[ClawsandEffect]

9 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Had never considered this. 

 

Its very true.  Also kind of makes his success at hiding rather dubious.  At night, sure.  In the day?  It seems unlikely since vision is far longer ranged than any other sense.  

His stealth has to do with the fact that he is very quiet, and he banks on the fact that people very rarely look up. That much he could tell just by simple observation, because he can certainly tell what direction someone is facing and/or looking. Ever notice that his sneak attacks are always from behind or above? 

 

All that is why I really appreciated the Netflix series version of him. It's a much more realistic depiction of someone with enhanced senses but no vision and how they would fight. He still takes hits because his senses aren't perfect and can be fooled occasionally. Imagine how much information he has to sort through in any given fight, especially against multiple opponents. 

 

Comics Daredevil is a Martial Arts/Super Reflexes Scrapper. 

Netflix series Daredevil is a Street Justice/Willpower Scrapper. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by ClawsandEffect

[Haijinx]

11 minutes ago, Six Six said:

he's got heightened senses in lieu of his eyesight... so he can taste where the shadows are.

Reminds me of The Who's Pinball Wizard:
He aint got no distractions, 
Can't hear those buzzers and bells,
Don't see no lights a-flashing,

He plays by sense of smell,

... that deaf, dumb, and blind kid sure plays a mean pinball

The new black licorice skittles - 

taste the shadow ..

 

 

[Gwyrddu]

5 hours ago, ClawsandEffect said:

Him using shadows to hide in is one of the dumbest things I've seen (not from you guys, from the comics). He is blind with ZERO light perception. How can you use a shadow to conceal yourself when you have no idea where the shadows are? He could have a floodlight pointed right at him and never know it if it was far enough away to not detect the heat. 

 

He fights mostly at night because he doesn't rely on sight and nighttime is generally darker, but he doesn't (or shouldn't) know exactly how well lit any given location is. 

Most but not all blind people can tell whether they are in light or shadow. Unless they specifically say that Daredevil can't tell light from shadow it's not an assumption you could make just based on his blindness, even if his other senses weren't also heightened.

[Marshal_General]

13 hours ago, Gwyrddu said:

Most but not all blind people can tell whether they are in light or shadow. Unless they specifically say that Daredevil can't tell light from shadow it's not an assumption you could make just based on his blindness, even if his other senses weren't also heightened.

According to what I just read, only about 18% of blind people are totally blind.

[Vulpoid]

I am very pale and pasty, a celtic ginger. Even without super senses, I can feel light on my skin. Certainly sunlight and often fluorescent lights too. ( They whine anyway, so Daredevil would hear them easily.)  Matt Murdock is Irish and a ginger as well.
I don't think it is at all odd to think that Daredevil could know when he was in light or shadow based on  ambient temperature on exposed skin ( Which I know is not much based on his costume.)

[Sovera]

12 minutes ago, Vulpoid said:

I am very pale and pasty, a celtic ginger. Even without super senses, I can feel light on my skin. Certainly sunlight and often fluorescent lights too. ( They whine anyway, so Daredevil would hear them easily.)  Matt Murdock is Irish and a ginger as well.
I don't think it is at all odd to think that Daredevil could know when he was in light or shadow based on  ambient temperature on exposed skin ( Which I know is not much based on his costume.)

In the comics he call tell colors by the temperature in a semi comic book science BS related to how darker lights absorb more heat, but it was shown it takes a while for him to figure it out. Detecting if he is under a light should not be something he can spot all of a sudden, though we have been shown he could detect the heat the lamp gives off (less and less a thing as we move to LEDs).

 

The comics sometimes try to put in in flaws with powers but they rarely are consistent. The Flash is constantly under a 'I cannot move too fast otherwise I create tornadoes in my wake and the sonic booms would shatter windows', but these never materialize when he fights bad guys at stupid speeds. Invisible Woman's forcefields allow light and sound to pass so she can be taken down by those, but we rarely see this come up other than plot requiring it. Superman is weak to magic, but it's completely lip service which happens according to plot where either the slightest thing is magic and cuts him, or he tanks magical lightning/blasts and comes out of a bit woozy, shakes it off, then proceeds to win.

 

Daredevil has had some nice touches over the years. 'Press the green button!' and he's welp! Bad guy gets away in a car and the cop shakes Daredevil, 'What color and make of car was it!?' and he is welp! In one of the most recent Hawkeye comics Clint is dressed as Ronin after a HUUUUUGE plot of him pretending not to be Ronin, lying about it, hiring a Skrull to impersonate him, even using time travel, only for him to be on a rooftop unmasked and as Ronin to have DD go 'hey' and Clint nearly has a hear attack (it was really well done 😄 ). DD proceeds to talk normally with him while Clint is like, wut??

[Nemeroff]

In the comics at least, I don't have Netflix, sorry, but part of his heighten senses was enhanced reflexes. He COULD use the cable wire in the club to spin in front of him like a propeller and block a bullet. But not a whole clip.

 

For a while he had amnesia, was a blind folded boxer, and had an African American girl friend (Nyla Skin). But he admitted to her something about how whereas he can sense and be aware of things around him he can't see colors. She panicked to herself, "He doesn't know I'm black!"

 

Moving silently, taking out the lights, and fighting in the shadows/darkness are his advantage being blind. Which is like invisible to his enemies but if it's daylight and/or the lights are on he can't turn invisible.

 

And because of that I always thought he was MA/SR, or StJ/SR Scrapper.

 

EDIT: he does fight with the club, but he's a fast fighter (good reflexes) and ingame imo maybe Staff but WM and TW are too slow.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Nemeroff

[Vulpoid]

Edited September 13, 2020 by Vulpoid

[Sir Myshkin]

I was always more a fan of this costume:

 

Having armored sections and plating just made more sense to me over spandex costumes, but I think this design massively suffered from the artists given DD at the time as many of those runs with this design weren't the best art work (in my opinion). This design was super easy to make look bad, and some drew it where the plating came out of the suit, and others (like above) where it appropriately layered over it. I also get the original designs (yellow/red and all red) also stemmed from the era they were born in, which leant more to ease of reproduction. Eventually later (newer, more modern) renditions of the red DD outfit have seen sectioning, piping, leather work transitions, etc to give it depth which helped. The Netflix adaptation of the suit is what I'd see as the ideal interpretation from a realistic application. Layers, tight-weave fabrics (both organic and metal weaves), and a head piece that doesn't look like gets torn on one punch (and actually, just maybe protects the skull a little). Serializing that kind of look drawn by hand is complicated though, so it's a real give and take.

[ClawsandEffect]

On 9/10/2020 at 6:02 PM, Gwyrddu said:

Most but not all blind people can tell whether they are in light or shadow. Unless they specifically say that Daredevil can't tell light from shadow it's not an assumption you could make just based on his blindness, even if his other senses weren't also heightened.

Not based on just being blind. Based on the fact that he has been described as having zero light perception. 

 

He can tell whether he is standing in direct sunlight or shade based on the temperature. Hell I can do that without relying on my eyes. 

 

He can tell whether the lights are on in a given room based on the hum they give off and maybe ambient heat. 

 

Neither of those things means he knows whether he is in shadows or not. Standing in shade on a sunny day isn't very stealthy, and the lights being off in a room doesn't necessarily mean it is pitch black.