Seeing that an 8 player team defeated Hami - What do the Devs think of the power creep ?

[Hew]

7 hours ago, Crysis said:

Are we even playing the same game?

 

Perma-mezz hasn’t been an issue in a long time.  Between empowerment stations, P2W, super break free inspirations, Clarion, Sorcery pool etc.....any AT can avoid mezz.  It requires choices, load out planning based on mission and critter type, pool/power selections etc.  And with the relatively common ability to max out positional and/or typed DEF, mezz attacks that don’t land have zero impact.

 

Now if you want more challenge, take your risks with RNGesus and go commando and hope the Carnies don’t brain gangbang you.  Or take any one of the very available mezz countermeasures and deal with it.

 

”Not so much” is basically the same as “I don’t wanna.”  That’s fine, do or don’t, but please don’t make believe it’s an insurmountable challenge.  

I use none of the suggestions posted here whatsoever. If I get mez'd, I hope a teammate comes and saves my bacon. I just don't care to minmax that much. I want to play, not endlessly game the system to try and find ways to fill deficiencies in my build. Some minmax? Sure. The ONLY thing along these lines I will put effort into is -kb, because hey, its like 2 ios  to slot. 

 

Hacking at what I perceive to be the fun of a build to fill something like that irks me. I will just play in a team (preferentially), or hope I can convert to some form of regular break free if I get in trouble.

 

[The_Warpact]

I'll say it again since my post got punt kicked off the field by Taco.(the important part not the rant btw)

 

If you had a team of Captain America, Deadshot, Doctor Light, Baron Zemo, Wizard, Green Arrow, etc you would need 50 of these type heroes/villains to take on a powerful entity.

 

BUT, if you have Superman, Hulk, Juggernaut, Shazam, etc on a team then obviously they wouldn't need 50 heroes/villains. 

 

The above set is casual players, door sitting farm kids, weekend peeps, etc sprinkled with some hard-core peeps to lead them.

 

The second set is your game mechanic knowing, min max, 1 bil build, can tell you everything about anything number crunching knowledge monster.

 

On live I was a casual player, now I am on almost daily, haunt these forums daily, etc.

On live I couldn't solo anything and needed my VG for help ie inf, builds, enh etc, now I solo GMs, run duo or tri team TFs, farm inf, etc.

 

Knowledge is the key, I do not expect everyone to play like I do nor do I want them to.

 

I take it as a source of pride for ME that I can do the things I do, because, I worked hard to do it.

 

Let people play how they want, if you don't like it then that's on you and not a group of volunteers who are nice enough to do what they do for a bunch of strangers.

If you don't like that answer then go make your own server and tinker around till you get the nerf or challenge that you desire, just don't expect everyone to follow.

 

[Johnny]

I guess there are only screenshots available, and no video. Myself, I would have liked a "making of" youtube video that elaborated on the team's process, issues, etc. However, producing a video is a lot of work, so I don't fault anyone for not having it. Just a wish list thing. It would also be good to know the amount of time required for the planning, prep work, etc.

 

As Luminara was saying, it's not really something new with respect to power creep, and is actually a point of distinction from other MMOs, where players (and their roles) are not pigeonholed into learning and performing a specific "dance" in order to achieve an optimal win, as dictated by the "community."

 

Whether an 8-man team, or a full raid, the important aspect is that both require collaboration and coordination. For full raids, there is work involved with X number of players to advertise an event (especially when it's a regular activity), then for them to get in position early before the participants show up (assuming enough people show), organize the teams, explain/review the tactics, and signal what people should be doing at a given phase of the fight.

 

For the 8-man team, it doesn't have the PUG aspect of random people that might need to be taught tactics. Instead, the 8-man is developing an unconventional strategy, apparently with things like Warburg prep work (to get the nukes), etc. So they had to organize themselves to complete that prep work, be fully versed in their Hami strategy, and be prepared to rework flaws in their strategy. It isn't clear whether this team had to redo their strategy, repeating their setup, etc.

 

I'd somewhat expect a min-maxed Incarnate team to achieve success with less than a full raid, given suitable tactics. Not saying this was necessarily an Incarnate team, but it would make sense from a Lore standpoint.

[Twisted Toon]

12 hours ago, Crysis said:

Are we even playing the same game?

 

Perma-mezz hasn’t been an issue in a long time.  Between empowerment stations, P2W, super break free inspirations, Clarion, Sorcery pool etc.....any AT can avoid mezz.  It requires choices, load out planning based on mission and critter type, pool/power selections etc.  And with the relatively common ability to max out positional and/or typed DEF, mezz attacks that don’t land have zero impact.

 

Now if you want more challenge, take your risks with RNGesus and go commando and hope the Carnies don’t brain gangbang you.  Or take any one of the very available mezz countermeasures and deal with it.

 

”Not so much” is basically the same as “I don’t wanna.”  That’s fine, do or don’t, but please don’t make believe it’s an insurmountable challenge.  

Except even Ice Armor Tanks at level 50+1 can get mezzed on occasion while fighting large (x8) groups of +4 Carnies.

Which can suck for the two other people fighting along side the mezzed tank.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

7 hours ago, Hew said:

I use none of the suggestions posted here whatsoever. If I get mez'd, I hope a teammate comes and saves my bacon. I just don't care to minmax that much. I want to play, not endlessly game the system to try and find ways to fill deficiencies in my build. Some minmax? Sure. The ONLY thing along these lines I will put effort into is -kb, because hey, its like 2 ios  to slot. 

 

Hacking at what I perceive to be the fun of a build to fill something like that irks me. I will just play in a team (preferentially), or hope I can convert to some form of regular break free if I get in trouble.

 

I mean I am always happy to help save an ally in trouble, but if I knew them to be thinking like you Id likely use them as veng bait and only rez them after fights got cleared. Basic build tips and tricks are not min maxing meta stuff. I mean absolutely worst case you should have your in game email loaded with useful inspirations that you can access inside mishes. It has been a common thing since emailing ourselves got added to the game. The Devs even said they saw it as a loophole but not an exploit when it came to having access to extra inspirations inside mishes.

 

It is so sop in the coh community, that you acting like its too much hassle to be bothered by, and that others should be eager and happy to help cover your lack of effort is the kind of thing that some might consider an aspect of a weak link team member.

[Hew]

20 minutes ago, Llewellyn Blackwell said:

I mean I am always happy to help save an ally in trouble, but if I knew them to be thinking like you Id likely use them as veng bait and only rez them after fights got cleared. Basic build tips and tricks are not min maxing meta stuff. I mean absolutely worst case you should have your in game email loaded with useful inspirations that you can access inside mishes. It has been a common thing since emailing ourselves got added to the game. The Devs even said they saw it as a loophole but not an exploit when it came to having access to extra inspirations inside mishes.

 

It is so sop in the coh community, that you acting like its too much hassle to be bothered by, and that others should be eager and happy to help cover your lack of effort is the kind of thing that some might consider an aspect of a weak link team member.

 

No, choosing clarion, or rune, or super inspirations should not be a requirement. Nor should NOT doing so be considered a burden on other teammates.

 

Regular inspirations? That is obviously expected to be part of life. Converting to get whatever you need to surive? Also part of life.

 

But (and this is the important part you cut out), indicating that a player must use power X, Y, or Z to mete weaknesses in a powerset or AT really doesn't count.

To put this again in context (which is not in your post here):

 

Perma-mezz hasn’t been an issue in a long time.  Between empowerment stations, P2W, super break free inspirations, Clarion, Sorcery pool etc.....any AT can avoid mezz.  It requires choices, load out planning based on mission and critter type, pool/power selections etc.  And with the relatively common ability to max out positional and/or typed DEF, mezz attacks that don’t land have zero impact.

 

Players may not have bases for empowerment stations. They may not have inf for P2W of the choice you seem to think is required. They may not want to take Sorcery, but perhaps one of the other origin pools. Clarion may not provide what they want for how they want their character to shine. _super break free insps_ may not be known to them, or they may just use, you know, regular break frees of varying sizes.

 

It has zero to do with being a "weak link". Implying that the only way to successfully play is to utilize one of the bolded, highlighted, underlined defenses is, well, not good. 

[Patti]

Even reg inspirations shouldn't be assumed.  They're too random and can be popped before theyreneeded or just none drop.

[Lockpick]

On 10/13/2020 at 11:00 AM, Coyotedancer said:

Preeeeetty sure Power Creep already exists on Everlasting, at least. I think I may even have PUGed with him once upon a time. 😝

It was unavailable, but I got The Power Creeper, a version of the Creeper, but with more, um, power...

[Doomguide2005]

5 hours ago, Lockpick said:

It was unavailable, but I got The Power Creeper, a version of the Creeper, but with more, um, power...

It's Halloween ... so who has Creepy Power?

[Crysis]

7 hours ago, Hew said:

 

No, choosing clarion, or rune, or super inspirations should not be a requirement. Nor should NOT doing so be considered a burden on other teammates.

 

Regular inspirations? That is obviously expected to be part of life. Converting to get whatever you need to surive? Also part of life.

 

But (and this is the important part you cut out), indicating that a player must use power X, Y, or Z to mete weaknesses in a powerset or AT really doesn't count.

To put this again in context (which is not in your post here):

 

Perma-mezz hasn’t been an issue in a long time.  Between empowerment stations, P2W, super break free inspirations, Clarion, Sorcery pool etc.....any AT can avoid mezz.  It requires choices, load out planning based on mission and critter type, pool/power selections etc.  And with the relatively common ability to max out positional and/or typed DEF, mezz attacks that don’t land have zero impact.

 

Players may not have bases for empowerment stations. They may not have inf for P2W of the choice you seem to think is required. They may not want to take Sorcery, but perhaps one of the other origin pools. Clarion may not provide what they want for how they want their character to shine. _super break free insps_ may not be known to them, or they may just use, you know, regular break frees of varying sizes.

 

It has zero to do with being a "weak link". Implying that the only way to successfully play is to utilize one of the bolded, highlighted, underlined defenses is, well, not good. 

You totally ignored the part about requiring choices.

 

You can choose to be self sufficient in mitigating almost anything in this game.  Or choose to not and deal with the challenges as they come.  You can choose to min/max or freestyle.  You can choose to not slot any enhancements or nothing but top end IO’s.  You can even choose to play a pet less mastermind or a tanker with loaded up pool attacks.

 

Your experience in this game is heavily influenced by YOUR choices.  It’s a sandbox of mechanics.  Move the fulcrum around, extend the length of the lever and you can lift almost anything.  Or just try to use your bare hands and pop a gonad.  Ultimately.....it’s all about choice.  You choose your way and I’ll choose mine.

[Johnny]

Using an 8-man team doesn't sound like the project is finished. Next step is to determine whether a 7-man team can do it.

[The_Warpact]

1 hour ago, Johnny said:

Using an 8-man team doesn't sound like the project is finished. Next step is to determine whether a 7-man team can do it.

Or can it be soloed...

[Apparition]

2 hours ago, Johnny said:

Using an 8-man team doesn't sound like the project is finished. Next step is to determine whether a 7-man team can do it.

 

It's already been done with five people, using no temporary powers.

[Ironblade]

2 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

Or can it be soloed...

It was.  I forget the details, but it involved a horrible bug in slotting kheldians.  Basically, you were able to put all the build slots into one power.  So, by slotting for range and damage, you could snipe Hamidon to death from the 'safe rock'.

[Doomguide2005]

On 10/15/2020 at 6:41 AM, The_Warpact said:

I'll say it again since my post got punt kicked off the field by Taco.(the important part not the rant btw)

 

If you had a team of Captain America, Deadshot, Doctor Light, Baron Zemo, Wizard, Green Arrow, etc you would need 50 of these type heroes/villains to take on a powerful entity.

 

BUT, if you have Superman, Hulk, Juggernaut, Shazam, etc on a team then obviously they wouldn't need 50 heroes/villains. 

 

 

 

Agree with post overall.  Just wanted to give a shout out to the Devs for putting together the game we all love so much and somehow manages the vast majority of the time to handle teams/players as diverse as the comic ones above represent.  As a long time GM in the tabletop realm I know exactly how near impossible this can be to pull off (especially when both are present in your current team).

[Grindingsucks]

On 10/15/2020 at 8:32 PM, Crysis said:

You totally ignored the part about requiring choices.

 

You can choose to be self sufficient in mitigating almost anything in this game.  Or choose to not and deal with the challenges as they come.  You can choose to min/max or freestyle.  You can choose to not slot any enhancements or nothing but top end IO’s.  You can even choose to play a pet less mastermind or a tanker with loaded up pool attacks.

 

Your experience in this game is heavily influenced by YOUR choices.  It’s a sandbox of mechanics.  Move the fulcrum around, extend the length of the lever and you can lift almost anything.  Or just try to use your bare hands and pop a gonad.  Ultimately.....it’s all about choice.  You choose your way and I’ll choose mine.

While I am certainly in the camp that feels like IO sets and incarnate abilities are over-powered, and I do feel like the game has other flaws that would be better addressed than left as-is, I am coming around to this way of looking at things, more and more.  The game DOES have a number of interesting tools for self-limiting power.  And, as you say, one may choose not to slot IO sets or incarnate powers, or seek accolades.  I think I just need to focus more on seeking out players with similar play styles and tweaking the game as close to personal preference with those tools, as we can get it.

 

Otherwise, I just need to learn to be more accepting of the game in the form that it's in, and not hold everyone else to the same kind of play standards that I have (which are very specific to me and probably not that common among the player base, generally).

Edited October 17, 2020 by Grindingsucks

[Crysis]

1 hour ago, Grindingsucks said:

While I am certainly in the camp that feels like IO sets and incarnate abilities are over-powered, and I do feel like the game has other flaws that would be better addressed than left as-is, I am coming around to this way of looking at things, more and more.  The game DOES have a number of interesting tools for self-limiting power.  And, as you say, one may choose not to slot IO sets or incarnate powers, or seek accolades.  I think I just need to focus more on seeking out players with similar play styles and tweaking the game as close to personal preference with those tools, as we can get it.

 

Otherwise, I just need to learn to be more accepting of the game in the form that it's in, and not hold everyone else to the same kind of play standards that I have (which are very specific to me and probably not that common among the player base, generally).

Very reasoned reply, and approach to the game.

 

I have discovered a number of SG’s in-game that are most decidedly NOT min/max in play style.  I’ve even found a couple of groups that were entirely SO-only for secondary builds, something I’ve since done for a few of my alts.  I switch off on occasion just to feel what the game was built around (SO’s).  Really want a challenge?  Don’t take Hasten and don’t slot Stamina other than a single SO.  Very difficult vs even +1’s.
 

The choices are actually quite endless in this game.

[Jakil]

All this over a little 8 man Hami.... the same players did it with 8 stalkers 🤷🏽‍♂️

[kiramon]

49 minutes ago, Jakil said:

All this over a little 8 man Hami.... the same players did it with 8 stalkers 🤷🏽‍♂️

You must've toggled off your SS for how behind you are. 

[The_Warpact]

[Xenosone]

Bet they were usuing discord. Nerf Duscord! I will only play on non teamspeak servers! Nerf teamspeak!

[Ruin Mage]

Holy sweet fucks this was a necropost.

[Black Zot]

[ScarySai]

Nice necro, but hey- while we're here~

 

Give players a decade to research up on a game they love and they'll go out of their way to break it once it comes back.

 

This isn't unique to CoH, look at Classic WoW. Hamidon wasn't made with lore pets, interfaces, or even bloody IOs in mind. What freaking chance do you think it has at this point?

Edited February 23, 2022 by ScarySai