Seeing that an 8 player team defeated Hami - What do the Devs think of the power creep ?

[plainguy]

Just wondering what the Devs think of an 8 player team defeating Hami ? 

Its clear that something is over powered  to give them this ability that is usually requires more players. 

 

It's clear that IO sets and Incarnate can be a bit overpowering

 

[Apparition]

It is fine.  They clearly used nukes from screenshots and a video posted.  Hamidon was also done with eight players before sunset.  It has been done with five players on Homecoming with no temporary powers used.

 

It is something that takes substantial amounts of time, effort, and planning.  It also requires very specific builds.  Your average Joe PUG is not going to be able to five or eight man Hamidon, even with nukes.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Apparition

[Coyotedancer]

When 8-player PUG Hamis become commonplace... then it'll look like an issue. 

Until then? It's just an example of how far a determined group of power-gamers can push a specific set of min/maxed-to-the-nines builds. 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Coyotedancer

[DougGraves]

Having godmode characters is fine if you isolate them.  I don't care if players want to use godmode to do whatever they want.  I do mind when I join a team and a godmode player solos the team content and ruins my experience.

 

At least incarnate is limited to the high levels.  But set bonuses let players use godmode at any level. 

 

It would be nice to have godmode servers and skill play servers.

[Chris24601]

All this means is that we clearly need a Praetorian Hami Raid in the ruins of the Magisterium to keep the Praetorian and Primal Hamidon from merging into a pandimensional Ultimate-Hamidon.

 

Make it so.

[Apparition]

There will always be power gamers looking for ways to break games in ways that casual players would never dream possible.  They are very rare exceptions, and far from the norm.

[Luminara]

After eight years on the original servers and a year plus here, no-one should be surprised when players find ways to do previously unimaginable things, with or without IO sets or Incarnate abilities.  The ability isn't coming from trinkets and doodads, it's coming from knowledge of game mechanics and figuring out how to leverage them to the players' advantage.

[Luminara]

11 minutes ago, Chris24601 said:

All this means is that we clearly need a Praetorian Hami Raid in the ruins of the Magisterium to keep the Praetorian and Primal Hamidon from merging into a pandimensional Ultimate-Hamidon.

 

Two enormous gelatinous blobs, side by side, jiggling incessantly, bouncing, quivering...

 

I wonder how many instances of the map would exist before the servers exploded.

[Troo]

@plainguy when your team does it, it may be time to take a look.. wait I meant when my team does it, it may be time to take a look.

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, Coyotedancer said:

When 8-player PUG Hamis become commonplace... then it'll look like an issue. 

Until then? It's just an example of how far a determined group of power-gamers can push a specific set of min/maxed-to-the-nines builds. 

 

 

This right here. Look, I am ALL FOR MAKING THE GAME HARDER! All day every day, it's just too damn easy and many AT's take a back seat due to the power creep in this game. However, if you want to use an example to help support your case, please do not use group who has min/maxed builds, have a down pat strategy and execute that strat with perfection, or use a single group of players who broke the barrier.

Personally, I don't find them very clever at all....they should have kept it to themselves because they should have KNOWN that it would create a ruckus on these forums....but they didn't soooooo...

[Player2]

2 hours ago, DougGraves said:

Having godmode characters is fine if you isolate them.  I don't care if players want to use godmode to do whatever they want.  I do mind when I join a team and a godmode player solos the team content and ruins my experience.

 

At least incarnate is limited to the high levels.  But set bonuses let players use godmode at any level. 

 

It would be nice to have godmode servers and skill play servers.

You used "godmode" five times in six sentences.

 

[golstat2003]

3 hours ago, plainguy said:

Just wondering what the Devs think of an 8 player team defeating Hami ? 

Its clear that something is over powered  to give them this ability that is usually requires more players. 

 

It's clear that IO sets and Incarnate can be a bit overpowering

 

Well as others have explained, it's just players knowing the ins and outs of the encounter and maximizing their builds.

 

Every game has this. When the average 8 joes can do it then it's an issue. Until then /shrug.

[Oubliette_Red]

51 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

This right here. Look, I am ALL FOR MAKING THE GAME HARDER! All day every day, it's just too damn easy and many AT's take a back seat due to the power creep in this game. However, if you want to use an example to help support your case, please do not use group who has min/maxed builds, have a down pat strategy and execute that strat with perfection, or use a single group of players who broke the barrier.

Personally, I don't find them very clever at all....they should have kept it to themselves because they should have KNOWN that it would create a ruckus on these forums....but they didn't soooooo...

I think that for the average player the game is difficult enough.

 

What I'd like to see is something along the lines of the Flashback options added to other aspects of the game so that players/teams can increase their own difficulty without it impacting everyone else.

 

[Solarverse]

 

33 minutes ago, Oubliette_Red said:

I think that for the average player the game is difficult enough.

 

What I'd like to see is something along the lines of the Flashback options added to other aspects of the game so that players/teams can increase their own difficulty without it impacting everyone else.

 

 

I could get on board with that.

[Greycat]

Yeah, as has been mentioned, people have been soloing/small-team-ing things for a long time, starting with (as I recall) Lusca vs an Illusion controller - on SOs. Took a while, but it was soloed.

 

While there has definitely been power creep, especially at the top end (perma-everything, capped-everything, etc,) I wouldn't call the 8 person Hami a sign of the end times or anything. If it became a nightly thing PUGS could do? That'd be way too far.

[Clave Dark 5]

9 hours ago, plainguy said:

It's clear that IO sets and Incarnate can be a bit overpowering

Curious to know what you'd suggest then, rolling them back?  Nerfing them?  How much?  It's been said and I'm sure you've heard it yourself, but you don't have to use either system if you don't want to.  Heck, I've been thinking of rolling an "all SO" toon just so I don't have to worry and sweat over a build.

[DSorrow]

We've seen all sorts of crazy accomplishments in past pinnacle activities: solo GMs, solo STF, solo LRSF, solo Mo*TFs (even at +4x8), etc. I think it's pretty arbitrary to decide that 8-man Hami is where we've crossed a border when the reality is that the only point in the game's history where we had "sensible" limits to character power was the gap between ED and IOs. Besides that period, it's always just been a matter of time until someone comes up with a build and/or strategy to accomplish something previously unthinkable.

 

Just to echo other people, so long as this kind of crazy stuff is only doable to the most dedicated and skilled power gamers, I don't think there's an issue. Once the average player starts soloing STFs it might be a time to look at bigger balance changes.

[Vulpoid]

I am not sure why how other people play should be of any concern to you.

[blue4333]

7 minutes ago, Vulpoid said:

I am not sure why how other people play should be of any concern to you.

Exactly. Just run your own team and broadcast: Team forming and LF for non incarnates or lowbies. 

Instead of taking power away from people who do feel a sense of pride from attaining that, why can’t we lift the non performers to that level?

[The_Warpact]

I base most of my observations from comic books.

Example, it would take 50 heroes/villains like Captain America, Daredevil, Starfire, Cyborg, Wizard, Doctor Light, etc to take on Hami. 

 

But, if you have a team made up of Superman, Hulk, Juggernaut, Martian Manhunter, etc then yeah Hami is going to get whipped.

 

Same thing for the game the average alt overloaded player who doesn't spend 500 mil to 1 bil inf on a tricked out proc laden min/max build isn't going to be on that team. Especially if they door sit on farms, play casual, only on weekends, etc. Because, they are not like the upper echelon players on this forum who can run numbers, prattle off any knowledge, and just generally know things the average player has no idea about.

 

When it becomes commonplace that anyone can do it, then balance will be needed. 

So far the cautious balanced nature that the HC team direction seems to be taking is fine.

 

 

 

[Darmian]

Eh, because it doesn't matter? They were obviously maxed/stratted out to the gills+nukes and so on.  And let them have their glory.

 

Such things as that don't mean anything to me because I, like many others, don't play like that, nor does it interest me. I don't play on 4/8 because...well, what does that prove? Something to others, nothing to me. Everyone has their own comfort zone, and by that I don't mean "cotton wool covered space where nothing bad happens to you". There are no non performers, there are no upper echelon players. There are just players.

 

Give me a well written AE that I have to get through at -1/1 because I really want to see this story over a Kill Most/All ITF Speed Run 4/8...because that's how I play 🙂 

 

That said, echoing above, if a PUG of 8 could do that on any random day, now THAT is an issue.

[roleki]

Yeah, well, call me when someone solos SBB.

[Ruin Mage]

On the power creep / game difficulty.
Welcome to City of Heroes and any long-lasting MMO ever. The power creep was intentionally part of the design of the original game - look at later sets and how they performed before shut down. Now look at what soars above and beyond on HC as well. The game is easy as it is because of things the original devs introduced. IOs and Incarnates both bolstered power to a whole new level. That's perfectly fine, because this is a game set in a comic book super-power universe.

I mean, taking IOs and Incarnates to task and trying to take a bat to them is going to fundamentally be the worst challenge to undertake.

It would backfire as well, or so I'd speculate as a couch potato who doesn't know what the heck I'm talking about.

On 8-manning stuff / doing stuff with way less people:
iTrials have been 8-manned, duoed, and soloed. You know what you need to achieve this? Meta builds and determination. Not everyone cares about meta builds like TW/Bio scrappers or fire/fire blasters or fire/x corrs (usually cold, storm, or dark) - some people just want to enjoy the game. Taking balance to task because people have figured out how to min-max the game's numbers is not a sound for alarm. There's some real stand out combinations that just snap the game's balance over its knees, but the entire community isn't out to figure this sort of stuff. 

When it becomes common place that everyone is duoing itrials or doing very wacky stuff? Sure, maybe. The problem is that people won't be doing that. Some builds can't solo +4/x8. Some builds can't solo AVs (not counting lore pets) - but plenty of builds / ATs can. On and on it could go.

[ShardWarrior]

12 hours ago, DougGraves said:

Having godmode characters is fine if you isolate them.  I don't care if players want to use godmode to do whatever they want.  I do mind when I join a team and a godmode player solos the team content and ruins my experience.

 

At least incarnate is limited to the high levels.  But set bonuses let players use godmode at any level. 

 

It would be nice to have godmode servers and skill play servers.

Alternatively, you can find others who have a similar mindset and team up together. 

[Darmian]

13 minutes ago, roleki said:

Yeah, well, call me when someone solos SBB.

A job for a TRUE Mastermind!