Focused Feedback: Energy Melee Revamp

[Brutal Justice]

1 minute ago, siolfir said:

I suggested this as well, but thought that Tankers would then just complain because they can't use Barrage without messing up the fast ET and they're stuck with Barrage. But they could just use Bone Smasher instead and do more damage, much like the suggested "just use Energy Punch" pages ago for skipping Bone Smasher.

 

I know that since I don't take Barrage I would like this solution, though - I'd still have to use Total Focus before Energy Transfer but it wouldn't mess up my using Bone Smasher as filler.

I think most end game builds probably stop using barrage even though they are forced to take it.  Most of those T1 powers end up removed from power trays later in the game

[Brutal Justice]

5 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

I mean for other non-tanks, if it's -only- in barrage you'd have to take barrage as the other sets. I edited my other post but not quick enough it seems lol

 

If they moved it to both EP/BA i could see that being ok because tanks who -have- to take barrage aren't missing out and people who choose EP instead aren't missing out.

Making them take barrage for the stun is not much different from how they currently have to take stun for the stun.  It’s actually better because barrage does more damage than current stun.  

[Super Atom]

Just now, Brutal Justice said:

Making them take barrage for the stun is not much different from how they currently have to take stun for the stun.  It’s actually better because barrage does more damage than current stun.  

I'm agreeing with you in part, I just think if you do it to barrage you also need to do it to Energy Punch. the way most people take these powers it's either EP or BA not both. Tanks are forced into it but also usually avoid EP. With how EF works, you can't do it twice in a row (unless theres a crit on scrappers) so it wouldn't be an issue to overlap.

[ScarySai]

42 minutes ago, Tactical said:

Either Bone Smasher having a chance to generate EF, or removing its consumption of EF and adding Build Up as a source of EF, both would work for my tastes personally.

I have reason to believe the build up idea won't be considered, which is why I'm focusing on focused BS itself.

 

BS generating EF in one way or another would be good. 

 

And again, brutes/tanks need more ways to generate focus, even if scrappers/stalkers get nothing else.

 

Also, it's really not a "combo" system, so much as a build/spender system. There's a difference - just a minor annoyance is all.

Edited October 28, 2020 by ScarySai

[siolfir]

1 minute ago, Brutal Justice said:

Making them take barrage for the stun is not much different from how they currently have to take stun for the stun.  It’s actually better because barrage does more damage than current stun.  

It's also a shorter animation for more damage at a lower recharge than the current Stun, and Barrage has the lowest base percent chance to stun in the set so would receive the most "boost" from it.

 

And people who don't care about the -special and -regen effect can skip it, unless they are Tankers - then they remove it from the tray when they can go without it. @Super Atom's suggestion to add it to both is okay but I'd rather remove the possibility of it interfering with my single target chain between Total Focus and Energy Transfer by only having it in a little-used power, and until you get to some substantial recharge you're probably going to have both Energy Punch and Bone Smasher in your rotation. I also like the idea of having Build Up add Energy Focus but ONLY if it doesn't change any other numbers in the power... given how the other mechanic sets have reduced +damage, though, it likely will - which makes the suggestion undesirable.

 

For what it's worth, I've wasted EF charges a handful of times using Bone Smasher once I get into crowds in just a few missions. It's not extremely hard to avoid, but it's still an active avoidance.

[Brutal Justice]

3 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

I'm agreeing with you in part, I just think if you do it to barrage you also need to do it to Energy Punch. the way most people take these powers it's either EP or BA not both. Tanks are forced into it but also usually avoid EP. With how EF works, you can't do it twice in a row (unless theres a crit on scrappers) so it wouldn't be an issue to overlap.

I just don’t see why energy punch would need it also.  The other archetypes have the choice.  Better dpa or guaranteed stun.  From level 1.  It just creates a build choice which I think is a good dilemma to have.  

 

Tanks have  to decide if they want to save a power pick and roll with barrage instead of getting better dpa with energy punch.  It feels like an equal dilemma to me.  

[siolfir]

6 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Also, it's really not a "combo" system, so much as a build/spender system. There's a difference - just a minor annoyance is all.

As it is now, with only one builder, it's still a combo system hiding as a charge/discharge system. You have to combo Total Focus and something else to use it.

[Super Atom]

1 minute ago, Brutal Justice said:

I just don’t see why energy punch would need it also.  The other archetypes have the choice.  Better dpa or guaranteed stun.  From level 1.  It just creates a build choice which I think is a good dilemma to have.  

 

Tanks have  to decide if they want to save a power pick and roll with barrage instead of getting better dpa with energy punch.  It feels like an equal dilemma to me.  

Mainly for balance reasons. The combo having 3 choices is the primary goal of the balance. Bone smasher is usually taken, It's in large an ability rarely skipped. If you force an extra layer on top of this already existing balance, you're now throwing that out of whack.

[Super Atom]

3 minutes ago, siolfir said:

As it is now, with only one builder, it's still a combo system hiding as a charge/discharge system. You have to combo Total Focus and something else to use it.

Honestly it's both since it fits both lol TF is a builder, 3 powers are the spender. I think calling it a combo system is misleading though, since it doesn't A>B>C>D it's A>B. Since DB/STJ/Staff are a hard combo system while Energy Focus is a lot less taxing than that. IMO either work tho

[Brutal Justice]

1 minute ago, Super Atom said:

Mainly for balance reasons. The combo having 3 choices is the primary goal of the balance. Bone smasher is usually taken, It's in large an ability rarely skipped. If you force an extra layer on top of this already existing balance, you're now throwing that out of whack.

Bone smasher is usually taken but I see everybody complaining they skip using it to avoid using their EF.  Everybody has to take either barrage or energy punch.  I think the mechanic should be added barrage to provide the build choice and give a little to tanks stuck with barrage.  Especially after energy punch was buffed.  

 

There is zero reason to give it to both barrage and energy punch.  Giving it to one does not require giving it to the other as well.  There would still be three choices of spenders.

 

Forcing an “extra” layer is not really forcing since all but tanks have the choice.  Also, if it frees people up to use bone smasher when they want, it feels better.  Nothing is more useless than a power in your tray you avoid using.     It’s especially egregious when that power is an otherwise good power.  

[Taboo]

Thanks for the changes on Whirling pom poms & Total pom poms. Much appreciated.

 

A couple quick questions.

Why the negative changes to Energy Punch? Is 16% more damage really more if it available 20% less often and it will also cost more?!!

On 10/24/2020 at 5:33 AM, Jimmy said:

 Energy Punch

• Recharge increased from 4s to 5s
• End cost increased from 5.2 to 6.032
• Damage increased from scale 1 to scale 1.16

 

I haven't tried the Energy Focus but WHAT THE FRECKLES!!?!! Aren't their enough of those type sets out there?

 

I thought there were people asking for the old set. What was wrong with just turning this sucker back to the way it was? If the numbers weren't good enough just juice em up. Why does shit have to be all complicated, aren't we hear to have fun?

 

Also what is up with making all the sets the same? Just because that set has something that doesn't mean all the sets need to have it. There is some shit that some folks actively avoid.

 

[Vanden]

Just now, Taboo said:

Why the negative changes to Energy Punch? Is 16% more damage really more if it available 20% less often and it will also cost more?!!

That's how the standard damage formula works, compadre.

[Super Atom]

6 minutes ago, Brutal Justice said:

Bone smasher is usually taken but I see everybody complaining they skip using it to avoid using their EF.  Everybody has to take either barrage or energy punch.  I think the mechanic should be added barrage to provide the build choice and give a little to tanks stuck with barrage.  Especially after energy punch was buffed.  

 

There is zero reason to give it to both barrage and energy punch.  Giving it to one does not require giving it to the other as well.  There would still be three choices of spenders.

 

Forcing an “extra” layer is not really forcing since all but tanks have the choice.  Also, if it frees people up to use bone smasher when they want, it feels better.  Nothing is more useless than a power in your tray you avoid using.     It’s especially egregious when that power is an otherwise good power.  

Well again, if you tie it into barrage you've now made people take it if they want that mechanic and if they don't, you've now taken away a prong of the mechanic by an easily skipped power. So with the idea that an easy-skip power has taken away part of the mechanic, you'll need to re-eval how strong PC and ET are. If you put it in both, you maintain the mechanic being there 100% of the time and keep the balance.

 

I don't really get the BS complaint in the first place, ET recharges faster than TF so it'll always surely be up. Using EF on BS is a player error and not a mechanical failure. You can't accidentally build EF atm so I don't see how you could accidentally spend it

 

@Taboo test it before judging it so harshly lol , It's possible you still won't like it but more than 1 mind got changed already 😛

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Super Atom

[BrandX]

I love Barrage, all for seeing it get some love.

 

Don't see the issue with TF being needed to be used first to get the AOE for PC.  Target the toughest target first with TF, hit the two AOEs for everything else, instead of hitting the AOEs and finishing them off with the ST.

 

EM's focus is and should stay ST.

 

 

[Brutal Justice]

3 minutes ago, Taboo said:

I thought there were people asking for the old set. What was wrong with just turning this sucker back to the way it was? If the numbers weren't good enough just juice em up. Why does shit have to be all complicated, aren't we hear to have fun?

 

Also what is up with making all the sets the same? Just because that set has something that doesn't mean all the sets need to have it. There is some shit that some folks actively avoid.

I wanted no mechanics.  Old energy transfer.  Barrage turned into Hack numbers.  Full crits with double self damage on energy transfer crit.  Didn’t get even one of those things...

[Tsuko]

On 10/24/2020 at 2:33 PM, Jimmy said:

Build 1 - October 24th, 2020

  Reveal hidden contents

 Powerset Revamp: Energy Melee

Energy Melee has received a series of changes aimed at improving the performance of the set. Total Focus now acts as an opener for three different Energy Focus combos, including a Total Focus > Energy Transfer combo which provides fast, potent single target damage. Stun has been reworked into Power Crash, a cone attack, in order to provide a small amount of additional AoE capability to the set.

 

Power Changes

•  Energy Punch
  • Recharge increased from 4s to 5s
  • End cost increased from 5.2 to 6.032
  • Damage increased from scale 1 to scale 1.16
•  Bone Smasher
  • Cast time reduced from 1.5s to 1.27s
  • If used with Energy Focus: 100% chance for stun and applies a weakening (-special and -regen) effect to the target
•  Power Crash (Replaces Stun)
  • Power Crash is now a minor cone that can hit up to 5 targets (10 for Tankers)
  • No longer takes melee damage sets, now takes PBAoE damage sets (any existing enhancements will remain slotted until the character respecs)
  • If used with Energy Focus: Target cap increased to 10 targets (16 for Tankers)
  • If you previously had Stun in your build, you'll now have Power Crash
  • Stalkers only:
    • This power has a 18s recharge (instead of a 9s recharge for other ATs), with proportional damage and endurance cost increases per the standard damage formulas
    • As Stalkers do not have Whirling Hands, they rely entirely on Power Crash for AoE damage
•  Whirling Hands
  •  Damage increased from scale 1 to scale 1.1819 (it was slightly below what the damage formula dictated)
•  Total Focus 
  • Cast time reduced from 3.3 seconds to 2.53 seconds
  • Total Focus has a 100% chance to grant Energy Focus (even if power misses)
  • (Stalker / Scrapper only) This power only crits for 28% additional damage, but when it crits, it will also generate a backup Energy Store that will re-activate Energy Focus after the current Energy Focus is used or expires (essentially it provides two stacks of Energy Focus)
  •  Energy Focus
    • Energy Focus is consumed when casting certain Energy Melee powers in order to provide bonus effects (Energy Focus is not consumed if the power misses)
    • Energy Focus expires after 15 seconds
•  Energy Transfer
  • Energy Transfer self damage is now 10% of base max HP for all ATs, and no longer costs any endurance
  • Damage is now 100% energy
  • (Stalker / Scrapper only) When this power crits it will now not only avoid the self-damage, but actually heals the caster for 10% of base Max HP.
  • Recharge lowered from 20s to 10s
  • If used with Energy Focus: Cast time reduced from 2.67s to 1.0s

Stalker Power Order Changes

  Reveal hidden contents

1.  Barrage
2.  Energy Punch
3.  Bone Smasher
4.  Assassin's Strike
5.  Build Up
6.  Placate
7.  Power Crash (replaces Stun)
8.  Total Focus (moved from T9)
9.  Energy Transfer (moved from T8)

 

Tanker Power Order Changes

  Reveal hidden contents

1.  Barrage
2.  Energy Punch
3.  Bone Smasher
4. Taunt
5.  Whirling Hands
6.  Total Focus (moved from T9)
7.  Build Up
8.  Power Crash (replaces Stun, moved from T6)
9.  Energy Transfer (moved from T8)

 

 

 

dont know if it s already point to you but there are graphic issues with TF with mystic flight.

 

(i ll private the vid and there are no tags or title on the vid)

 

EDIT : the tankers and brute EM need something compared to the double FC of stalkers and Scrappers

Edited October 28, 2020 by Tsuko

[Taboo]

7 minutes ago, Vanden said:

That's how the standard damage formula works, compadre.

Are you sure?

[siolfir]

Just now, Taboo said:

Are you sure?

It's posted.

 

The new Energy Punch matches the formula.

[Taboo]

3 minutes ago, Brutal Justice said:

I wanted no mechanics.  Old energy transfer.  Barrage turned into Hack numbers.  Full crits with double self damage on energy transfer crit.  Didn’t get even one of those things...

That is just messed up.

 

How do we vote thanks for trying but NO! Do we get a vote? I WANNA VOTE

[Bopper]

Just now, siolfir said:

It's posted.

 

The new Energy Punch matches the formula.

And to add to that, every EM attack other than Energy Transfer now follows the design formula exactly (in case anyone was curious).

[Brutal Justice]

 

6 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

Well again, if you tie it into barrage you've now made people take it if they want that mechanic and if they don't, you've now taken away a prong of the mechanic by an easily skipped power. So with the idea that an easy-skip power has taken away part of the mechanic, you'll need to re-eval how strong PC and ET are.

Yes that is exactly what I want to do.  People currently have to make the choice with a garbage power.  There is no reason this would require a re-eval  of PC and ET.  

Edited October 28, 2020 by Brutal Justice
Auto correct got me.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Taboo said:

That is just messed up.

 

How do we vote thanks for trying but NO! Do we get a vote? I WANNA VOTE

It's not a democracy.

[Super Atom]

2 minutes ago, Taboo said:

That is just messed up.

 

How do we vote thanks for trying but NO! Do we get a vote? I WANNA VOTE

 

Powerhouse addressed this already, he tried his best without the use of mechanics first.

[Captain Powerhouse]

49 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

I think the primary issue is forcing people to take barrage. I think this is actually why they avoided doing anything to the T1/T2 individually.

 

That was not the reason. The reason it went into Bone Smasher was to keep some parity with Energy Assault, something that is not necessary, just a sometimes "nice when things match."

 

 

[Super Atom]

2 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

That was not the reason. The reason it went into Bone Smasher was to keep some parity with Energy Assault, something that is not necessary, just a sometimes "nice when things match."

 

 

So it -could- be moved into the other two powers without much of a balancing issue? That might be worth exploring then

 

Edit: To people thinking he corrected me with malice, you're insane and pretty dumb. Clarifying a development position is not insulting in the least. Stop.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Super Atom