Focused Feedback: Teleportation Pool Revamp

[pwntoon]

This has been mentioned a couple times but I'd like to throw my voice in for fixing the teleport magnitude mechanics as it relates to bosses more then +2 levels over the player's level. There's a long running thread in Feedback and Suggestions talking about how Wormhole is affected by this, and now with the introduction of Fold Space, this power is also affected by it.

 

Fold Space and Wormhole are arguably not viable powers if they can't be used to teleport bosses more than 2 over your level. Particularly at lower levels this is very painful, because if the team lead is one level higher than you, teams running at +2 will break foe teleport powers. But even at end game content, plenty of teams run at +4, and it's nearly impossible to use Fold Space or Wormhole on normal groups. 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by pwntoon

[ABlueThingy]

59 minutes ago, Replacement said:

I like your gumption, but... how?  What would that keybind look like?  Pretty sure it would be something like /bind 1 "powexeclocation target combat teleport$$powexecname charged brawl" but, unless that works simply because they're different commands, I think they'll trip over each other and you'll just activate the attack.

 

If you can make this work, definitely let us know.

Try: /macro 1 "powexeclocation target combat teleport$$powexecauto brawl"

 

If I could somehow get /pow_exec_abort to execute after... maybe bind it to the movement keys?

 

...if this proliferates out to the PVPers it's gonna look like dragon ball Z in ther-- wait

 

...

 

 

...

 

 

Ok, try making a bind file cal-- WAIT BACK UP YOUR BINDS FIRST OK so first we do

 

/bind_save_file "C:\coh binds\bdz.txt" 

 

which should back up your existing stuff. Use whatever file path you want of course.  Then make a macro

 

/macro ZBD bind_load_file "C:\coh binds\bdz.txt" 

 

Now go into there and make a new bind file called dbz.txt and paste this info

W "powexec_location 0:max "Combat Teleport""
A "powexec_location 270:max "Combat Teleport""
S "powexec_location 180:max "Combat Teleport""
D "powexec_location 90:max "Combat Teleport""
Q "powexec_location 315:max "Combat Teleport""
E "powexec_location 45:max "Combat Teleport""
space "powexec_location up:max Combat Teleport"

 

Now we do another macro like before

 

/macro dbz bind_load_file "C:\coh binds\dbz.txt" 

Now you can switch between the two bindfiles/control schemes by using the macro.

 

Now pick up Conserve Power, 40 Blue insp, and max out your global recharge.

 

[Replacement]

@ABlueThingy Effing Sound.

 

If you put it on attacks though, exec_auto may be enough -- they have cooldowns, so you'll be moving on to a new attack to Auto anyway!  instead, bind aborts to your move keys.

 

Sidenote: while I won't be binding teleport MAX (lol) to my WSAD, I may very well do something similar with Shift+WASD.

[ABlueThingy]

23 minutes ago, Replacement said:

@ABlueThingy Effing Sound.

 

If you put it on attacks though, exec_auto may be enough -- they have cooldowns, so you'll be moving on to a new attack to Auto anyway!  instead, bind aborts to your move keys.

 

Sidenote: while I won't be binding teleport MAX (lol) to my WSAD, I may very well do something similar with Shift+WASD.

Frankly after playing with this for a bit I think the Devs should absolutely extend this power out so you can get even more use out of it.  The cost will prevent people from using it to travel cross zone I imagine.  But being able to use a bind set up like this makes me want to be able to zip-zap up and down locations and across gaps freely. 

 

Also I should note that with enough practice...

powexec_location camera:max "Combat Teleport"

should let you make pin-point teleports exactly where you're looking.  So you could bind that to W instead or something.

[Sif]

31 minutes ago, ABlueThingy said:

W "powexec_location 0:max "Combat Teleport""

A "powexec_location 270:max "Combat Teleport""

S "powexec_location 180:max "Combat Teleport""

D "powexec_location 90:max "Combat Teleport""

Q "powexec_location 315:max "Combat Teleport""

E "powexec_location 45:max "Combat Teleport""

space "powexec_location up:max Combat Teleport"

I had to try this... the results are quite interesting. It's a bit awkward, but the brief period of time where the power begins recharging before realizing it has more charges makes vertical travel painful.

 

3 minutes ago, ABlueThingy said:

Also I should note that with enough practice...

powexec_location camera:max "Combat Teleport"

should let you make pin-point teleports exactly where you're looking.  So you could bind that to W instead or something.

Now this works well with a button on my mouse, to just ping around. I don't think I'd replace using shift clicking with it, though, as it's not really precise enough for my tastes (although maybe paired with a TP-to-target bind it'd work better)

[naraganeun]

2 hours ago, pwntoon said:

This has been mentioned a couple times but I'd like to throw my voice in for fixing the teleport magnitude mechanics as it relates to bosses more then +2 levels over the player's level. There's a long running thread in Feedback and Suggestions talking about how Wormhole is affected by this, and now with the introduction of Fold Space, this power is also affected by it.

 

Fold Space and Wormhole are arguably not viable powers if they can't be used to teleport bosses more than 2 over your level. Particularly at lower levels this is very painful, because if the team lead is one level higher than you, teams running at +2 will break foe teleport powers. But even at end game content, plenty of teams run at +4, and it's nearly impossible to use Fold Space or Wormhole on normal groups. 

 

 

I think this suggestion got buried by a big pile of other suggestions. Hopefully with more people trying out TP powers we will get some updates on the mag values!

[Bartacus]

My only thought is that Combat Teleport, to me, oversteps the uniqueness of the same power from Martial combat. I'm happy to see that power proliferated, but it was/is one of the most unique powers in the game. Should this really be offered to everyone via power pool?

[ABlueThingy]

5 minutes ago, naraganeun said:

I think this suggestion got buried by a big pile of other suggestions. Hopefully with more people trying out TP powers we will get some updates on the mag values!

Out of the box I think Wormhole should be able to nail higher level enemy types just because it's a primary power after all

 

For the TP pool... I'd like to float the idea that the more you invest in the pool the more effective the powers in it get. Like the Fighting pool. 

 

If it would be unbalanced for Combat Teleport to have more then 3 charges or instant recharge as a base... ok.  But maybe every time you pick up another power it adds another charge? Being able to jump 3 times before it cools down at a base and 7 times if you picked up the whole teleport pool.

 

Or having Teleport Target's interrupt time go down as you pick up more powers.  Or it's teleport magnitude go up. 

 

I'd like to be able to specialize as a teleporter and feel like my character is better at teleporting than someone who just dipped to pick up one or two powers.  If dumping five powers into TP gets me the ability to jaunt 7 times and yank foes to me mid-combat with ease... that's as big a change to play-style as Hover Blasting.  If not more. And worth five whole powers.

 

(I also think think this is how all the big four travel pools should be made different from the origin pools, broadly.  But that's a topic for another day.)

[dtj714]

Sorry, but just thought of this.  Why are you taking out LRTP, and not the real useless/unused power - Team Teleport?  I mean seriously, you think reducing the endurance cost is going to make a difference?

 

Combine the target ports, put in combat port, drop team port, leave LR as the T4 (and improve it with lots more destinations, one way or another), and put in...whatever, as the T5.

 

And while you’re at it, get rid of Group Fly and find a new T5 for that pool, cuz, ya know, that’s a useless travel power too...

[ABlueThingy]

9 minutes ago, dtj714 said:

Sorry, but just thought of this.  Why are you taking out LRTP, and not the real useless/unused power - Team Teleport?  I mean seriously, you think reducing the endurance cost is going to make a difference?

 

Combine the target ports, put in combat port, drop team port, leave LR as the T4 (and improve it with lots more destinations, one way or another), and put in...whatever, as the T5.

 

And while you’re at it, get rid of Group Fly and find a new T5 for that pool, cuz, ya know, that’s a useless travel power too...

Maybe just have TP group and Group Fly give you two powers.  One works on everything and one works on pets/self only.  I'd use them both a lot more on masterminds that way.

[dtj714]

5 minutes ago, ABlueThingy said:

Maybe just have TP group and Group Fly give you two powers.  One works on everything and one works on pets/self only.  I'd use them both a lot more on masterminds that way.

Wait, is that what these powers are for?  MM pets?  That’s just silly, the basic powers should effect MM pets...

[ABlueThingy]

34 minutes ago, dtj714 said:

Wait, is that what these powers are for?  MM pets?  That’s just silly, the basic powers should effect MM pets...

They do, I'm just saying that if you use it to TP/Fly with your pets then you risk sucking your teamates along.  A lot of teams don't like the sudden flight or being bounced around so you have to stop using it if you team.

 

I'd like the ability to use it for JUST my pets somehow.

 

I bet some Traps folks would like that too

[Arnabas]

What are the requirements for the long range teleport accolade? I just bought that for the first time on one of my characters and I like having it. I don't really want to lose it.

[Menelruin]

What if Team Teleport had two function:

 

1:  Recall an ally to your position, even across zones.

 

2:  Send YOU to an ally's position, even across zones.

 

Would that be a good balance?

 

As for Combat Teleport, what if it lets you target an enemy as your destination, and afterwards the hover effect stays on for however many seconds, and attacking the initially targeted enemy doesn't break it? 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Menelruin

[ScarySai]

On 10/25/2020 at 6:35 PM, DougReyn said:

Teleport is still cumbersome, slow and not fun. Moving around zones quickly made me want to get back to jumping/flying. For me it's still not a viable travel power.

100% agreed.

 

I love the Powexec_loc changes, I love combat teleport's functionality (iffy on the buff, but regardless), I like the idea behind the untouchable status on teleport, but teleport itself still feels sluggish and generally terrible. The only reason I have it on the shade is because I'm forced to, really. While having untouchable for the opener is cool in a way, I'd trade it in an instant for a more responsive travel power.

 

Quote

As for Combat Teleport, what if it lets you target an enemy as your destination, and afterwards the hover effect stays on for however many seconds, and attacking the initially targeted enemy doesn't break it? 

As someone who hates the hover in teleport, please no.

Edited October 27, 2020 by ScarySai

[drbuzzard]

Didn't notice the changes to teleport, but I suppose I didn't really try. Still has the 'can't reall move' version of hover which is annoying. 

 

Combat teleport is very cool, but I don't get enough use out of it yet. Only bug I noticed was where it wouldn't teleport up some stairs to a target. It left me at the base of the stairs. 

[SableShrike]

Giving Human Shades yet another reason to play in melee, would this be a good time now to argue that Kheldians need minor mez protection in Human?

 

We already get the teaming buff, but solo a baseline MAG2 in our Auto armor (similar to Wolf Spider gets) would be a big help.

 

As is, minion mez cuts Kheldians up if not running Light Form or Clarion.

 

I’m fine with leaving them weak to a true Hold or Sleep power, but getting Orbiting Death detoggled by a MAG1 Stun sucks.

 

You could tweak it so Shades also get Slow resistance and Peace get Defense Debuff or Endurance Drain resistance.

 

As is, I do not see Shadow Slip being too useful on a solo Shade.

Edited October 27, 2020 by SableShrike

[Arcadio]

3 hours ago, Bartacus said:

My only thought is that Combat Teleport, to me, oversteps the uniqueness of the same power from Martial combat. I'm happy to see that power proliferated, but it was/is one of the most unique powers in the game. Should this really be offered to everyone via power pool?

It's essentially the same thing as jaunt on speed of sound, which have been in the game for a while.

[InvaderStych]

1 hour ago, Menelruin said:

As for Combat Teleport, what if it lets you target an enemy as your destination, and afterwards the hover effect stays on for however many seconds, and attacking the initially targeted enemy doesn't break it? 

It's easy enough to make it targeted via a /macro.  I actually like the option of having it location based when I want to move without targeting.  Having setup mouse buttons for both worked quite nicely.  The <shift>+WASD ideas put together by @ABlueThingy and @Replacement up-thread a ways are very interesting too.  Changing the power to where it requires an active target limits it's macro-ability.

 

Also, please no on extending the hover.  Some of us don't necessarily fly. 😄

Edited October 27, 2020 by InvaderStych

[aethereal]

I just started playing with combat teleport.  My initial feedback is:  I'd like it if there was a different animation option that was a little more dynamic.  Both burst of speed and jaunt have way more action-looking poses than the sort of lean back and flex teleport animation (edit:  sorry, it's not the lean-back-and-flex, it's the lean-forward-palms-down one.  Whichever.  Same critique), and for a rapid in-combat teleport, it looks a little stiff and, well, not like a good combat pose.

 

Like, that's not how Nightcrawler looks when he bamfs.

Edited October 27, 2020 by aethereal
Misremembered which stiff, undynamic animation it used.

[arthurh35353]

I'm going to chime in a little bit here.

 

1. Teleport Friend/Foe combined into Teleport Other is a net bonus, IMO.
2. Combat Teleport: I'm not against this power, but I think the To-Hit is anti-thematic and more to be different for differences' sake than for a good reason. People aren't going to click spam Combat Teleport before attacking, though they might teleport a few times if they start whiffing horribly against high level CoT and Nemesis. But the To-Hit becomes relatively useless at 50+.
3. The removal of Long Range Teleport seems like something not really broken being moved to 'fix' it for everyone that didn't have the power.
4. Fold Space: I think this power steps too close on Wormhole (and is in essence a clone of wormhole that you can give to everyone) that seems more like a power farming tool than a situational combat power. I think it should in fact get axed. It seems like something that would get abused post haste and could be used to drop higher level mobs on people, ie. griefing. I have never seen a power added to the game that was so potentially broken towards griefing and farming in my life. I'm pretty sure mines and traps characters are salivating at the fact they will never miss their groups in the future.
5. Group Teleport: Basically doesn't get fixed and is still relatively useless unless you train your team around it. The idea of making it like the Incarnate incandescence teleport has some merits. Perhaps change it so it takes your pets (even non-movement ones) with you. The reason people don't use it as a reverse Fold Space is because you can't prep and blow things up without threat.

From what I can see, fold space is supposed to be the combat buff power, but because it's not safe for a large majority (squishies!) it basically only buffs those that can already survive 16 mobs at a time. Yay for making them farm better. 

 

I've been wishing for a teleport combat power like Trap Door the Incarnate wannabe with teleport powers that could clone himself. A pet that you summon with your semi-default powers and look. Perhaps a neat ability that if you die while your pet is alive, you appear and replace the pet at 1/2 health. Combat Clone.

[Mystic Fortune]

2 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

I'm going to chime in a little bit here.

 

 

1. Combat Teleport: I'm not against this power, but I think the To-Hit is anti-thematic and more to be different for differences' sake than for a good reason. People aren't going to click spam Combat Teleport before attacking, though they might teleport a few times if they start whiffing horribly against high level CoT and Nemesis. But the To-Hit becomes relatively useless at 50+.

 

 

I think the To-hit is very much on theme. Imagine, if you will - You teleport in front of a mob catching him off guard. You have gained the element of surprise which translates to a temporary to-hit buff within in-game mechanics. There could be an argument made that constantly teleporting around could have a chance to cause confuse on mobs... but we certainly can't make Combat Teleport too good...

[aethereal]

Okay, second piece of feedback:

 

Combat Teleport + Ninja Run is a hell of a movement power.  Maybe a better movement power than Speed of Sound?

 

In my opinion, the downside of Ninja Run as a movement power isn't that it's too slow in straight-line running, it's that its jump height/distance isn't quite enough to handle some of the bigger walls.  For example, getting up to the "lip" around Steel Canyon can be challenging for Ninja Run, and getting into the central citadel area of Cap Au Diable necessarily involves running around to one of the ramps (while fly and teleport obviously don't have these problems, and Super Jump at least eventually gets to the point of clearing them).  This is obviously the problem with Super Speed, and Speed of Sound sort of patches SS with Jaunt mainly for vertical ability, right?

 

But Ninja Run + Teleport gives you the ability to jump a fair amount, and then at the height of your jump combat teleport for another 100 feet of either horizontal or vertical distance, and the come out of the teleport with Ninja Run's pretty darn good jump control to stick the landing (or teleport again).  I've been finding that significantly more user friendly than Speed of Sound + Jaunt, and if you do screw it up, Combat Teleport will be up again faster than Jaunt will to retry it.  Plus for more minor obstacles, you can jump rather than try to teleport around it.

 

I don't know if we're even bothering to balance around travel powers anymore.  But if we care, my initial impression is that Combat Teleport makes it at least as easy to skip a travel power in conjunction with Ninja Run as does Sentinel/Scrapper Shinobi + Ninja Run.

[DreadShinobi]

15 minutes ago, aethereal said:

Okay, second piece of feedback:

 

Combat Teleport + Ninja Run is a hell of a movement power.  Maybe a better movement power than Speed of Sound?

 

In my opinion, the downside of Ninja Run as a movement power isn't that it's too slow in straight-line running, it's that its jump height/distance isn't quite enough to handle some of the bigger walls.  For example, getting up to the "lip" around Steel Canyon can be challenging for Ninja Run, and getting into the central citadel area of Cap Au Diable necessarily involves running around to one of the ramps (while fly and teleport obviously don't have these problems, and Super Jump at least eventually gets to the point of clearing them).  This is obviously the problem with Super Speed, and Speed of Sound sort of patches SS with Jaunt mainly for vertical ability, right?

 

But Ninja Run + Teleport gives you the ability to jump a fair amount, and then at the height of your jump combat teleport for another 100 feet of either horizontal or vertical distance, and the come out of the teleport with Ninja Run's pretty darn good jump control to stick the landing (or teleport again).  I've been finding that significantly more user friendly than Speed of Sound + Jaunt, and if you do screw it up, Combat Teleport will be up again faster than Jaunt will to retry it.  Plus for more minor obstacles, you can jump rather than try to teleport around it.

 

I don't know if we're even bothering to balance around travel powers anymore.  But if we care, my initial impression is that Combat Teleport makes it at least as easy to skip a travel power in conjunction with Ninja Run as does Sentinel/Scrapper Shinobi + Ninja Run.

Super Speed doesn't have a vertical limitation when Jump Pack and Steam Jump can be alternated without downtime.

[aethereal]

1 minute ago, DreadShinobi said:

Super Speed doesn't have a vertical limitation when Jump Pack and Steam Jump can be alternated without downtime.

Yeah, like I said, I'm not sure how much we even care about how travel powers work when you can do so much with temp powers.  But I thought I'd bring the topic up.