Focused Feedback: Travel Updates: Base Teleportation, Long Range Teleporter Accolade, Special TP Powers

[Glacier Peak]

8 minutes ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

It's pretty simple, I think, @Luminara:

Roleplay.

 

There is no shortage of roleplayers in this game.  I can not speak for all roleplayers, but I do try my best to keep a close ear to the concerns of "my people" given the role I have in the OOC and RP Global Channels (which, don't get me wrong; I know there are discords and stuff which are far more active these days, and I'm not the only player out there who is advocating for roleplayers, and not all roleplayers are the same, at et cetera et cetera et cetera . . . but I -am- hearing a LOT of discontent from the ones whom I do try to accurately represent in this forum).

 

The current speed with which roleplayers can use the enterbase command is a thing of absolute beauty!   It's not just about popping in to a nightclub Base, or zoning out to "the real world" when we're done.  We create elaborate scenes and scenarios, with a great deal of travel taking us from locale to locale in a very short amount of time.

enterbase made that a reality, and we absolutely LOVE IT!

 

A lot of the players I've spoken to still aren't aware that this command was never intended for them.  They don't visit the forums and they think the people claiming such as just trolls.

This change is going to hit them pretty hard.

So this feedback that we're offering saying that the current transit Power options aren't ideal, it's with the context that we're looking to soften that blow as much as possible.  We're trying to maintain the level of enjoyment and pleasure we've grown accustomed to playing this game over the past year-and-change.

 

Travel, to us, isn't so much a part of gameplay.   It's a thing that gets in the way of gameplay.   If a scene is supposed to take place during a leisurely walk; cool.   We'll leisurely walk.  But if we're trying to keep a story/act engaged and pithy; sometimes we just need to get from point A to point B instantly.

 

Again, going to emphasize:   I do NOT speak for all roleplayers.  I am just advocating for some of the players who feel their voices will not be heard here; either because they don't trust themselves to speak clearly, or (as is most often the case) they're terrified of being shouted down by "hardcore gamers."

(Also, not saying you're not a roleplayer, @Luminara.  Just so that doesn't seem like an accusation I'm making.)

I don't know if this would suffice, but there was an in-game explanation for these changes that I believe can work with roleplaying:

 

"A strange energy spike in Galaxy City reached the old Supergroup Portal and caused a cascade overload in the entire Teleport network. Most of the damage has been repaired, but destinations in temporal flux have been lost to the past. DJ Zero was called in to establish the new portal in his Pocket Dimension, and as a courtesy he also set up portals in two other dimensions: Praetoria and The Shadow Shard. Vanguard has requested further restrictions of traffic near Paragon Heights while their investigation is in progress."

[@Ghost]

25 minutes ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

There is another issue with having SO MANY of these transit Powers: 

Power Tray Slots

 

Biiiig same. I've already got a floating tray filled up as it is, and screen real estate is at a premium.

 

Scaling the UI and keeping text readable while still finding space for a dumptruck's worth of powers is a heeefty challenge I've been trying to navigate lately. Before you even start considering the heaps of temporary powers, I've got 27 powers from my primary/secondary/ancillary/pools/incarnates that need tray space. A floating tray isn't a bad idea, but it's a band-aid for a bigger problem imo.

[Coyotedancer]

11 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Just telling us that you don't like it because it means you'll have to get badges on a lot of characters doesn't communicate the problems you're envisioning.  So communicate with us.

 

I can try to take a stab at part of this...

 

First off, not all of us are badgers. In my case, I "went there/did that" with Kestrel and Palrah back in the live days and haven't had the least bit of interest in repeating the process here or on closed beta. Aside from picking up a few specific badges to use the titles, they just aren't "a thing" that I chase... That means, like I said elsewhere, that *if* I want to add this fast-travel option to my entire crew, I'd be looking at grinding those accolades a pretty ludicrous number of times. My issue with that is that I have neither the time nor the interest in collecting the same set of badges that many times.

 

Since this LRT transport power is one of the more practical bits of replacing the enterbase command where travel is concerned, NOT having it on the bulk of my crew is going to have an impact. It's likely to mean that I just won't play the ones who lack it quite as often, since they may have more trouble keeping up with their team-mates than the ones who do. 

[mrudat]

Could the summon portal powers be made to:

• Refresh the duration of an existing nearby portal, rather than moving it?
• Require clearance around the portal, similar to the base entrance? (Haven't installed the beta client yet to see if that's already a thing)
• Perhaps summon a door, if targeting a wall? Perhaps a choice of transportation object for portal appearance in future; helicopter, truck, taxi, teleport pad, ...

Perhaps for long range teleport have it unlock account wide if at least two characters have the accolade?

 

Edit: could it be changed so that the P2W and day job powers share an activation icon? If you have a day job charge left, you get the fast recharge, but you only consume a charge if you use the power again within that time? It would have the same effect as having both powers in your tray, but only using the day job version if the P2W is on recharge. I think there's more than just these powers that have such a possible relationship.

 

Edit: moved to other thread: For fold space, could it be changed so that if targetting a team-mate (or pet?) nearby enemies (to you) get teleported into melee range of them? "Hey go bug <Tank>, not me!"

Edited October 24, 2020 by mrudat

[Luminara]

7 minutes ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

It's pretty simple, I think, @Luminara:

Roleplay.

 

There is no shortage of roleplayers in this game.  I can not speak for all roleplayers, but I do try my best to keep a close ear to the concerns of "my people" given the role I have in the OOC and RP Global Channels (which, don't get me wrong; I know there are discords and stuff which are far more active these days, and I'm not the only player out there who is advocating for roleplayers, and not all roleplayers are the same, at et cetera et cetera et cetera . . . but I -am- hearing a LOT of discontent from the ones whom I do try to accurately represent in this forum).

 

The current speed with which roleplayers can use the enterbase command is a thing of absolute beauty!   It's not just about popping in to a nightclub Base, or zoning out to "the real world" when we're done.  We create elaborate scenes and scenarios, with a great deal of travel taking us from locale to locale in a very short amount of time.

enterbase made that a reality, and we absolutely LOVE IT!

 

A lot of the players I've spoken to still aren't aware that this command was never intended for them.  They don't visit the forums and they think the people claiming such as just trolls.

This change is going to hit them pretty hard.

So this feedback that we're offering saying that the current transit Power options aren't ideal, it's with the context that we're looking to soften that blow as much as possible.  We're trying to maintain the level of enjoyment and pleasure we've grown accustomed to playing this game over the past year-and-change.

 

Travel, to us, isn't so much a part of gameplay.   It's a thing that gets in the way of gameplay.   If a scene is supposed to take place during a leisurely walk; cool.   We'll leisurely walk.  But if we're trying to keep a story/act engaged and pithy; sometimes we just need to get from point A to point B instantly.

 

Again, going to emphasize:   I do NOT speak for all roleplayers.  I am just advocating for some of the players who feel their voices will not be heard here; either because they don't trust themselves to speak clearly, or (as is most often the case) they're terrified of being shouted down by "hardcore gamers."

(Also, not saying you're not a roleplayer, @Luminara.  Just so that doesn't seem like an accusation I'm making.)

 

That was all worth quoting.  I'm not going to address it line by line, but it was definitely worth quoting.

 

Okay, so the RPG part of this game is important, people like to fulfill their RPG wishes with multiple characters and they're less interested in other aspects, like exploring, traveling through zones, using the existing transit systems (which, true, don't go everywhere, despite all of the connections), and not having rapid access to zones is a hinderance to that.  That's notable, and I, speaking only for myself, understand your position a little better.  You've got a lot of RP characters, you never really know what you're going to play until you log in, and you may or may not have the necessary badges, and having to fulfill the badge requirement on those which don't have it will cut into the time you could spend doing what you enjoy.

 

How do the currently existing options fail to fill your needs?  You can reach most of the zones in under a minute using any combination of rail/ferry, TUNNEL and portal.  Is that insufficient for most of your characters?  How frequently do you need to travel to different zones, or to zones off the main transit options, like Crey's Folly, Boomtown or Terra Volta?  More frequently than the other options would allow, thus requiring you to get the LRT accolade and zones?

[Vanden]

8 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

Since this LRT transport power is one of the more practical bits of replacing the enterbase command where travel is concerned

Alright, now we're getting somewhere. You see this as a replacement for /enterbasefrompasscode, so that's why you feel like you "have" to collect the accolades on every character. That actually makes a lot more sense.

 

You see? This is the value of communication. Before you explained that to me I saw the complaints as akin to "What the heck Homecoming, this new feature you're adding is a homework assignment."

Edited October 24, 2020 by Vanden

[Blackfeather]

Funnily enough, I don't see the LRT Accolade as the most effective means of transportation given all the other new powers provided in these patches (if anything, it seems more like a fun bonus). I think for the most speed inclined, the Base Teleporter day job power will be the best, with its much shorter recharge time (30s!) - all it needs to build charges is just logging out at a base portal too.

[Coyotedancer]

1 minute ago, Vanden said:

Alright, now we're getting somewhere. You see this as a replacement for /enterbasefrompasscode, so that's why you feel like you "have" to collect the accolades on every character. That actually makes a lot more sense.

 

You see? This is the value of communication. Before you explained that to me I saw the complaints as akin to "What the heck Homecoming, this new feature you're adding is a homework assignment."

 

I can see where it might look that way, yeah. But... no. I'm thinking of this LRT addition as a replacement for "hop to the Sanctum, port over to Zone X" on my gang. That's something that's really come in handy when I'm running with "content" type teams.  

[Glacier Peak]

Folks, there is an important difference between the two long range teleport (LRT) versions right now worth pointing out.

 

• With the beta version, players are gaining access to an additional seven zones and losing access to one zone (Kallisti Wharf due to no explore badges currently). 

Live version of LRT/Shadow Step:

Spoiler

 

Beta version of LRT as a hero with all exploration badges.

Spoiler

 

• As I pointed out previously in this thread, the overall zone number accessible via LRT expanded to twenty seven zones (Vigilante/Rogue alignment), twenty zones for Heroes, and 14 zones for Villains, assuming all exploration badges for their respective zones have been acquired.

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Glacier Peak

[Crowe]

This can most easily be summed up as "you're taking away something you didn't mean to give us (but didn't instantly roll back) and replacing it with a shoeful of dog crap."

Base Access/GM command changes
- Please. Don't.
Easily more than a couple of dozen times, I have done Positron 2 with folks either just returning to the game or those who have never played.  We finish the first mission and then depart for Skyway.  For the new/unaware folks, showing them a base macro and the teleporters is just a pleasure.  Every single time the new person sees it, they exclaim how awesome it is and for returning players how they wished the Live game had had this.  For me personally, being able to have a basically unlimited number of characters was the most awesomething about the revived game.  But the current base access system is a close #2.  Don't take that away unless you have something convenient and super easy to use to replace it.  And that is certainly not the proposed system.

New Accolade: Long Range Teleporter
- Good move. This power sucked. I don't know how many people are going to care enough to get an exploration accolade but good luck to them.

Supergroup Portal
- Bad move. Make the price 1 million and give it a 5 minute CD and it's less awful but still nowhere near as nice as the current system.

Team Transporter
- If you're insisting on going live with the awful base access/command changes, then the price for TT should be dropped to 1 million and the CD to 5 minutes.

[Luminara]

24 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

I can try to take a stab at part of this...

 

First off, not all of us are badgers. In my case, I "went there/did that" with Kestrel and Palrah back in the live days and haven't had the least bit of interest in repeating the process here or on closed beta. Aside from picking up a few specific badges to use the titles, they just aren't "a thing" that I chase... That means, like I said elsewhere, that *if* I want to add this fast-travel option to my entire crew, I'd be looking at grinding those accolades a pretty ludicrous number of times. My issue with that is that I have neither the time nor the interest in collecting the same set of badges that many times.

 

Since this LRT transport power is one of the more practical bits of replacing the enterbase command where travel is concerned, NOT having it on the bulk of my crew is going to have an impact. It's likely to mean that I just won't play the ones who lack it quite as often, since they may have more trouble keeping up with their team-mates than the ones who do. 

 

I'm not a badger either, so I understand.  What's not necessary can be left for later, or never.  My question, then, is, are the existing options unpalatable in some specific way?  I know it takes a few seconds for the tram to roll over and send us to other zones, but we've also got the TUNNEL, several portal and base portal options, so what makes the LRT accolade and accompanying zone unlocks the primary issue?  The recharge times on the portal/base portal options?  The movement from, to give an example, the transit system to the TUNNEL system?  Is it just not being able to go anywhere on a whim, or is it a specific need that all of the combined options fail to address, yet the LRT accolade would address?  Too many load screens, too many transport hops, what?

[CrudeVileTerror]

I don't think it's a shoeful of dog crap, @Crowe . . . but yeah, I empathize with your point of view.  The optics on this are already going to be kind of bad.  Not as bad as disabling the Double Inf feature, of course, and the Devs certainly look like they're trying to throw us some bones, so overall it will hopefully be a less rocky road than last time.  

I think the Devs are moving in the right direction here.  These new transit Powers just need to be tweaked to make them worthwhile and standardized across the board.  

[Player2]

50 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

No-one's trying to be an ass.  There's a lot of communication that isn't happening in this thread, despite all of the talk.

 

People are saying that they have hundreds of characters and the LRT accolade is a bad thing for them.  Some of us don't understand why anyone needs the accolade on that many characters.  Explain it to us.  Help us understand.

 

People are saying that it's going to take too long to acquire the badges.  Those of us who disagree are seeing it from a different perspective, we're either picking up the badges as we go, or we're taking our end-game character back to zones to get them later, and not finding it difficult to complete the set for every zone.  Yes, it's going to take longer to do that with multiple characters, but were those exploration badges skipped initially on all of those characters because they were difficult to acquire?  Was it because they weren't worth the effort to pick up on the way to missions, even if they were right next to the line of travel?  Were the badges skipped because the characters were power-leveled?  What?

I don't see the problem with this.  Yes, there's extra time involved if one wants to acquire all the badges for all of their characters.  But as a bonus for this necessity, the power is now available to everyone and does not need to have Teleport worked into their build to get the power.  And really, are there people with so many characters with all of them having teleport on it to begin with?

 

I think the compromise works just fine, really.  And there are so many other ways of getting around now, even with the base portal access being restricted to being near a base portal to use the code.

 

I am happy to see 99% of these changes implemented (but still 1% sad about the reduced time on the Ouroboros portal duration).

[InfamousBrad]

Why is Boomtown, already one of the most annoying zones to travel to, missing from Long Range Teleport?

 

Also, I'd really like to ask you, please, not to kill the sg portal access to the Echo zones. Making Ouroboros accessible at level 1 but only if someone else opens a portal for you is going to mean non-stop spamming of requests for portals in all the starting zones, and we really don't need more chat spam.

[Moonlighter]

 

Okay after playing several arcs testing other stuff I can share my experiences.

 

Not being able to instantly leave a combat area is a good change.

 

Not going to lie, not being able to go to the base from the outside felt bad. Annoying. I want to support changes, but nothing about this in anyway added to enjoyment of me or my group.

 

~ On live I actually started doing the old Talos, Bricks, and FF arcs that make you zone every mission as they were tolerable with the ability to come out of the mission and hit the base. Now I would likely start skipping those again; they are *so* much worse on test. I started one and the constant zoning is bad enough when you start by zipping into the base and then zone and travel. On test starting these was super annoying and probably removed that content from my play cycle. Which sucks because I don't want to fill those 30-45 holes at AE.

 

~ Making small adjustments to costumes if I messed something up is much worse, and this actually happened to me on test.

 

~ I just do not want the extra time waiting around for team mates to level when grouping. Waiting for team member three to run through the zone to grab that key power at 18 while we are waiting in the mission entrance is not something that makes for a better game.

 

~ I found I had plenty of time to appreciate travel powers when I came out of the base portal and zoomed across the zone to the mission. Adding an after mission component to traveling to the base portal is honestly not adding any enjoyment or coolness to the game like I hoped.

 

~ I didn't get a chance to do serious crafting on test, but I *think* this will be okay if the Rikti War Zone portal comes out at the base portal in the Vanguard base, since I can go there and have much of what I need. I can use the base portal to grab things from base bins.

 

 

 

[Player2]

3 minutes ago, InfamousBrad said:

Why is Boomtown, already one of the most annoying zones to travel to, missing from Long Range Teleport?

 

Also, I'd really like to ask you, please, not to kill the sg portal access to the Echo zones. Making Ouroboros accessible at level 1 but only if someone else opens a portal for you is going to mean non-stop spamming of requests for portals in all the starting zones, and we really don't need more chat spam.

Maybe what we need is a base teleporter beacon that can take us to Ouroboros.

 

Or another in-game shortcut to be added like how the House Hunter badge in Night Ward gave people immediate access to the Midnight Club without having to run the university missions.

 

If such a shortcut were added, where would be the best place to put it?

 

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Player2

[Coyotedancer]

4 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

I'm not a badger either, so I understand.  What's not necessary can be left for later, or never.  My question, then, is, are the existing options unpalatable in some specific way?  I know it takes a few seconds for the tram to roll over and send us to other zones, but we've also got the TUNNEL, several portal and base portal options, so what makes the LRT accolade and accompanying zone unlocks the primary issue?  The recharge times on the portal/base portal options?  The movement from, to give an example, the transit system to the TUNNEL system?  Is it just not being able to go anywhere on a whim, or is it a specific need that all of the combined options fail to address, yet the LRT accolade would address?  Too many load screens, too many transport hops, what?

 

Time is the bulk of it.

Not only do I have fairly slow load times, but all of my characters are fliers. By the time I've flapped my way to the tunnel or tram or base portal, waited to load the zone, and then flapped my way to the mission door and waited for the map to load, my team of Superspeed fans may be half-way through the mission.  The quick hop to the base didn't help with loading times,  but it did save me from having to wing my slow butt across at least one zone. 🤣 

[Vanden]

7 minutes ago, InfamousBrad said:

Also, I'd really like to ask you, please, not to kill the sg portal access to the Echo zones. Making Ouroboros accessible at level 1 but only if someone else opens a portal for you is going to mean non-stop spamming of requests for portals in all the starting zones, and we really don't need more chat spam.

You can unlock Ouro at level 1 without talking to anyone by using the TUNNEL to go to Night Ward, grabbing the Midnighter badge, and then going to Cimerora through the Midnight Club and grabbing the exploration badge there.

[ShardWarrior]

7 minutes ago, Vanden said:

You can unlock Ouro at level 1 without talking to anyone by using the TUNNEL to go to Night Ward, grabbing the Midnighter badge, and then going to Cimerora through the Midnight Club and grabbing the exploration badge there.

Reading this I think I can still see people spamming requests for Oro portals in the starting zones lol 😁

[Player2]

Totally, and I have been guilty of it myself occasionally.

[Luminara]

2 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

Time is the bulk of it.

Not only do I have fairly slow load times, but all of my characters are fliers. By the time I've flapped my way to the tunnel or tram or base portal, waited to load the zone, and then flapped my way to the mission door and waited for the map to load, my team of Superspeed fans may be half-way through the mission.  The quick hop to the base didn't help with loading times,  but it did save me from having to wing my slow butt across at least one zone. 🤣 

 

I can understand that, too.  You Fly people are slower than my Hurdle bunnies.  😜

 

What about the other options, though?  The Base Transporter P2W power, the two base portal day job powers, the SG Portal P2W power, the Team Transporter P2W power, the Mission Transporter P2W power?  Even with 5-10 minute recharge times and limited charges, there seem to be a plethora of options, enough to allow you to go anywhere in the game any time you want without enduring multiple load screens, or having to pick up every exploration badge in every zone on every character.  The Pocket D VIP pass, Ouroboros, or the multiple AH teleporters would save you at least some travel, as well.  Is that not sufficient to compensate for the loss of the slash command?  If not, in what way do they come up short?

 

I know there's a concern for power tray slots, but what else is lacking here to give you enough travel options to make it palatable without forcing you to turn to the LRT accolade if you don't want to?

[Coyotedancer]

4 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

I can understand that, too.  You Fly people are slower than my Hurdle bunnies.  😜

 

What about the other options, though?  The Base Transporter P2W power, the two base portal day job powers, the SG Portal P2W power, the Team Transporter P2W power, the Mission Transporter P2W power?  Even with 5-10 minute recharge times and limited charges, there seem to be a plethora of options, enough to allow you to go anywhere in the game any time you want without enduring multiple load screens, or having to pick up every exploration badge in every zone on every character.  The Pocket D VIP pass, Ouroboros, or the multiple AH teleporters would save you at least some travel, as well.  Is that not sufficient to compensate for the loss of the slash command?  If not, in what way do they come up short?

 

I know there's a concern for power tray slots, but what else is lacking here to give you enough travel options to make it palatable without forcing you to turn to the LRT accolade if you don't want to?

You're making the assumption that everyone is going to have those, for one thing. 10m a pop isn't cheap for non-farmer/non-marketeer players, so you can't bank on every team having people that bought them. (I *am* a farmer and can still count on one hand the number of my characters here on Homecoming that have the Team Transporter power, for instance.)  The recharge timing on the Supergroup portal and Team Transport are both pretty brutal, too. If only one person on the team has it, it's probably not going to be available for every hop if the gang is at all speedy about completing missions. That's one of the reasons I'm in favor of lowering the recharge time on at the least the Supergroup portal summoning. Making sure it's likely to be back and available after a mission would help a lot, I think. 

 

As for the two base transporter powers... They're freebies, which is good... But you have to know the day job powers exist, and you have to have gotten them. That's not going to be universal. Also, the number of charges can be an issue if you don't routinely remember to park yourself next to a portal when you log the character. 30 charges is better than 10, certainly, but forget to log in the right place a few times and you may still find yourself out of luck on the far end of Crey's Folly. (Ask me how I know that. 😆 ) 

[Mr. Vee]

Another issue I have with the changes are the zones where the current base exit is far more convenient as an option than the base portal location - let's take brickstown for example. currently you have 3 entry points - you can lfg to manticore (assuming solo), take the train, or use the base exit. the former two take you to the northwest corner, which is where the sg portal also is. the current base exit takes you down to the southwest near the crey's entrance. That extra entry point is often incredibly convenient - i very often on manticore exit a mish, see where then next is and use the base macro to get to it and assemble faster than my teammates can get a third of the way there. it's also the most convenient entry point for hunts in manti/numi.

 

just off the top of my head i know of several zones where having that extra exit point saves time in certain situations but would now have those entry points basically duplicating an ouro or train exit - atlas, sharkhead, st. m, nerva, founders, rwz.

[CrudeVileTerror]

And it bears repeating:  You can only refill one (or two, in rare occasion) Day Jobs at a time.  Having to decide which one to refill already gets irksome, especially when you'd rather be stockpiling time for one of the "on mission complete" Day Jobs.

[Luminara]

3 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

You're making the assumption that everyone is going to have those, for one thing. 10m a pop isn't cheap for non-farmer/non-marketeer players, so you can't bank on every team having people that bought them. (I *am* a farmer and can still count on one hand the number of my characters here on Homecoming that have the Team Transporter power, for instance.)  The recharge timing on the Supergroup portal and Team Transport are both pretty brutal, too. If only one person on the team has it, it's probably not going to be available for every hop if the gang is at all speedy about completing missions. That's one of the reasons I'm in favor of lowering the recharge time on at the least the Supergroup portal summoning. Making sure it's likely to be back and available after a mission would help a lot, I think. 

 

As for the two base transporter powers... They're freebies, which is good... But you have to know the day job powers exist, and you have to have gotten them. That's not going to be universal. Also, the number of charges can be an issue if you don't routinely remember to park yourself next to a portal when you log the character. 30 charges is better than 10, certainly, but forget to log in the right place a few times and you may still find yourself out of luck on the far end of Crey's Folly. (Ask me how I know that. 😆 ) 

 

Thanks, @Coyotedancer.  A lot of the comments in this thread are more comprehensible now.

 

@Jimmy, are you and the rest of the crew noting this?  She's raising some valid points.  So has @CrudeVileTerror.  This is some solid feedback on how the removal of the slash command is going to affect players, and the ways the replacement options need to fill the gap.