Focused Feedback: Travel Updates: Base Teleportation, Long Range Teleporter Accolade, Special TP Powers

[golstat2003]

5 hours ago, Wavicle said:

To be even clearer, I am very happy with the travel changes. If we have to sit in PD for an hour or take five minutes getting the Atlas explores on each toon, that's ok. That's worth 5 merits, after all.

I'm also fine with the travel changes.

[Ironblade]

On 11/14/2020 at 4:03 PM, GadgetDon said:

I'll miss the back door for getting into Ouroboros. Hmmm... will the portal last long enough that I can drop it, change characters, and go through?

Yes.  It lasts two minutes even if you go through it, leave the zone, etc.

[Megajoule]

On 11/13/2020 at 2:13 PM, @Ghost said:

The current 0-cost options are still centered around VidiotMaps, standing around for an hour, or temporary options for logging off for a while. Something more akin to the "one free Ninja Run/Beast Run" to get people started with subsequent purchasables seems more accessible than current means, and could breadcrumb other options with the Fast Travel menu.

I've been playing since Issue 2, and have never had VidiotMaps installed on my machine.  And yet I have used the maps to find badges... by going to the wiki (and before that, to their original website).  Only requirements are a working web browser and the ability to compare two images.  If you can't tab out of the game and read a guide or a map, you're gonna have problems a lot worse than not being able to get around Paragon or the Isles.

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Megajoule

[thunderforce]

On 11/15/2020 at 4:19 AM, ivanhedgehog said:

you might want to read...what is the effect on new players?

New players don't do the Shards TFs, since you have to be level 40 to do them, and once again I was replying to somone specifically asking about the Shards TFs. Hence, there will be no effect on new players in the context I was discussing.

[RCU7115]

On 11/13/2020 at 8:32 PM, gromartwo said:

I like the idea of the Long Range Teleporter but not the execution exactly. It is already very easy to get around the zones.

 

You should have to work a little to get the Long Range Teleporter. I was hoping that the devs would use the example of the SG Beacons - ie: you needed most of the exploration badges to unlock the beacon. It makes more sense for each zone to be unlocked by the zone exploration accolade not just one location badge. If a player is too lazy to visit all of Boomtown's exploration spots (for example) to get the accolade then he has to do without teleporting to that zone.

I have over 40 toons on my 3 accounts. I  have all of them get the explore badges and history plaques for the accolades along with the 5 reward merits. The only zones I don't do are the shards, the 2 sewer zones and the preatoria zones. I eventually do go get the badges in those zones after I enter First Ward for the 4 day job badges. The explore badges usually takes about 5 minutes per zone depending on your choice of travel power.

Edited November 16, 2020 by RCU7115

[@Ghost]

11 hours ago, Megajoule said:

I've been playing since Issue 2, and have never had VidiotMaps installed on my machine.  And yet I have used the maps to find badges... by going to the wiki (and before that, to their original website).  Only requirements are a working web browser and the ability to compare two images.  If you can't tab out of the game and read a guide or a map, you're gonna have problems a lot worse than not being able to get around Paragon or the Isles.

And why did you go to those lengths to pick up those badges? Bragging rights? A neat side system to engage with? Whatever the answer is, I guarantee it's not "to unlock travel functionality." Maybe it was to unlock base beacons at some point, but hey, those are unlocked and free by default on HC! Isn't that easier, convenient, and respectful of your time? 🙂

 

There's no way polite way to put it, but this game as a whole is pretty jank and poorly tutorialized. I speak from the experience of trying to intro so many people over the years who're used to modern videogames and having them bounce off because so much stuff gets to be obtuse and needs a wiki to help. There's nothing wrong with having things be simple and accessible. This current iteration of travel options is overdesigned and inelegant, but people like you and me have been playing this game for 15ish years and can deal with it - I'm just trying to look out for the people who don't have that luxury of experience.

[ZacKing]

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2020 at 8:07 AM, Faultline said:

@Blackbird71 I see your point now, and I disagree. LRT takes a couple of minutes to get and it's a lot more flexible than Ouroboros as a travel hub, and that is the option that is being encouraged the most, which is why it's hinted in the Passport badge right after character creation. However, since there are some players who say that getting an exploration accolade or waiting an hour in Pocket D is too much to ask for a basic travel hub, I pointed out that the Ouroboros portal has no such requirements. It is also more limited, by design, due to its ease of access. The Ouroboros portal exists, and so it has to be considered when balancing the various options that players have access to.

 

Another way that we encourage LRT over Ouroboros is by having LRT validate /ebfc as a valid destination. Contrary to public perception, we want to keep player made bases as travel hubs which you can access easily; as soon as you unlock LRT with any zone, you can use a player made base to go anywhere else.

Encouraging LRT as the new travel hub kinda kills bases, doesn't it?   Unless that's the overall goal for this stuff?

[thunderforce]

26 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

Encouraging LRT as the new travel hub kinda kills bases, doesn't it?   Unless that's the overall goal for this stuff?

Only if you have the exploration accolade in every zone you might want to travel to. Keen badgehunters aside, I suspect that is not usually true.

[Jacke]

On 11/17/2020 at 7:28 AM, ZacKing said:

Encouraging LRT as the new travel hub kinda kills bases, doesn't it?   Unless that's the overall goal for this stuff?

Bases are even more important now with Issue 27.  A lot of the changes in i27p1 are interlocking to give players a newer better system.

 

To get the Zone Base Beacons and install them in a base to power the Base Teleporters, there's no need to have Exploration Badges and Accolades.  They are just available in the Base Editor, all of them that are available for the current City Issue.

 

In Issue 27, every time I use a Base Teleporter, I just don't get dropped off anywhere in a Zone, as has happened in City since it's launch, I now get dropped right near the Zone's own Base Portal, so I can go back into my Base or any other's without using any powers.

 

I unlock the Long Range Teleport power and unlock Zones in it, it doesn't just drop me anywhere  in a Zone, it drops me right near the Base Portal.

 

I have a 5-Teleporter system that I am easily adapting to i27p1.  Currently it's 2 Pads for the 18 Beacons in Paragon City Hero-only, 1 Pad for the Rogue Isles, 1 Pad for Co-op Zones, and 1 pad for the Ouroboros Echo Zones.  The Base Beacons used for Echo:Galaxy City and Echo:Dark Astoria are gone with i27p1, but there's 4 new Beacons for the Shadow Shard zones, so the Ouroboros Pad is now the Shadow Shard Pad.

 

And my Co-op Zone Pad has many more zones.  In Issue 26, it has Dark Astoria (the Level 50 Incarnate Zone), First Ward, Night Ward, Rikti War Zone, and Pocket D.  Issue 27 has all those and now Kallisti Wharf, Nova Praetoria, Imperial City, and Neutropolis.

 

And the Custom Window feature in City allows you to store and edit Base Macros.  The /enterbasefrompasscode command is still usable when close to a Zone or summoned Base Portal.  There's limited documentation for Custom Window in the Wiki, but the start of it is in the Paragon Chat article.

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Paragon_Chat

Quote

/customwindow name

Creates a custom macro window titled name. Displays macros that are available across all characters. This window will only persist if your installation folder contains a /data/customwindows folder (create one if you don't have one already).

 

• Out of game, create the folder <install root>/data/customwindows/
• In game, enter the command "/customwindow Bases

In game, you'll see a little grey box "Bases" in the upper left of your screen.

 

Since "data/customwindows/" exists, that creates the file "custom.window" in it to store the window information between logins.  It's text and can be editted by any text editor like Notepad++.  But it can be editted in game as well.

 

Because it's in "data/", with the new Homecoming Launcher, it will be available in all Game Profiles, Live, Prerelease, and Beta.  And on all Shards of all of them.

 

Back in game, click on the little grey box "Bases", it expands into the Custom Window.  Click on "Bases" again, it shrinks to a little grey box.  The Custom Window stores Macros.  Whether as a little grey box or a window, it cna be dragged anywhere on your screen and it will stay there, even between logins (thanks to data/customwindows/custom.window file).  The Custom Window can be resized as well.

 

The Custom Window has wide blue buttons that are Macros.

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Macro_(Slash_Command)

 

The Custom Window starts with one "Edit Me" and a button to make new Macros, "New Command".

 

Right-click on a Macro Button and you get "Edit Name", "Edit Command", and "Delete".

 

But you can also make Macros by commands and drag them into the window.

/macro "JACKE Torchbearer" "enterbasefrompasscode JACKE-673"
/macro "JACKE Excelsior" "enterbasefrompasscode JACKE-83"
/macro "JACKE Indomitable" "enterbasefrompasscode JACKE-439"
/macro "JACKE Everlasting" "enterbasefrompasscode JACKE-673"
/macro "JACKE Reunion" "enterbasefrompasscode JACKE-459"

EDIT: Even better, below @jimmy pointed out that these Macros could be combined into one.  I did that and reported back it works.

 

On 11/17/2020 at 1:31 PM, Jacke said:

And indeed it does work.  Gets a bunch of "that didn't work" messages but the one that works engages.

 

/macro "JACKE Homecoming" "enterbasefrompasscode JACKE-673$$enterbasefrompasscode JACKE-83$$enterbasefrompasscode JACKE-439$$enterbasefrompasscode JACKE-673$$enterbasefrompasscode JACKE-459"

 

 

The Macros are created as grey button in the first open spot in your trays can be dragged to the Custom Window, where it will be moved and become a new Blue Button.  "New Command" is always at the bottom, but the other buttons can be resized.

 

And unlike a Macro in a tray, the name can be editted.

 

So on the respective Shards, get close to a Base Portal, either Zone or summoned, and click the appropriate button.  And you'll enter my JACKE SG bases on that Shard.  (Only really built up on Torchbearer and Everlasting riught now).

Edited November 19, 2020 by Jacke

[Wavicle]

2 hours ago, thunderforce said:

Only if you have the exploration accolade in every zone you might want to travel to. Keen badgehunters aside, I suspect that is not usually true.

1 accolade. After the first it only takes 1 badge per zone.

[Wavicle]

3 hours ago, ZacKing said:

Encouraging LRT as the new travel hub kinda kills bases, doesn't it?   Unless that's the overall goal for this stuff?

Nah, because LRTP is on a fairly long timer. Bases will still be used heavily. 

[Jimmy]

1 hour ago, Jacke said:

But you can also make Macros by commands and drag them into the window.

/macro "JACKE Torchbearer" "enterbasefrompasscode JACKE-673"
/macro "JACKE Excelsior" "enterbasefrompasscode JACKE-83"
/macro "JACKE Indomitable" "enterbasefrompasscode JACKE-439"
/macro "JACKE Everlasting" "enterbasefrompasscode JACKE-673"
/macro "JACKE Reunion" "enterbasefrompasscode JACKE-459"

The Macros are created as grey button in the first open spot in your trays can be dragged to the Custom Window, where it will be moved and become a new Blue Button.  "New Command" is always at the bottom, but the other buttons can be resized.

You should actually be able to put all of these commands into a single macro. Depending on the shard you're on, the other 4 passcodes should just fail. Maybe. Give it a go and let us know 🙂

[GadgetDon]

3 hours ago, ZacKing said:

Encouraging LRT as the new travel hub kinda kills bases, doesn't it?   Unless that's the overall goal for this stuff?

Bases aren't just for traveling. Between MSR runs, I can pop to a base to train, sell enhancements, craft, trade in merit rewards, buy inspirations. And with the base macro and the temporary base portal (first thing I checked on beta), it returns you to right where you were (assuming you went to the base from the general map as opposed to a mission). Currently, it's usually faster to go to a base to deal with those than travel halfway across a zone (and back).

[Gunrunner]

On 11/13/2020 at 9:51 PM, Wavicle said:

By the time they get to the Shadow Shard? Yes, they do.

No.  No, they don't.  I've been playing on HC for nearly a year, and I did not feel comfortable dropping that much cash at once until a few months ago.  I for damn sure did not even have possession of that much green while I was still "new".  A 10 mil pricetag is a paywall, pure and simple.

[Jimmy]

Just now, Gunrunner said:

No.  No, they don't.  I've been playing on HC for nearly a year, and I did not feel comfortable dropping that much cash at once until a few months ago.  I for damn sure did not even have possession of that much green while I was still "new".  A 10 mil pricetag is a paywall, pure and simple.

It's not a paywall. It's a gold sink. There's a significant difference.

 

The summoned base portal is a luxury, not a necessity.

 

In the Shadow Shard specifically you can jump off the map and be teleported to a location near the base portal in each of the zones.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Gunrunner said:

No.  No, they don't.  I've been playing on HC for nearly a year, and I did not feel comfortable dropping that much cash at once until a few months ago.  I for damn sure did not even have possession of that much green while I was still "new".  A 10 mil pricetag is a paywall, pure and simple.

They CAN, if they prioritize that way. Nevertheless, you don’t NEED the 10 mill one. The one mill and unlockable versions are enough.

[Gunrunner]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

It's not a paywall. It's a gold sink. There's a significant difference.

 

The summoned base portal is a luxury, not a necessity.

 

In the Shadow Shard specifically you can jump off the map and be teleported to a location near the base portal in each of the zones.

It's semantics. 

 

Look, over the course of this thread I've come to accept that the changes envisaged are actually pretty good.  Been logging out next to, and using, base portals to get used to the idea again.  My point here is that in practical application, a 10 million inf pricetag is a paywall to a player who has yet to amass the discretionary income required.  Ok, it's a luxury, but it's an artificially created one. 

 

Admittedly, some of the replacements for /ebfp look to be a simple matter to obtain, so buying the portal will be an extravagance, little more.  What I initially took exception to in my previous post was the assumption that by an arbitrary point in their career, a given toon should be be able to purchase such luxuries.  This is not the case.  For me, it took dozens of toons, a good six months, and little help from my friends, before I could comfortably drop large sums on any particular toon, much less the whole rack.

[Jimmy]

20 minutes ago, Gunrunner said:

My point here is that in practical application, a 10 million inf pricetag is a paywall to a player who has yet to amass the discretionary income required.  Ok, it's a luxury, but it's an artificially created one. 

Again, it's not a paywall. Paywalls exist to extract real money from a consumer in order to enrich a business or individual in a capitalist system.

 

Gold sinks exist to regulate an in-game economy to prevent runaway inflation and keep prices reasonable for everyone. Nobody gets that money. It's gone.

 

Players who feel 10 million is a steep price are the same players who benefit most from Homecoming having a heavily regulated economy with plentiful inf sinks. This portal is one of those sinks.

[GadgetDon]

1 minute ago, Jimmy said:

Again, it's not a paywall. Paywalls exist to extract real money from a consumer in order to enrich a business or individual in a capitalist system.

 

Gold sinks exist to regulate an in-game economy to prevent runaway inflation and keep prices reasonable for everyone. Nobody gets that money. It's gone.

 

Players who feel 10 million is a steep price are the same players who benefit most from Homecoming having a heavily regulated economy with plentiful inf sinks. This portal is one of those sinks.

It's a HUGE gold sink, and it's a ONE TIME gold sink. So those who know how to make big influence will groan but be over and done with it, while those whose playstyle/level/number of alts don't add up to big incomes mean that they'll be denied something that reduces so much of the annoying tedium from live. I don't have the facts on how much inf most players have, but being on task forces and pulling out the Team Teleport with some players going "I can't imagine ever affording that", I'm not sure it's good to exacerbate a community divided into the haves and the have nots.

 

For me, it'll be an annoyance, because I'm serially monogamous with my characters 😉 - I take one, play it until it's a powerful incarnate with all slots unlocked and at T3-T4, and then start a new one. So, when I start a new character, I've got the influence to give the new one an "inheritance" of 15-20 million. And it won't be that much of a problem to now raise it to 25-30 million. But if I was leveling multiple alts at once, starting several at the same time, big issue.

 

It's your game, you know the numbers. But the best part of CoH was always the community. And I really don't want to see it damaged.

[Jimmy]

16 minutes ago, GadgetDon said:

they'll be denied something that reduces so much of the annoying tedium from live

This is simply not the case though. You have LRT and Ouro for free, and for 1 million a piece you can get a personal base transporter and a personal mission transporter. Or you can of course fly / run / jump to the nearest base portal, which after i27 will be a much more frequent option due to all the new and moved portals. Or you can opt for the day job powers. There's tons of choices available, and you definitely don't need all of them. You can pick what's right for you.

 

The summoned base portal is absolutely an optional luxury, the same way that the team mission transporter is (which also costs 10 million). Note that these are the team-wide powers, you are not left behind by not having them, because the entire team can make use of them.

[Luminara]

11 minutes ago, Gunrunner said:

Ok, it's a luxury, but it's an artificially created one.

Isn't every luxury?

 

33 minutes ago, Gunrunner said:

It's semantics.

 

No it isn't.  A pay wall would restrict players from entering certain bases or zones at all unless they paid for the item.  That's not the case here.

[Luminara]

22 minutes ago, GadgetDon said:

It's a HUGE gold sink

 

It's really not.  I had more than that before the end of my first week when I started on the HC servers.

[ForeverLaxx]

Run a few TFs, buy converters with the merits, and sell them to the AH at "sell it now" prices and you'll get more than 10mil pretty easily. This is even the lazy, technically low-end way to amass influence and it's still adequate enough that I pretty much do it exclusively (I don't farm or "play the AH"). That said, a single, one-time purchase is less of an "Influence Sink" and more a "tax" if you want as many options as possible. I sincerely doubt a single purchase of 10 million is going to affect inflation in any significant way and suggesting that it would feels disingenuous to me. I get the theory (if all players pay for it, that's 30 quadrillion influence deleted!), but in practice I just don't see it as a proper influence sink; single purchases rarely work out that way in practice unless the price is exorbitant, and 10mil doesn't qualify.

 

In any case though, 10mil isn't that hard to come by if you're using the AH for any amount of time. You're going to have a hard time justifying a reduction in price, particularly when you consider how many other options exist that cost nothing but time and get the job done just as well.

[Jimmy]

17 minutes ago, ForeverLaxx said:

I sincerely doubt a single purchase of 10 million is going to affect inflation in any significant way and suggesting that it would feels disingenuous to me. I get the theory (if all players pay for it, that's 30 quadrillion influence deleted!), but in practice I just don't see it as a proper influence sink; single purchases rarely work out that way in practice unless the price is exorbitant, and 10mil doesn't qualify.

We did pull a handful of stats on this recently. On Excelsior alone:

• 12.5 billion has been spent by players purchasing the Pocket D VIP teleporter power (ie: people who didn't get it via the badge)
• 260.1 billion has been spent by players purchasing Team Transporter
• 44.5 billion has been spent by players purchasing Mission Transporter
• 22 billion has been spent by players purchasing Base Transporter

Not huge, but it's not nothing, especially considering that's just four powers on one server, and it's influence that's been completely removed from the game.

 

We don't have a good way to track exactly how much has been spent on one-time purchases in P2W across all servers since HC launched, but it's probably quite a bit.

[ForeverLaxx]

1 minute ago, Jimmy said:

We did pull a handful of stats on this recently. On Excelsior alone, approximately 12.5 billion has been spent by players purchasing just the Pocket D VIP teleporter power (ie: people who didn't get it via the badge).

 

Not huge, but it's not nothing, especially considering that's just one power on one server, and it's influence that's been completely removed from the game.

 

We don't have a good way to track exactly how much has been spent on one-time purchases in P2W across all servers since HC launched, but it's probably quite a bit.

Fair enough. I suppose with enough "one time" purchases, as a unit, they can affect inflation levels. Of course, I just sat in Pocket D for an hour messing with costumes/bios and never paid for that badge/power. I feel like I should be surprised people would pay influence for something they can get easily for free, but I'm not.