Aw, Statesman!

[Vanden]

 

Seeing Imperious in his Halloween costume made me realize how much I miss the old jerk. The STF and LRSF really should be reverted to their pre-i24 versions, just with a note about how they take place before he died.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Vanden

[Nebulhym]

I must say, even after all these years, he does look fierce! I have to say I miss the big guy too!

[Darmian]

As a character he had so much potential, and if you can get your hands on a copy of The Web of Arachnos then that comes across really well, but sadly that's the height of how he was written. (He wasn't bad either in The Freedom Phalanx novel),  There's a lot of bo***cks written about him being a bad character when some are just projecting the use of him on to him as a character independent of his creators, and as, effectively, a comic book style originated character he does have a creator, but that's not the same as ownership.

 

So at the least maybe the STF and LRSF be placed in Ouro like Sister Psyche's TF?

Edited October 29, 2020 by Darmian

[Darmian]

Were there some questionable choices made in depicting his actions in the game and the comic? Yep.  Retcon them.  We're in a comic book world here. Retcon them. Turns out it didn't happen that way! 

[Greycat]

I have to admit, my recollection in the early game was more "Oh, sure, statesman did stuff. Hmm? Yeah, he's ...er... around. Somewhere. I'm sure." Then you get to the 45-50 range and it's "Oh. Er, by the way, he's been captured by his evil double in Praetoria. Could you be a dear and go rescue him? Thanks."

 

Basically a lot of tell and no show.

[tidge]

I have only one bias, and it dates from launch: "Statesman is a Tanker?"

[Darmian]

Or rather that never happened now. 🙂  Retcons!

 

No, my point is he could have been written a lot better (and in the novels he was!) and so much complaint about him is, as we know, effectively a combination of reportage of stupid moves dictated to "move things along" by the original creator, and projecting feelings about that creator on to a character that, like any comic book character, could be rewritten, redeemed, Crisis on Infinite Earthed, whatever, to be better than any of that.

[Mister Mass]

Darmian hit on one of the reasons for much of the StatesHate we see - so many players dislike the character because of the negative feelings they have for the developer.

 

And as Greycat noted, as a player you have very little interaction with the character, & when you do, it is to rescue him from his (apparently much more powerful) evil dimensional duplicate.

 

Statesman was supposed to be this powerful iconic figure in the game, but it just never effectively came across that way.  Instead, to many players, he just seemed more of a Mary Sue than an icon.

 

 That said, I do miss him to some degree - but not enough to want him back.  I would prefer that the game do what comics almost never can do - leave the dead alone & move on, allowing other characters to develop & grow, & eventually take up the mantle of iconic hero, earned by accomplishments you actually witness & take part in, instead of past history that you are only told about.

 

So if Statesman’s role as chief iconic hero is to be replaced, I would rather see Hero One or Ms. Liberty take up the mantle, instead of a revived Statesman or a heroic version of one of his various dimensional or temporal duplicates.

[VV]

6 hours ago, Darmian said:

So at the least maybe the STF and LRSF be placed in Ouro like Sister Psyche's TF?

This makes a LOT of sense. Actually, I kind of thought it was, but I never really checked.

[Greycat]

I'd have to agree with "Leave states dead." I don't, and never did, hate the character. He just did nothing to impress - and honestly, I kind of liked the "OK, you can rest now" during his death. He'd been heroing for decades.

 

That said, some "in the past" arcs where you're fighting alongside him or helping or something via Ouro? I wouldn't argue. He's in the middle of lore moments like the first Rikti invasion, the Nemesis invasion, discovering 'dyne's "see other dimensions" (at least what I gather from boomtown plaques) properties and more. Plenty to work with.

[macskull]

22 minutes ago, VV said:

This makes a LOT of sense. Actually, I kind of thought it was, but I never really checked.

Is there a difference between the STF and MLTF other than the name and the contact that gives it?

[Solarverse]

17 hours ago, Vanden said:

 

Seeing Imperious in his Halloween costume made me realize how much I miss the old jerk. The STF and LRSF really should be reverted to their pre-i24 versions, just with a note about how they take place before he died.

I tried to make a suggestion to bring him back once...but I think the community grabbed their pitch forks and torches and thumped me over the head for it. I had never realized how much the community hated him until then...and I fought tooth and nail arguing in favor of his return. I still have the bruises and war scars from the forum battles that day, lol.

Honestly, if it were not for Statesman, United States would most likely never have existed.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Solarverse

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, Mister Mass said:

Darmian hit on one of the reasons for much of the StatesHate we see - so many players dislike the character because of the negative feelings they have for the developer.

I suggested this very reason myself and was almost put on trial and tortured for suggesting that was the possible psychological reason behind the hate. Careful...  lol

Found it!
 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Solarverse

[Darmian]

Well, I think now that he IS dead we should let him rest, HOWEVER, time travel missions being what they are then he can still play a part and probably should. And I think, if you've read them, Solaverse, I defy any of the StatesHaters to read the novels and not think he's a good and empathetic, and mainly human character, when NOT written by his original creator.

 

Look, it's simple enough here. Superman is created by Siegal & Shuster (and I'm not levelling the hate that JE got at them) but frankly give me Grant Morrison's All Star Superman any day.  Statesman is entirely workable as a character, he just needs to BE a character as opposed to a hat for a dev to wear.

 

Who wouldn't want to see a time travel mish set in the 30s at the height of Brass Monday, when States was new and shiny and just earnest?

[Mister Mass]

16 minutes ago, Darmian said:

Well, I think now that he IS dead we should let him rest, HOWEVER, time travel missions being what they are then he can still play a part and probably should. And I think, if you've read them, Solaverse, I defy any of the StatesHaters to read the novels and not think he's a good and empathetic, and mainly human character, when NOT written by his original creator.

 

Look, it's simple enough here. Superman is created by Siegal & Shuster (and I'm not levelling the hate that JE got at them) but frankly give me Grant Morrison's All Star Superman any day.  Statesman is entirely workable as a character, he just needs to BE a character as opposed to a hat for a dev to wear.

 

Who wouldn't want to see a time travel mish set in the 30s at the height of Brass Monday, when States was new and shiny and just earnest?

This is such a good idea that I am angry at myself for not thinking of it.  Make it so devs!  Thanks Darmian! 👍

Edited October 28, 2020 by Mister Mass

[Darmian]

8 hours ago, Mister Mass said:

This is such a good idea that I am angry at myself for not thinking of it.  Make it so devs!  Thanks Darmian! 👍

I'd like to take absolute credit for that but I have a hazy memory that the OG Devs talked about it and then didn't do it due to having to turn a map instance into the 1930s.  Doesn't mean it couldn't be done but they never did it.

 

What do you need for the 1930s? Period specific autos. NPCs with hats and so on. Period specific police.  More Art Deco buildings? I mean the Nemesis army should look identical. Statesman's 1930s costume is known (whether there is a model for it is another thing though). I need to dig out The Web of Arachnos and read that bit again!

 

I mean if Recluse can send you to the 1960s to aid his overthrow of Marchand then...anyway.

 

(And boy have I made use of those 1960s Arachnos outfits in AE!)

Edited October 29, 2020 by Darmian

[Tsuko]

On 10/28/2020 at 1:21 AM, Vanden said:

 

Seeing Imperious in his Halloween costume made me realize how much I miss the old jerk. The STF and LRSF really should be reverted to their pre-i24 versions, just with a note about how they take place before he died.

omg yes, the RSF is not the RSF anymore without him inside 😕

[Darmian]

8 hours ago, macskull said:

Is there a difference between the STF and MLTF other than the name and the contact that gives it?

You know, memory fails me on that.  Gonna have to research it.

[Darmian]

ACTUALLY...ACTUALLY...how about a mission set on the SET of the in-world Movie of Brass Monday?  It's advertised at the cinemas and all 🙂  Actors playing Statesman and Maiden Justice etc. 

 

Ok, I've wandered!

[ZorkNemesis]

9 minutes ago, Darmian said:

Actors playing Statesman and Maiden Justice etc. 

The return of Big McLargeHuge and Maymay Van Whooters perhaps?

[Darmian]

1 minute ago, ZorkNemesis said:

The return of Big McLargeHuge and Maymay Van Whooters perhaps?

And why not?  🙂  Gotta pop along to a cinema and see what's written on that poster.

 

And elsewhere I demanded that at every update (the once a month thing rather than a new issue/page) the cinema start listing something else other than "Rise of the Council"!

[Darmian]

8 hours ago, Solarverse said:

I suggested this very reason myself and was almost put on trial and tortured for suggesting that was the possible psychological reason behind the hate. Careful...  lol

Found it!
 

 

Sheesh, there's a lot of misery in that thread.

 

I don't want him back myself because I'm also an advocate of dead is dead. But that's not the same as I mentioned above. I don't want him back in the now, but then?  Yeah, more then!

[Heraclea]

I miss Statesman.  He was an irresistable figure to make fun of.  In a contest entry I wrote for the old official AE contest for lowbie content, 'The Great American Skull Fry' (available on my alt account), Statesman gets depowered by tainted water from the Well of the Furies, and has to be rescued from the Skulls by you and Flower Knight. 

[Darmian]

Right, I checked the Brass Monday movie poster outside the cinema in Atlas Park.  No actors mentioned, a lot of guff about produced by etc, the only REAL name on there is Robert Weinberg's (which they spelled incorrectly!) as the author, and he wrote The Web of Arachnos.  So definitely back to the book for me!

Edited October 29, 2020 by Darmian

[Arcanum]

9 hours ago, macskull said:

Is there a difference between the STF and MLTF other than the name and the contact that gives it?

 

There is not, just the contact was replaced with Ms Liberty, but the TF remained the same!