Focused Feedback: PvP Updates

[Faultline]

Multiple posts hidden. This is a Focused Feedback thread; if your posts are comments based on what you assume the changes to be, without checking if your assumptions are correct, they don't belong here.

[Myrmidon]

@Troo, if there is one place to leave feedback to the professionals, PvP discussions are currently it. They have had more Dev interaction in the past couple of weeks than they did the entire time this game was live. Let them work out the kinks, then we can join in. There’s still plenty to do with the rest of I27.

[SpectralPhantom]

Now that my team has had a decent amount of testing out the new maps, (Thank you for new maps btw) I have a few notes on them. Keep in mind I don't intend to make more work for you Faultline, nor do I have much clue how in depth some of these things would be.
- Industrial- Is there any way to maybe block off the walkways so players don't get stuck as much? This has been a common complaint among multiple teams that the map has way too many "sticky" points.
- Liberty town- The new spawn points seem better in that they focus the play in the most sensible area, however the one team on the water's edge is at a disadvantage being very vulnerable. If it was back behind the nearest building it might be just slightly more protected.
- Most new maps- Common concern.. they are too large. Although the battles tend to end up in specific locations, I think we have to remember that these are arenas and not zones. Spawn points that are too far apart can lead to "try hards" playing the map like what happens on Eden and attempting to pull the fight to a certain location, or even worse, closer to their spawn. This leads to more of a fight based on map control than actual strategic 8v8 playstyle. Not the direction we want to go. I guess my question to that regard is, if we could give feedback on where battles will most obviously end up, can we shrink some of the maps to accommodate that, or is that a major overhaul?
- More map size related- The vertical size is way too big. If I can jaunt up 3 times and still not hit the ceiling, what's the point? Why do these need to be so high? Again, these are meant to be arenas, not zones, so lowering the ceiling actually adds an element that could play into jaunt balance. eg. if I jaunt twice and I'm at the top of the map, I can only evade so far vertically. Something to consider right now.

- Final note- The map favorites right now (Skyway and Steel) are loved mostly because of their simplicity. What makes a good map is moderate size with few details. A few protected areas and evasion routes, without a big delay in getting to the fight. I like most of the new maps, I just feel like if they were a bit smaller it would benefit the overall experience. I might be too late on that as I have no idea if resizing means a complete rework, but I just wanted to bring my testing experience here.

[Glacier Peak]

8 hours ago, SpectralPhantom said:

Now that my team has had a decent amount of testing out the new maps, (Thank you for new maps btw) I have a few notes on them. Keep in mind I don't intend to make more work for you Faultline, nor do I have much clue how in depth some of these things would be.
- Industrial- Is there any way to maybe block off the walkways so players don't get stuck as much? This has been a common complaint among multiple teams that the map has way too many "sticky" points.
- Liberty town- The new spawn points seem better in that they focus the play in the most sensible area, however the one team on the water's edge is at a disadvantage being very vulnerable. If it was back behind the nearest building it might be just slightly more protected.
- Most new maps- Common concern.. they are too large. Although the battles tend to end up in specific locations, I think we have to remember that these are arenas and not zones. Spawn points that are too far apart can lead to "try hards" playing the map like what happens on Eden and attempting to pull the fight to a certain location, or even worse, closer to their spawn. This leads to more of a fight based on map control than actual strategic 8v8 playstyle. Not the direction we want to go. I guess my question to that regard is, if we could give feedback on where battles will most obviously end up, can we shrink some of the maps to accommodate that, or is that a major overhaul?
- More map size related- The vertical size is way too big. If I can jaunt up 3 times and still not hit the ceiling, what's the point? Why do these need to be so high? Again, these are meant to be arenas, not zones, so lowering the ceiling actually adds an element that could play into jaunt balance. eg. if I jaunt twice and I'm at the top of the map, I can only evade so far vertically. Something to consider right now.

- Final note- The map favorites right now (Skyway and Steel) are loved mostly because of their simplicity. What makes a good map is moderate size with few details. A few protected areas and evasion routes, without a big delay in getting to the fight. I like most of the new maps, I just feel like if they were a bit smaller it would benefit the overall experience. I might be too late on that as I have no idea if resizing means a complete rework, but I just wanted to bring my testing experience here.

Great feedback @SpectralPhantom, I second the point you made about map size. I didn't provide feedback back on this when I did my initial testing of spawns (mostly because I was solo, but using multiple accounts), but now that I see other players mention it I think it is important to note my concurrence. Large maps certainly force a different 8v8 playstyle (as you point out with the Eden arena map), such that spawn location becomes central to affecting the outcome of match due to the proximity of the ongoing spikes. The larger a map gets, the longer it could potentially take for players to get back in to the fight.

 

Conversely, to any organized PvP teams out there: perhaps these larger maps would benefit teams who use team teleport related powers to assemble/buff? Does Team TP work before the timer ends?

[Taboo]

On 10/31/2020 at 5:24 PM, Ms Deadly said:

Ja I agree to an extent, some changes are good like the no incarnates except alpha only. Some feel a bit weird though like the no temps and acco changes. Zoners are usually more casual players, so idk if forced arena rules is best way to approach it or else why aren't they in the arena now? Though Most zoners don't seem to use forums either so I don't think will hear their opinion till changes go live. I just don't want to take away from their experience to better fit the arena people who never zone any who. I personally think getting rid of the base macro and incarnates would be best for now. Maybe add more changes in the future. 

Yep.

There will be a initial uproar and then a drip drip drip of complaints as some zones careen further from the majority of the game.

You have a good point, these changes could have been made to arena or maybe one zone. Then let players buy in.

It looks like little effort has gone into assisting casual players or non pvpers in-game know what's happening or what's different entering a pvp zone.

Not all the changes are horrific but it is not polished and the singular focus of the changes is so obvious. Those that say different protest too much.

 

Why didn't these changes get received the way Titan Weapon changes did?

Edited November 19, 2020 by Taboo

[macskull]

27 minutes ago, Taboo said:

Yep.

There will be a initial uproar and then a drip drip drip of complaints as some zones careen further from the majority of the game.

You have a good point, these changes could have been made to arena or maybe one zone. Then let players buy in.

It looks like little effort has gone into assisting casual players or non pvpers in-game know what's happening or what's different entering a pvp zone.

Not all the changes are horrific but it is not polished and the singular focus of the changes is so obvious. Those that say different protest too much.

 

Why didn't these changes get received the way Titan Weapon changes did?

1. There will probably be some complaints when the changes go live though from what I've seen many of the players who frequent PvP zones are already aware of the impending changes and don't really care. In all fairness, the players who would stop playing once all these changes go live are the players who have been making zone PvP not fun for anybody.
2. The developers have already indicated a willingness to work with the PvP community to make further tweaks and adjustments so if it turns out these changes actually do have a negative impact on zone population they can be rolled back. I don't see that happening though.
3. To be entirely fair, there is virtually no in-game documentation on the powers differences between PvE and PvP and much of what does exist has been outdated since Issue 13 dropped twelve years ago. Players who are legitimately interested in PvP beyond a passing "huh what's this" will ask the questions. Whenever a new patch is released the GMOTD popup contains a link to the patch notes or at the very least informs players of a patch - if people aren't bothering to read those patch notes it's hardly anyone else's fault.
4. The changes are still in flux and there's going to be further tweaking down the line. I don't know what "singular focus" you are referring to but the intent of the changes specifically dealing with incarnate powers and temporary powers is to make zone PvP more accessible and balanced.

Story time: a couple years ago, before Homecoming existed, there was a small push on the server that preceded Homecoming to disable incarnate powers in Recluse's Victory. At the time it was decided to leave things alone so players who wanted an "anything goes" PvP experience could have it. Fast forward to now and we've seen how an "anything goes" PvP zone just turns it into a mess. Yeah, it's probably fun for the players whose idea of PvP is "I am never going to die to anything ever" but for everyone else it's kind of a shitshow. These changes aren't going to entirely fix things like a player with a team of buffbots in their base or a player leaving the zone every 30 seconds to get a new tray of T3 green inspirations, but at least they will help.

 

It does seem as though the majority of the negative feedback in this thread and others like it is coming from either PvEers or the very small number of PvPers who think it's okay for a Blaster to be running around with T4 Incan and a tray of T3 greens and base TP the second anyone looks at them funny.

[Taboo]

@macskull That's a reasonable post. THX

 

It seems to be a bit reckless to take unfinished changes to zones used by more than the group they are intended for.

 

If below was addressed and the changes were a reasonable step in a direction.. It just wreaks of 'this is our only chance to get OUR changes'.

33 minutes ago, macskull said:

To be entirely fair, there is virtually no in-game documentation on the powers differences between PvE and PvP and much of what does exist has been outdated since Issue 13 dropped twelve years ago.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Taboo

[Gibson99]

On 11/13/2020 at 10:33 PM, Iron Alex said:

I with a lot of people on this forum saying incarnates are not the problem. This change is more geared to the ones who do more arena, because these changes do follow a lot of arena rules. However the changes are not as game changing as i13, which destroyed pvp especially zones. 

 

As someone who actively try to stay away from all fotm build and usually pvping with things you normally dont see in pvp (ie peacebringer ect), i will adapt.. however if you really want to fix pvp.. reduce the resistance on blaster, place them back to 1600 hp cap..  and increase all the melee dmg powers except Assassin strike..

 

right now the problem is everyone just running a blaster build and trying to shoot out 1200 points of dmg in 6 sec and repeat, and melee not being able to do anything about.. except picking up some range attacks and hoping to get a heavy hitter off while the "squishy" stop moving..

 

the other thing to do is place back slow movement.. and imho as someone who loves using melee in pvp that implementation sucked bad.. so i much rather squishes being squishes and all melee dmg raising to even the playing field. 

I'm with you Alex. The zone changes are made by the arena players for the arena players. They are dishonest when they say, "We are doing it for the noobs!"  I'm not saying the changes are for better or for worse. I'm just pointing out the gaslighting. 

 

I'm with you on the blaster nonsense and would love to see slows and -recharge resurface.

 

Personally, I feel Jaunt just adds to the zone PvP nonsense. It's just an escape tool when toons get caught in a pool or in a sticky situation. 

 

 

[macskull]

25 minutes ago, Taboo said:

It seems to be a bit reckless to take unfinished changes to zones used by more than the group they are intended for.

What do you consider to be "unfinished" about them? The changes have been tested quite a bit over the last few weeks and there have been very few complaints.

[Gibson99]

On 11/14/2020 at 7:08 AM, M3z said:

I would say raise max movespeed on melee by 10-20% (instead of 92 maybe they move 105-110 or something) and maybe give them 2-3 ft more base range on their attack(this is just to help with the low tickrate of the server and ping more than anything).

More speed. More Jaunt! Nah. I say bring back slows. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Gibson99

[Gibson99]

5 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

 

Maybe reread this thread? haha

A lot of this thread is talking about how to help the new or casual PvP player experience. 

I just want honesty. The KB clique should admit, "We believe our way of PvP is better than the current zone experience and have petitioned the devs to implement certain changes that will enhance your PvP experience. And while we're at it, we're going to give ourselves nine new arena maps. You can thank us later!" 

I'm fine with that. Outward confidence in one's knowledge and ability is admirable.  

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Gibson99

[M3z]

1 hour ago, Gibson99 said:

More speed. More Jaunt! Nah. I say bring back slows. 

You can do both. What if you bring back only slows with no movement speed buff to melee, does that help a set like broadsword or fire melee or any set that don't have access to slows? You'd have to pick armor set that has access to slows, which are not that great (ice armor etc).

 

Also you are against more movespeed in a game whos main selling point is the movement speed?

Edited November 19, 2020 by M3z

[Gibson99]

44 minutes ago, M3z said:

You can do both. What if you bring back only slows with no movement speed buff to melee, does that help a set like broadsword or fire melee or any set that don't have access to slows? You'd have to pick armor set that has access to slows, which are not that great (ice armor etc).

 

Also you are against more movespeed in a game whos main selling point is the movement speed?

I'm against the lack of slows and -recharge.

As for the "what if you bring back only slows with no movement speed buff to melee", apparently it won't help the debuffing toon that's for sure.

Do we have to coddle to every build vulnerabilities or do we want players zipping and jaunting all over the zone like fireflies?

I don't have an answer for now. we'd have to see how it goes first and see how players adapt. 

[GM Tempest]

Something I could like to note to those discussing the changes here - balancing in an MMO is an eternal struggle, no matter how long you have to do it there's always more to work on, always more to do better.

 

While we do our best to make changes and balance adjustments to enhance the game and further enjoyment for players both new and old, sometimes that means we may make changes that you personally think are not good -- and that's okay. If you don't like the changes we make, that's what these feedback forums are for, to let us know what you think and to offer suggestions and critique! Our dev team does read these things, and takes into account what you say and what you think should be done differently.

 

This game, ultimately, is for you. We enjoy the heck out of it, sure, but a game like this is built on it's community - you! As such we're going to strive to do our best for you, our players.

 

So while we make adjustments and tweaks and ask for feedback, I hope you can understand that what we're doing is not always going to be exactly what every individual person would want - CoH is many things to many people and even in the PvP-verse there are many different opinions on what should happen! We're doing our best to make what we do as good as it can be, but there's always room to improve, and that's why we - and our fantastic dev team - keep at it!

[macskull]

4 hours ago, Gibson99 said:

Maybe reread this thread? haha

A lot of this thread is talking about how to help the new or casual PvP player experience. 

I just want honesty. The KB clique should admit, "We believe our way of PvP is better than the current zone experience and have petitioned the devs to implement certain changes that will enhance your PvP experience. And while we're at it, we're going to give ourselves nine new arena maps. You can thank us later!" 

I'm fine with that. Outward confidence in one's knowledge and ability is admirable.  

It is possible for changes to both be better for the majority of PvPers and for new or casual players. Not everyone's going to win here, but the vast majority of the active PvP playerbase will. You also seem to be approaching this from the misguided viewpoint of "well the PvPers are just making all these changes themselves." No, Faultline dropped me a DM out of the blue asking about my thoughts on a new lower-level PvP zone and new arena map so I simply pointed him to the discussions the PvP community has been having for the last year and a half on exactly those sorts of things. Some of the changes being implemented with I27 are asks the PvP community has had since before I13.

3 hours ago, Gibson99 said:

I'm against the lack of slows and -recharge.

As for the "what if you bring back only slows with no movement speed buff to melee", apparently it won't help the debuffing toon that's for sure.

Do we have to coddle to every build vulnerabilities or do we want players zipping and jaunting all over the zone like fireflies?

I don't have an answer for now. we'd have to see how it goes first and see how players adapt. 

-Recharge as a mechanic is more or less unchanged from pre-I13. Defenders probably got hit the hardest by the I13 changes in this respect though, since Defender debuffs are no longer unresisted. It is true -rech is probably overall less effective than it was before but that has more to do with the damage output of most characters (and the relative access to slow resist IO bonuses) than it does any mechanics changes affecting -rech. Movement slows, on the other hand... it was definitely not fun to be slowed to a crawl by one or two powers but I don't really think movement slows should have been gutted the way they did. There's probably a good medium between pre-I13 and now out there.

[Gibson99]

3 hours ago, macskull said:

It is true -rech is probably overall less effective than it was before but that has more to do with the damage output of most characters (and the relative access to slow resist IO bonuses) than it does any mechanics changes affecting -rech. Movement slows, on the other hand... it was definitely not fun to be slowed to a crawl by one or two powers but I don't really think movement slows should have been gutted the way they did. There's probably a good medium between pre-I13 and now out there.

"It is true -recharge is probably less effective." haha Probably Less Effective! 

I agree that it is not fun to be slowed to a crawl. It is AWESOME! 

Today, toons are defeated by one or two powers, so I think it's completely fair for toons to be slowed to a crawl. If you're worried about getting slowed, there are methods of survival for your slowed toons. They can teleport away, Jaunt away, Hibernate, Phase or choose to stay put and fight it out. 

There are good times for all when we can get slowed to a crawl. Trust me. You'll love it!

Trying make the zones one giant safe space is boring. 

 

 

[Jimmy]

Release Candidate 2 - November 21st, 2020

 

PvP Updates

Miscellaneous PvP Changes

• Kicking a player from team during an Arena match now requires confirmation
• Quitting an Arena team (via the quit button, /leaveteam or the Exit Map button) now requires confirmation
• Fixed UI scaling for the "Score" button, and made it toggle the results window
• Disabled the Quit button in Classic UI while on an Arena map
• The arena map list is now sorted alphabetically
• Fixed the minimap for Cage Match, Factory, Stadium, Atlas Park, Steel Canyon and Skyway City

New PvP Accolades

• Arena vendors now sell the following PvP-only fakkolades (fake knockoff accolades) for 10,000 influence each:
  •  Veteran
    • Combined the four +HP / +End accolades
  •  Indestructible
    • Combines Eye of the Magus / Demonic Aura and Elusive Mind
  •  Supercharger
    • Copy of Geas of the Kind Ones / Force of Nature
  •  Mind Games
    • Copy of Vanguard Medal / Megalomaniac
  •  Nullifier
    • Copy of Crey CBX-9 Pistol / Stolen Immobilizer Ray
  •  Justice
    • Copy of Call to Justice, the Hero alignment power, shares a cooldown with Rampage
  •  Rampage
    • Copy of Frenzy, the Villain alignment power, shares a cooldown with Justice
• Using a normal accolade will put the non-PvP version of it on cooldown (and vice-versa)
• These can be deleted when you no longer want them
• Normal accolade & alignment powers are now disabled in the Arena and in PvP zones

PvP Zone Vendors (Bloody Bay, Siren's Call, Warburg, Recluse's Victory)

• Added vendors selling the Arena temporary powers (which are now usable in PvP zones)
  • The Siren's Call vendor still requires the zone event to unlock

PvP Zone Missions (Bloody Bay, Siren's Call)

• Missions in Bloody Bay and Siren's Call are no longer limited to level 25 / 35 and can now be run all the way to level 50
  • Completing any door mission rewards the Veteran power
  • Completing any Longbow door mission rewards the Justice power
  • Completing any Arachnos door mission rewards the Rampage power
  • Completing the destroy / save outpost mission rewards the Indestructible power
  • Completing the plant / defuse bomb mission rewards the Supercharger power
  • Completing the kidnap / rescue officer mission rewards the Mind Games power
  • Completing the destroy / recover technology mission rewards the Nullifier power

Recluse's Victory

• Support AVs from the zone event now spawn at level 52 instead of level 54
• Remove some references to Statesman (RIP)

Free Fire Zone (PvP) Helicopter Line

• All helicopters to and from PvP zones are now connected (including new helicopters in Siren's Call near the hero hospital and in Peregrine Island near the arena)
• You can also use it to travel between the connected PVE zones, but only those that match your current alignment
  • Rogues and Vigilantes can now use the Free Fire Zone Transports to travel between PVE zones, but not from a PVP zone to a PVE zone of the opposite alignment

New Arena Map: Liberty Town (2-32 players)

• A new arena map using an area from Founder's Falls
• Minimap:

Spoiler

 

New Arena Map: Boomtown (2-16 players)

• A new arena map using the construction site area of Boomtown
• Minimap:

Spoiler

 

New Arena Map: Ouroboros (2-16 players)

• A new arena map featuring the destroyed version of Ouroboros
• Minimap:

Spoiler

 

New Arena Map: Last Bastion (2-16 players)

• A new arena map set in a mostly-destroyed Praetoria
• Minimap:

Spoiler

 

New Arena Map: Praetorian Office (2-10 players)

• A new arena map set inside a Praetorian Office
• Minimap:

Spoiler

 

 New Arena Map: Industrial (2-16 players)

• A new arena map set in an Industrial area
• The old Industrial map is now named Factory
• Minimap:

Spoiler

 

 New Arena Map: Council Earth (2-16 players)

• A new arena map set on the Council Earth
• Minimap:

Spoiler

 

 New Arena Map: Luna Square (2-16 players)

• A new arena map set in a generic outdoor city area
• Minimap:

Spoiler

 

  New Arena Map: Dam Interior (2-10 players)

• A new arena map set inside the Overbrook (Faultline) Dam
• Minimap:

Spoiler

 

Powers Disabled in PvP

• All Incarnate powers apart from the Alpha slot are now disabled in Recluse's Victory
• PvP zones now obey the same rules as the arena when it comes to banning powers
  • This means that anything previously disabled in the Arena will now be disabled in PvP zones
  • Arena temporary powers now work in PvP zones
  • PVP Zones now disable powers using an auto power granted on zone entry instead of a critter with a zonewide power (this makes it instant)
• The following powers are now disabled in the Arena and in PvP zones:
  • Most Mayhem / Safeguard powers
  • Empowerment Station buffs crafted in bases
  • Most Day Job powers
  • Cathedral of Pain buffs
  • Various prestige / temporary powers
• Complete list of disabled powers:

Spoiler

• Increase_Recovery (from Mayhem/Safeguard)
• Mayhem_Increase_Movement_Speed
• Mayhem_Increase_Endurance
• Mayhem_Increase_Health
• Mayhem_Increase_Regeneration
• prestige_InspirationGrant (Inner Inspiration)
• Cryonite_Armor
• Wedding_Band
• Wedding_Band_FB
• Mayhem_Cryonite_Armor
• Mayhem_Store_Kinetic_Shield
• Vanguard_Psionic_Shield
• Invention_Kinetic_Dampener
• Alt_LP_Kinetic_Dampener
• Alt_Defense_Amplifier_1_hour
• Alt_Defense_Amplifier_4_hour
• Alt_Defense_Amplifier_8_hour
• Alt_Offense_Amplifier_1_hour
• Alt_Offense_Amplifier_4_hour
• Alt_Offense_Amplifier_8_hour
• Alt_Survival_Amplifier_1_hour
• Alt_Survival_Amplifier_4_hour
• Alt_Survival_Amplifier_8_hour
• Alt_Frosty_Aegis
• Day_Job_Movement_Increase_Lesser
• Day_Job_Movement_Increase_Greater
• Pilot_Lesser
• Pilot_Greater
• Day_Job_Increase_Regeneration_Lesser
• Day_Job_Increase_Regeneration_Greater
• Day_Job_Increase_Endurance_Lesser
• Day_Job_Increase_Endurance_Greater
• Day_Job_Increase_Recovery_Lesser
• Day_Job_Increase_Recovery_Greater
• Day_Job_Damage_Resistance_Lesser
• Day_Job_Damage_Resistance_Greater
• Day_Job_Psionic_Resistance_Lesser
• Day_Job_Psionic_Resistance_Greater
• Day_Job_ColdNegative_Resistance_Lesser
• Day_Job_ColdNegative_Resistance_Greater
• Day_Job_DPS_Buff_Lesser
• Day_Job_DPS_Buff_Greater
• Day_Job_Improved_Recharge_Time_Lesser
• Day_Job_Improved_Recharge_Time_Greater
• Combat_Shield
• Increase_Attack_Speed (Empowerment Station)
• Increase_Flight_Speed
• Increase_Jump_Speed
• Increase_Run_Speed
• Increase_Perception
• Grant_Invisibility
• Smashing_Resistance
• Lethal_Resistance
• Cold_Resistance
• Fire_Resistance
• Energy_Resistance
• Negative_Energy_Resistance
• Toxic_Resistance
• Psionic_Resistance
• Endurance_Drain_Resistance
• Slow_Resistance
• Knockback_Protection
• Knockback_Increase
• Confusion_Resistance
• Fear_Resistance
• Disorient_Resistance
• Hold_Resistance
• Immobilize_Resistance
• Sleep_Resistance
• Arachnos_Power_Shield
• I22_MissionReward_BoonSunXiong
• The_Perfect_Eye
• The_True_Furnace
• Heart_of_a_Storm_Elemental
• Anger_Monument
• Crystal_of_Resilience
• The_Atlas_Medallion
• Super_Patriot
• Freedom_Phalanx_Reserve
• Task_Force_Commander
• Portal_Jockey
• Crey_CBX-9_Pistol
• Eye_of_the_Magus
• Vanguard_Medal
• Geas_of_the_Kind_Ones
• Marshall
• High_Pain_Threshold
• Born_In_Battle
• Stolen_Immobilizer_Ray
• Demonic_Aura
• Megalomaniac
• Invader
• Force_of_Nature
• Iron_Man
• RIWE_Accolade_Power
• GRHeroAlignmentPower
• GRVigilanteAlignmentPower
• GRRogueAlignmentPower
• GRVillainAlignmentPower
• Invention_Recovery_Serum
• Alt_LP_Recovery_Serum
• Alt_Frost_Bite_Granter
• Alt_Frost_Bite
• Alt_Winter_Ward
• Flames_of_Prometheus

 

Other PvP Powers Changes

• Trick Arrow
  • See the Trick Arrow thread
• Fast Snipes
  • No longer grant a 50% range buff in PvP
• Empathy / Pain Domination
  • Absorb Pain: -Heal / -Regeneration reduced to 50% in PvP
  • Share Pain: -Heal / -Regeneration reduced to 50% in PvP
• Temporary Powers
  • Envenomed Dagger's regeneration debuff is now Scale 1.0 non-stackable when used against players
• -Jump Adjustments

Several adjustments to -jump powers in PvP have been made:

Spoiler

The following powers have been set to Scale -1 Melee_Jump in PVP:

• Mastermind_Pets.Spec_Ops.Web_Grenade
• Villain_Pets.Arachnobot_Blaster.Web
• Villain_Pets.Toxic_Tarantula.Web

The following powers have been set to Scale -1.5 Melee_Jump in PVP:

• Blaster_Support.Gadgets.Web_Grenade
• Blaster_Support.Tactical_Arrow.Electrified_Net_Arrow
• Epic.Blaster_Mace_Mastery.Web_Envelope
• Epic.Blaster_Mace_Mastery.Web_Cocoon
• Epic.Brute_Mace_Mastery.Web_Envelope
• Epic.Corruptor_Mace_Mastery.Web_Envelope
• Epic.Corruptor_Mace_Mastery.Web_Cocoon
• Epic.Mastermind_Mace_Mastery.Web_Envelope
• Epic.Mastermind_Mace_Mastery.Web_Cocoon
• Epic.Sentinel_Mace_Mastery.Web_Envelope
• Epic.Sentinel_Mace_Mastery.Web_Cocoon
• Epic.Stalker_Mace_Mastery.Web_Cocoon
• Epic.Weapon_Mastery.Web_Grenade
• Epic.Weapon_Mastery_Stalker.Web_Grenade

The following powers have been set to Scale -2 Melee_Jump in PVP:

• Epic.VEAT_Mace_Mastery.Web_Envelope

The following powers have been set to Scale -2.5 Melee_Jump in PVP:

• Controller_Buff.Trick_Arrow.Entangling_Arrow
• Corruptor_Buff.Trick_Arrow.Entangling_Arrow
• Defender_Buff.Trick_Arrow.Entangling_Arrow
• Mastermind_Buff.Trick_Arrow.Entangling_Arrow
• Pets.StickyArrow_Blaster.StickyArrow
• Redirects.Trick_Arrow.GlueArrow

The following powers now do direct -Jump instead of -Enhancement(Jump) in PVP:

• Blaster_Support.Time_Manipulation.Time_Wall
• Controller_Buff.Kinetics.Siphon_Speed
• Corruptor_Buff.Kinetics.Siphon_Speed
• Defender_Buff.Kinetics.Siphon_Speed
• Mastermind_Buff.Kinetics.Siphon_Speed
• Controller_Buff.Poison.Neurotoxic_Breath
• Corruptor_Buff.Poison.Neurotoxic_Breath
• Defender_Buff.Poison.Neurotoxic_Breath
• Mastermind_Buff.Poison.Neurotoxic_Breath
• Boosts.Attuned_Winters_Bite_F.Attuned_Winters_Bite_F
• Boosts.Superior_Attuned_Winters_Bite_F.Superior_Attuned_Winters_Bite_F

The following power had its -Enhancement(Jump) reduced to 18s in PVP:

• Blaster_Support.Ice_Manipulation.Shiver

 

[golstat2003]

On 11/19/2020 at 11:04 PM, Gibson99 said:

"It is true -recharge is probably less effective." haha Probably Less Effective! 

I agree that it is not fun to be slowed to a crawl. It is AWESOME! 

Today, toons are defeated by one or two powers, so I think it's completely fair for toons to be slowed to a crawl. If you're worried about getting slowed, there are methods of survival for your slowed toons. They can teleport away, Jaunt away, Hibernate, Phase or choose to stay put and fight it out. 

There are good times for all when we can get slowed to a crawl. Trust me. You'll love it!

Trying make the zones one giant safe space is boring. 

 

 

I don't find slows to be fun in PVE or PVP in most games I play.

[RageusQuitus2]

I didnt see mention of taunt or provoke.  Both powers banned in arena.  Anychance those get tweaked.  Seems a pretty broken power that consistently gets banned in arena.  It would be nice to play a brute or tanker.

[reib]

13 minutes ago, RageusQuitus2 said:

I didnt see mention of taunt or provoke.  Both powers banned in arena.  Anychance those get tweaked.  Seems a pretty broken power that consistently gets banned in arena.  It would be nice to play a brute or tanker.

Yes please...some chance that the Taunt has shortened duration or some form of suppression or that It may be missing?

Edited November 23, 2020 by reib

[America's Angel]

@RageusQuitus2 @reib - I think there's plans to look at Taunt. (And a bunch of other stuff - Faultline has said he's open to "meta experiments" for us to test stuff out on the beta server.). But this will happen after Issue 27 Page 1. (Which should hopefully be going live tomorrow!)

 

If you're curious about future PVP changes, you can see some of the planned stuff here: https://trello.com/b/gDUzLMOH/pvp-stuff I've also been compiling a list of things there seems to be consensus to look at (Including taunt!) I know GM Smol, CR Banana Man, and Alou have been, too.

 

I'm not sure of the exact timeframe for further PVP changes. At a guess...at worst it'll be Issue 27 Page 2, at best it'll be small updates between now and then. Ultimately, it comes down to the mood/interest of the dev team (they're volunteers doing this in their spare time as a passion project, remember). I imagine they're going to be pretty exhausted and want some chill time after Issue 27 Page 1 launches, though.

 

For now, the main thing the devs are looking for in this thread is if you're able to break any of the stuff in the patch notes / if anything in the patch notes is wrong. I've tested most of the above stuff on the beta server. It all seems to be working as intended. (Glue Arrow is going to be tweaked at some point to allow the -jump to last for 30s after leaving the patch, and Absorb/Share Pain doing -50% for x seconds will likely be tweaked further after it's playtested more on live. But these two things are likely to happen post-release, and everything else in the patch notes seems to be working as intended.)

Edited November 23, 2020 by America's Angel

[Aberrant]

With the changes to Siren's Call, the stores for Heroes and Villains appear to be identical now (maybe this was a I25 change?). Once open they sell the Fakkolades, and the following:

• Jaunt Initializer
• Low-G Pack
• Raptor Pack
• Stealth Suit
• Stun Grenade
• Web Grenade

The same as any other PVP or Arena store, even after winning the zone twice. Is this working as intended? Does this mean there's no longer a way to get the following previously Siren's Call exclusive temporary PVP powers, made available by winning control of the zone twice?

• Emp Glove

Heroes

• Cryonite Armor
• IR Goggles

Villains

• Arachnos Mace
• Kinetic Shield
• Smoke Bomb
• Venom Grenades

Or am I missing something? Perhaps they were removed in a previous PvP patch in I25? So in effect, there's no actual advantage to winning the zone battle at all that I can see, as you're able to get the store from any other pvp zone, and it's better to run the instanced missions to bestow buffs and debuffs than to engage with the Hotspots at all. Currently as far as I can tell Siren's Call now has no Temporary Power benefit to engaging with the zone's mechanics, whereas Warburg gives you Nukes, Bloody Bay gives you Shivans, and RV gives you a Heavy.

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Aberrant