Smaller comments

[Troo]

First, what a huge undertaking. Folks really do appreciate the effort.

 

Second, some smaller comments relating to inconsistencies in text, function and/or details are being swept up due to the heavy moderation.

Example:

PvP Accolades clearly say Temporary on the description screen even though they are not.

Seems minor, but this caused some confusion for at least myself (who hasn't been looking at it for months)

 

Question: Where should smaller specific comments go if not the links below?

 

Please use these feedback threads to discuss the changes in this build:

• Focused Feedback: The Graveyard Shift (Hero Story Arc, Level 20-29)
• Focused Feedback: The Freakish Lab of Dr. Vahzilok (Villain Story Arc, Level 30-39)
• Focused Feedback: Asymmetrical Shoulders
• Focused Feedback: Stance Selection
• Focused Feedback: Power Customisation Update
• Focused Feedback: Sonic Manipulation
• Focused Feedback: Energy Melee Revamp
• Focused Feedback: Energy Melee for Scrappers
• Focused Feedback: Titan Weapons Revamp
• Focused Feedback: Trick Arrow Revamp
• Focused Feedback: Teleportation Pool Revamp
• Focused Feedback: Blaster Secondary Revamp
• Focused Feedback: Other Powers Changes
• Focused Feedback: Travel Updates: Base Teleportation, Long Range Teleporter Accolade, Special TP Powers
• Focused Feedback: Enhancements
• Focused Feedback: Badges
• Focused Feedback: PvP Updates
• Focused Feedback: Enhanced Gamepad Support, /interact and other /commands
• Focused Feedback: Map Changes
• General Feedback: Issue 27, Page 1

Please note that Focused Feedback threads are heavily moderated to ensure they remain on topic.

• Any off-topic posts in these threads will be removed without warning.
• The thread will be locked when no more feedback is required, but you are more than welcome to continue the discussion in a new thread.

[siolfir]

On 11/17/2020 at 5:02 PM, Troo said:

First, what a huge undertaking. Folks really do appreciate the effort.

 

Second, some smaller comments relating to inconsistencies in text, function and/or details are being swept up due to the heavy moderation.

Example:

PvP Accolades clearly say Temporary on the description screen even though they are not.

Seems minor, but this caused some confusion for at least myself (who hasn't been looking at it for months)

 

Question: Where should smaller specific comments go if not the links below?

Why would it not not go into General Feedback?

 

I mean in the very first post it states that its purpose is "to discuss any changes not covered by any of the focused feedback threads."

 

If not there, then file a beta bug report for text errors (such as the "Temporary" PVP Accolades).

[Troo]

Beta bugs is a good idea.

 

If small items are getting removed from the related focused feedback topic, they'd likely get removed from the beta general discussion per the note below.

 

[macskull]

To be entirely fair, the example in the OP about PvP accolades being temp powers would have been fine to post in the PvP feedback thread if that's what the meat of the posts had been, instead of what they actually were.

 

Also, for what it's worth the temporary powers list also includes things like Ouroboros Portal and alignment powers which are decidedly not temporary powers. The reason the PvP accolades are listed under temporary powers is because it puts them in the same category as the other arena-purchasable powers (raptor pack, jump jet, stun grenade, stealth suit, web grenade) which makes it easier to disable them when not in a PvP environment.

[Troo]

@macskull I get the reason for using the temporary powers list. The stand alone post on the topic had quoted the notes, not another player, and included in-game screenshots.

Yes there was a lot of back and forth and it makes sense that there was cleanup done. It has happened a bunch. I'm not bitter about it, just asking where those could be put so it could be addressed.

 

In that particular case, Bopper or GB had posted how to fix what was a confusing piece of text on the description popup. I think that might have been lost as well.

[Bopper]

7 minutes ago, Troo said:

@macskull I get the reason for using the temporary powers list. The stand alone post on the topic had quoted the notes, not another player, and included in-game screenshots.

Yes there was a lot of back and forth and it makes sense that there was cleanup done. It has happened a bunch. I'm not bitter about it, just asking where those could be put so it could be addressed.

 

In that particular case, Bopper or GB had posted how to fix what was a confusing piece of text on the description popup. I think that might have been lost as well.

Beta Bug Report. Then the devs can determine whether or not it is a bug and go from there. It sounds like it's not a bug and won't change, but for stuff like that, Bug Report wouldve been fine to report it in.

[Faultline]

Not a bug, won't change. They can be deleted whenever the player chooses to, therefore they belong in the Temporary Powers category.

[Troo]

  

14 hours ago, Faultline said:

Not a bug, won't change. They can be deleted whenever the player chooses to, therefore they belong in the Temporary Powers category.

No one is saying the functionality is bugged.

 

In-game labels say 'Temporary Powers' when actually they don't expire, they don't disappear when exiting the zone, or logging out, there is no timer, or number of uses.

 

There is nothing else in-game to say they are NOT temporary.

 

 

How is someone who hasn't been staring at the changes for months supposed to know? Even the beta notes are weak at describing if a player will need to purchase each time they want them in PvP.

 

There are at least a handful of similar items just in the one set of changes. (game breaking? no)

 

Why does reporting these feel like an argument or something that has to be proven otherwise there is a Dev saying it's not true when clearly it is? That is just wrong.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Troo

[Faultline]

Now look at the Ouroboros portal.

 

Temporary Powers that have a set number of charges or a timer until expiration say so when right-clicked from the Powers window to look at their info. Powers that don't list that information don't expire on their own. This has always been the case.

 

You are the one assuming a built-in expiration when none is listed. This is not a problem with the power.

[Troo]

/em doublefacepalm

 

Temporary powers are powers that a hero or villain may only use for a short time. The three main types of temporary powers are powers that last for a designated amount of time, a designated amount of uses, or until a specific action is accomplished.

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Temporary_Powers

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Troo

[Faultline]

18 minutes ago, Troo said:

/em doublefacepalm

 

Temporary powers are powers that a hero or villain may only use for a short time. The three main types of temporary powers are powers that last for a designated amount of time, a designated amount of uses, or until a specific action is accomplished.

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Temporary_Powers

 

The specific action being to right click on it to delete it. Mind you, any player can edit that page to say that all Temporary Powers last exactly 30 minutes and summon a flying boombox for the entire duration, and the dev team won't be required to implement that. Wikis aren't official documentation.

[Aberrant]

On that note, since the Ouro portal can't ever run out of charges/expire/be deleted I feel it should be moved to Accolade powers (ignoring the fact that Entrusted with the Secret isn't technically an Accolade 😛).

Edited November 20, 2020 by Aberrant

[Lines]

You're picking an odd hill to die on, Troo.

 

Maybe a something you might propose for the suggestion forum might be to further categorise and organise temporary powers? There's a large amount of variation in the definition of a temporary power, so maybe there's mileage in actually sorting them out? Or having new interface to help keep powers organised?

But I dunno if this pertains to this patch - that's a more fundamental thing to address.

[Faultline]

I can tell you already that the answer to splitting Temporary Powers into multiple categories will be no. There's no way to change the category of a power while keeping it with the same state on the player. The old power needs to be revoked and a new one granted to the player, and that trick won't transfer time remaining or charges left.

[Faultline]

8 minutes ago, Aberrant said:

On that note, since the Ouro portal can't ever run out of charges/expire/be deleted I feel it should be moved to Accolade powers (ignoring the fact that Entrusted with the Secret isn't technically an Accolade 😛).

The reason Ouroboros Portal is in the Temporary Powers category is because originally it was two powers, one for heroes and one for villains, which sent you to a faction-specific version of Ouroboros. The current co-op Ouroboros is the hero version, and everyone is keeping the Hero version of the portal rather than it revoking on side switch. We may move it to Accolades to fit its new status better, since it can't be revoked by any means now.

[Aberrant]

Of course there were two versions of the power -_-

[Troo]

20 hours ago, Lines said:

You're picking an odd hill to die on, Troo.

 

Maybe a something you might propose for the suggestion forum might be to further categorise and organise temporary powers? There's a large amount of variation in the definition of a temporary power, so maybe there's mileage in actually sorting them out? Or having new interface to help keep powers organised?

But I dunno if this pertains to this patch - that's a more fundamental thing to address.

Oh, I totally regret this topic.

 

It's a TEXT change, that's it.

 

I'm baffled how it's a big deal. I kept hoping for a "oh I see" moment. I'll let all of these go and they can drop it on live and get picked apart there.

 

I would have preferred to have originally just posting it in the other thread and that being it.

 

Note: Some of the changes have descriptions and such that are insufficient or misleading. (you just stated you missed something) I pointed some of these out and the posts got deleted. This thread was just to ask where they should go if not there.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Troo

[Faultline]

It's not a text change. It's a power category change.

[Bopper]

15 minutes ago, Troo said:

It's a TEXT change, that's it.

It's not. The Temporary Powers that you reference is equivalent to a Powerset Name. For example, you might look up the power Rend Armor, and it will show you the text Titan Weapons because that is the name of the powerset the power belongs in.

 

In this case, the power belongs to the "powerset" called Temporary Powers. You can't change that text because it is shared by every other power that also belongs to the "powerset" called Temporary Powers. If you changed the text of Titan Weapons for Rend Armor, it would also change the text for Crushing Blow as they share the same powerset.

[Troo]

It's a display label, not a key value... err I mean okay.

[Bopper]

10 minutes ago, Troo said:

It's a display label, not a key value... err I mean okay.

That label is pulled from a category. Changing the name of the category changes it for all powers within the category.

[siolfir]

On 11/18/2020 at 8:07 PM, siolfir said:

If not there, then file a beta bug report for text errors (such as the "Temporary" PVP Accolades).

 

15 hours ago, Faultline said:

Not a bug, won't change. They can be deleted whenever the player chooses to, therefore they belong in the Temporary Powers category.

I missed that you could delete them and assumed they would show up under Accolade Powers as the clicks share cooldowns with the PvE Accolades and the auto powers replace several others. Sorry for inadvertently encouraging the mess this thread has become by suggesting a possible bug. I thought I recalled a post in the PvP feedback stating they were listed as temp powers for consistency with the vendor, so thought that they might have been miscategorized.

 

@Troo: to echo others this seems a strange thing to be obstinate on, and changing the label isn't going to happen because as has been mentioned that's the name of the powerset the powers belong to. If you change it for one you change it for all of them. Since they can be deleted, they are temporary.

[Nerio72]