Focused Feedback: Sonic Manipulation

[Jimmy]

This is a Focused Feedback Thread

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New Blaster Secondary: Sonic Manipulation

Sonic Manipulation lets you control sonic forces to manipulate your foes, inflict damage and protect yourself.

 

Powers

•  T1: Sonic Thrust (Melee, Minor DMG(Smash/Energy), Foe Knockback)
  • A focused attack of intense sonic power that violently sends a nearby foe flying. Deals minimal damage, but can be very effective. Recharge: Fast
•  T2: Strident Echo (Melee, Moderate DMG(Smashing/Energy), chance for Hold)
  • Strident Echo deals minor damage over time. It has a low chance of causing a migraine, leaving the target shaking in pain and helpless. Recharge: Slow
  •  DoT has been accelerated to deliver its damage in 2.1s instead of 5.1s
•  T3: Echo Chamber (Ranged, Minor DMG(Energy), Foe Hold)
  • Encases the target in a field of sonic waves, dealing energy damage and holding them in place. Recharge: Slow
•  T4: Sound Booster (Self +DMG, +To Hit, +Special)
  • Greatly boosts your attacks for a few seconds. Slightly increases chance to hit. Moderately increases the duration of mez effects. Moderately increases the chance for Sound Manipulation powers to induce migraines. Recharge: Long
•  T5: Deafening Wave (Melee (AoE), High DMG(Sonic/Energy), chance for Hold)
  • You create a large field of sonic waves, causing damage to all foes around you. It has a moderate chance of causing migraines, leaving them shaking in pain and helpless. Recharge: Slow
•  T6: Sound Barrier (Toggle: Self +Absorb, +Recovery, +Res(Smashing, Energy, Sleep))
  • Creates a barrier around the caster which reduces incoming energy and smashing damage, provides protection against sleep effects and grants an absorption shield. Recovery is also increased. Recharge: Moderate
•  T7: Disruption Aura (Toggle: Foe -Res)
  • You emit a constant wave of sonic energy around yourself, weakening the Damage Resistance of all nearby foes. Recharge: Moderate
•  T8: Sound Cannon (Ranged (Cone), Foe Stun, Knockback)
  • You generate a powerful sonic wave that will knock back and disorient foes in front of you for a short time. Recharge: Long
•  T9: Earsplitter (Melee, Heavy DMG(Smashing/Energy), chance for Hold)
  • You generate an earsplitting sound wave right in the face of your foe, inflicting great damage. It has a good chance of causing a migraine, leaving them shaking in pain and helpless. Recharge: Slow

[Jimmy]

Build 1 - October 24th, 2020

Spoiler

New Blaster Secondary: Sonic Manipulation

Sonic Manipulation lets you control sonic forces to manipulate your foes, inflict damage and protect yourself.

 

Powers

•  T1: Sonic Thrust (Melee, Minor DMG(Smash/Energy), Foe Knockback)
  • A focused attack of intense sonic power that violently sends a nearby foe flying. Deals minimal damage, but can be very effective. Recharge: Fast
•  T2: Strident Echo (Melee, Moderate DMG(Smashing/Energy), chance for Hold)
  • Strident Echo deals minor damage over time. It has a low chance of causing a migraine, leaving the target shaking in pain and helpless. Recharge: Slow
•  T3: Echo Chamber (Ranged, Minor DMG(Energy), Foe Hold)
  • Encases the target in a field of sonic waves, dealing energy damage and holding them in place. Recharge: Slow
•  T4: Sound Booster (Self +DMG, +To Hit, +Special)
  • Greatly boosts your attacks for a few seconds. Slightly increases chance to hit. Moderately increases the duration of mez effects. Moderately increases the chance for Sound Manipulation powers to induce migraines. Recharge: Long
•  T5: Deafening Wave (Melee (AoE), High DMG(Sonic/Energy), chance for Hold)
  • You create a large field of sonic waves, causing damage to all foes around you. It has a moderate chance of causing migraines, leaving them shaking in pain and helpless. Recharge: Slow
•  T6: Sound Barrier (Toggle: Self +Absorb, +Recovery, +Res(Smashing, Energy, Sleep))
  • Creates a barrier around the caster which reduces incoming energy and smashing damage, provides protection against sleep effects and grants an absorption shield. Recovery is also increased. Recharge: Moderate
•  T7: Disruption Aura (Toggle: Foe -Res)
  • You emit a constant wave of sonic energy around yourself, weakening the Damage Resistance of all nearby foes. Recharge: Moderate
•  T8: Sound Cannon (Ranged (Cone), Foe Stun, Knockback)
  • You generate a powerful sonic wave that will knock back and disorient foes in front of you for a short time. Recharge: Long
•  T9: Earsplitter (Melee, Heavy DMG(Smashing/Energy), chance for Hold)
  • You generate an earsplitting sound wave right in the face of your foe, inflicting great damage. It has a good chance of causing a migraine, leaving them shaking in pain and helpless. Recharge: Slow

 

[Generator]

So far my only feedback is that I'm not crazy about the name of the secondary effect.  We fight a wide variety of foes for whom it would make little sense that they were given a migraine.

 

In lieu of that, maybe "Resonance"?

 

Either way, love what seeing do far!

[Six-Six]

Vertigo has precedent. might be a better fit than migraine 😃

 

[Replacement]

Counterpoint: I can make a robot vomit.

[Outrider_01]

1 hour ago, Six Six said:

Vertigo has precedent. might be a better fit than migraine 😃

 

This.  Migraines themselves are crippling, had them for a couple of years about a decade ago and then they disappeared for some reason so never suffered again.

 

Vertigo is a better name, its kinda generic as a lot of stuff can cause the effect.  Migraines, just a massive crippling headache nobody should suffer.

[Errants]

2 hours ago, Six Six said:

Vertigo has precedent. might be a better fit than migraine 😃

 

19 minutes ago, Outrider_01 said:

Vertigo is a better name, its kinda generic as a lot of stuff can cause the effect.

Thirding "Vertigo", while it seems close to "stun/dizzy", I think we can still keep the Hold mechanic aspect... And it seems a better fit in-lore for all types of entities, as robots/ghosts/fluffies/etc pro'ly don't care about head pains.

[Keen]

7 hours ago, Jimmy said:

 T3: Echo Chamber (Ranged, Minor DMG(Energy), Foe Hold)

• Encases the target in a field of sonic waves, dealing energy damage and holding them in place. Recharge: Slow

Could you please change this power's effect on the target? As it stand now, it looks exactly the same as Sonic Cage. This might confuse people as caged targets can't be attacked.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Keen

[Zepp]

I agree about migraines being less than ideal (my longest migraine lasted 64 days, and I don't want to think about migraines). Vertigo is likely a better choice.

 

Testing out the powers:

• Sonic Thrust having a repel component is fun, but make the power less effective.
• I would personally prefer Sound Booster to be changed to an auto power that has a containment-like bonus to targets that are suffering from Hold. I think it would provide a feel to the set that matches the Blaptroller vibe.
• The absorb from Sound Barrier seems a little underwhelming, but that may just be because I can't see it doing anything. Also, because you are going to need to Blap to make use of Disruption Aura, the set may need a tad bit more durability than it currently has - especially outside of Sm/Le.
• Disruption Aura may need a little more oomph.
• Sound Cannon doesn't resonate with the rest of the set.

Overall, this seems to be a good set. Not overpowered, but definitely leans towards Blaptrolling. I can see issues with survivability as this set is kinda aggro-magnet-ish. I do, however, enjoy having a playable sonic set.

[Solarverse]

Why is the word Migraine so undesirable exactly?

Other than that, is Sonic Thrust bugged? I mean, I know I am level 50 and everything, but when I shove an NPC in Atlas, they fly so far back I literally lose sight of them. It's like when Superman throws a ball out and into space...literally. It's funny as hell, but that can't be working as intended?

[Zepp]

1 minute ago, Solarverse said:

Why is the word Migraine so undesirable exactly?

Other than that, is Sonic Thrust bugged? I mean, I know I am level 50 and everything, but when I shove an NPC in Atlas, they fly so far back I literally lose sight of them. It's like when Superman throws a ball out and into space...literally. It's funny as hell, but that can't be working as intended?

Repel+KB=craziness ensues

[Zepp]

Whilst the chance for hold mechanic is nice, removing all the - res save for the aura seems a little strange.

[macskull]

8 hours ago, Keen said:

Could you please change this power's effect on the target? As it stand now, it looks exactly the same as Sonic Cage. This might confuse people as caged targets can't be attacked.

I think there are like two people on Homecoming that use Sonic Cage and at any rate 1) there's float text when a target gets caged and 2) it would take one attack for people to realize their target was caged.

[Solarverse]

6 hours ago, macskull said:

I think there are like two people on Homecoming that use Sonic Cage and at any rate 1) there's float text when a target gets caged and 2) it would take one attack for people to realize their target was caged.

I second this. I have yet to see anyone use Sonic Cage. I don't even think I have ever seen anyone use it on live.

[Nemu]

Overall the set has a good feel speed wise, no animation is too clunky and the attacks flow well. Melee blasters like myself will enjoy this set. Here are some comments:

 

Strident Echo's DOT takes too long. You can typically get Strident to under well under 5 seconds recharge and the overlap will waste the remaining dot. Recommend shortening the DOT and upping the front loaded damage.

 

With the rest of the set thematically wrapped around hold as a secondary effect sound cannon seems out of place. I get that in RL thematically loud sounds disorient but this powers offers no synergy whatsoever with the rest of the set. I skipped it in my melee build because no synergy and ranged cone. Given the uproar over the range reduction on electrified net arrow with TA, I imagine having this tied to a 45 feet cone with no synergy with the rest of the set means that the ranged crowd will most likely skip this too.

 

The absorb on sound barrier is negligible and makes no difference whatsoever for those versed in melee blasting. I don't know how the devs would feel about combining the effects of disruption aura into sound barrier. It's not like there is no precedence for combining blaster sustains with debuffs/damage auras...

[Replacement]

9 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Why is the word Migraine so undesirable exactly?

Other than that, is Sonic Thrust bugged? I mean, I know I am level 50 and everything, but when I shove an NPC in Atlas, they fly so far back I literally lose sight of them. It's like when Superman throws a ball out and into space...literally. It's funny as hell, but that can't be working as intended?

Knockback effects get stronger with level difference, so trying to knock people over buildings is certainly a thing.

9 hours ago, Zepp said:

Whilst the chance for hold mechanic is nice, removing all the - res save for the aura seems a little strange.

I think it's a better metric to measure how much -res a blaster can safely be granted in their secondary. Keep in mind people will stack it on water or fire blast.

 

So if the option is lots of embarrassingly small res numbers scattered around or a dedicated power for it, I would choose the one that makes it easier to balance the other powers.

[Solarverse]

13 minutes ago, Replacement said:

Knockback effects get stronger with level difference, so trying to knock people over buildings is certainly a thing.

 

Yeah but...but....my Energy Blaster can't shove them back that far! Thrust has nothing on this, lol! I mean seriously, when I knocked that NPC for the first time I about busted out laughing, it was too funny to contain myself, hahaha

[Replacement]

37 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

Yeah but...but....my Energy Blaster can't shove them back that far! Thrust has nothing on this, lol! I mean seriously, when I knocked that NPC for the first time I about busted out laughing, it was too funny to contain myself, hahaha

Yeah, huge knockback and then the Repel kicks in, heh.  There is one downside:

 

I tried to go over 9000 by combining Sonic Thrust, Combat Teleport, and Air Superiority.

Launch dude off roof -> instant transmission to them -> slam them down towards the ground.

 

Sadly, every time I'd CT to them, the Repel would kick in and push them away from my new position.

 

(if you've ever used Ki Push to push someone around a corner by leaping to a new location after hitting them, you know what I'm talking about.)

Edited October 25, 2020 by Replacement

[becket]

13 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Why is the word Migraine so undesirable exactly?

Migraines are a specific thing that affects actual people in a really devastating way--but which is also often mocked or derided by telling the sufferer to 'get over it' or 'toughen up'. I don't think we need to necessarily rule out every term in SNOMED but replacing Migraine with a less clinical term is probably a good idea. As an analogy, if a powerset had a secondary effect of 'Cancer' it would be deemed instantly inappropriate... it's only the fact that Migraines are frequently misunderstood as 'just bad headaches' that makes this analogy feel odd... actual Migraines can have serious complications including seizures and in some cases brain damage caused by constriction of the blood vessels in the brain. 

 

Vertigo is somewhat less fraught because it doesn't have the same connotation or cultural tangles that Migraine does, but I'd put my vote with the person up thread who suggested 'Resonance'. It's a good word, simple, and is maybe even a more accurate way to describe an effect that can impair robots as well as people!

[Solarverse]

On 10/25/2020 at 2:06 PM, becket said:

Migraines are a specific thing that affects actual people in a really devastating way--but which is also often mocked or derided by telling the sufferer to 'get over it' or 'toughen up'. I don't think we need to necessarily rule out every term in SNOMED but replacing Migraine with a less clinical term is probably a good idea. As an analogy, if a powerset had a secondary effect of 'Cancer' it would be deemed instantly inappropriate... it's only the fact that Migraines are frequently misunderstood as 'just bad headaches' that makes this analogy feel odd... actual Migraines can have serious complications including seizures and in some cases brain damage caused by constriction of the blood vessels in the brain. 

 

Vertigo is somewhat less fraught because it doesn't have the same connotation or cultural tangles that Migraine does, but I'd put my vote with the person up thread who suggested 'Resonance'. It's a good word, simple, and is maybe even a more accurate way to describe an effect that can impair robots as well as people!

I used to get migraines, and still can on occasion. However, I would NEVER be offended by a power or ability named Migraine. It just feels to me that it would be a wee bit overly sensitive of me if I were to take offense to such a thing. There are SOOOOOOOO many things in this world that are bad. There are people in this world, maybe even who play this game who has been struck by a lightning bolt. Maybe somebody in the game had a family member who was killed by one. I personally know somebody who was a close friend of mine who was electrocuted to death while he was at work. Does this mean we need to change the name of Lightning Bolt or Zapp because they can be associated with electrocution or a blot of lightning in order to make sure we don't offend them?

I have a character in game named Drown. Do I need to change my name out of fear that somebody in game knew somebody who drowned?

Do you see where I am going with this? I mean, we should really consider drawing the line somewhere. IMO that line should have been drawn in the sand when we changed the name of Shock Therapy to Electrical Affinity.

We really do need to draw a line somewhere. We can't keep being overly cautious when it comes to naming powers or characters or even the name of movies or games. It gets to a point where we start crossing the line between being respectful of others and it turning in to just being ridiculous.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Solarverse
bad editing, corrected

[ForeverLaxx]

8 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

We really do need to draw a line somewhere. We can't keep being overly cautious when it comes to naming powers or characters or even the name of movies or games. It gets to a point where we start crossing the line between being respectful of others and it turning in to just being ridiculous.

This. Words only have the power you give them and it gets beyond silly to start erasing normal, everyday words simply because some people might associate a term with some specific personal trauma. Shock Therapy was a special case due to the overwhelmingly negative connotation associated with it, but "migraine"? Yeah, those suck (to put it lightly) but it's not exactly offensive or holds some long-standing ethically-dubious history. A power effect called Lobotomize would probably be changed but Migraine really shouldn't -- otherwise we just fall down a spiral of eggshells, trying desperately to not step on the million little shards in fear of upsetting some imagined person from the future. That's how you end up with a game with no flavor or relatability.

 

To the powerset at hand, I can't say I'm a fan of putting knockback powers in a set with a -res aura. That's just negative synergy, though I suppose many sets suffer from this and it does help keep a set from being "pigeonholed" into always working the same way for every player. Still, I will never like sets with auras that affect enemies having knockback powers in them.

[Indystruck]

also, I would love to give Malta Sappers a migraine

[Outrider_01]

1 hour ago, ForeverLaxx said:

This. Words only have the power you give them and it gets beyond silly to start erasing normal, everyday words simply because some people might associate a term with some specific personal trauma.

1) It makes no sense to cause a migraine to an enemy, it would be as laughable has having a power to talk to animals...yet that power has been downplayed to turn Aquaman into a 2nd string Superman with more commonly known abilities like super strength.  He is known to talk to animals, but you will see super strength and bouncing bullets from his invulnerablty more often.

2) Most secondary effects in CoH/V have very generic names like Sleep not Coma, Held not Imprisoned or Bound, Disorient/Confuse/Terrorize are the exception just because that is the name of the effect applied.  You can use Horrify or Petrify, but Spook (doesn't really carry the same weight, more like startled), unhinged (crazy and discombulated), Peturb (troubled).

 

As for Resonance suggestion, that one is just as good as Vertigo.

[Vanden]

6 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Yeah but...but....my Energy Blaster can't shove them back that far! Thrust has nothing on this, lol! I mean seriously, when I knocked that NPC for the first time I about busted out laughing, it was too funny to contain myself, hahaha

Sonic Thrust isn't just knockback, it's a repel. A 2s repel, that thanks to the purple patch can last as long as 10-12s on extremely grey enemies.

[Solarverse]

1 minute ago, Vanden said:

Sonic Thrust isn't just knockback, it's a repel. A 2s repel, that thanks to the purple patch can last as long as 10-12s on extremely grey enemies.

All I know, is that I could sit in Atlas Park and shove these guys for days...that is just too damn funny!