Zone Travel Updates in Issue 27

[therealtitanman]

39 minutes ago, ladypseudo said:

I actually rather enjoyed every single change thus far, save for this one. I love that content's being added. I love that the game is here. There was bound to be something I didn't like, though, not everyone can like everything in existence every second of every day, after all. :P

I do enjoy game with instant tp instead of wait to tp. 

Wait few more weeks, if this issues unaddressed, the population will decrease without needed addressed in this forum.

 

[Jacke]

7 hours ago, Troo said:

Rather than arguing with each person who is just learning about the change we could help point them in the right direction.

 

@Robotech_Masteractually put together a guide for GETTING AROUND THE CITIES OF HEROES AND VILLAINS

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/8194-getting-around-the-cities-of-heroes-and-villains/

An excellent idea.  Which is why I've been explaining how to travel as well now as before Issue 27 Page 1.

 

EDIT: To remove harsh words from a misunderstanding.

 

The macros being an exploit is that it's the use of a GM tool in a way that was never intended and that trivializes so much of the game.

 

No idea what the bug was, because there is no context.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Jacke

[EmperorSteele]

The Bug is this: The command could be used to access ANY map (not just bases), at ANY time: Missions, arena maps, other zones, etc.

They're not going into too much detail, because other servers may not have patched it, but yes, it WAS being used this way, so it had to go. It's also why no one's screaming this in large orange letters.
 

 

[Jacke]

6 hours ago, EmperorSteele said:

The Bug is this: The command could be used to access ANY map (not just bases), at ANY time: Missions, arena maps, other zones, etc.

They're not going into too much detail, because other servers may not have patched it, but yes, it WAS being used this way, so it had to go. It's also why no one's screaming this in large orange letters.

From what I can recall of the discussion in the beta topics, that bug was only discovered--or perhaps discovered to extend to that degree--about 6 or so weeks ago, just before the Open Beta started, when the changes were coming to the form that the Open Beta was started with.

 

A bug being discussed in 2019 could be another bug, or it could be the same bug, but at that time in 2019 was not known to be that serious.

 

EDIT: To remove harsh words from a misunderstanding.

 

Quote

If folks are frustrated, that's understandable.

Yes.  But argue fairly.  Else this is on the road to madness.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Jacke

[macskull]

It's unfortunate that PvP is getting the brunt of the blame probably mostly because I created that thread, but it seems almost universally being blamed on ingame chat channels. Hell, when I logged in for the first time after the update dropped, the first thing I saw in /general was that exact thing. The simplest response to such a suggestion is simply "if it were really a PvP-only issue it could have been disabled only in PvP zones." That being said, I'm honestly getting tired of PvP being blamed for everything bad that's ever happened in this game because it's simply not the case.

[MWRuger]

Wow. I guess by now I should expect people to get upset anytime anything is changed. I don't see the big deal. If you are running content and TF and Trials and the like you will get those exploration badges, just by playing. I hit 50 on Sword of Faith and she had about 10 or so zones unlocked already. I suppose if every toon you play is PL'd then it could be a problem.

Really, if it was an exploit that they said they were going to close, then that's fair. Reading this, it seems that that functionality was never meant to be in the game. Sorta like Hot Coffee in GTA: San Andreas or when Rikti Monkeys were a goldmine for XP. When rikti monkey farms were all the rage on live, we all knew they would get closed, it was an exploit. We certainly used it when it was around and we certainly didn't bitch when it was closed.

I never used it, mainly because I didn't know about it, I get why it was cool, but it's just not that big a deal. There is a lot to like in this issue. I look forward to enjoying. I'm sorry that some people are so disappointed. People are always threatening to leave or predicting the death of the game. Every time any change is made. Remember when disabled Double Inf when XP was disabled? Pages of people complaining and saying that it would ruin the game and that no one would farm anymore, etc, etc. Well, I still farm and I sure see people begging for it chat, so I guess that didn't happen. If people leave because an exploit was closed, then I am sorry to see them go, but that is one them, not the devs.

The only thing I would suggest is making LRT purchasable at a P2W vendor for whatever it used to cost to get Pocket D VIP. Then people can spend inf so they can avoid badging 1 zone for an accolade.

[ladypseudo]

2 minutes ago, MWRuger said:

The only thing I would suggest is making LRT purchasable at a P2W vendor for whatever it used to cost to get Pocket D VIP. Then people can spend inf so they can avoid badging 1 zone for an accolade.

I could get behind this.

[hutokaze]

Hid my other post with a contextual link at another's request, but friendly reminder for the deniers that Leandro did in fact partially use pvp as justification for removing ebfp

Edited November 25, 2020 by hutokaze

[Troo]

1 hour ago, therealtitanman said:

I do enjoy game with instant tp instead of wait to tp. 

Wait few more weeks, if this issues unaddressed, the population will decrease without needed addressed in this forum.

 

No worries, this is an area of the new changes that has some flexibility.

The HC team has said they can and are willing to make further adjustments if needed. The comments received are being read.

In exchange, try the new options out. Ask how to get from A to B if there is an issue.

 

I wanted to change alignments and catch up with an announced event or task force.

That took me:  Zone > Base > Pocket D > Base > Zone

 

I thought it would be challenging because Pocket D VIP Pass is now in the Long Range Teleport.

Turns out it was pretty easy, once explained, just uses two methods rather than the one macro.

Use LRT to get to Pocket D and then the actual Base Portal (which is right there) to get back to a base using the macro's base code.

[Troo]

9 minutes ago, macskull said:

It's unfortunate that PvP is getting the brunt of the blame probably mostly because I created that thread, but it seems almost universally being blamed on ingame chat channels. Hell, when I logged in for the first time after the update dropped, the first thing I saw in /general was that exact thing. The simplest response to such a suggestion is simply "if it were really a PvP-only issue it could have been disabled only in PvP zones." That being said, I'm honestly getting tired of PvP being blamed for everything bad that's ever happened in this game because it's simply not the case.

It's just noise. After next weekend things will settle where they should.

Many are feeling pretty beaten up after the focused feedback.

 

'Nerf Regen' gets tossed around a lot. Regen can take it even though it didn't  just get the most dev attention,, since different devs broke it.

[Jacke]

28 minutes ago, MWRuger said:

Wow. I guess by now I should expect people to get upset anytime anything is changed. I don't see the big deal. If you are running content and TF and Trials and the like you will get those exploration badges, just by playing. I hit 50 on Sword of Faith and she had about 10 or so zones unlocked already. I suppose if every toon you play is PL'd then it could be a problem.

Really, if it was an exploit that they said they were going to close, then that's fair. Reading this, it seems that that functionality was never meant to be in the game. Sorta like Hot Coffee in GTA: San Andreas or when Rikti Monkeys were a goldmine for XP. When rikti monkey farms were all the rage on live, we all knew they would get closed, it was an exploit. We certainly used it when it was around and we certainly didn't bitch when it was closed.

And exploits like the early farming in Perez Park, when mobs could clip into themselves, there was no aggro cap, and Tankers dragged a good chunk of all the mobs in the whole zone to the trash cans so Blasters waiting there could defeat the whole lot.

 

That was fixed, with aggro caps and making mobs have a collision surface to prevent them from packing too close together.  Funny thing, that collision surface of mobs, restricting them from clumping too close, could be a long standing cause of melee AoE powers underperforming, even now.  Fixes can have unintended consequences.

 

 

59 minutes ago, hutokaze said:

Contextual link for the overly lazy (I gotchu @Troo)

 

And all those quotes that everyone are giving are basically the devs talking about the same issue: giving a GM command to all players all the time without restriction, without limit, without cooldown, is open to exploitation in all sorts of ways, in all sorts of places, in all of the game.  Drawing attention to specifics like PvP and trying to blame PvP for a necessary fix for something impacting all the game is unfair.

 

 

14 minutes ago, Troo said:

It's just noise. After next weekend things will settle where they should.

Many are feeling pretty beaten up after the focused feedback.

I think a lot of the devs and GMs were just tired too, a big set of changes that they've been working on for near half a year or more.  Some feedback topics still helped make some of the changes much better.  Especially the Travel changes; just go back and look at the beta original mid-October change notes to see how far they improved.

 

Quote

'Nerf Regen' gets tossed around a lot. Regen can take it even though it didn't  just get the most dev attention,, since different devs broke it.

About as often as @Bionic_Flea says "But @Jimmy....". 😄

 

I've actually made a Katana/Regen Scrapper just to see how bad it can be.  Katana 'cause at least getting good defense should be "easy". 🙂  Though now I'm thinking Dark Melee/Regen...damnit @Troo, you've got me altitis acting up.

 

Anyhoo, someday Regen will have a pass through the revision process and will shine a bit brighter again.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Jacke

[Number Six]

58 minutes ago, Jacke said:

A bug being discussed in 2019 could be another bug, or it could be the same bug, but at that time in 2019 was not known to be that serious.

Back when I posted that, I wanted to make it clear that the behavior of enterbasefrompasscode was not intended, and using it for fast travel was technically an exploit. It wasn't (as far as we knew) a game-breaking one, so it wasn't a high priority to fix, especially because fixing it properly would be a non-trivial task. However, it needed to be said because metagame commands like that are too sandboxy and not consistent with the game design philosophy of the team, so it was destined to be removed eventually. The intent was to come up with some general travel improvements to soften the blow - probably something relating to the clunky base teleporter power - and fix the command then.

 

In the back of my mind was the Long Range Teleport exploit, a related one that was also not considered serious because while it enabled travel to places you normally can't go, it was fairly harmless and had barriers to using it that made it annoying.

 

It wasn't until I finally set out to fix both of those that other, related problems were found. More than one - quite a few actually. Only then did we realize the true scope and severity of what you could do with it. A new subsystem was created to solve the underlying problem rather than putting more band-aids on it like the original developers had done, and that system was hooked up to all of the affected parts of the game: enterbasefrompasscode, the back-end of Long Range Teleport, and at least half a dozen other places.

 

There's been a lot of confusion about the issue, partly because of our policy about discussing potentially severe exploits, partly because people want a simple and clear target to place the blame on: pvp, devs hate players, game breaking exploit, and so on. The reality is much more complex and nuanced than that. It's a combination of many factors, including a conscious game design decision, the rework of the Teleportation pool that was started independently from the EBFP fix but crosses paths with it, and changes of the underlying systems that the command uses in order to solve other issues.

[@Ghost]

An earnest question to throw out since I didn't really see it brought up here or in the feedback thread: what was the philosophy and thought process behind looking at the current slate of powers that now has a half-dozen components vs trying to engineer something at least closer to par in terms of simplicity with what already was there?

 

Like, in terms of the sheer quantity of things you have to engage with, the universal access of /ebfp simplified inter-zone travel down to a one button solution that does it all. Now this system is engaging with unlocking 6+ powers through multiple means, and the future plans are to then add salvage components and special tip missions just to keep adding on to this design. Not to be rude or leading, but it does feel like it's... a lot. Like, bugs and inf sink concerns aside, what's the philosophy behind travel having limitations to begin with? Clearly limitations are meant to be there, but most of the commentary I've seen about the changes is downplaying those restrictions or comparing them favorably to the unlimited option, so I'm curious about why you'd go to these lengths to begin with.

 

edit: for clarity, I should probably add that I mean this in a broad sense as well. We're playing a free version of a dead game on a private server. There's no subscription fees, engagement metrics, etc., to encourage "travel needs to take x minutes between missions" so I sort of wonder where the bar is at without those.

Edited November 25, 2020 by @Ghost

[ZacKing]

4 hours ago, @Ghost said:

An earnest question to throw out since I didn't really see it brought up here or in the feedback thread: what was the philosophy and thought process behind looking at the current slate of powers that now has a half-dozen components vs trying to engineer something at least closer to par in terms of simplicity with what already was there?

 

Like, in terms of the sheer quantity of things you have to engage with, the universal access of /ebfp simplified inter-zone travel down to a one button solution that does it all. Now this system is engaging with unlocking 6+ powers through multiple means, and the future plans are to then add salvage components and special tip missions just to keep adding on to this design. Not to be rude or leading, but it does feel like it's... a lot. Like, bugs and inf sink concerns aside, what's the philosophy behind travel having limitations to begin with? Clearly limitations are meant to be there, but most of the commentary I've seen about the changes is downplaying those restrictions or comparing them favorably to the unlimited option, so I'm curious about why you'd go to these lengths to begin with.

 

edit: for clarity, I should probably add that I mean this in a broad sense as well. We're playing a free version of a dead game on a private server. There's no subscription fees, engagement metrics, etc., to encourage "travel needs to take x minutes between missions" so I sort of wonder where the bar is at without those.

from my observation simplicity was never part of the equation.  any comments or suggestions that asked to have a single, simple power were shot down and those who suggested it were attacked for their feedback.  what should've been a simple copy/paste of the Oro portal power turned into a jumbled mess.  

[Blackbird71]

10 hours ago, Jimmy said:

An example of one of those topics hotly discussed during the beta phase was the wide variety of options available. Some players wanted to combine everything, and others wanted to keep the variety.

 

Consolidating everything into a single power definitely wasn’t a majority opinion, and it’s important to take all viewpoints into account. Some consolidation was done - Pocket D became LRT instead of remaining a separate option, /ebfp was added to several powers, allowing you to use just that command more often if you want to, and the fast travel menu was added - but it’s a fine line to walk between those who want variety and those who want simplicity.

You are conflating two separate pieces of feedback that were given, and perhaps this misunderstanding is at the core of the situation we are now in.  Largely for sentimental reasons, people generally did not want classic, unique travel powers (such as the Pocket D teleport) to be rolled into LRTP, so in that sense, yes, people wanted to keep the variety.

However, my observation was that there was a significant consensus that adding two new powers (and to an extent, even LRTP) on top of the already existing base teleportation powers created an unwieldy mess and was completely unnecessary.  It has created a situation where to regain the same frequency of base hops that were possible before requires at least three or more powers to be used in conjunction with each other, instead of just being able to pick one that best suits our needs.

What was largely wanted (and repeatedly asked for) was for one base teleport power to have a reasonable activation time (long enough to be interruptible and prevent mission abuse, etc.), a short cooldown (60s-90s seems to have been preferred), with no other restrictions on the frequency of use (such as needing to recharge).  A single power that met these would have solved all practical arguments over this issue. 

[Luminara]

9 hours ago, Jacke said:

And people like @Luminara used Hurdle as a jumping travel power because builds were even tighter prior to Inherent Fitness.

 

I appreciate the mention, but I'm obliged to correct this.  My initial character without travel powers wasn't made that way because I couldn't fit one into the build, it was because I envisioned her as a "true" natural origin character.  In fact, she didn't have Hurdle at all, originally.  I started out trying to make Swift + Sprint work.  It was only after stumbling across a post which mentioned base stats on Swift, Hurdle and Sprint that I began experimenting with Hurdle, doing the math and learning how movement mechanics functioned in the game.  After making the most direct and fair comparisons I could, at the time, between characters with Hurdle and Fly, equivalently slotted, then I understood that Hurdle could be a viable substitute for a travel power.  I made my next character with Hurdle as a travel power in order to test and verify (or dispute) my observations, math and conclusions.  And after that, it just became my default choice, partially because I knew the math and mechanics quite well at that point, and partially because I enjoyed it more than any of the actual travel powers.

 

Having made the transition to Hurdle for nearly all of my characters might have unintentionally freed up a couple of power selections on some, but that was never the intended goal or purpose of making that choice.  I did it because I liked the way the Hurdle worked mechanically and knew that it was fast enough, even when teamed (yes, i did, in fact, play on teams in those days (no, i was never last to the door (usually third or fourth, sometimes first), and no, i never needed to be TPed to keep up)).

 

Tight builds were never a factor for this decision.  They still aren't (most of my characters now are Hurdlers).

[thunderforce]

7 hours ago, ladypseudo said:

I again have to respectfully disagree. I've brought quite a number of folks to Homecoming, and the ability to fast-travel was a huge thing for them. Because of how long it takes to go from one zone to the next, in other MMOs. Not having to deal with it here, was a huge bonus for them.

There's a bit of a false dichotomy here between it taking as long to get anywhere as it does in (eg) World of Walking [1] and it being possible to go anywhere instantly. Even on live, even without any of the veteran travel improvements, a City character with a travel power could get to where they were going much more quickly than in many MMOs... and IDK if this is true for everyone, but zone loading times for me are a lot less than they were on live, making multi-zone journeys quicker.

 

I think this change is excellent; if anything, I'd be happier if there was slightly less fast travel. Just removing the exploit would have been good, but the developers seem to have put a lot of effort into an interesting replacement system.

 

[1] You walk as fast as a City character (circa 14mph) would without Sprint or Swift or any run speed enhancements... ie, since inherent Fitness, your City character is faster out the box even if you can't find Sprint - until you get Walk at level 2, you literally _can't_ move as slowly as a WoW character.

in the City, you get a travel power at level 4; even Fly, the slowest of these, does you circa 55mph. In World of Walking - I'll spare you the full breakdown, but you can ride at a princely 23mph at level 20, assuming you can afford the training, and you can eventually get to 59mph at level 80.

In the City, the trams are free and instant. In World of Walking, you pay in-game currency for every flight. They go a little bit faster (but still slower than Afterburner, Super Jump, Super Speed, or Teleport)... but they don't go by a direct route.

 

(Disclaimer; I've only played it enough to find I don't want to play it, so the minituae here may be off, but you get the idea...)

[Jacke]

  

4 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

You are conflating two separate pieces of feedback that were given, and perhaps this misunderstanding is at the core of the situation we are now in.  Largely for sentimental reasons, people generally did not want classic, unique travel powers (such as the Pocket D teleport) to be rolled into LRTP, so in that sense, yes, people wanted to keep the variety.

Interesting thoughts, @Blackbird71.  I wanted things both ways. both the repurposed LRT power as well as the classic Pocket D teleport.  With its arrival point in the Pocket D Tiki Lounge moved so as not to disturb the floor show.

 

What we have now is better than a low recharge Base teleport power.  LRT takes you to a zone in one jump, near the base portal so you can go in for restock or carry on elsewhere in the zone.  Teleport to a base, you have to go to the porters there to get to another zone.  But that's still possible, with 4 other powers.  And all 5 powers can be used to get access to the current /enterbasefrompasscode.

[Blackbird71]

3 minutes ago, Jacke said:

 What we have now is better than a low recharge Base teleport power.  LRT takes you to a zone in one jump, near the base portal so you can go in for restock or carry on elsewhere in the zone.  Teleport to a base, you have to go to the porters there to get to another zone.  But that's still possible, with 4 other powers.  And all 5 powers can be used to get access to the current /enterbasefrompasscode.

Whether what we have now is better is a matter of opinion, subject entirely to your primary usage.  Not everyone uses the command and powers in the same way.  As I pointed out to Jimmy previously, you are assuming the base is the transit point and not the destination.  My playstyle is such that I'd rather be able to travel to multiple bases within the space of a few minutes, without having to acquire and use several different powers to do it or worrying about whether I have enough charges, than I would want the ability to instantly teleport directly to any zone.

But there is no reason we can't have both.  It should be simple to have the LRTP as has been implemented, and also modify one of the existing base teleport powers to serve these needs.  The two are not mutually exclusive.

[Glacier Peak]

7 hours ago, therealtitanman said:

Wait few more weeks, if this issues unaddressed, the population will decrease without needed addressed in this forum.

Where's your evidence to support this claim? In this game, where can you show evidence that any change the Homecoming team has made that decreased the population? This data doesn't exist because there isn't a methodology publicly in place to record changes in the population BASED SOLELY ON CHANGES  MADE BY THE HOMECOMING VOLUNTEERS. Your speculative opinion is not grounded in reality and does not provide substantive feedback to the volunteers who run this game who don't have all the time in the world to sift through basic level opinionated complaints and real criticisms out feedback that can actually be addressed. 

 

I'm tired of reading posts from people just complaining because they don't have an outlet for it elsewhere and think they are entitled to wasting volunteer time with their non-contributing opinions. 

 

Not liking something in this game is entirely different than describing an actual problem that can go in a bug report or lead to actionable changes after being reviewed by the HC team. 

[Jacke]

34 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

My playstyle is such that I'd rather be able to travel to multiple bases within the space of a few minutes, without having to acquire and use several different powers to do it or worrying about whether I have enough charges, than I would want the ability to instantly teleport directly to any zone.

That should already be possible.  Outside of a base, the 5 powers allow use of the /enterbasefrompasscode to get into a base.

 

What I forgot to mention is that inside a base, you can jump to another base with /enterbasefrompasscode directly. 

 

Just tested it with 2 macros in my Custom Window.  Bounced back and forth between Bases until I was dizzy. 🙂

 

Ah, Custom Window.  A feature in City that's been around for a while.  Rediscovered it a few weeks ago.  I made this post last week that covers it in some detail in the last half.

 

 

The same file is automatically shared on all your toons.  Reduced to the little grey box, it's very unobtrusive.

 

The only issue is you should leave the Custom Window, whether expanded or the little grey box, in the upper left of your UI.  The darn thing will jump around a bit, but at least it will roughly stay in the upper left.  (Need to make a bug post about that.)  I don't think it's suitable for combat use, but for a bunch of Base /ebfp macros, it's perfect.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Jacke

[therealtitanman]

19 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Where's your evidence to support this claim? In this game, where can you show evidence that any change the Homecoming team has made that decreased the population? This data doesn't exist because there isn't a methodology publicly in place to record changes in the population BASED SOLELY ON CHANGES  MADE BY THE HOMECOMING VOLUNTEERS. Your speculative opinion is not grounded in reality and does not provide substantive feedback to the volunteers who run this game who don't have all the time in the world to sift through basic level opinionated complaints and real criticisms out feedback that can actually be addressed. 

 

I'm tired of reading posts from people just complaining because they don't have an outlet for it elsewhere and think they are entitled to wasting volunteer time with their non-contributing opinions. 

 

Not liking something in this game is entirely different than describing an actual problem that can go in a bug report or lead to actionable changes after being reviewed by the HC team. 

Thats is why,

i keep mention earlier, when chain quote like yours, any suggestion or feedback will be nitpicking, snowballed into these complains, attacking, hate dev, qq post. 

Any suggestion, will be flushed with hush and endless chain of qq's qq. 

If you tired of reading any comments, you can read other post instead just quote everyone and clap back, hush them with chain of seeking fight on the internet.

Everyone has their way of debate, Dev can choose to ignore or change it. The final decision is theirs.

IF i continue to quote you back, this going to be endless of internet qqs.

 

plus dont @ me anymore, back to the topic, instead keep flushing endless of qq

Edited November 25, 2020 by therealtitanman

[Drakwatch]

18 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

My playstyle is such that I'd rather be able to travel to multiple bases within the space of a few minutes, without having to acquire and use several different powers to do it or worrying about whether I have enough charges, than I would want the ability to instantly teleport directly to any zone.

Can't you use the /enterbasefrompasscode from inside a base? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the command as it is now has a cooldown, so you could in theory travel to a SG base, use /enterbasefrompasscode and then pop from one base to the next without going back to a different zone. From there you should be able to travel to any zone that the base has a portal to. Is that not what you're looking to do?

[therealtitanman]

3 minutes ago, Drakwatch said:

Can't you use the /enterbasefrompasscode from inside a base? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the command as it is now has a cooldown, so you could in theory travel to a SG base, use /enterbasefrompasscode and then pop from one base to the next without going back to a different zone. From there you should be able to travel to any zone that the base has a portal to. Is that not what you're looking to do?

you only can use enterbase 50ft near the base portal. or inside portal zone like pocket d. once you leave you have to move anywhere has and near the base portal.

[ZacKing]

24 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Where's your evidence to support this claim? In this game, where can you show evidence that any change the Homecoming team has made that decreased the population? This data doesn't exist because there isn't a methodology publicly in place to record changes in the population BASED SOLELY ON CHANGES  MADE BY THE HOMECOMING VOLUNTEERS. Your speculative opinion is not grounded in reality and does not provide substantive feedback to the volunteers who run this game who don't have all the time in the world to sift through basic level opinionated complaints and real criticisms out feedback that can actually be addressed. 

 

I'm tired of reading posts from people just complaining because they don't have an outlet for it elsewhere and think they are entitled to wasting volunteer time with their non-contributing opinions. 

 

Not liking something in this game is entirely different than describing an actual problem that can go in a bug report or lead to actionable changes after being reviewed by the HC team. 

no one is preventing you from ignoring posts you don't like.  listening to opinions is a good thing because you'll learn something from them that you probably didn't think of yourself.  healthy debate isn't a one way street.