Trapdoor Test Results - the other half of Pylon testing?

[Sovera]

Removed the -res procs to test the Claws/Fire.

 

Pylon was the usual once -res are removed with the times plummeting to 3:45

 

Trapdoor testing just didn't care with 5:12.

 

Overall since the game doesn't care for normal gameplay then keep the -res for tougher enemies. Caveat: if someone else has the -res procs slotted it goes to waste, but, clearing maps doesn't care either way, so...

 

 

Fire Armor skews things a lot. The 'AoE' sets like Claws and Rad Melee get the same time as Energy Melee with the 'weak AoE'. It's a case of saying 'welp, if they all clear a map at just about the same speed then go for the one with stronger ST and less resisted damage type'.

 

Even Rad Melee with Atom Smasher -and- IG is pretty much in line with EM since I suppose the extra ST applied to the tougher mobs makes up for the AoE lagging behind.

[Resuna]

On 1/28/2022 at 9:03 PM, Sovera said:

It's so confusing to me when I see you guys play without all the mobs showing their HP bar. How do you know when to swap and hit one who has more HP and leave the rest to AoE action?

 

Wait, how do I enable it to have all the mobs showing their HP bars? I looked through the menus but didn't see an option to have that always on. I would prefer to see all the hp bars

[DarknessEternal]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

Overall since the game doesn't care for normal gameplay then keep the -res for tougher enemies. Caveat: if someone else has the -res procs slotted it goes to waste, but, clearing maps doesn't care either way, so...

 

You've convinced me to put -res back in my powers.  I stopped using them because it didn't matter for trash, but it doesn't matter for trash either way.

[ScarySai]

Trapdoor has a lot of narrow hallways, awkward jumps (especially if a web nade tags you right before) and big, lethal resisting mobs that combined with the vents, can very easily body block you and prevent proper positioning for a set like claws, in addition to the higher-than-normal lethal resists.

 

Most aoe centric melee sets have 'good enough' burst to body a boss, and most ST focused sets have 'good enough' aoe to wipe out the minions/LTs so you can focus on the boss. There's also some RNG to it, a poorly timed smoke grenade can set you back if you don't want to use insps. This does undervalue some sets, but it does seem like a good enough average benchmark in most cases, if you can work around the minor annoyances. Especially the camera.

 

Side note for @Bill Z Bubba: I tried my warshade earlier since It's one of my mains and I was confident in a good time, but I got four quantum galaxy boss spawns in a row and gave up on getting a good time. While they aren't a threat to my character, they are a big bag of hit points with resists that heavily stalled the time. Perhaps I was just unlucky, but if I try again tomorrow and it's consistent, it make's the clear time alone for trapdoor a suboptimal way to measure them relative to other classes. 

 

Absolutely shredded the minions/LTs, though.

Edited January 30, 2022 by ScarySai

[Sovera]

6 hours ago, Resuna said:

 

Wait, how do I enable it to have all the mobs showing their HP bars? I looked through the menus but didn't see an option to have that always on. I would prefer to see all the hp bars

 

/optionset ShowVillainName 1
/optionset ShowVillainBars 1

[Sovera]

Savage/Fire Brute.

 

Three fast cycling PbAoEs makes the build feel real good. The operative word might just be 'fun'. The ST doesn't feel bad either thanks to Burn subbing in as a heavy hitter. Despite being a Brute and 'squishy' Fire Armor I did not need to heal or even use Consume (which makes sense since the burst is big and half the spawn is dead in the first seconds).

 

5:33.

5:17

 

Looking back Savage/Stone is not that far behind (5:47) so Burn did not help all that much. But, heck, this combo feels really nice to play with an initial cycle of Rending Flurry, Savage Leap, Burn, Rending Flurry before having to resort to ST moves. AoE when we need it because we are surrounded by enemies is much nicer than being surrounded and having to use single target moves.

 

 

Took it to the pylons and got 3:41. Same time as Claws without -res involved

 

Did another test without Burn just for comparing with Savage/Stone: 4:16.

 

 

The damage boost from Brimstone is not to be discounted when it catches up to Fiery Embrace and Burn for a 3:20 (though also because it can fit in more procs since it reaches caps more easily). Considering it is just slightly behind in AoE clear and actually slightly ahead in ST, while also being a heck more impervious. I'd still call the Savage/Fire more fun when that initial clear just decimates.

 

But. Back to the elephant in the room. 'Weak' AoE Energy Melee still finishes ahead in pylons (2:30) and Trapdoor (4:57) with this particular combo.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Sovera

[Sovera]

EM/Stone.

 

Without Fire Armor to muddy the waters the lack of AoE finally showed itself:

 

7 minutes.

6:28

 

Whirling Hands alone is no big shakes to clear groups, though the ST remains comparable to EM/Fire with both having 2:30 just in raw power, no -res shenanigans involved.

 

I'll have to agree that the tunnels don't let the builds be exploited to their potential. With EM and with all mobs having their HP bar on display I'm picking my targets that have more HP while animations are running which lets TF and ET be used to their full potential instead of being used against whatever is closest.

[Sovera]

With the whole 'if -res or damage procs don't matter either way for clearing' I shuffled the EM/Fire slotting around to squeeze in a Fury of the Gladiator into Burn.

 

Trapdoor:

5:06.

4:38

 

Within variance of the previous 4:47 in my opinion.

 

Pylon:

- 2:16

- 2:21. ...so many misses.

- 2:17

 

Not a large improvement over the previous 2:30 but hard to say thanks to whiffing.

 

 

Spoiler

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.1.2.5
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Energy Melee
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Energy Punch -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(3), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Fire Shield -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(7), TtnCtn-ResDam(9), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), StdPrt-ResKB(13), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(29)
Level 2: Bone Smasher -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(13), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(15), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), TchofDth-Dam%(23), GldStr-%Dam(25)
Level 4: Blazing Aura -- SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprUnrFur-Dmg/Rchg(11), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), SprUnrFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprUnrFur-Rchg/+Regen/+End(33)
Level 6: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(7), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(27), Rct-ResDam%(46)
Level 8: Whirling Hands -- SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 10: Healing Flames -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(17), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(19), Prv-Heal/Rchg(19), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(21), Prv-Absorb%(21)
Level 12: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), RechRdx-I(34), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 16: Plasma Shield -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(31), TtnCtn-ResDam(31), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 18: Total Focus -- Hct-Dam%(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(27), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Hct-Acc/Rchg(47), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(48), TchofDth-Dam%(48)
Level 20: Consume -- SynSck-EndMod(A), SynSck-Dam/Rech(36), SynSck-EndMod/Rech(36), SynSck-Dam/Rech/Acc(36), SynSck-Dam/Acc/End(37), SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(37)
Level 22: Fly -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 24: Evasive Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 28: Burn -- SprBrtFur-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(40), Arm-Dam%(42), Erd-%Dam(42)
Level 30: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Energy Transfer -- SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBrtFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprBrtFur-Rech/Fury%(34), TchofDth-Dam%(43), GldStr-%Dam(39), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(43)
Level 35: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 41: Tough -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(46), TtnCtn-ResDam(46), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 47: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(50), Rct-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Temperature Protection -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A), Clr-RunSpd(37)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(15), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(25)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(17)
Level 1: Energy Focus
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 50: Born In Battle
Level 50: Invader
Level 50: Marshal
Level 50: High Pain Threshold
Level 22: Afterburner
------------

 

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Sovera

[Sovera]

I keep on trying to better the Rad/Stone Brute but every try is actually worse ranging from 6:40 to 7 minutes. The ST is partly the culprit as it relies on the -res procs to make it acceptable but where a pylon will take several minutes of hitting a single target the fast moving nature of the Trapdoor test does not give time for the -res to come into play and the slow whittling of bosses is noticeable compared to other sets.

[ScarySai]

@Sovera I'm working on a rad/rad now (on a bit of a rad kick this week, eh?) And I could very easily see the scrapper version of rad/stone getting sub 5 minute times.

 

It's single target is a lot better, and the aoe is mostly the same if not better.

[Sovera]

15 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

@Sovera I'm working on a rad/rad now (on a bit of a rad kick this week, eh?) And I could very easily see the scrapper version of rad/stone getting sub 5 minute times.

 

It's single target is a lot better, and the aoe is mostly the same if not better.

 

But then runners gonna run.

 

...stop remind me I want a Claws/Stone...

[ScarySai]

Can't run if 'yer dead. 

 

Claws/stone would probably be very strong as well.

Edited January 31, 2022 by ScarySai

[Bopper]

I didn't see many Widow times in here, and it seemed to be mostly Night Widows. So I tried out my Fortunata Hybrid for a run. I don't recall the rules for a "Trapdoor Test" so I'll be upfront with my set up:

• +4/x8
• I used Base Empowerments: Attack Speed, Perception, Recovery, Slow Resist, and a few resistances which didn't matter as my health never went below 80%.
• I used my Judgement, Destiny, and Alpha. However, I did not use my Hybrid (it was slotted for the passive buff).
• I did not use any inspirations nor temp powers nor amplifiers.

My time was 5:08. With practice, maybe I improve on it...but other than the frequent runners I had to chase down, I thought I ran it pretty smooth - and by that I mean I didn't miss my jumps into the tunnel very often. 

 

Although I missed having a taunt aura (I usually play a tank), having Dominate, Gloom, Dark Oblit, and PsiNado really helped with starting fights early (as I was running to the mob) and closing out fights (picking off runners with slivers of health). One regret...I forgot to use my nuke a couple of times. 

 

[Resuna]

On 1/29/2022 at 1:26 PM, Almighty Magic said:

Finalized my build on the test server, got a feel for the playstyle now and ready to take it live. New time is 4:22 secs

 

 

 

Damn that looks good. Makes me want to roll up a Rad/Rad tanker. Would you be willing to share the build?

[KaizenSoze]

14 hours ago, Bopper said:

I didn't see many Widow times in here, and it seemed to be mostly Night Widows. So I tried out my Fortunata Hybrid for a run. I don't recall the rules for a "Trapdoor Test" so I'll be upfront with my set up:

Fortunata do well on this test. One of @Kanil inital tests was a Fort.

 

Ironically, the reason Night Widows are mentioned more in the thread is because of players like me trying to get NW times even remotely close to Fort times.

 

Night Widows lack of good AOE and procable attacks really hurts. Their single target might be slightly better than Forts, but not by much.

[Bopper]

1 hour ago, KaizenSoze said:

Fortunata do well on this test. One of @Kanil inital tests was a Fort.

 

Ironically, the reason Night Widows are mentioned more in the thread is because of players like me trying to get NW times even remotely close to Fort times.

 

Night Widows lack of good AOE and procable attacks really hurts. Their single target might be slightly better than Forts, but not by much.

Correct on all. Less AoE, similar ST.

[StriderIV]

23 hours ago, Bopper said:

Correct on all. Less AoE, similar ST.

I've always found Fort's extremely interesting. They seem like they can do a bit of everything. Seems like a great teaming toon, but can solo as well.

[Bopper]

20 minutes ago, StriderIV said:

I've always found Fort's extremely interesting. They seem like they can do a bit of everything. Seems like a great teaming toon, but can solo as well.

Absolutely. It's the ultimate hybrid between DPS, Support and control

[KaizenSoze]

27 minutes ago, StriderIV said:

I've always found Fort's extremely interesting. They seem like they can do a bit of everything. Seems like a great teaming toon, but can solo as well.

Forts are fricking awesome. The only problem is deciding which powers to use, because most of them are good.

 

One the ATs that really benefits from being able to have multiple builds.

[StriderIV]

2 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

Forts are fricking awesome. The only problem is deciding which powers to use, because most of them are good.

 

One the ATs that really benefits from being able to have multiple builds.

That seems like it will always keep the game interesting. I know @Gulbasaur has a Fort build floating around. If you have one you love that you'd like to share Kai, I'd love to give one a whirl!

[ScarySai]

Was going to post my new Rad/ss test results, but my internet is proving uncooperative on the upload. Will post it once the issue resolves.

[KaizenSoze]

1 hour ago, StriderIV said:

That seems like it will always keep the game interesting. I know @Gulbasaur has a Fort build floating around. If you have one you love that you'd like to share Kai, I'd love to give one a whirl!

@Gulbasaur is an excellent source of Fort builds.

 

Kunil also posted one to this thread.

 

Weirdly I cannot find my current build. I'll post it tomorrow.

[StriderIV]

34 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

@Gulbasaur is an excellent source of Fort builds.

 

Kunil also posted one to this thread.

 

Weirdly I cannot find my current build. I'll post it tomorrow.

Appreciate you!

[ScarySai]

First revision of my Rad/SS has proved worth the trouble. Final time of 3:58.

 

 

And since recording, I think I have an idea that can shave the time down even more.

Edited February 4, 2022 by ScarySai

[Gulbasaur]

6 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

@Gulbasaur is an excellent source of Fort builds.

 

Kind of you to say.

 

It's so weird that this silly build thread I posted ages ago about builds because I just like writing guides has so much attention. I'm still more or less using the same build (though I play around a lot) because it's really solid. I long for the day when VEATs get weapon customisation (I want energy weapon glow hands instead of knuckle duster claws), but that will never happen. 

 

I'll also shout out @tidge is giving excellent Fortunata advice. We often take different approaches to the same goal and I've learnt from them. 

 

I did actually try out the trapdoor test recently. Super safe, but the DPS was a bit middling and it took a while and the idea of running it five times to take an average didn't interest me. If you build it strongly for damage, you would do better (the snipe attacks from the PPPs etc), but my builds are more generalist. 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Gulbasaur