Trapdoor Test Results - the other half of Pylon testing?

[Gobbledigook]

First ever run with Bio/SS Tanker.  4mins 16 secs.

 

Started the timer as soon as i entered the base. It took a few seconds of self buffing, non hybrid.

 

Ran into a couple of dead ends and had trouble jumping down the holes lol. I can't seem to jump down th holes, keep jumping over them instead 😛 Guess i am getting old.

 

Boss goes down fast in about 5 hits.

 

Pylon time is between 1.54-2.22, usually around 2.12 though with Hybrid on. 

[Black_Assassin]

12 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

I can't seem to jump down th holes, keep jumping over them instead 😛 Guess i am getting old.

 

Do you run Combat Jumping?

[Gobbledigook]

4 hours ago, Black_Assassin said:

 

Do you run Combat Jumping?

Yes

That could be the problem?

 

Never thought about that 😛

 

I tried it without Cj, didn't make a big difference really. One time it took me nearly 20 seconds just to get it to jump down a hole lol. Just me i think i do seem to struggle in tunnels nowadays. shame it wasn't a city test with nice open spaces 😛 as this test is more of a mobility test as much as a clear mob test.

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Gobbledegook

[InvaderStych]

4 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

I tried it without Cj, didn't make a big difference really. One time it took me nearly 20 seconds just to get it to jump down a hole lol. Just me i think i do seem to struggle in tunnels nowadays. shame it wasn't a city test with nice open spaces 😛 as this test is more of a mobility test as much as a clear mob test.

 

Fastest way down those for me has been to CT myself right above the hole on anything that doesn't fly.  I'm open to suggestions on how to get down those shafts quickly with a hovering toon though, lol.

 

I sort of wish there were a wider cross-section of times in this thread.  It's interesting to see what outliers can do and all that, but seeing longer times from the likes of @Linea was both enlightening and encouraging.  We all know the durability for which their toons are built - if someone was out there getting that level of durability and posting 4 min clear times I might have to just /em tableflip and walk away. 🤣

 

My most durable toon (Psi/SD/Bod scrapper) can do the run without breaking a sweat, but she's unlikely to crack the 7 minute mark (owing to few AoEs) even if I do figure out how to speed down those shafts while in Hover/EvM. 😄

 

I was on pace for a decent time with the Fire/Martial/Scorp, but then I let my guard down and died, lol.

 

Since the 4 minute club seems to be using Ageless, I assume then that Destiny is on the table for these runs?

[Sovera]

3 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

 

Fastest way down those for me has been to CT myself right above the hole on anything that doesn't fly.  I'm open to suggestions on how to get down those shafts quickly with a hovering toon though, lol.

 

I sort of wish there were a wider cross-section of times in this thread.  It's interesting to see what outliers can do and all that, but seeing longer times from the likes of @Linea was both enlightening and encouraging.  We all know the durability for which their toons are built - if someone was out there getting that level of durability and posting 4 min clear times I might have to just /em tableflip and walk away. 🤣

 

My most durable toon (Psi/SD/Bod scrapper) can do the run without breaking a sweat, but she's unlikely to crack the 7 minute mark (owing to few AoEs) even if I do figure out how to speed down those shafts while in Hover/EvM. 😄

 

I was on pace for a decent time with the Fire/Martial/Scorp, but then I let my guard down and died, lol.

 

Since the 4 minute club seems to be using Ageless, I assume then that Destiny is on the table for these runs?

 

 

There was talk about inspirations use around the start of this. People use yellows to avoid blinds and use their epics for more damage while some use their epic for FA to avoid blinds but don't use reds to make up for it. Obviously the inspiration use favors the epic pool used for damage.

 

But, and this is important, this is not a race with a winner and prizes and scantily clad @Luminaras. It's a test of our builds. I'm content with my sub-five on the EM/Fire/Energy Brute who also has 2:30 pylon times. It's generalistic, does not depend on inspirations, and scoffs at blinds and -tohit even if grabbing another AoE would help things along.

 

...even if Rad Armor may yet be the new Fire Armor with proc bombed Radiation Therapy doing damage, healing -and- replenishing endurance. T9s only wish they could.

[Gobbledigook]

37 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

 

 

I sort of wish there were a wider cross-section of times in this thread.  It's interesting to see what outliers can do and all that, but seeing longer times from the likes of @Linea was both enlightening and encouraging.  We all know the durability for which their toons are built - if someone was out there getting that level of durability and posting 4 min clear times I might have to just /em tableflip and walk away.

The Bio/SS has done a solo 801.5 and soloed ITF. 90%s/l resists in offensive with 3k health and an 1800 absorb on fast rotation is pretty tough. Defensive is there if needed.

 

Getting the procs right makes a big difference.

[Luminara]

30 minutes ago, Sovera said:

But, and this is important, this is not a race with a winner and prizes and scantily clad @Luminaras.

 

Oh, I'm cheerleading this event?  Okay, hold on, let me get into the right mindset...

 

You are a speck a speck a speck a speck, an imperfection awaiting erasure.  Perforrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrm, iiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnsect, or I will use your meat as a decoraaaaaaaaaaaaaaation.

[Linea]

1 hour ago, Gobbledegook said:

The Bio/SS has done a solo 801.5 and soloed ITF.

I've threatened many times to build my Bio/Kat tank.  One of my partners in duo alpha testing 801 was frequently a Bio/Spines.  We each had our weaknesses. I would take the the DDRs for them and they would take out the Shockers for me.  Which was worse for you?   EB Cannons, EB Rads, or something else?

[StriderIV]

9 hours ago, Gulbasaur said:

Kind of you to say.

 

It's so weird that this silly build thread I posted ages ago about builds because I just like writing guides has so much attention. I'm still more or less using the same build (though I play around a lot) because it's really solid. I long for the day when VEATs get weapon customisation (I want energy weapon glow hands instead of knuckle duster claws), but that will never happen. 

 

I'll also shout out @tidge is giving excellent Fortunata advice. We often take different approaches to the same goal and I've learnt from them. 

 

I did actually try out the trapdoor test recently. Super safe, but the DPS was a bit middling and it took a while and the idea of running it five times to take an average didn't interest me. If you build it strongly for damage, you would do better (the snipe attacks from the PPPs etc), but my builds are more generalist. 

Hey Gulb! Would your "Build #4" in your post still be your most current build?

[InvaderStych]

3 hours ago, Sovera said:

Obviously the inspiration use favors the epic pool used for damage.

 

Yeah, I tend to try countering Blindness with other sources of +to-hit/+perception, so the insp tray could stay closed.  My Psi/SD does use Rebirth though, so I figure if folks are dropping Ageless I could probably keep that available.  Hybrid slotted, not clicked, no Judgement, etc, etc etc.  Been trying to keep up with the norm - it wasn't until the videos started dropping that I noticed all the Ageless.

 

In fairness, the Psi/SD could probably do the run faster with a different Epic and working in Ageless, but I'm really accustomed to the way the Rebirth/Holds build plays. 🙂

 

3 hours ago, Sovera said:

But, and this is important, this is not a race with a winner and prizes and scantily clad @Luminaras. It's a test of our builds. I'm content with my sub-five on the EM/Fire/Energy Brute who also has 2:30 pylon times. It's generalistic, does not depend on inspirations, and scoffs at blinds and -tohit even if grabbing another AoE would help things along.

 

Agreed.  I suspect that just as I could take one of the 4 Minute Club builds and still not come close to the same times, a more competent player could take one of my toons and get faster times even without tuning the builds.  Still though, it is interesting to give this a go on the few toons where I've made major time and FakeMoneyUnit investments.

 

2 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

The Bio/SS has done a solo 801.5 and soloed ITF. 90%s/l resists in offensive with 3k health and an 1800 absorb on fast rotation is pretty tough. Defensive is there if needed.

 

Getting the procs right makes a big difference.

 

Baffling. Not the numbers in that quote, on a tank that makes sense.  It's the damage output.  Baffling.

Edited February 4, 2022 by InvaderStych

[tidge]

It doesn't look like I posted any Trapdoor tests for any my Fortunata, but what I discovered playing my default build is that the Blindness was slowing down a "clear all" much more than I would have liked. I also didn't quite have the emphasis for large-spawn-clearing damage on my particular favorite build. I've been looking for a specific reason to have a more team-dedicated 50+ third build... maybe by double-dipping into the Leadership pool and focusing on AoE I could improve my times?

[Gulbasaur]

1 hour ago, StriderIV said:

Hey Gulb! Would your "Build #4" in your post still be your most current build?

I play around with power pools quite a lot, but the core of it is the same. Currently enjoying the Presence pool, but not really, really sold on losing the convenience of Teleport Target.

 

16 minutes ago, tidge said:

It doesn't look like I posted any Trapdoor tests for any my Fortunata, but what I discovered playing my default build is that the Blindness was slowing down a "clear all" much more than I would have liked. I also didn't quite have the emphasis for large-spawn-clearing damage on my particular favorite build. I've been looking for a specific reason to have a more team-dedicated 50+ third build... maybe by double-dipping into the Leadership pool and focusing on AoE I could improve my times?

 

For me, it was taking down bosses. Minions got splatted. Lieutenants were present but irrelevant as AoEs took them out eventually. I'm much more build for AoE chaos than single targets, particularly when on a timer.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Gulbasaur

[Gobbledigook]

4 hours ago, Linea said:

I've threatened many times to build my Bio/Kat tank.  One of my partners in duo alpha testing 801 was frequently a Bio/Spines.  We each had our weaknesses. I would take the the DDRs for them and they would take out the Shockers for me.  Which was worse for you?   EB Cannons, EB Rads, or something else?

Void Bringers can be pretty annoying.

 

 A few good AoE's wipe the trash and the bosses don't take long then. Yes they can give some annoying CC etc but they will go down if they don't have the rest of their team backing them up to break though my absorb/heals/health.

 

It isn't about just Tanking them it is about killing them before they kill me. I have damage and i am not squishy. I am also not scared to retreat to regroup when needed :P. Line of sight pulling helps also.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Gobbledegook

[Sovera]

15 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

 

Yeah, I tend to try countering Blindness with other sources of +to-hit/+perception, so the insp tray could stay closed.  My Psi/SD does use Rebirth though, so I figure if folks are dropping Ageless I could probably keep that available.  Hybrid slotted, not clicked, no Judgement, etc, etc etc.  Been trying to keep up with the norm - it wasn't until the videos started dropping that I noticed all the Ageless.

 

In fairness, the Psi/SD could probably do the run faster with a different Epic and working in Ageless, but I'm really accustomed to the way the Rebirth/Holds build plays. 🙂

 

 

Agreed.  I suspect that just as I could take one of the 4 Minute Club builds and still not come close to the same times, a more competent player could take one of my toons and get faster times even without tuning the builds.  Still though, it is interesting to give this a go on the few toons where I've made major time and FakeMoneyUnit investments.

 

And just like with the pylon build we learn from the community sharing their tricks and tips and what worked (proc bombing rad is nothing new, but, now we are showing numbers it has proven itself Fire Armor's rival) and what doesn't (as much vaunted as -res is in AoEs it really showed no improvements (unless in IG)).

 

Which is really nice y'know? I dig this community. With some extremely rare exceptions, who hide their builds so they won't be shared, everyone from build makers to market gurus is just eager to share stuff that works.

[Gobbledigook]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

 

And just like with the pylon build we learn from the community sharing their tricks and tips and what worked (proc bombing rad is nothing new, but, now we are showing numbers it has proven itself Fire Armor's rival) and what doesn't (as much vaunted as -res is in AoEs it really showed no improvements (unless in IG)).

 

Which is really nice y'know? I dig this community. With some extremely rare exceptions, who hide their builds so they won't be shared, everyone from build makers to market gurus is just eager to share stuff that works.

I always said my Rad/SS was not too far behind my Fire/Rad brute in farming.

 

Footstomp FF proc> procced Dark Obliteration> Procced Rad therapy and not a lot is left standing. >Procced Ground Zero and Cross punch are there also. Drag the bosses to the next mob group.

 

But there are controllers and blasters etc who farm very well also.

 

 

[Gobbledigook]

17 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

Baffling. Not the numbers in that quote, on a tank that makes sense.  It's the damage output.  Baffling.

I can show you a Pylon or 2 on excel or test server.

[InvaderStych]

3 hours ago, Sovera said:

Which is really nice y'know? I dig this community. With some extremely rare exceptions, who hide their builds so they won't be shared, everyone from build makers to market gurus is just eager to share stuff that works.

 

Indeed.  The Cities have always had a solid community, even when we were all +/- 17 years younger this was still one of the friendliest of gaming communities.

 

Which is good because of the massive variety possible in game; coincidentally that variety is what makes these threads interesting to follow.

 

 

2 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

I can show you a Pylon or 2 on excel or test server.

 

No need, I full on believe you, that's not the thing and I do apologize if my comments brought you to that inference.  It is more that while I am content with my tiny stable of 50s that are at or near some version of a visualized build not a single one could come close to that pylon time.  Not even remotely.

 

It's impressive to be sure, but also baffling. 😄

 

I might be able to get the blaster Trapdoor time down to sub-5 mins with a lot of practice, but I don't see either the Psi/SD or Kat/Rad scrappers closing the gap by all that much.  Not that it matters, it's just interesting in its own way.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Tried out Rad Melee - Irradiated Ground with 4 damage procs on a Wp/Rad tank.

That is amazingly broken.

[Gobbledigook]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Tried out Rad Melee - Irradiated Ground with 4 damage procs on a Wp/Rad tank.

That is amazingly broken.

Rad melee would be a bit rubbish without it though.

[brasilgringo]

12 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

I always said my Rad/SS was not too far behind my Fire/Rad brute in farming.

 

Footstomp FF proc> procced Dark Obliteration> Procced Rad therapy and not a lot is left standing. >Procced Ground Zero and Cross punch are there also. Drag the bosses to the next mob group.

 

But there are controllers and blasters etc who farm very well also.

 

 

I saw this too on my rebuilt Rad/SS/Soul - i joined a fire farm as a "hiiter" and was just wrecking stuff.  I think my first run 5.45 time on Trapdoor was more about not knowing the map, having jumping/running issues, and not having optimized attack chains.  I did see the fall-of vs a Pylon though where the ST output isn't that high and you can't suck enough End off 1 Pylon with the theft of essence proc to keep your end up (vs. groups).

[DarknessEternal]

10 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Tried out Rad Melee - Irradiated Ground with 4 damage procs on a Wp/Rad tank.

That is amazingly broken.

Doesn't Rad Melee lose in all other areas compared to SS though?  Rage+Force Feedback means no accuracy or recharge, which means more procs.

[Sovera]

MA/Rad Brute.

 

Wanted to see if Rad Armor could replace Fire Armor (in my heart). I've also wanted to level a MA Brute for a while but the lack of AoE until 26 kept me away. But with Radiation Therapy at 16 I went and gave it a try. Also it can follow the Brunker's gimmick of FF in Dragon Tail pushing the build.

 

But RT ain't Burn. It almost kinda gets there but isn't enough to stand on its own as an AoE due to pushing for no recharge despite FF procs and Beta Decay (both visibly helping though). The lack of a damage aura was also infuriating with mobs surviving on a sliver from taking five procced RT to the face but then needing to be taken down one by one.

 

Did the 'Yin test' and it took 49 minutes (record holder being Claws/Fire Brute with 38 minutes).

 

Made the character in the test server and took it to Trapdoor for 5:40.

 

Took down a pylon while at it but even with two -res procs it took 3:34. No endurance problems without even Particle Shielding. RT used on CD since it has a blazing animation and carried a -res.

 

Spoiler

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.1.2.5
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Martial Arts
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Armor
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Storm Kick -- SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprUnrFur-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprUnrFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprUnrFur-Rchg/+Regen/+End(7)
Level 1: Alpha Barrier -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), UnbGrd-Max HP%(9), GldArm-3defTpProc(11), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(11)
Level 2: Gamma Boost -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(13), Pnc-Heal(13), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(15), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(15), PrfShf-End%(17)
Level 4: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(25)
Level 6: Proton Armor -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(17), TtnCtn-ResDam(19), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19)
Level 8: Crane Kick -- SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprBrtFur-Rech/Fury%(21), SprBrtFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(23), TchofDth-Dam%(23), FrcFdb-Rechg%(25)
Level 10: Fallout Shelter -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(29)
Level 12: Focus Chi -- RctRtc-ToHit/Rchg(A), RctRtc-Pcptn(48), GssSynFr--Build%(48), RechRdx-I(49)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 16: Radiation Therapy -- Mlt-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Arm-Dam%(29), Erd-%Dam(31), Obl-%Dam(31), TchoftheN-%Dam(31), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(33)
Level 18: Crippling Axe Kick -- SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBrtFur-Dmg/Rchg(33), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), UndDfn-Rchg/EndRdx(34), Hct-Dam%(34), AchHee-ResDeb%(34)
Level 20: Beta Decay -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Fly -- WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx(A)
Level 24: Evasive Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Dragon's Tail -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(37), Obl-%Dam(37), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), FrcFdb-Rechg%(39)
Level 28: Particle Shielding -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(39), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(40), Prv-Heal/Rchg(40), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(40), Prv-Absorb%(42)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Ground Zero -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(43), ScrDrv-Dam%(43), TchofLadG-%Dam(45), Obl-%Dam(45), Erd-%Dam(45)
Level 38: Focused Accuracy -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(36), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(36), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(36), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(47), AdjTrg-Rchg(47)
Level 41: Tough -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(46), TtnCtn-ResDam(46), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 44: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(42), Rct-ResDam%(48)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 49: Superior Conditioning -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(42)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 22: Afterburner
------------

 

 

Overall not a spectacular performance but its sturdy and safe. It may indeed contend with Fire Armor since two damaging AoEs in the secondary augments what the primary brings and it can be pretty bursty. This particular version got the mini nukes back fast thanks to the FF in the AoE.

 

I'm intrigued enough to consider other combos, even Scrapper. I'm thinking an EM/Rad Scrapper as a high end build, or Claws/Rad Rad that exemplars better. The Claws would have a FF proc to help the recharge and a much stronger AoE to clean up what survives RT + GZ.

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by Sovera

[Black_Assassin]

On 2/4/2022 at 10:47 AM, Gobbledegook said:

Yes

That could be the problem?

 

Never thought about that 😛

 

I tried it without Cj, didn't make a big difference really. One time it took me nearly 20 seconds just to get it to jump down a hole lol. Just me i think i do seem to struggle in tunnels nowadays. shame it wasn't a city test with nice open spaces 😛 as this test is more of a mobility test as much as a clear mob test.

 

 

I find it almost impossible to control airborne movement (excluding flight) if i dont have CJ. Its just pure guesswork at that stage

[Bill Z Bubba]

9 hours ago, DarknessEternal said:

Doesn't Rad Melee lose in all other areas compared to SS though?  Rage+Force Feedback means no accuracy or recharge, which means more procs.

 

No clue. Others in this thread will know better than I. I'm only speaking to Irradiated Ground itself and how it attempts to fire off every proc every 5 seconds due to how it refreshes the patch.

 

When your damage aura alone is out-damaging your single target attack chain, something is frelled.

[Gobbledigook]

21 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

No clue. Others in this thread will know better than I. I'm only speaking to Irradiated Ground itself and how it attempts to fire off every proc every 5 seconds due to how it refreshes the patch.

 

When your damage aura alone is out-damaging your single target attack chain, something is frelled.

Is it? even when you can proc those single target attacks also. It is good but i wouldn't change it. It's not exactly game breaking.

 

Bio/Rad  work well together though. That was my first Bio Tanker combo.