Focused Feedback: Travel Power Updates (Build 1)

[Eden]

After having taken some time to play around with the new flight options, it feels a little clunky to me; but, I strongly appreciate the overall design direction.

 

Bundling Afterburner into Fly is a pretty cool thing, but the heavy cooldown on it feels a tad off putting. Would it be possible to have Afterburner activate the same way as the improved jump on the new Superspeed? i.e., after X seconds of continual flight, the Afterburner speed boost is applied?

 

Evasive Maneuvers is a neat power, but it has quite an endurance cost for what it offers. It also feels as though it is somewhat overlapping with the new (and very cool) ability to run Hover + Fly at the same time. Seeing as this power exclusively improves the other flying abilities, design wise it might be nice to see it as an auto power that, if Hover was active would provide the additional movement speed; if Fly (and Group fly?) was active would provide the increased control of movement; and then perhaps an adjustment to to the +res it offers to compensate for it being auto. Alternatively, taking the power could provide 2 different powers (or an always on active aspect of the toggle)- one auto which had the +flight speed and +movement control respectively that always remained on, and then one power which could be activated for a moderate amount of endurance to provide the additional +res +def.

 

Regardless, thanks for working on the travel powers. 🙂

[Tigraine]

2 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

You should not be able to run any of these powers while shape shifted.

 

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

I don't think that's what he meant, but it's kind of a non-issue either way.

 

ScariSai is right, that's not what I was asking.  More curious how tray-swapping will work when changing forms from human with one of these powers active; will there be any glitching/interference preventing trays from coming up, overwriting each other since they use the same flags, etc.?

[Infinitum]

2 hours ago, Troo said:

and now have to use 3 powers for what 2 did before..

That is demonstrably untrue in every way.

 

2 hours ago, Troo said:

I also, again, think folks who were part of the closed testing should not be coming to the forum and piling on folks seeing this for the first time.

Just let folks post their concerns and experience. There is a official team to address them.

This is also unfounded - there is no piling on - just accurate numbers before and after - demonstrable facts.

 

Concerns that arent based on facts which are testable and provable need to be set straight, and any concerns not based on thoughtful testing dont deserve the pixels representing the misguided points.

 

Its proven than Old Fly+AB is < new Fly+EvM. Any way you slice it 

 

2 toggles vs two toggles the new version comes out on top.  I still dont understand where the "you have to have three picks to equal the live version performance" comes from.

 

Because at two picks the beta version exceeds the live version - you get AB for free and it GREATLY exceeds live version performance.

 

So I'll leave it at that until you can post numbers detailing proof of that claim.

[Tigraine]

4 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

you get AB for free and it GREATLY exceeds live version performance.

 

Except in duration.  And defense.  Two things people relied on.

[Infinitum]

Just now, Tigraine said:

 

Except in duration.  And defense.  Two things people relied on.

Duration - Fly+EvM is as long as you allow it to run.

 

As far as the defense - there are better oh crap buttons that don't remove you from combat.

[Doc_Scorpion]

1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

I seem to be able to customize Afterburner. Can you try again after a zone or after re-logging? It seems that existing builds might need a zone or login to get the power to show everywhere (same seems to apply if you swap builds, at least the first time you do.)

<Rueful grin>

Yep, that's kinda what happened...  When I first loaded the character, I zoned Ouro->Atlas and customized Flight (because Afterburner did not appear in the menu)...  I assumed that also should have customized Afterburner.  (And you know what "assume" means!)  When I logged in just now, she was in Talos, I went to Steel, and there was Afterburner in the tailor's menu. 

And it customized just fine.

That being said, if the opportunity arises, a Minimal FX option for Afterburner would be nice.  Not necessary, but nice.

[Doc_Scorpion]

2 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

Hover's animation trumps both Fly's  and Afterburner's animations.  It doesn't matter in what order you turn them on/off, or have them in a bind or macro, the Hover animation always wins.  Great for "Magneto Flight" fans, not so awesome for those who prefer it the other way 'round.

Yup.  And Hover's fly style (suddenly stopping and spilling your drink) also trumps Fly's (gradual slow-down and stop).

[Tigraine]

1 hour ago, Infinitum said:

As far as the defense - there are better oh crap buttons that don't remove you from combat.

 

That's your opinion.  And what's wrong with an "oh crap" button that removes you from combat?

[Seldom]

17 hours ago, GM Arcanum said:

Group Fly

• This power now applies to all pets regardless of their distance from the caster
• No longer inaccurately claims it applies -Acc

 

Thank you very much for this. I will admit this power only earns a place in my pet-centric builds, but even then it was a problem trying to keep them at a distance where they wouldn't fall out, then trail along below attracting unwanted aggro.

 

That said, would you consider making an option that would limit group flight to a character and its summons, so as not to effect other players?

Many powers do not work while flying, and many players are not comfortable controlling characters in flight, particularly during missions/combat.

Flight on otherwise grounded pets is extremely useful for layered mission rooms to keep them from running through indirect pathing and getting lost, in certain raid like the Mothership and Hamidon, and in outdoor missions when trying to pass over certain areas without alerting undue attention. (Also for transporting pets across zones)

 

If it were an option, it could then also be turned back on for the odd moment where non-flying teammates needed a lift, but wouldn't interfere when it didn't need to. I love what this power brings for pets, but as mentioned earlier is a sore spot foisted on team-members as a result, few of whom had nullified it via the gull.

 

Additional ask: could group flight grant fast flight to pets? They often fall behind not just due to AI but also because they lack the +flyspeed of things like swift and enhancements

Edited March 14, 2021 by Barneysaurus

[Elthenar]

27 minutes ago, Barneysaurus said:

 

Thank you very much for this. I will admit this power only earns a place in my pet-centric builds, but even then it was a problem trying to keep them at a distance where they wouldn't fall out, then trail along below attracting unwanted aggro.

 

That said, would you consider making an option that would limit group flight to a character and its summons, so as not to effect other players?

Many powers do not work while flying, and many players are not comfortable controlling characters in flight, particularly during missions/combat.

Flight on otherwise grounded pets is extremely useful for layered mission rooms to keep them from running through indirect pathing and getting lost, in certain raid like the Mothership and Hamidon, and in outdoor missions when trying to pass over certain areas without alerting undue attention. (Also for transporting pets across zones)

 

If it were an option, it could then also be turned back on for the odd moment where non-flying teammates needed a lift, but wouldn't interfere when it didn't need to. I love what this power brings for pets, but as mentioned earlier is a sore spot foisted on team-members as a result, full of whom had nullified it via the gull.

 

Additional ask: could group flight grant fast flight to pets? They often fall behind not just due to AI but also because they lack the +flyspeed of things like swift and enhancements

 

 

I made the same request on the previous page. Even if it was just a Null the Gull option, it would be fantastic beyond measure. Same with Team Teleport.

 

 

And honestly, who needs a lift anymore? Even a brand new player to home coming can get ninja run and sprint, that covers most bases, jump pack covers most everything else. Most people can simply buy a jet pack if they really need flight. I'd argue that 99.9% of the people who would use group flight or team teleport will be MM's. Or maybe a controller/SoA with ground based pets.  Optimizing the powers for them would be a big QoL upgrade for everyone.

 

 

Do the flight speed enhancements in Group Fly not apply to the pets? That would be.....unfortunate.

[Seldom]

2 minutes ago, Elthenar said:

 

 

I made the same request on the previous page. Even if it was just a Null the Gull option, it would be fantastic beyond measure. Same with Team Teleport.

 

 

And honestly, who needs a lift anymore? Even a brand new player to home coming can get ninja run and sprint, that covers most bases, jump pack covers most everything else. Most people can simply buy a jet pack if they really need flight. I'd argue that 99.9% of the people who would use group flight or team teleport will be MM's. Or maybe a controller/SoA with ground based pets.  Optimizing the powers for them would be a big QoL upgrade for everyone.

 

 

Do the flight speed enhancements in Group Fly not apply to the pets? That would be.....unfortunate.

Glad to know others were thinking of this as well!

 

As for pet flight: I was testing this with flight+hover+group flight on my mastermind on Brainstorm, she easily left her pets in the dust, to the point so far they had to 'respawn'... which they did far below in the ground. They then flew up to meet her, but eventually get left behind again. Since there is no possible way beyond things like speed boost to assist with pet flight speed, and using the rest of the flight pool already puts you far faster than just the 'group fly' speed the pets receive, I wonder if the group flight speed for pets could be a the cap since they can't keep up otherwise, and have other things tying them to their summons' location

[Troo]

2 hours ago, Infinitum said:

That is demonstrably untrue in every way.

 

No, sorry it is not.

That you can't see it or don't want to see it is your problem.

 

---------

By the way, whomever is checking things, using multiple travel powers appeared to be glitchy with occasional stutters. Could just be beta or that things aren't polished.

I'll guess this will get cleaned up before hitting live.

[Troo]

4 hours ago, Bopper said:

You left off new Afterburner grants 47.775% strength to fly speed, which will buff your swift, fly and evasive maneuvers. Current Afterburner grants no buff to fly speeds, only increases the fly speed cap.

 

Unfortunately, folks are posting their concerns without substantial play testing. If there was any concern over the performance of new Fly versus current fly, they would see this is a buff almost all the way around.

 

The only legitimate concern I've seen in regards to changes is the fact old Afterburner always gives you a defense buff, although it is OAS. Now you only get defense out of combat with evasive maneuvers, but you are not stuck with OAS with AB or EM.

 

Since people have only had today. I think they are doing just fine posting concerns and reporting issues.

 

I've gotten a boost in speed using current Afterburner. (Could be the unresistable 1.0 max fly speed that it grants 100% of the time it is on for as long as desired)

 

Losing the defense boost in combat, yeah that will break some playstyles.

 

As someone who uses two power trays with a controller, I'm pretty tight on power tray slots and buttons. Making two previous powers into three in not desirable.

[Bopper]

12 minutes ago, Troo said:

Making two previous powers into three in not desirable

Can you explain what you're talking about? I know we're talking about Fly and Evasive Maneuvers, but what is the 3rd power? Is it Afterburner? If so, what is it providing that can't be achieved already?

[Elthenar]

39 minutes ago, Barneysaurus said:

Glad to know others were thinking of this as well!

 

As for pet flight: I was testing this with flight+hover+group flight on my mastermind on Brainstorm, she easily left her pets in the dust, to the point so far they had to 'respawn'... which they did far below in the ground. They then flew up to meet her, but eventually get left behind again. Since there is no possible way beyond things like speed boost to assist with pet flight speed, and using the rest of the flight pool already puts you far faster than just the 'group fly' speed the pets receive, I wonder if the group flight speed for pets could be a the cap since they can't keep up otherwise, and have other things tying them to their summons' location

 

 

I tested it. Group fly alone does make them hit the cap. Pets apparently top out at 58.63 which Group Fly can get them to unenhanced at 50.

 

If you are just traveling, it can work. The fact that they keep fly regardless of distance should help keep them in and air and get them to your final position quicker than before. Not sure if it's worth the cost in powers taken just for that.

 

The real kicker is how limited it will be in a combat use.  There remains the matter of griefing other players. Even solo, it has a lengthy activation time and an absolutely unforgiving endurance cost. MM's already tend to have endurance problems, Adding in a .65/s power and having it cost 3 total powers to do it will be a deal breaker for the vast majority of builds.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Elthenar

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

 

No, sorry it is not.

That you can't see it or don't want to see it is your problem.

 

---------

By the way, whomever is checking things, using multiple travel powers appeared to be glitchy with occasional stutters. Could just be beta or that things aren't polished.

I'll guess this will get cleaned up before hitting live.

Fly+EvM > live Fly+AB

 

The third power AB isnt like the old AB - its now a bonus that Exceeds Fly+EvM which also by itself exceeds live Fly+AB

 

There is no mythical third power - you have to activate to achieve live performance - because you are already exceeding live performance with the equivalent options of Fly+EvM.

 

Unless You can post actual numbers showing this to be incorrect, your argument and gripe about this is baseless.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Infinitum

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Myrmidon said:

 

After reading through this thread, I realize that it has been some while since I was in school so I am genuinely curious. They still teach basic Mathematics in school, yes?  Those numbers do look pretty clear.

As someone who has 48 out of 50 active characters with all three flight powers Hover Flight and AB, the beta version is superior in every way - and thats before the bonus of the free power of AB which basically gives you "Pissed off Thor" flight to save the day in small but powerful bursts.

 

If there was anything wrong with this change I would be the first to gripe about it, but the numbers prove it to be nothing but a net gain ANY.  WAY. YOU. SLICE. IT.

[TerminusEst13]

Love the changes to the travel powers.

 

As one of the few people that took Teleport on a character, everything feels faster and more responsive.

I kind of want to be selfish and ask for a bit more range or a bit shorter time before Teleport can be activated again? I think Teleport should go loooooooong distances by default, especially if Fly can now go super-nyoom and Super Jump can get infinite height.

 

But hey, even if this just ends up going live, it's neet.

[Wavicle]

Mostly I like it, but:

 

1. I agree with was said before, it's pretty bad, thematically, to not have a pool power called Invisibility. Can you eliminate the name Stealth instead and call the remaining toggle Invisibility?

 

2. I don't understand the point of Double Jump if it really does just duplicate the Jump Pack? Am I missing something?

[Wavicle]

oh, and:

 

3. The Hover animation thing is a pretty serious problem for a game that is all about how we look. I understand the HC team is trying to make the best version of the game they can. Absolutely how things look needs to be at the top of the list of design priorities.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Wavicle

[Cidri]

17 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

1. Slash command to cut out having to travel and just *nullify* (heh) being affected by buffs, in case you're somewhere it's not really convenient to duck out for a couple minutes to run down and talk to the bird.  (MSR, task force, etc.)

 

2. Make global "Do not let external movement buffs affect me" options.

 

Personally, I do like the speed buff from Speed boost but not the flight from Group Fly. At the moment, these two are the same option with Null the Gull. As Group Fly is likely to become much more common, could these be made two separate options with the gull?

[GM Lines]

5 minutes ago, Cidri said:

 

Personally, I do like the speed buff from Speed boost but not the flight from Group Fly. At the moment, these two are the same option with Null the Gull. As Group Fly is likely to become much more common, could these be made two separate options with the gull?

 

They are separate options:

[Greycat]

8 hours ago, Elthenar said:

 A question about Masterminds and the Group Fly power. Would it be easy to add some method of making Group Fly, and by extension Team Teleport, affect only you and your pets?

 

Even with Null the Gull to let people opt out, whenever I use Group Fly on a team it hits someone and they complain. The option to take that decision on myself would be an absolute godsend for a MM player.

I feel like I mentioned or suggested something like that earlier in the thread.. but not going through all these pages (or my posts, I was a bit chatty) to find out :)

 

And yeah. For someone like me, Null the Gull would by "ok, this is my COH time for the day," running 100+ characters down to not be affected by group fly... and I know I'm not the only altaholic.  Better to have the option on the MM's side (and make sure they know about it!) to say "Just make this affect my pets." (Or make it a toggle or a slash command... going either direction, since if I'm getting hit with group fly, say, on an MSR raid, being able to type in something like /grouptravelaffected 0 instead of leaving it, running down to PD (since, no, I don't have it on LRT on all my characters, even the 50s,) hitting null and running back, would be great.)

Edited March 14, 2021 by Greycat

[Cidri]

15 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

...the afterburner effect should be renamed to 'short burst of speed that is incompatible with long range travel'.

This is exactly what an afterburner is IRL. The name in its current utility annoyed me quite a bit before i got used to i. The current afterburner ought to be named something like  "Tailwind". I am not suggesting these names in the patch, where the patched Afterburner does exactly what an afterburner ought to do. That said, I am very unlikely to ever pick up the new afterburner, especially if it keeps the annoying FX. This change will force me to make respecs on about a hundred different toons. 😮

Edited March 14, 2021 by Cidri
language

[Nayeh]

Does Hover and Mystic Flight stack though?