Discussion: Improvements to the Warriors

[Techwright]

6 hours ago, TemporalVileTerror said:

Impervium-reinforced talsorian blades?

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Weapon_Customization#Historical

 

Yeah, I've known of special metals in the game already, and I used the well-known claws just to make the point.   What I was really suggesting was something previously unknown and rare, or at least forgotten knowledge rediscovered.

[Piecemeal]

10 hours ago, Techwright said:

That line gave me a thought towards one possible storyline.

 

What if the Warriors got wind of a new metal, or a new metalworking technique, one capable of creating bladed weapons virtually indestructible?  Their efforts to acquire and master this to forge powerful, natural weapons might shake things up in their path to possess it, necessitating a hero response (or a villain response to get to the mcguffin first).    Sort of like adamantium claws, if you will, but materials within the Paragon universe, rather than the Marvel one.  This way, they increase their power and performance without sacrificing to magic, science, or in a sense even to technology.  The metal or alloy may be said to have special properties: stronger, lighter, even building an electrical charge from frictional usage.  This could give reason for stronger hits, faster moves, or the occasional electrical discharge.

 

You read my mind - I had already slated to concept out a Forgemaster unit!

[Arbegla]

1 hour ago, Piecemeal said:

 

You read my mind - I had already slated to concept out a Forgemaster unit!

 

You mean more temp powers and badges? 😄

[Herotu]

Did greeks have laurel wreaths for being champions?

 

Perhaps the big boss secretly has that medusa hair, that's why they've garnered all this fanatical support? Maybe there's a room of statues somewhere...?

 

I know nothing about the group, as you can see.

[Likara]

11 hours ago, Techwright said:

 

Yeah, I've known of special metals in the game already, and I used the well-known claws just to make the point.   What I was really suggesting was something previously unknown and rare, or at least forgotten knowledge rediscovered.

Impervium is already supposed to be the strongest metal in the Universe, with the old Paragon devs planning to have even Battalion use. I can get behind a new way to process, temper and shape it, but lets not go adding even stronger stuff into the mix, please

[GM Impervium]

2 hours ago, Ritikesh said:

Impervium is already supposed to be the strongest metal in the Universe, with the old Paragon devs planning to have even Battalion use. I can get behind a new way to process, temper and shape it, but lets not go adding even stronger stuff into the mix, please

 

I too would prefer to not become 2nd best!

[oedipus_tex]

On 3/17/2021 at 7:41 PM, EmperorSteele said:

Ask and Ye Shall Receive

(Based mostly around @Aberrant's models with my own ideas from before thrown in)

 

 

I like that you specifically included the bandana and the inclusion of sneakers.

 

For some more inspiration, the late 70s and early 80s were rife with what I think of as "Crayola colors." Extreme reds (in the clothes, the lipstick) absolutely awful pinks (for everyone), super solid whites (shoes, socks). Marks-a-lot blue eyeshadows. Retina-burning neons. The era was a reaction to the muddy avocado tones of the 70s (itself a reaction to the era previous).

 

[oedipus_tex]

Even though it's a completely different era in style terms, if you found some way to incorporate 1980s Eartha Kitt into the game I'd cherish you hard. It seems at least somewhat relevant since she was riffing on her Catwoman fame.

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by oedipus_tex

[BZRKR]

Welp. Now we need arm capes in the game.

 

@oedipus_tex I hope you're happy 🙂

Edited March 19, 2021 by BZRKR

[starro]

I like checking out this thread every couple of days.  I want all of these ideas. 😛 

What was going on in Paragon City in 1985?

Edited March 19, 2021 by duane

[Coyote]

17 hours ago, GM Impervium said:

 

I too would prefer to not become 2nd best!

 

Well, Enchanted Impervium is, IMO, already #1. I mean, it's like Impervium, but enchanted.
And since Warriors use some magical weapon artifacts, it would be reasonable for them to focus on it.

[Herotu]

3 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

I like that you specifically included the bandana and the inclusion of sneakers.

 

For some more inspiration, the late 70s and early 80s were rife with what I think of as "Crayola colors." Extreme reds (in the clothes, the lipstick) absolutely awful pinks (for everyone), super solid whites (shoes, socks). Marks-a-lot blue eyeshadows. Retina-burning neons. The era was a reaction to the muddy avocado tones of the 70s (itself a reaction to the era previous).

 

https://juiceboxinteractive.com/blog/color/

[DougGraves]

The warriors movie is based on a charismatic gang leader trying to unite the gangs.  They are killed and the warriors have to flee back through the city and other gangs territory.

 

And Piecemeal does not want another civil war in a gang.

 

So let's take the original idea and put it into the game.  The Warriors are trying to organize the gangs to stop fighting one another.  There are different factions in the Warriors, but the goal is unity. 

 

Start with the Skulls Arc theme - they claim to be giving people powers to protect themselves.  The Warriors want to train people to protect themselves - no death cult and on dyne needed.  They may be competing with the Skulls and Trolls to recruit people, or trying to recruit Skulls and Trolls into an alliance.

 

The Warriors are trying to find a leader to unite them.  Since they look for peak human performance, they hold an Olympics for it.  I would make the Olympics part of the story, but not do missions of the Olympics.  The Freakshow got the Freakolympics idea from the Warriors.

 

But the Warriors have an enemy.  A villain group that opposes them.  This is probably the Freaks based on their rivalry in Talos.  Warriors want human improvement, the freaks want to just replace the human with technology.

[dtjunkie]

Here's how I would fantasy book the Warriors.

 

The Odysseus of myth was known for being a very charismatic speaker and very sly. With the Warrior's focus on enhancing human capabilities to the utmost, I can see him building a money making empire based on promising gullible people that he will help them achieve their utmost potential. I'm envisioning he'd come up with a program focused on a fad workout regime, dietary supplements, and a straight edge lifestyle. His organization (cult/pyramid scheme) would have multiple levels (think the different color belts in martial arts or like the different Scientology levels), and the abilities of his followers would get stronger as they moved up in the organization. He'd naturally (see what I did there?) become the owner of Future Dynamics (the Natural Store) and would be seeking to drive the other stores out of business. He would be a little bit like Countess Crey... you know he's up to no good, but he's always one step ahead of the law. Instead of recruiting famous actors, he'd recruit famous supes (of natural origin).

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by dtjunkie

[Darmian]

Can we have the Warriors build a giant wooden horse somewhere?  You know, for old times' sake? A different, very much so, type of GM.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Darmian

[Kai Moon]

As I write this, another level 20-29 enemy design, the Zoombie, has gone back to the drawing board, again.

 

For all the tweaks and reworks, are Zoombies interesting, beyond solo badgers, to the player base in general? Quantifiably, no. Never a peep about that arc on /lfg. There's no interest.

 

Given those circumstances, I'm skeptical of retuning existing level 20-29 content. Nobody wants it to end with Warriors becoming like Zoombies - content to either skip or solo, because subjecting mid-level randos from /lfg to it would be rude.

 

Here's how to avoid that.

 

* DO go for cosmetic reworks. The old default weapons look just as low-poly and monochrome on Warriors as they do on us.

* DON'T make new costume parts NPC only. NPCs may be the fully voice acted stars of certain MMOs, but player designs should come first on CoH.

* DO keep Warriors under level 30 strictly smashing/lethal with limited ranged attacks. Some defense sets don't get the tools to deal with anything else until higher levels.

* DON'T power creep existing content. Warrior arcs are tuned about right for level 20-29. Easier than Yin and Citadel, fewer reward merits.

* DO add new smashing+lethal melee powers for variety. Spears in particular would be mechanically and thematically on point. (Tee hee.)

* DON'T add defense powers to NPCs. They don't make the gameplay more challenging. They just make us press the same buttons more times.

[Darmian]

33 minutes ago, Rigel Kent said:

Never a peep about that arc on /lfg. There's no interest.

Really?  Seen a few LFGs for it.  About as many as you see for any arc that isn't a TF/SF/Incarnate Trial/Patron Arc or any number of farms. (And that last one sadly outnumbers literally everything else combined)

Edited March 21, 2021 by Darmian

[Herotu]

On 3/20/2021 at 10:59 PM, dtjunkie said:

Here's how I would fantasy book the Warriors.

 

The Odysseus of myth was known for being a very charismatic speaker and very sly. With the Warrior's focus on enhancing human capabilities to the utmost, I can see him building a money making empire based on promising gullible people that he will help them achieve their utmost potential. I'm envisioning he'd come up with a program focused on a fad workout regime, dietary supplements, and a straight edge lifestyle. His organization (cult/pyramid scheme) would have multiple levels (think the different color belts in martial arts or like the different Scientology levels), and the abilities of his followers would get stronger as they moved up in the organization. He'd naturally (see what I did there?) become the owner of Future Dynamics (the Natural Store) and would be seeking to drive the other stores out of business. He would be a little bit like Countess Crey... you know he's up to no good, but he's always one step ahead of the law. Instead of recruiting famous actors, he'd recruit famous supes (of natural origin).

 

I'd encourage anybody interested in creating a self-styled "Odysseus" to take influence from the ancient myths regarding him as they provide the names of his friends, rivals, enemies, as well as MUCH potential fodder for story arcs.
The wiki says of Odysseus, " He is most famous for his nostos, or "homecoming", which took him ten eventful years "

It's fate, then? Isn't it? Density! -note- I think it's not just a literal homecoming, it also seems to be meant as a psychological recovery from the horrors of war and a return to normal, civilian life.

 

When Helen is abducted, Menelaus calls upon the other suitors to honour their oaths and help him to retrieve her, an attempt that leads to the Trojan War. Odysseus tries to avoid it by feigning lunacy, as an oracle had prophesied a long-delayed return home for him if he went. He hooks a donkey and an ox to his plow (as they have different stride lengths, hindering the efficiency of the plow) and (some modern sources add) starts sowing his fields with salt. Palamedes, at the behest of Menelaus' brother Agamemnon, seeks to disprove Odysseus' madness and places Telemachus, Odysseus' infant son, in front of the plow. Odysseus veers the plow away from his son, thus exposing his stratagem.^[24] Odysseus holds a grudge against Palamedes during the war for dragging him away from his home.

 

Odysseus and other envoys of Agamemnon travel to Scyros to recruit Achilles because of a prophecy that Troy could not be taken without him. By most accounts, Thetis, Achilles' mother, disguises the youth as a woman to hide him from the recruiters because an oracle had predicted that Achilles would either live a long uneventful life or achieve everlasting glory while dying young. Odysseus cleverly discovers which among the women before him is Achilles when the youth is the only one of them to show interest in examining the weapons hidden among an array of adornment gifts for the daughters of their host. Odysseus arranges further for the sounding of a battle horn, which prompts Achilles to clutch a weapon and show his trained disposition. With his disguise foiled, he is exposed and joins Agamemnon's call to arms among the Hellenes.^[25]

 

As you can see, Oracles provide MUCH motivation for the crackpot adventures had by the ancient greek mythological characters. The two great motivations for humans are greed and fear - Oracles provide the potential for both. Oracle this, Oracle that, warnings and portents galore and all without a SHRED of EVIDENCE! Perfect rationale for even the most heinous of crimes! 
 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Herotu

[Hew]

21 hours ago, Darmian said:

Can we have the Warriors build a giant wooden horse somewhere?  You know, for old times' sake? A different, very much so, type of GM.

Why does the horse have to be... wooden?

 

Trojan horses come in all different flavors...

[twozerofoxtrot]

3 hours ago, Hew said:

Trojan horses come in all different flavors...

 

Can't tell if double entendre or reference to malware, but I like it either way.

 

Though I would imagine it would be the Warriors themselves suffering from the Trojan horse if the latter. The don't seem very digitally savvy, as a group. 

 

I'd hate to be David Hill's IT support.

[twozerofoxtrot]

On 3/20/2021 at 5:03 AM, Herotu said:

https://juiceboxinteractive.com/blog/color/

 

 

Literally inspiring.

 

I can't wait to roll my Starburst-colored superhero: "Miami Powersuit Pacman."

[oedipus_tex]

It would be hilarious and completely on message to have groups of Warriors trapped in other zones trying to run for the metro stations.

[Crasical]

Also, something I just found in game: The Envoy of Shadows arc starts with the Warriors stealing a demonic tome from the Circle of Thorns, and accidentally unleashing something they can't control.

Warriors are not great mages; and they DO canonically loot stuff from the CoT.

[Stunticon_Mechanic]

The Wharf Rats!!!! The nautical theme, colors, and weapons are fucking great. I FREAKING LOVE IT. THIS GETS MY VOTE TEN TIMES OVER!!!

Edited March 22, 2021 by Stunticon_Mechanic

[TemporalVileTerror]

This strikes me as a potential group who are working with the Sea Witch.