Focused Feedback: Travel Power Updates (FLY POOL) - Build 2

[zenblack]

2 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

Wouldn't it be fair to test short, medium and long range options?

I mean, short range you sometimes have things where it may not be technically faster to teleport, but most people just turn on Run and Sprint of choice to go a couple hundred feet in a congested area while Flight and SJ just hopped over the apartment building in Praetoria? And SS cursed as it was a bit too tight to really leverage its speed?

 

Middle ground in most zones at about a mile of travel from SG portals, SS and SJ are usually there before some people have even zoned in while flight and TP are getting there.

 

Then you have the far end in a long range area with few ground areas where SS is going "TG I bought a raptor pack for the Shadow Shadow" and SJ is going "I can make it with some effort, but I hope I don't miss and have to start over" and Fly is cruising along at max speed, low issues and Teleport can get there fastest, but if you aren't slotted well can actually run out of endurance.

 

Yes, go ahead and test and report back anything you find.

[Glacier Peak]

39 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

Wouldn't it be fair to test short, medium and long range options?

I mean, short range you sometimes have things where it may not be technically faster to teleport, but most people just turn on Run and Sprint of choice to go a couple hundred feet in a congested area while Flight and SJ just hopped over the apartment building in Praetoria? And SS cursed as it was a bit too tight to really leverage its speed?

 

Middle ground in most zones at about a mile of travel from SG portals, SS and SJ are usually there before some people have even zoned in while flight and TP are getting there.

 

Then you have the far end in a long range area with few ground areas where SS is going "TG I bought a raptor pack for the Shadow Shadow" and SJ is going "I can make it with some effort, but I hope I don't miss and have to start over" and Fly is cruising along at max speed, low issues and Teleport can get there fastest, but if you aren't slotted well can actually run out of endurance.

It is indeed fair and rather important to test the changes on beta for travel power (specifically Fly pool) updates to provide feedback to the HC team.

 

That being said, I did a rather rudimentary test in the Build 1 travel power thread somewhat based on your parameters (in fact based on your post in that thread):

 

Edit: I'll just post my original results here:

 

"I designed some simple testing to come up with evidence to demonstrate speed similarities and disparities, with a focus on extreme/outlier situations. I used the following methodology:

 

Three courses: Peregrine Island (Bottom to Top), Nerva Archipelago (Bottom to Top), Grandville (Blackline Helicopter to red windows at the top of W.E.B./Tangle Tower).

 

These locations were selected due to their simplicity, extreme distance, and direction – no missions take you to these locations, no badges to go to or from, no enemies to fight, and in the case of the Grandville course, no reason to get to the red window near the top of the tower (unless you want to jump off maybe?) – all that to say that they are outliers because the way this game exists on Homecoming, with the combination of using travel powers, tram lines or ferries, super group bases or long range teleport, LFG tab, or my favorite, either of the two mission teleporter powers – players ***are given the ability*** to get to anywhere in such a short amount of time that it doesn’t require more than two minutes to go from one place in the game, to anywhere else. I dare you to prove me wrong! (And please post your methodology so I can verify your results, just like you can test mine!). It is important to add that not all players are capable of utilizing the mechanics of the game to the fullest extent possible, due to any number of reasons, therefore, these numbers should be understood to be outliers, extreme examples, not examples of routine gameplay.

 

Each course is run three times with each power for an average. Course layouts are posted as images below. Each run is done with only the specific travel power active; i.e., Super Speed only, Super Jump only, Fly only. Results posted in the table below. Each power is at its cap during testing. For the Grandville course, the routes for Super Speed and Super Jump use whichever structure allows for quickest ascent – (north ward entrance to north ward lift 1, to the cabling all the way up was my fastest method for SS at least). One interesting thing on the Peregrine Island with Afterburner runs, I was able to activate Afterburner TWICE during these journeys.

 

If anything, this data should indicate how speed is just one aspect of travel utility – verticality is also an aspect that, in the case of the Grandville course, makes a lot of difference. Lastly, this testing required approximately two hours of investment on the beta server to conduct."

 

RESULTS: It took less than two minutes in extreme cases to get to the end of any of these outlier courses. Combining the new travel speed caps with the already immense ease of travel using other means (tram/black helio/ferry, SG base, Ouroborus, portals, mission transporter(s), team tps, etc.) makes getting anywhere in this game trivial.

 

Power/Course	Peregrine Island (2.72 miles)	Nerva Archipelago (1.96 miles)	Grandville (0.83 miles)
Super Speed	1 minute, 22 seconds	59 seconds	1 minute, 35 seconds
Super Jump	1 minute, 36 seconds	1 minute, 10 seconds	58 seconds
Fly	1 minute, 50 seconds	1 minute, 20 seconds	34 seconds
Fly w/Afterburner	1 minute, 41 seconds	1 minute, 15 seconds	28 seconds

 

 

          

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Glacier Peak

[America's Angel]

Just tested it on beta. You can now get the gold medals on both ski slopes just using Flight+Evasive Manuevers+Afterburner.

[Zepp]

4 hours ago, America's Angel said:

Just tested it on beta. You can now get the gold medals on both ski slopes just using Flight+Evasive Manuevers+Afterburner.

I got the gold medals on both ski slopes on live using Fly+Afterburner... the long course, however, did require a perfect run to pull it off.

[QuiJon]

On 3/24/2021 at 3:22 PM, InvaderStych said:

If we balanced all of the travel powers to the same speed cap, then by the metric above (time to mission door), Flight would win every time simply via obstacle avoidance.

I dont know that anyone is saying they should all have the same speed cap. I at least am saying the balance should be not about percieved ease of use or safety, but for what they are TRAVEL powers. And in this way they are not equal on this new system. Fly was originally slower yes, alot slower. it ran about 35mph behind super speed. And as such was barely taken unless people only wanted to go for a theme, in which case they were being punished for wanting to do so. 

The Devs saw this and gave the flight pool afterburner. A toggle, which made you only effect yourself, but boosted fly to be about 10mph behind SS run cap (when you figure most people didnt full slot it for speed about 85-86mph was about the standard) and in this case fliers were now getting to doors at speeds just a few seconds behind runners. So IMO balanced though with much more investment. These changes boost running to 120mph all the time, gives runners a means to avoid the obstacles that were always said to be the down side of running, even though they have ben avoidable with cheap and free powers from the P2W vendor for ages now, and Afterburner the power that was to be the equalizer at closes now only gets you to within 18mph of speed but also toggles off every 30 seconds for 1 minute dropping fliers back down to being almost 35 MPH behind flight again until it cycles back up. 

On 3/24/2021 at 3:32 PM, Doc_Scorpion said:

Individual flavors, hands down.  (So long as no individual power is uniquely disadvantaged other than those inherent to the power...  E.G. Teleport and SS.)

To me no, i want travel powers to all work as easily as possible and allow all players to get from point a to b in the roughly same amount of time. I do not care if you want your SS to be flash like and get you there faster then anyone else. I can point out just as many fliers in comics capable of flash level speeds, i should not be inherently disadvantages because my character wants to fly. They are travel powers, utilities, they should have equal worth for what their intention is in the game mechanic and that is to get  you around a zone.

On 3/24/2021 at 3:45 PM, Sovera said:

- Second is that I'm hearing a lot about feels and not enough about testing. There were people who actually tested the travel powers and reported their findings: in a complete straight line with absolutely nothing in the way and over a long enough distance that 30 seconds was not enough to reach then Fly reached the door 20 seconds after SS. In places with detours (if I recall correctly they tested in Grandville or something?) and shorter distances Fly outpaced the others.

 

So we need less spreadsheet navel gazing and more 'I went to X map, tested, and Fly is unacceptably slow according to these numbers'

So how about this, i started playing this game week 1 in 2004, and up until afterburner was added and put me at about 10mph slower then a Speedster fly was unacceptably slow in comparison with getting to doors when traveling equal distances.

 

See here is the thing, everyone wants to say "oh well fly goes in a strait line" well I call BS on that. Think for one moment how tall the buildings in Steel Canyon, or many other zones are. Getting to the altitude to avoid those would take 3 times as long travel as to just flying around them. So if i was crossing steel cayon on fly from corner to corner, i am left with the choices as a speedster, either, run the outside around the center, or run through the center and go around the buildings which is the same streets and distances a speedster is running. And if there is not tall buildings then there are lots of open space. Example again is IP. A speedster runs in water at the same speed as land. There is nothing to avoid which means that the entire time they are getting an advantage of 18-32mph with no downside to their advantage. Meanwhile a flier is moving slower and getting no advantage for it. 

 

Yes there are some places like Grandville or the shard where flight might be an advantage but there is also places like Perez Park and Eden where tree over growth makes passageways that require a flier to be essentially on the ground moving slower, with no stealth bonuses or anything that SS gets.  But hit a p2w vendor and you can get a power for free that grants you jumping with your SS, or buy cheap a jet pack that over comes the vertical nature of grandville. But leaving fly so much slower all the time is putting a disadvantage on fliers through 90 percent of the game vs the 10 percent like the shard or grandville that SS might have issues for, and no tools at the p2w vendor compensates for fliers disadvantages. 

[Sovera]

2 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

See here is the thing, everyone wants to say "oh well fly goes in a strait line" well I call BS on that. Think for one moment how tall the buildings in Steel Canyon, or many other zones are. Getting to the altitude to avoid those would take 3 times as long travel as to just flying around them. So if i was crossing steel cayon on fly from corner to corner, i am left with the choices as a speedster, either, run the outside around the center, or run through the center and go around the buildings which is the same streets and distances a speedster is running. And if there is not tall buildings then there are lots of open space. Example again is IP. A speedster runs in water at the same speed as land. There is nothing to avoid which means that the entire time they are getting an advantage of 18-32mph with no downside to their advantage. Meanwhile a flier is moving slower and getting no advantage for it. 

 

Yes there are some places like Grandville or the shard where flight might be an advantage but there is also places like Perez Park and Eden where tree over growth makes passageways that require a flier to be essentially on the ground moving slower, with no stealth bonuses or anything that SS gets.  But hit a p2w vendor and you can get a power for free that grants you jumping with your SS, or buy cheap a jet pack that over comes the vertical nature of grandville. But leaving fly so much slower all the time is putting a disadvantage on fliers through 90 percent of the game vs the 10 percent like the shard or grandville that SS might have issues for, and no tools at the p2w vendor compensates for fliers disadvantages. 

 

Did you test this? Actually test this? People have tested and posted above. You can continue giving your opinion on your feelings or you can test and come back and say they were finks who distorted the truth to suit their bias.

 

-I- did not go and test. I'm basing myself on what people have posted here. 20 seconds slower on a distance long enough for Afterburner to not cover it.

 

'Unacceptably slow' is not how 20 seconds looks like. But this is subjective. To me it just is not.

 

 

I am not, repeat, not being flippant. I honestly want you to come with numbers that prove your point and counter what others have said.

[QuiJon]

On 3/24/2021 at 5:01 PM, Glacier Peak said:

One interesting thing on the Peregrine Island with Afterburner runs, I was able to activate Afterburner TWICE during these journeys.

Which is kind of in iteself misleading. Cause though i could point out that the second instance only benefited you for the last 11 seconds at most, the bigger questions to me comes when you figure that you wont always have equal times like this. In a controlled test you can click afterburner in second 1, when traveling with random needs, perhaps you come into a zone with only 10 seconds left on it and still have 1.5miles to get to your door. 

 

It reallyl doesnt matter what way  you test it or how little you want to try and say the time difference might matter. Most all of us played with flight being 35mph behind Super Speed and 20mph behind jumping. And at that point flight was considered unacceptable. They gave us afterburner and even with the cost involved we took it and flight got popular again, now they are putting us back to being the slowest, taking away fulltime afterburner and making it expire in 30 seconds. Leaving us at those unacceptable speed differences for 2/3rds of the time. 

 

So i say either leave afterburner as a toggle and maybe kick up SJ by 5 or 10 mph, or knock up the flight cap 10 mph or so and make afterburner give you less of a boost for the 30 seconds. 

[QuiJon]

3 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Did you test this? Actually test this? People have tested and posted above. You can continue giving your opinion on your feelings or you can test and come back and say they were finks who distorted the truth to suit their bias.

I dont need to test it, i played it for 7 years. There is a big difference between the way changes "play" in real game, and test. You are testing point a to b times. But that is not taking into acount when you are not going point a to b, maybe you have to level, maybe you have to sell, maybe on some maps it is close enough to not matter, maybe on others you are constantly faced with no AB because of distances. 

 

Before even looking at AB and its uses currently, the travel caps are almost EXACTLY the same differences in speed as was considerd UNACCEPTABLE anymore at the point the original afterburner was added. And the cap between 120mph and 102mph is much larger then between 87mph and 92mph that existed between speed and flight before this change. Which means that when afterburner is NOT running you are as slow as when the game first launched compared to a SS, when after burner IS running you are about 3 times the difference slower then SS from the previous version of afterburner. 

 

So yes the flight cap was raised and it is eaiser to hit it. But overall its a nerf to the flight pool if every measurable difference in speed when compared to the other travel powers the differences in speed got larger. Overall the changes have made flight a 3rd tier travel power again by comparison to other travel powers. 

[Infinitum]

3 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

Which means that when afterburner is NOT running you are as slow as when the game first launched

Well thats fiction.

[Sovera]

6 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

I dont need to test it, i played it for 7 years. There is a big difference between the way changes "play" in real game, and test. You are testing point a to b times. But that is not taking into acount when you are not going point a to b, maybe you have to level, maybe you have to sell, maybe on some maps it is close enough to not matter, maybe on others you are constantly faced with no AB because of distances. 

 

Before even looking at AB and its uses currently, the travel caps are almost EXACTLY the same differences in speed as was considerd UNACCEPTABLE anymore at the point the original afterburner was added. And the cap between 120mph and 102mph is much larger then between 87mph and 92mph that existed between speed and flight before this change. Which means that when afterburner is NOT running you are as slow as when the game first launched compared to a SS, when after burner IS running you are about 3 times the difference slower then SS from the previous version of afterburner. 

 

So yes the flight cap was raised and it is eaiser to hit it. But overall its a nerf to the flight pool if every measurable difference in speed when compared to the other travel powers the differences in speed got larger. Overall the changes have made flight a 3rd tier travel power again by comparison to other travel powers. 

 

If you don't want to test and don't care about the numbers others have posted then I must bow out of this conversation. I don't know how often you are not within 30 seconds of a mission which, btw, is something testing would have told us.

[QuiJon]

Just now, Infinitum said:

Well thats fiction.

No it isnt, when compared to the other travel powers. SS speed cap was 92mph, jumping was 78 (if i recall correctly) and Fly was 58mph.

 

92-58=34mph (original game launch)

120-88=32mph (between current test speed and flight caps) 

 

78-58=20mph (game launch jump vs flight)

102-88=14mph (not as large but closer to launch then current caps with no AB running)

 

I am not saying the flight cap is lower, i am saying speeds achievable by travel powers over all make speed as slow in comparison as it once was before Afterburner originally got added to the game. Meaning that after those 30 seconds we are back to 2004 flight levels. You cant speed up the game over all but increase the gaps between travels and say it is an increase, you sped up the game, and by limiting AB and increasing the SS cap createda  bigger divide again that had been fixed. 

[Infinitum]

5 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

No it isnt, when compared to the other travel powers. SS speed cap was 92mph, jumping was 78 (if i recall correctly) and Fly was 58mph.

 

92-58=34mph (original game launch)

120-88=32mph (between current test speed and flight caps) 

 

78-58=20mph (game launch jump vs flight)

102-88=14mph (not as large but closer to launch then current caps with no AB running)

 

I am not saying the flight cap is lower, i am saying speeds achievable by travel powers over all make speed as slow in comparison as it once was before Afterburner originally got added to the game. Meaning that after those 30 seconds we are back to 2004 flight levels. You cant speed up the game over all but increase the gaps between travels and say it is an increase, you sped up the game, and by limiting AB and increasing the SS cap createda  bigger divide again that had been fixed. 

In every way you are faster under this patch.

 

Period end of story - no comparisons - 

 

I'll say it again

 

Fly is faster in every way under this patch.

 

Its the only unlimited 3 dimensional unrestricted power out of the bunch.

 

Let me say it one more time

 

Fly is faster under this patch.

[Infinitum]

8 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

No it isnt, when compared to the other travel powers. SS speed cap was 92mph, jumping was 78 (if i recall correctly) and Fly was 58mph.

This is what you said btw

 

Which is fiction, false, untrue or however youbwant to say it.

[Sovera]

4 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

This is what you said btw

 

Which is fiction, false, untrue or however youbwant to say it.

They are talking relative speeds, Infinitum. Don't nitpick when it was re-explained a post later.

 

I GET what Qi is trying to say. I'm saying I too have a long experience with the game and it's not -that- common we are more than 30 seconds away from an objective (which we now reach sooner than before since we fly faster than before). 20 seconds is acceptable to me when this happens.

[QuiJon]

5 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

In every way you are faster under this patch.

 

Period end of story - no comparisons - 

 

I'll say it again

 

Fly is faster in every way under this patch.

 

Its the only unlimited 3 dimensional unrestricted power out of the bunch.

 

Let me say it one more time

 

Fly is faster under this patch.

Oh well you said it, so that must mean it is true. 

 

I didnt say it was not faster, what i have been saying is that  ALL the travels in the game got faster, and the changes to afterburner when compared to the differences in travel speeds of jumping and SS from currently achievable levels flight is now slower. Period, 

 

Oh let me say it again, compared to SS new cap, flight is slower then it was now.

 

The gap between SS full time speed and Fly+ab speed is 3 times larger then it currently is. 

 

SS has limitations to vertical that can ALL be negated at a p2w vendor and it is now faster ALL THE TIME, then it used to be compared to flight. This means in comparison Flight is slower then it compares. this means that a SS will be getting to an objective faster then they can in a race against a flier then they currently do. 

 

So Fly is faster under this patch, and SLOWER when compared to SS and Jumping then it currently is. Let me say this again "WHEN COMPARED TO....." Stop playing fox news. You know exactly the numbers i am comparing, you know exactly the point i am trying to make. 

[macskull]

26 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

Oh well you said it, so that must mean it is true. 

 

I didnt say it was not faster, what i have been saying is that  ALL the travels in the game got faster, and the changes to afterburner when compared to the differences in travel speeds of jumping and SS from currently achievable levels flight is now slower. Period, 

 

Oh let me say it again, compared to SS new cap, flight is slower then it was now.

 

The gap between SS full time speed and Fly+ab speed is 3 times larger then it currently is. 

 

SS has limitations to vertical that can ALL be negated at a p2w vendor and it is now faster ALL THE TIME, then it used to be compared to flight. This means in comparison Flight is slower then it compares. this means that a SS will be getting to an objective faster then they can in a race against a flier then they currently do. 

 

So Fly is faster under this patch, and SLOWER when compared to SS and Jumping then it currently is. Let me say this again "WHEN COMPARED TO....." Stop playing fox news. You know exactly the numbers i am comparing, you know exactly the point i am trying to make. 

You do realize that in order to hit these new higher speeds a Super Speed user will now have to shuffle slots around to actually hit the cap, right? This isn't a zero-sum game where you're magically at the speed cap the second you turn on the power.

[arthurh35353]

6 minutes ago, macskull said:

You do realize that in order to hit these new higher speeds a Super Speed user will now have to shuffle slots around to actually hit the cap, right? This isn't a zero-sum game where you're magically at the speed cap the second you turn on the power.

If both people don't change their slots, they are both effectively at the same distance apart on Beta, I believe. Fly by itself may actually be worse off, now that I think it. I'm pretty sure Superspeed doesn't require (right now) a lot of slots on live either

[Bopper]

It's concerning to see people still hung up on a fixed speed delta being equivalent between old and new. I've said it before but I'll repeat it, it's not about the speed delta it's about the speed ratios. Just because Fly at 58.63 mph is ~33 mph slower than Super Speed at 92.5 mph does not mean your experience will be the same now that Fly at 87.95 mph is ~33 mph slower than Super Speed is at 120.24 mph.

Here are the numbers for traveling 2 miles under three conditions. Page 2's Run and Fly speed caps, HC Live's regular Run and Fly speed caps, and a Granite Armor character versus something that can run 33 mph fast than it. In all three conditions, the speed difference is approximately 33 mph, but the difference in time arrival is very different.

 

 

Notice that the time delta between Page 2's and Live's Fly/Run time arrivals is more than cut in half. On live, that 33 mph discrepancy resulted in Fly taking ~58% longer than Super Speed. Now on Page 2, it only takes ~37% longer. So either way you want to look at it, the time differences being cut in half or the time difference percentage being greatly reduced, the increase in speed caps results in better performance going from one place to another.

 

Finally, check out Granite Armor. So sad. It's not shown here, but it also takes a little over a century for it to roll over a curb.

 

Edit: FWIW, I purposely did not include Afterburner being activated. Hopefully folks can figure out the time difference in Page 2 will be even less than what I showed in the calculations.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Bopper

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

They are talking relative speeds, Infinitum. Don't nitpick when it was re-explained a post later.

 

I GET what Qi is trying to say. I'm saying I too have a long experience with the game and it's not -that- common we are more than 30 seconds away from an objective (which we now reach sooner than before since we fly faster than before). 20 seconds is acceptable to me when this happens.

No explanation makes the statement correct.

 

Whats nitpicky is people still hung up that these are bad changes on any of the travel powers.

[Infinitum]

52 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

If both people don't change their slots, they are both effectively at the same distance apart on Beta, I believe. Fly by itself may actually be worse off, now that I think it. I'm pretty sure Superspeed doesn't require (right now) a lot of slots on live either

Thats funny my flight is faster by just logging in under the patch.

[arthurh35353]

22 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Thats funny my flight is faster by just logging in under the patch.

Still talking comparatively. Which we have been for a while. It's not all about absolutism.

[GM Impervium]

4 hours ago, QuiJon said:

I dont need to test it

Funny thing about that. We prefer qualified, objective feedback based on testing and first-hand experience, not "armchair patch-note reading".

Not that armchair patch-note reading is always a bad thing. If there was a patch note that said "All summoned Pets will now be a non-combat Baby New Year", that would be objectively awful (and okay, kinda hilarious), and I would hope that the developers would take the flood of angry/confused/objecting comments seriously before fully committing to that path.

But in this case? You seem to be letting your competitive instinct guide your opinion on this (as you're apparently concerned that a super-speeder will beat you to a mission door?). That's all on you, unfortunately, and has no bearing on whether or not we'll ultimately go forward with these changes. Now, if you tested this out and found, say, that the super speed members of your team were able to complete a mission before you could even get to the door (assuming you started from the same spot and tried your best to reach the door as fast as possible, including use of temp and day job teleport powers), then THAT would be an issue we'd like to hear, have other people test, and THAT might (no promises) lead the devs to closing the speed gap a little.

This is the difference between subjective and objective feedback, the later of which is much more highly valued.

Edited March 27, 2021 by GM Impervium
spelling/typos

[ForeverLaxx]

2 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

Still talking comparatively. Which we have been for a while. It's not all about absolutism.

And comparatively you're still faster. Look at the numbers Bopper just posted: even without Afterburner active, with the same relative difference in capped speeds, Fly arrives to the destination after Super Speed 23 seconds faster than it currently does on Live. Which means, comparatively, you're still moving faster.

 

How this is still a debate I will never understand. At this point, I'm convinced that it's because these powers are no longer capped without some minor slot investment that's getting everyone's goat.

[Infinitum]

46 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

Still talking comparatively. Which we have been for a while. It's not all about absolutism.

i copy character to beta.

 

I log in character...

 

its faster than live as soon as it loads in.

[arthurh35353]

22 hours ago, ForeverLaxx said:

And comparatively you're still faster. Look at the numbers Bopper just posted: even without Afterburner active, with the same relative difference in capped speeds, Fly arrives to the destination after Super Speed 23 seconds faster than it currently does on Live. Which means, comparatively, you're still moving faster.

 

How this is still a debate I will never understand. At this point, I'm convinced that it's because these powers are no longer capped without some minor slot investment that's getting everyone's goat.

You, in fact, missed what he is comparing. He is not comparing the before and after speeds of i17p2, but the comparative speeds of Fly to Super Speed from both live, beta and even historical before Afterburner. He noted that the gap was pulled much closer with the addition of the original Afterburner.

 

Now, in beta (with both sets being faster) Fly is actually losing some of that ground that it had with the Afterburner. The baked in Afterburner is not a full replacement (and I'd call it just enough of a replacement to try to calm people being upset by Afterburner being turned into Evasive Maneuver.)

 

Yes, some of it is complaint about just being a change, but it is a pretty full rewriting of the power and the baked in Afterburner doesn't actually cover the cracks in that replacement of a power. People keep stating that taking Evasive Maneuvers is 'still' the replacement of Afterburner, but it really isn't.

 

Yes, yes, I know. It buffs speed and gives you flight control like hover. But you have to get hover or air superiority anyways and most people tend to [get] hover for combat flying and +Def. And with it being given a lot more emphasis towards it's combat abilities, it's trying to convince people that they want it as a combat power.

 

Not that it is really that useful enough for combat that you'd want to get it anyways. Maybe with Hover it'll be enough to make everyone hummingbirds and they'll really like it.

 

Some of us were happy with the old Afterburner being all about out of combat (or combat irrelevant) as we went as full speed as we thought we could 100% of the time. In fact, we very specifically took it so that we could use it that way and Evasive Maneuver and Third of an Afterburner isn't what we used to have despite all the negative combat disadvantages it had with affect itself and such.

 

((I do have to chuckle that people talk that Evasive Maneuvers should give a buff to flight speed when in real life, moving into an evasive maneuver usually killed your speed and could even stall you out. Thematically, EM should be the click or toggle baked into flight that gives you a bunch of motion control for a loss of some speed, [while] Afterburner should be the power that gives the boost outside of power as the T5. In fact, pretty much all planes can sort of do evasive maneuvers, but only fighter planes have an afterburner.))

Edited March 27, 2021 by arthurh35353