Why no love for Psionic Melee

[VV]

I recently tricked out a Bio/Psi tanker and it is a lot of fun. I took Psi melee for thematic reasons, even though I knew it got a lot of hate from tank-players, in general. But, after playing it for a bit, running it through various 4x8 missions of different enemies, it seems to be pretty solid. I mean, it is no broken OP Super Strength, but I would put it on the level of Dark Melee or something like that. It has a Stun, a Hold, and a Confuse, of all things. An AOE and ST knock-up. And the "trick", Insight, is not a big enough deal that you have to track it closely. Personally, I can't stand tracking tricks, especially while tanking.

 

Many people are like, "Oh, but psi-resistant enemies yadda yadda yadda," and then go off and play their Super Strength. First of all, there are barely any highly psi-resistant enemies. Secondly, when you meet them, it is just like all the S/L damage tankers running into every other enemy.

 

So, my question is, what the heck am I missing? I'm sure I'm missing something for everyone to dislike it so much. I'm usually missing something (at least a few marbles). I mean, I'll play a slightly-less-than-optimal set for theme, but I ain't playing no gimped set just for RP. And, I'm always nervous I'm going to accidentally find the big hole I don't know about at a critical moment. 

[Psyonico]

I think the difference between resisting S/L and resisting Psi is that when things resist Psi, they resist it A LOT while when things resist S/L it's by a much smaller portion.

 

I have only played Psi Melee once, a WP/Psi tank that I got up to 50 then kinda shelved.  I like the set, and I'd like to play it again, but I have trouble getting good concepts for it.

[nihilii]

Psi Melee animations seem to split people between "love 'em" and "hate 'em".

 

Couple that with an abundance of OP choices for Tankers (SS, EM, TW...), and the somewhat wonkiness of Insight mechanic. Might explain why people don't play it much.

In the grand scheme of things, there's nothing wrong with Psi Melee.

[Psyonico]

I've actually decided on making a new Psi melee toon, thinking Psi/Energy Aura brute... now I just need a concept.

[VV]

2 hours ago, Psyonico said:

I think the difference between resisting S/L and resisting Psi is that when things resist Psi, they resist it A LOT while when things resist S/L it's by a much smaller portion.

Interesting. So, who are these super Psi resistant enemies? I want to go test against them, to make sure my tank performs on them before I'm there pulling a whole team. I've already tried against Carnies and Rikti, which didn't give her any trouble. I'm looking for highly Psi resistant enemies.

Edited May 19, 2021 by VV

[Psyonico]

Try running a Hess TF... Very robot heavy, meaning lots of Psi resist

[Sovera]

Well, other than the terrible damage when I tested it. Which was odd at the time but it was really bad VS a pylon even though I didn't use the greater psi sword. But yes, incredibly stiff animations where TK punch looks the best IMO, though I also like the hand swords.

 

The -looks- are great, but the darn animations...

 

And yes, or a Stutter TF. Level 40. Lots of giant robots to chew through. Or Tinpex, same.

[Spaghetti Betty]

Mostly the animations, and the fact that (IMO) Psi Melee just doesn't have as much oomph for a Tanker as it would a Scrapper or a Stalker. The set kind of needs crits to maintain it's identity, at least for me. Sometimes Insight just does not work. Mass Levitate does help your damage mitigation, though. Mobs can't hit you if they're too busy flying through the air.

[Freakgod]

The things mentioned above are all true!

 

However.............

 

BOGGLE! 
 

Complete trash....... “Nuff Said”

Edited May 19, 2021 by Freakgod

[Cenozoic]

24 minutes ago, Freakgod said:

The things mentioned above are all true!

 

However.............

 

BOGGLE! 
 

Complete trash....... “Nuff Said”

I disagree with everything you said except for Gary Busey 😛

 

[SaintD]

5 hours ago, VV said:

Interesting. So, who are these super Psi resistant enemies? I want to go test against them, to make sure my tank performs on them before I'm there pulling a whole team. I've already tried against Carnies and Rikti, which didn't give her any trouble. I'm looking for highly Psi resistant enemies.

Pretty much every single robot in the game is running something like 50% psi resist. And robots are extremely common, especially with factions that can already be problematic.

[Marshal_General]

I think that procs can take some of the pressure off the psi resist problem. 

[Heraclea]

I have it on a scrapper and rather enjoy it.   Insight is rather like the Savage stacks; it's difficult or impossible to parlay into burst damage, so in practice I ignore it.  Mass Levitate is great fun.  And Boggle just means more build freedom.  My understanding is that Council robots also have 50% resistance to smashing damage as well,

[MTeague]

7 hours ago, Heraclea said:

My understanding is that Council robots also have 50% resistance to smashing damage as well,

Are you sure? I seem to recall doing significantly better damage with smashing attacks vs council robots. 

Any chance you meant 50% lethal resistance?  I know my claws scrapper is not the happiest to see robot swarms.

[siolfir]

Council Robot Resistance: 50% lethal, 60% psi... -15% smashing (love them on SS).

[MrAxe]

Tbh I'm sick of the punch animation. I don't mind the energy manifesting itself as a fist, I 'd just like a better animation for the character.

[Heraclea]

On 5/21/2021 at 4:14 PM, MTeague said:

Are you sure? I seem to recall doing significantly better damage with smashing attacks vs council robots. 

Any chance you meant 50% lethal resistance?  I know my claws scrapper is not the happiest to see robot swarms.

Brainfart on my part, of course.  It's the lethal that they resist almost as heavily as they do psi. 

[PainX]

i was having an issue with this on my scrapper now i otherwise like it but those damn bots so this is what i did i worked in crosspunch which now means i do about 800 smashing in 2 attacks and if all else fails add in the snipe used to have a different epic entirely i just realised mu is best allways

 

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also since we are talking resists i like to use this link gives you the basics backed by a spreadsheet for math nerds 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by PainX
i wanted a pear it turned out to be a banana

[Cenozoic]

That Nemesis stat is pretty strange.  I mow through them with Psi damage (Mind/Psi Dom & Mind/Dark Troller).  

 

Didn't see it on the spreadsheet, but are all of the abovementioned resists auto, or are some toggles?

[Warboss]

Hey VV,

As other's have stated, on a Tank it's pretty "ho hum" damage wise. Which is too bad, because the animations for the most part are pretty fun. Bio is probably on of the better (if not the best armor set to pair it with). I think one of my attempts with it was on Bio/Psi and once I was able to get some meaningful sets into it did get better. I have an Ice Armor/PSi Tank, which is okay. I'm not a big fan of Boggle, as I have a hard time understanding why a Tank would stand in combat twiddling their fingers at opponents instead of hitting them. Overall I think it's a very thematic set and I've seen some really cool color modifiers and costumes to emulate certain "lantern" characters. I might try it again, but for now, the one I have are enough.

 

I'd probably try it with Electric Armor. Seems like you could make a very "sapperesque/'troller" type of Tank.

[VV]

Okay, I went and tested it on a bunch of 4x8 Council mission. I admit, it is a little slow on the kill. But then again, my main tanker is F3, so I may be biased. But, still, they went down fast enough. I mean, it wasn't long, drawn out combats. I ran on Efficient Adaptation so I wasn't "cheating" and getting too much bonus damage from Bio. I mean, I see what you're saying regarding lower damage, but I don't think it is unusably bad. And, generally, Tankers aren't designed to be great soloers. And this one, in particular, is designed to be mostly teamy. Anyway, thanks so much for the feedback, that is what I wanted to know.

[FUBARczar]

The Psi resist "problem" is overblown, speaking from the experience of having Psi Melee or Blast on 4 Blasters (1 Primary, 3 Secondary), 2 Brutes, 2 Stalkers, 2 Doms, 1 Scrapper, 1 Corruptor and 1 Defender.  Psi Melee does a lot of dmg, more than most sets, and killing even Robots is not a problem.

 

 

[VV]

3 hours ago, FUBARczar said:

The Psi resist "problem" is overblown, speaking from the experience of having Psi Melee or Blast on 4 Blasters (1 Primary, 3 Secondary), 2 Brutes, 2 Stalkers, 2 Doms, 1 Scrapper, 1 Corruptor and 1 Defender.  Psi Melee does a lot of dmg, more than most sets, and killing even Robots is not a problem.

This has been my experience, as well.

[DreadShinobi]

Psi melee with IOs performance vs robots changes drastically. Robots typically resist both lethal+psionic but are weak to smashing. All the psi melee blade attacks are lethal+psi but TK blow has a smashing component and mass levitate is pure smashing. Even though the smashing damage component of TK blow is smaller than the psi damage, it is amplified quite a bit vs robots becuase they are weak to it. As you gain more global recharge, and the forcefeedback proc, you can rotate your smashing damage in more consistently vs robot foes. Robot foes are typically only a part of a spawn group and not its entirety. Next the purple damage procs are a massive boon for psi melee. GPB can take the Hecatomb: Negative proc and Unbreakable Constraint: Smashing proc, which along with naturally high base damage will still dismantle robots efficiently. Mass Levitate also gains the Armageddon: Fire proc for more unresisted damage vs robots. At high level you also get access to Gloom (with Apocalypse negative dmg proc) and Dark Obliteration, which is great with 4 dmg procs. Of course there are other APP options, but Gloom is hard to pass on. In the end your Psi Melee Tanker is dishing out Psionic, Lethal, Smashing, Negative, Fire, and Energy damage, which is quite a lot of type variance to get around resistant foes.

[Parabola]

46 minutes ago, DreadShinobi said:

Psi melee with IOs performance vs robots changes drastically. Robots typically resist both lethal+psionic but are weak to smashing. All the psi melee blade attacks are lethal+psi but TK blow has a smashing component and mass levitate is pure smashing. Even though the smashing damage component of TK blow is smaller than the psi damage, it is amplified quite a bit vs robots becuase they are weak to it. As you gain more global recharge, and the forcefeedback proc, you can rotate your smashing damage in more consistently vs robot foes. Robot foes are typically only a part of a spawn group and not its entirety. Next the purple damage procs are a massive boon for psi melee. GPB can take the Hecatomb: Negative proc and Unbreakable Constraint: Smashing proc, which along with naturally high base damage will still dismantle robots efficiently. Mass Levitate also gains the Armageddon: Fire proc for more unresisted damage vs robots. At high level you also get access to Gloom (with Apocalypse negative dmg proc) and Dark Obliteration, which is great with 4 dmg procs. Of course there are other APP options, but Gloom is hard to pass on. In the end your Psi Melee Tanker is dishing out Psionic, Lethal, Smashing, Negative, Fire, and Energy damage, which is quite a lot of type variance to get around resistant foes.

I'm of the opinion that damage type diversification is an underrated benefit of proc use. The raw damage numbers are of course the main draw but outputting a broad mixture of damage types smoothes out many resistance based bumps in the road. When I'm presented with a choice of procs I'll always go for the mixture that gives the widest variety taking the base damage type(s) of the power into account.