Are costume contests fair?

[KauaiJim]

2 hours ago, GM Impervium said:

To answer the actual question within the post

 

Oops.  I was so busy trying to get a chuckle I sorta missed that...

 

Yeah OP, there's not much you can do about what graphics capabilities and settings others are using.  Hopefully someone running a costume contest will have at least a decent card and have the graphics turned up if possible (at least for the event).  I am personally not a fan of the cel shading because I tend to like the (very) slightly more realistic look.  I have turned those features on and tried them and can see why some folks like them for the comic/animation look - it's just not my personal taste.  

 

Could they have had cel shading on and it make your costume look weird (or less like you want it presented)?  Sure.  They could also be half blind, crazy, and have a bias for certain AT's or color schemes for all you know.  Heck, they could have the color settings on their monitor all wonky.  Who knows?  It's just how it is.  These things are for fun and about as subjective as things can be even with the folks running them trying to be fair judges.  I supposed a person could submit screenshots to show their build as they want it seen but then it wouldn't be an in game event so much...

 

So,

 

14 hours ago, Ukase said:

How do we know the playing field for a costume contest is a level field? 

 

You don't.  I'm sure folks will try to be fair, but that will be their version or idea of fair, not yours.  Think of it as a field with no hills or valleys but a few potholes and gopher mounds - 'mostly' level.  And above all - have fun!  If you don't win the first time but it's something your personally want to accomplish - well, keep trying.  You can do it.  But I would only suggest taking on that journey (or obsession, lol) to those who can accept that it may never happen and are doing it mainly for fun.  Sorry about only making a joke response originally.  I'm kinda silly at times.

[Blackbird71]

To answer the title question:  No; but not for the reasons you think.

 

To illustrate, let me lay out a hypothetical scenario.

 

Someone advertises a costume contest in AP, using language along the lines of:  "CC in AP in 30 minutes, no theme, 100 mil in prizes, more with donations."

 

Wanting to boost the contest, people send in donations.  There's no way for any one person (besides the organizer) to know exactly how much was received, but for the sake of the example, let's say another 100 mil Inf comes in.

As the costume contest is about to begin, the organizer then announces.  "Great news! With donations, we're giving out 150 mil in prizes!"  The organizer then pockets the additional 50 mil that no one knows was even there.

 

Then, the judging begins.  The organizer has several friends/alt accounts in the crowd who are awarded prizes.  Not all the winners have to be plants; a few random real people will get prizes to keep up appearances as people tell their friends "this guy does good contests; I got second place once!"  The organizer can give out up to 50 mil in prizes and will still be making a 50 mil profit over where they started.  The less they give out, the more they pocket.

Of course this is all hypothetical and a speculation.  The numbers are made up to demonstrate possibilities.  The bottom line is there are two methods of scamming Inf through CCs:  1) the unknown amount of donations actually received, and 2) the unknown factor of who is actually receiving the Inf.  Whether each contest uses one of these, both, or none will remain an unknown, and perhaps not every pick-up CC is a scam, but they are certainly something to be wary of.  So, 1) don't donate to CCs, and 2) remember that by flocking to CCs, you're helping give them the appearance of legitimacy.

So no, CCs are not fair.

[Snarky]

11 hours ago, Ukase said:

I agree with the point it's subjective. I am just wondering how different things look between my system and other systems. I USED to have one of the top 3 cards...now it's a middle of the pack card. Still more than good enough for this game, but I do wonder how to make things look more real, and less "comic-book-ish".  Like the opposite of cel-shading. 

 

You should upgrade.  $20,000 in modern comp equipment can only improve the CoH experience.  Right?

[Snarky]

8 hours ago, honoroit said:

 

My fashion is obviously the Supreme, no matter the entrant riff raff that would show themselves to challenge that. 

 

Sometime, I don't win. Nepotism, or spite. That's what that is. 

 

(sometimes there's a some great stuff... Like a guy who I thought had a HUGE bug head... It was the missing head, and enormous bulby shoulders. Looked properly like a bipedal fly. - - but then there's the rainbow splat clown, who gets 250m inf. Outrageous.) 

i love my outfits.  i spend long times in the editor tweaking the same 7-8 themes for new alts.  However....lol...i am not good.

 

recently got into an SG themed day job contest.  i tried to make a fireman outfit.  hmmm.  just got frustrated and made a lab research scientist.  not bad, but it want a Picasso either.  Someone showed up with a knock your socks off Fireman.  including a kitty on each shoulder that had been saved from trees.  utilizing parts to create the overall gestalt that i never thought to put together in that way.  yeah, that costume won.  my ego....sigh.....another shattered dream on my way to the grave.  again.  

[ForeverLaxx]

As your question on whether you having Cel Shading on or not matters (it doesn't: the person doing the judging has the only visual setting that matters) has been answered, I'd just like to say that I've got a ton of costumes I love with small details and themed designs that many people compliment the few times I team but I've never placed, let alone won, a CC on Homecoming.

 

Why? Because it's subjective. In my experience, the people who seem to win the most are people who used 90-100% of a developer-made costume set (think Celestial Armor) or they're some kind of skimpy catgirl. The others that win/place are almost always joke characters.

 

There's no accounting for taste, I'm afraid. Just enjoy your own look because your opinion on your costume is the only one that really matters.

[Glacier Peak]

6 minutes ago, ForeverLaxx said:

As your question on whether you having Cel Shading on or not matters (it doesn't: the person doing the judging has the only visual setting that matters) has been answered, I'd just like to say that I've got a ton of costumes I love with small details and themed designs that many people compliment the few times I team but I've never placed, let alone won, a CC on Homecoming.

 

Why? Because it's subjective. In my experience, the people who seem to win the most are people who used 90-100% of a developer-made costume set (think Celestial Armor) or they're some kind of skimpy catgirl. The others that win/place are almost always joke characters.

 

There's no accounting for taste, I'm afraid. Just enjoy your own look because your opinion on your costume is the only one that really matters.

Well said! At the end of the day, a costume contest might take up an hour or so of your time (dependent on number of participants vs. judges). Contrast this to staring at your character every time you play it, days, weeks, months even. Way more important to me how I like it, than how other folks like it.

[Neiska]

It might just be me, but I don't enter CCs to win infamy. Sure, it may be nice to get noticed when you win, (and I never have. I think I have placed in the final group once). But honestly? Even if I don't place I still get tells from people saying "I really like your costume" and so on. And on top of that, I like seeing all the amazing things people come up with for looks, style, creativity and so on.

 

But if money is what I am after, I don't count on CCs. Some of them can take quite a long time, over an hour or two in some cases. I would usually make more in that time powerfarming by myself than I would if I won first prize.

 

And I have seen some doozy winners myself, people who made me think "wow how did that win?" This is not an attack on that person who won, or even the judge who voted for it. Maybe they saw something I didn't. Maybe its for another outside or unknown reason. And yes, it could be a "pity vote" or even a "new player handout" sort of thing too. But, I would say none of these are "wrong" or even "bad." People who feel so strongly are certainly free to host their own CC after all, and decide their own winners. Regardless of the theme, judges, winners, not everyone is going to agree on the winner or who was "best." But that is human nature I suppose! And I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

 

So if your objective is to win/get money, then it might not be fair no, as judges and winners are entirely subjective, and even in real life competitions not everyone agrees with professional judges decisions.

 

But if your objective is to hang out, chitchat, maybe make a few friends, and see some amazing creations, then I have won every CC I have ever entered.

 

And I for one am glad we have such an active community where players host their own events without outside help/assistance/oversight from the staff. Not all games are so lucky, in fact, most aren't. I see events such as these as a GOOD thing. Its people being creative, interactive, enthusiastic, and helping create entertainment instead of merely being entertained, which I don't really see as an ill thing.

 

But that's just my mere personal experiences.

 

As far as the Cel shading thing? I would say that depends on the host or organizer, but I don't think I have ever heard it mentioned before. 

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, Neiska said:

It might just be me, but I don't enter CCs to win infamy. Sure, it may be nice to get noticed when you win, (and I never have. I think I have placed in the final group once). But honestly? Even if I don't place I still get tells from people saying "I really like your costume" and so on. And on top of that, I like seeing all the amazing things people come up with for looks, style, creativity and so on.

 

But if money is what I am after, I don't count on CCs. Some of them can take quite a long time, over an hour or two in some cases. I would usually make more in that time powerfarming by myself than I would if I won first prize.

 

To be very clear, I would never be in it for the money. The SG I'm in, they give "participation" prizes, which I tell them to keep. I have more inf than I know what to do with. Not quite 300 billion, but getting there. 

My whole reason for asking is so I can be clear that it has nothing to do with my costume, but everything to do with the system the judge(s) play with. 

[KC4800]

I go to CC's because its a community activity. Never expect to win, just participate. There's lots of good chat, funny lines. Just support the community and keep this little corner of the gaming world active. WHen its run by actual devs it's usually worth your time, even if you don't win.

[Yomo Kimyata]

14 hours ago, Blackbird71 said:

To answer the title question:  No; but not for the reasons you think.

 

To illustrate, let me lay out a hypothetical scenario.

 

Someone advertises a costume contest in AP, using language along the lines of:  "CC in AP in 30 minutes, no theme, 100 mil in prizes, more with donations."

 

Wanting to boost the contest, people send in donations.  There's no way for any one person (besides the organizer) to know exactly how much was received, but for the sake of the example, let's say another 100 mil Inf comes in.

As the costume contest is about to begin, the organizer then announces.  "Great news! With donations, we're giving out 150 mil in prizes!"  The organizer then pockets the additional 50 mil that no one knows was even there.

 

Then, the judging begins.  The organizer has several friends/alt accounts in the crowd who are awarded prizes.  Not all the winners have to be plants; a few random real people will get prizes to keep up appearances as people tell their friends "this guy does good contests; I got second place once!"  The organizer can give out up to 50 mil in prizes and will still be making a 50 mil profit over where they started.  The less they give out, the more they pocket.

Of course this is all hypothetical and a speculation.  The numbers are made up to demonstrate possibilities.  The bottom line is there are two methods of scamming Inf through CCs:  1) the unknown amount of donations actually received, and 2) the unknown factor of who is actually receiving the Inf.  Whether each contest uses one of these, both, or none will remain an unknown, and perhaps not every pick-up CC is a scam, but they are certainly something to be wary of.  So, 1) don't donate to CCs, and 2) remember that by flocking to CCs, you're helping give them the appearance of legitimacy.

So no, CCs are not fair.

 

I am a very suspicious person by nature (and I've been right a lot, sadly), and that is exactly what I assumed was happening with those contests.

[RikOz]

On 5/25/2021 at 10:16 PM, Tacheyon said:

But then you also run the risk of a 18 year old siding with the max female chest slider entry or the Edgelord wannebe.

Dang, I'd be hosed if that were the case. First thing I do with most of my female characters is drag the chest slider to the left!

 

Only CC I can recall entering back on live was won by a blatant Captain America clone.

 

I've been a finalist in one CC on HC - heard the theme announced, decided that one of my alts had a costume that vaguely fit that theme, and logged her in. Was a finalist, but didn't win a prize.

 

I typically only enter CCs if I happen to be in AP when one is announced, and then I'll just enter with whichever character I happen to be playing at the moment. I do wish I'd see more announcements for CCs in the new Echo Plaza, if only for the consistent, neutral lighting. AP's default lighting tends to add a pink cast to everything.

 

Re: Cel shading - I tend to not like it, as I haven't figured out how to get rid of that "shiny" effect. A couple of my characters, though, have costumes that actually look better with cel shading on.

Edited May 27, 2021 by RikOz

[Ukase]

On 5/26/2021 at 5:13 AM, Blackbird71 said:

As the costume contest is about to begin, the organizer then announces.  "Great news! With donations, we're giving out 150 mil in prizes!"  The organizer then pockets the additional 50 mil that no one knows was even there.

 The organizer can give out up to 50 mil in prizes and will still be making a 50 mil profit over where they started.  The less they give out, the more they pocket.

Zounds! (an archaic word I think I heard Hercules utter in a comic book when I was a kid. That was a long time ago, which is why I say it's archaic)
Why am I marketing when I could be fleecing money off all you costume contest fans? And pick the winners I like and maybe start a push towards more traditional looking costumes - i.e. Captain America, Vision, Daredevil, Fantastic Four type stuff : 1-3 colors. No crazy things on the shoulders, maybe a cape, maybe not. Maybe a mask, maybe not. But certainly no kittens on the shoulders. How's Atta going to react to that in battle? Moreover, how is it the kitten remains affixed to the shoulder during battle. If the player gets defeated, what happens to the kitten? There's too much suspension of disbelief required there, folks. 

 

[Blackbird71]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

Moreover, how is it the kitten remains affixed to the shoulder during battle. 

 

Gorilla Glue.

 

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

If the player gets defeated, what happens to the kitten? 

 

Spoiler:  it's a plush.

 

[Tiger Shadow]

I never donate to the prize pool of someone's CC, I skip the middleman and give the inf directly to whoever I think had the best costume.

[srmalloy]

On 5/25/2021 at 10:25 AM, Ukase said:

I saw a comment in general chat a couple of days ago about "cel shading".  I wasn't quite sure what that was, as I was unclear if CEL were an acronym or a lazy typist's way of using Cell.

It's a reference to the way that animated characters were painted over the inked line drawings. The transparent sheets that characters (and sometimes background elements) were drawn and painted on were stacked to be photographed to make up each frame of animation. In early animation, these sheets were made of celluloid, and the images came to be referred to as 'cels' ; the name stuck even after the celluloid was replaced by cellulose acetate (celluloid, being made of cellulose nitrate and camphor, was both flammable and dimensionally unstable).

 

Because the cels were hand-painted, production requirements prohibited complex shading with gradation of shade, and would typically have only a main color, a shade color, and sometimes a highlight color, for each part of a character.

[Samsupra]

I am someone who will tweak a costume for weeks to find the right aesthetic balance in shape, colour and concept. My friends would get so jealous of my results that they would have me tweak or even design their costumes. I designed our super group, colour palette and even tabards in other games (along with guild names as I often find witty and interesting concepts). I constantly would get players in game stop and comment on my designs.

 

That said, I never won a single costume contest I ever entered in CoH and CO.

 

Why? Because the judging would often come down to someone with completely different tastes. I noticed that most winners tended to be simple, clean, 2 colour "hero in tights" which I could design and make in 5 minutes. I gave up on contests early on in my gaming career. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Samsupra

[TemporalVileTerror]

This discussion about contest/event donation fleecing has given me an idea.

I've made a point of listing a public ledger for donations of some of the larger events I've run or been a part of the organizing committee for.  Frequently, though, I have people specifically asking to remain anonymous.

 

So!  Idea!

 

Hey!  Anonymous donors?

Offer your donations in unique values.  Like 987,543,999.  That way the ledger will reflect the precise amount you gave, and you can confirm that it's being added to the tally while remaining anonymous.  Since other donors should provide amounts with completely different values, you can collectively monitor the donation ledger to ensure no one is fleecing you.  Just be sure to double-check the ledger every so often.

 

Also:  Don't donate unless someone is willing to have a ledger for auditing.  Just .  .  . in general.  I mean, go ahead and give the poor homeless person on the street corner a $10, but if you're going to drop $5,000 to a charity, make damned sure they're on the up-and-up.

[JJDrakken]

Are they fair, hell no. If you notice 90% time it's some random female(As in the character, not exactly the human behind them) in some sexy outfit that wins, even if it's a specific theme. I recall not to long ago, one time I did one, when HC was hosting it. GM picked me, I got ported to finals, to only see 4 other female toons in sexy outfits and me, before I even had a chance to line up, I was ported out, I was like wha? I asked GM who picked me that was fast, he was like yah, sorry I didn't have a say in finals, they decided to oggle the lady characters.

 

Not only that, just because you think your shit is amazing, doesn't mean others do. Folks have different opinions/tastes.  But as I said above, all Contests I've watched when I was bored, it was that result. I don't join em, cuz I don't need cash or anxiety of someone judging what I made, lol.

Edited May 28, 2021 by JJDrakken

[Myrmidon]

I think my favorite costume contest was once it was over and I switched to my actual character look, the winner of the contest told me they loved that one. Perhaps I should go with my armor the next time the theme is right.

[Alchemystic]

@Blackbird71 I think I know who you're talking about, and I tend to avoid their costume contests because of the very reasons you highlighted after growing suspicious myself.

 

Since there's no way to tell how much inf these "judges" could be skimming from the prize pool, or potentially how many plants they may have in the crowd, so I think requesting inf donations should be against the CoC.

[Blackbird71]

18 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

@Blackbird71 I think I know who you're talking about, and I tend to avoid their costume contests because of the very reasons you highlighted after growing suspicious myself.

 

Since there's no way to tell how much inf these "judges" could be skimming from the prize pool, or potentially how many plants they may have in the crowd, so I think requesting inf donations should be against the CoC.

 

I'm not referencing anyone specifically, as I don't have enough knowledge of anyone in particular.  I'm just suspicious of the practice in general, and would recommend avoiding participation in any CC that accepts donations, both as a donor and a contestant.  If an individual or SG wants to throw a CC, let them fund it themselves.  Maybe I'm paranoid, but I've seen enough questionable results to raise my distrust.

Disclaimer:  I've played EVE Online, where you learn to expect that anything could be a scam.  However, I'm surprised how often that level of suspicion turns out to be accurate.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Blackbird71

[Xeres]

Obviously not.  That's part of the fun IMO.  Imagine if there was some formula or algorithm to winning a CC?  No, TY.