Rebuilding rage.

[Haijinx]

Keep in mind that in the past many argued that the -dmg did not exist on live.

 

So I can't assume what "we all know"

[gameboy1234]

On 6/17/2021 at 7:15 PM, Xenosone said:

and being smashing damage.

 

This is a fair point and one reason I think SS should get a blanket increase in damage.  An increase would "make up for" all the mobs resistant to Smashing (and there's a lot) while it would also act as a sort of bonus damage against mobs that are not resistant to Smashing.

 

[AerialAssault]

[Haijinx]

46 minutes ago, gameboy1234 said:

 

This is a fair point and one reason I think SS should get a blanket increase in damage.  An increase would "make up for" all the mobs resistant to Smashing (and there's a lot) while it would also act as a sort of bonus damage against mobs that are not resistant to Smashing.

 

A huge number of sets are smashing damage, and none get such benefit

[TheZag]

Theres alot of pages i skipped so forgive me if my idea on a rage rework is the same as someone elses.

 

I think rage should be similar to the hybrid so it starts with a low damage buff and increases as you attack more.  It would stack up to 5 times,  im thinking 10-15% for each stack.  Stacks can expire if you arent attacking often enough,  maybe 5-10 seconds without attacking drops a stack or each only lasts for 20ish seconds so you need to keep attacking.  "But Zag,  thats less damage buff then it has now."   Well yes,  but let me finish.

 

At 5 stacks you are fully enraged and your single target attacks have a good chance to do extra smashing damage to your primary target and nearby targets.  Hurl would have 100% chance for the effect since in full rage mode pulling a literal boulder from under ground should hit more then 1 target.  Foot stomp is pretty good already so im not sure if it should get more AoE but hand clap should probably have a high chance for the proc damage.

 

The bonus damage to the primary target should be tuned to put the total damage over the duration fairly close to what players get from rage now.  The splash damage would be an increase to overall damage but i dont feel it is out of line since most players want SS buffed but cant agree on how it should be done.

 

I dont think the crash portion should be a thing anymore in my version of rage since it requires active player involvement.  And if the double rage stackers are required to be catered to,  then adjust the numbers as necessary. 

 

 

[Hexquisite]

1 hour ago, AerialAssault said:

There are absolutely no flaws in this argument. 

[arcane]

3 hours ago, gameboy1234 said:

 

This is a fair point and one reason I think SS should get a blanket increase in damage.  An increase would "make up for" all the mobs resistant to Smashing (and there's a lot) while it would also act as a sort of bonus damage against mobs that are not resistant to Smashing.

 

Smashing isn’t really any more resisted than lethal or psionic damage, if not less resisted. How many sets are we gonna be buffing to make this proposal fair? Sounds like broad power creep, no thanks.

[Galaxy Brain]

27 minutes ago, arcane said:

Smashing isn’t really any more resisted than lethal or psionic damage, if not less resisted. How many sets are we gonna be buffing to make this proposal fair? Sounds like broad power creep, no thanks.

Smashing is much more commonly resisted than all but Toxic and Lethal damage, however when Psy is resisted its often in wumbo sized portions.

[Haijinx]

45 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Smashing is much more commonly resisted than all but Toxic and Lethal damage, however when Psy is resisted its often in wumbo sized portions.

Guess we should buff war mace and Titan Weapons then.

[Vanden]

@Captain Powerhouse has already said he wants to do a full audit of enemy resistances and adjust them so they aren’t so lopsided, so buffing sets to get free damage based on their damage type is never gonna happen.

 

[Haijinx]

41 minutes ago, Vanden said:

@Captain Powerhouse has already said he wants to do a full audit of enemy resistances and adjust them so they aren’t so lopsided, so buffing sets to get free damage based on their damage type is never gonna happen.

 

 

That and it would be impossible to fairly parcel it out.

 

Almost every set has smashing or Lethal in part of its damage. 

[BrandX]

6 hours ago, gameboy1234 said:

 

This is a fair point and one reason I think SS should get a blanket increase in damage.  An increase would "make up for" all the mobs resistant to Smashing (and there's a lot) while it would also act as a sort of bonus damage against mobs that are not resistant to Smashing.

 

 

I'm not so much against this, as I always wonder, what's the point of resistance, if the answer to it, is to raise the damage of the sets to overcome resistances.

 

Maybe, the better solution would be, not all enemies need to be highly smashing resistance.

[Gobbledigook]

If they could do the sort of rework energy melee got i would be happy for them to rework SS and rage. EM surpasses most, if not all other sets since the rework. EM may not be heavy in AoE but it isn't that bad really. Some other sets are not much better and even worse. Hard to deny Em's single target damage and lower end cost and stuns.

 

They could just take the easy route and only allow Rage one stack. Fix Jabs Dpa. Do something with Hurl....a long cone or a targeted AoE could work.

 

They could also turn Rage into a 2 minute buff that tiers down similar to how the Incarnate Destiny powers work. A big buff for 10-20 seconds then slowly starts weakening after 30secs and then 1 minute etc. Rename it adrenalin rush or something else maybe also.

[Gobbledigook]

Just now, Gobbledegook said:

If they could do the sort of rework energy melee got i would be happy for them to rework SS and rage. EM surpasses most, if not all other sets since the rework. EM may not be heavy in AoE but it isn't that bad really. Some other sets are not much better and even worse. Hard to deny Em's single target damage and lower end cost and stuns.

 

They could just take the easy route and only allow Rage one stack. Fix Jabs Dpa. Do something with Hurl....a long cone or a targeted AoE could work. Adjust the numbers of Rage or the dpa of attacks where needed.

 

They could also turn Rage into a 2 minute buff that tiers down similar to how the Incarnate Destiny powers work. A big buff for 10-20 seconds then slowly starts weakening after 30secs and then 1 minute etc. Rename it adrenalin rush or something else maybe also.

 

[SwitchFade]

1 hour ago, Vanden said:

@Captain Powerhouse has already said he wants to do a full audit of enemy resistances and adjust them so they aren’t so lopsided, so buffing sets to get free damage based on their damage type is never gonna happen.

 

I also heard @Captain Powerhouseloves economics and hopes we will discuss it here, at length, with the maths.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2021 by SwitchFade

[skoryy]

8 hours ago, AerialAssault said:

 

See this guy?  He gets it.

[Vanden]

10 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Keep in mind that in the past many argued that the -dmg did not exist on live.

It’s technically true! Before the -Damage was put in, it did Only Affecting Self instead, meaning you used to do even less damage during the crash.

[gameboy1234]

On 6/21/2021 at 3:24 PM, Galaxy Brain said:

Smashing is much more commonly resisted than all but Toxic and Lethal damage, however when Psy is resisted its often in wumbo sized portions.

This is definitely my perception.  SS feels like it's always doing less damage than other sets.

 

On 6/21/2021 at 4:10 PM, Haijinx said:

Guess we should buff war mace and Titan Weapons then.

War Mace if anything is bordering on OP.  The numbers are just different, WM got a buff back on live right around the time of Going Rogue, and it was a pretty chunky one too imo.  Played WM to 50 on a Tanker, it works fine.  I think the main difference might be the no-crash self buff and WM's AoE is chunkier too, and arrives earlier.  WM's second AoE does damage too, unlike Hand Clap.

 

On 6/21/2021 at 6:26 PM, BrandX said:

 

I'm not so much against this, as I always wonder, what's the point of resistance, if the answer to it, is to raise the damage of the sets to overcome resistances.

 

Maybe, the better solution would be, not all enemies need to be highly smashing resistance.

This would be fine too, but making all sets play the same probably isn't the answer either.  I think there's a fine line between shutting down a particular set vs certain enemies, and having all sets play exactly the same all the time.  Neither is desirable.  It's player perception but it does matter.  Adjusting resistances on all enemies is going to affect all powersets.  Just changing the damage on SS affects only SS.  The aforementioned survey of all enemy resistances would be a good start.

 

Besides just raising damage (or lowering resistances) other things might be looked at, like soft controls (should SS stun more? KD more? The percentage chance might be increased) and also when powers are available.  Give KO Blow a small cone, and remove the crash from Rage would all be good things, if you don't want to increase base damage directly.

 

[Captain Citadel]

I'd really like to see Super Strength get a balance pass of some kind. Thematically it's supposed to be incredibly powerful, but in practice it's one of the worst melee sets to actually play. I'm not saying it should be the best set ever, but it should be better than it is. The damage crash on Rage makes me feel like the Hulk turning back into puny Banner, and that's not what I picked the set for. Makes me want to rename the button to "Impotent Nerd Rage."

It also continues to vex me that Foot Stomp works while flying (at ground level) but Hurl doesn't. I'd wager the majority of characters using Super Strength have taken Fly for thematic reasons.