Sentinels. Why???

[Onlyasandwich]

1 hour ago, Carnifax said:

Dealing with the Blue Bar.

 

Do you have any insight as to why this might be so hungry?

 

From what I see, SR actually has slightly lower end consumption numbers than other primaries. The armors are the same cost and there are no more of them to run, and it has no damage aura toggle with higher end to pull it down further.

 

Edit: Oh haha, you were referencing Dark/MA. I am loopy. The character is going to be SR/MA. : )

Edited June 21, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[arcane]

1 hour ago, Carnifax said:

Be prepared for the toughest fight in the game....

 

Dealing with the Blue Bar.

 

Mine is mid-20s and even with the various uniques is constantly gasping. What usually kills him is running out of blue, then shields dropping, then death. 

Pretty much impossible to have endurance problems at level 50 thanks to incarnates, so there’s that silver lining that this will only ever be a problem when exemplaring.

 

SR tankers are awesome.

Edited June 21, 2021 by arcane

[Crysis]

On 6/19/2021 at 9:06 PM, MTeague said:

 

Is it though?  That question may circle back to the whole "Are things balanced around tricked out IO builds, or around SO usage?".

 

If balanced around SO's, then I think a case can be made that Sentinels are in a very nice niche. Quite durable, constant status protection, modest range and ability to hoverblast, etc.  Not even close to the damage output of a blaster, true, but, IF ONLY CONSIDERING SO's, that blaster is going to eat pavement a LOT. The Sent? Won't.

 

My personal sense is that it's probably time to balance things around IO builds, but, that is far from a universal opinion, and I do not know if the Dev's share it.  (or for that matter, if they agree with my impressions of the relative strengths at SO usage.)

 

OK, if built around SO’s, I can see your point.  I guess that just has felt so very, very foreign to me since the Invention system was introduced.  I admit to never once playing with SO’s since that date, at least not entirely.  Crafted non-set IO’s sure but since I was never a “Free to Play” player even during Live, I don’t even remember what SO’s felt like.

 

However, assuming you are right, then “re-“ balancing Sents around IO’s still likely wouldn’t bring them up to par with most other AT’s.  I have high end Sent builds (+5 Hami’s and Purples no less) that still pale in comparison to a simple Arch/TA blaster running on pure non-set IO’s.  So I’m still having struggles believing how a dev did this intentionally, unless as has been reported elsewhere in this thread, it was just a half-finished “alpha” build that got compiled into a release as a “new feature, untested/unproven, take it or leave it” bit of unfinished code.  That kind of intentionality I can understand....where this is an unfinished bit of code simply released as “intentionally” unfinished for no other reason than to call it a HomeComing “feature.” 

[Crysis]

On 6/20/2021 at 1:09 AM, Dark Dove said:

 

Fire/Fire blaster? I can't look right now, but I think that's a thing.

 

EDIT: I eventually looked, yep, Fire/Fire blaster has access to both Rain of Fire and Burn. Is Burn even worth using without something to stop mobs from running?  I have no experience with it outside of AT's with aggro control.

 

Rumors said they have a F/F/F Sent.  So Fire Cages from the epic + Burn + ROF and they ALL BURN.  Well within the pathetic aggro limit they do anyways.

[skoryy]

1 hour ago, Crysis said:

So I’m still having struggles believing how a dev did this intentionally, unless as has been reported elsewhere in this thread, it was just a half-finished “alpha” build that got compiled into a release as a “new feature, untested/unproven, take it or leave it” bit of unfinished code.  That kind of intentionality I can understand....where this is an unfinished bit of code simply released as “intentionally” unfinished for no other reason than to call it a HomeComing “feature.” 

Remember that Homecoming is based off of SCORE, which is based off of Paragon code of indeterminate origin.  We don't know just where in the development stage Sentinels were or how much work had been done on them by the SCORE team to make them an in-game option.

[merrypessimist]

9 minutes ago, skoryy said:

Remember that Homecoming is based off of SCORE, which is based off of Paragon code of indeterminate origin.  We don't know just where in the development stage Sentinels were or how much work had been done on them by the SCORE team to make them an in-game option.

They were an entirely SCORE development as I recall.

[DrInfernus]

I like Sentinels. I don’t love them, but I like them. They’re fun. 
 

The AT definitely needs some fine-tuning, but it’s still fun as it is. 

[Plasmic Rage]

I rolled a Sentinel for the first time a few nights ago. Strictly street-sweeped my way up to level 20 just to run it fast and get a feel for the AT by not allowing any rest between mobs - the larger the better.

 

First of all, this is a very fun AT to play. Based on discussions in this thread (I only read about 25% of it) and in game, my expectations were low, but I was pleasantly surprised. I appreciate and welcome the idea that the AT will never be the most powerful because this leaves a good deal of headroom to give it other advantages beyond outright damage - we already have blasters, so the AT should go in a different direction. The mez protection idea, for example, is nice, but I have an alternative suggestion that gets away from numbers: give the AT the ability to attack and move simultaneously - this includes running, hover/fly, SJ - whatever, with no movement penalties. Attacking doesn't interrupt movement and movement doesn't prevent attacks from initiating.

 

It certainly would be a weird game mechanic for CoH, but this is a weird AT. It'll never be optimal in terms of damage or defense, but in the hands of an able player, the additional activity by not suffering any movement penalty or having to be rooted to the spot to perform an action adds potential for increased damage and likelihood of surviving some high-risk maneuvers giving it some tactical role in a group - rather than thought of as just being carried.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Plasmic Rage

[Dazl]

Sentinels will never be a min/maxer's dream, but it is cool that HC has brought us a new AT and hopefully they will bring us other new AT's. I have a level 50 fire/fire/fire sentinel, it does OK but I don't play it very much. I did level it from 1-50 without power leveling and it was an easy ride to 50. Rise of the Phoenix makes you nearly indestructible. I can understand the reduced range and damage to offset the damage mitigation of the secondary, but they could use a damage boost.

[Wilky]

i farm with my Sentinel (yes i'm serious)

have fun

[flakoff]

All ATs can't be the same as boring. I hardly play defenders but do play sentinals and enjoy them.

The main problem in coh is that everyone wants an unkillable AT that can solo everyting as fast as possible etc.

Some toons are weaker than others, so what, let people play what they enjoy regardless.

The team play was actually better without IOs so people helped and relied on each other, there are difficulty settings to help with soloing anyway on lower damage ATs.

Enjoy the game whatever, play whatever and enjoy your team mates and have fun!

Stop with the spread sheets and comparing stuff and realise you're lucky to be able to even still play the game.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2021 by flakoff

[Pixie_Knight]

You know, I find it kind of amusing. Back on live servers we use to always theory craft how badass a blaster with a defensive secondary instead of more offense (usually) would be. All the ranged and aoe power of a blaster, but the damage mitigation of a tanker or scrapper? We thought it would be overpowered, and thus why the CoH devs never considered implimenting it. You know, despite how much many wanted this exact thing. And now that we have just that... it's underwhelming at best, and boring at worst. Yeah, great, blaster with mez protection and resistance/regen/defense... And you're left thinking to yourself "I should have just made a blaster" or "I should have just made a scrapper". Mez protection is great, except a skilled blaster already knows what enemies to take out first. So mez protection isn't that big of a deal. Sure, you get a defensive set... but I think the values are on par with stalkers. But without all the little tricks stalkers have to make that weaker defense/resistance/regen and lower health work out. Sure, you're incredibly sturdy once your build gets going. But since you can just stand there and keep blasting, it lacks the engagement a scrapper, brute, stalker, or tanker have. You're not having to chase down enemies, reposition to make best use out of melee cone attacks, or anything like that. You just stand there (or hover there) as an artillery turret.

 

It's boring.

[Vanden]

1 hour ago, Pixie_Knight said:

All the ranged and aoe power of a blaster, but the damage mitigation of a tanker or scrapper? We thought it would be overpowered, and thus why the CoH devs never considered implimenting it. You know, despite how much many wanted this exact thing. And now that we have just that... it's underwhelming at best, and boring at worst.

 

Sentinels expressly don’t have all the range or damage of a Blaster, though.

[Pixie_Knight]

7 minutes ago, Vanden said:

 

Sentinels expressly don’t have all the range or damage of a Blaster, though.

 

But at the time, that's what we imagined. The power of a blaster, the defenses of a tanker (or scrapper at least),

[Vanden]

5 minutes ago, Pixie_Knight said:

But at the time, that's what we imagined. The power of a blaster, the defenses of a tanker (or scrapper at least),

 

I’m just saying, we still don’t have just that.

[Pixie_Knight]

And what we do have is.... kind of boring to play. I'd imagine if we got our wish, it'd still have ended up being boring.

[Bill Z Bubba]

5 hours ago, flakoff said:

The main problem in coh is that everyone wants an unkillable AT that can solo everyting as fast as possible etc.

 

Oh that's easy. Shield/EM tank.

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, Pixie_Knight said:

Sure, you get a defensive set... but I think the values are on par with stalkers. But without all the little tricks stalkers have to make that weaker defense/resistance/regen and lower health work out.

 

Stalkers do not have weaker defense or resistance than Scrappers.  They are the same.  The only difference in regen is due to the slight (10-15%) difference in hit points.  The secondary is changed slightly to accommodate Hide but overall values for defensive stats ends up the same.  Other than that, they are extremely similar in terms of survivability.  I imagine Sentinels are in the same ballpark, no?  I've yet to play one.

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, Pixie_Knight said:

 Sure, you get a defensive set... but I think the values are on par with stalkers. But without all the little tricks stalkers have to make that weaker defense/resistance/regen and lower health work out.

 

Stalkers and Scrappers have the same value armor. Stalkers just have less HP than Scrapper.

 

As for the Sentinel, I only dipped my toes in just a bit with a low 30s DP/Ice and it seemed pretty cool. The inherent is interesting but might require taking both tier 1 and 2 which isn't an issue for me. 

 

To buck the trend on suggestions, what if their inherent stayed the same but they added a toggle to the mix (unaffected by rech) that greatly increased the damage of your AoE powers... But further decreased their target cap? Flipping in and out of that mode too best utilize your attacks would be the name of the game and give a different dynamic to it's kind of blasting.

[Pixie_Knight]

I know stalkers and scrappers have the same caps, but I remember seeing slightly lower base values for Stalkers when they added the ability to see the real numbers. Haven't checked in years though. I do remember regen being less effective for stalkers due to them having less health though.

[Naraka]

8 minutes ago, Pixie_Knight said:

I know stalkers and scrappers have the same caps, but I remember seeing slightly lower base values for Stalkers when they added the ability to see the real numbers. Haven't checked in years though. I do remember regen being less effective for stalkers due to them having less health though.

We aren't talking about caps, we're talking about base numbers. They both get the same resistance from Dark Embrace, for example.

 

That said, I don't really know how sentinels compare to stalkers and scrappers. I never bothered to dig into it 

[Pixie_Knight]

Too durable to be fun as a ranged character (IMO), but not active enough to be engaging in melee.

[arcane]

27 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Oh that's easy. Shield/EM tank.

Do you need One With The Shield to get to unkillable status? I built my new one without it initially and am sort of regretting it. Defenses and DDR are spectacular but without the capacity to cap resistances sometimes I wouldn’t say I feel unkillable. 
 

Outside of the fact that my health bar can still move a bit though, it is indeed an incredible pairing.

 

I’d say I’m currently sitting at capped defenses, ~88% DDR, ~60-65% S/L/F/C res before SMotT procs and ~45% other res before SMotT procs. Think I need that T9.

Edited June 22, 2021 by arcane

[Bill Z Bubba]

25 minutes ago, arcane said:

Do you need One With The Shield to get to unkillable status?

 

Nope. It's currently in my build but I never use it and I'm about to respec out of it. Any extra mitigation I need I get fully from Rebirth +regen and the Tank AT IO +damres and +absorb procs.

 

Edit: Back on topic, it still confuses me just how often people ignore range as mitigation. This game doesn't throw out NEARLY as much damage at range as it does in melee and Sentinels sit pretty with mez protection, armor and can perpetually hover blast with no need to ever go into melee.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Bill Z Bubba

[UberGuy]

1 hour ago, Pixie_Knight said:

I know stalkers and scrappers have the same caps, but I remember seeing slightly lower base values for Stalkers when they added the ability to see the real numbers. Haven't checked in years though. I do remember regen being less effective for stalkers due to them having less health though.

 

That was all before any kind of real numbers, so all we had were dev comments and the published guide. And  the latter was  really innacurate. (I forget who the published that - I'm sure someone remembers - but they were well known for publishing inaccurate stuff in their guides.) But as far as I know, Stalkers have always had the same base scales as Scrappers on all armor-related modifiers.