Wayback machine: Fire tanks

[Techwright]

I was introduced yesterday to a gentleman with whom I will possibly work going forward and was delighted to learn he's an old school City of Heroes player.  He played until "they nerfed the fire tanks".  We didn't have time to talk of it more, but I'm curious what major nerfing of fire tanks occurred.  I'm assuming major, as it drove him from the game.  And if the community can pin down what it was, has it been altered since, possibly in Homecoming?

[Carnifax]

5 minutes ago, Techwright said:

I was introduced yesterday to a gentleman with whom I will possibly work going forward and was delighted to learn he's an old school City of Heroes player.  He played until "they nerfed the fire tanks".  We didn't have time to talk of it more, but I'm curious what major nerfing of fire tanks occurred.  I'm assuming major, as it drove him from the game.  And if the community can pin down what it was, has it been altered since, possibly in Homecoming?

I assume it was the Max Targets change from i3/4 that destroyed dumpster-herding as a "tactic". 

 

 

[Techwright]

Just now, Carnifax said:

I assume it was the Max Targets change from i3/4 that destroyed dumpster-herding as a "tactic". 

 

 

Hmm, I suppose I could see that, but that affected all tanks.  I gathered from what he was saying it was specific to fire tanks.  I had a fire tank back then, but he was a third-stringer, and I'd not have noticed anything major specific to the breed.  I did notice the "dumpster-herding" nerf on my other tanks.

[Carnifax]

Burn only has a 5 target limit now. No idea when that was put in. 

[InvaderStych]

Implementation of Burn causing "Afraid?"  Or did it originally make everything run away?

[arcane]

Burn was nerfed a lot but the big thing was the aggro cap.

 

But the game is better now for it. You’re allowed to do things on teams now besides waiting for the tank to do all the herding. Gathering a real

herd like we still do in ITF can now be a whole team’s job.

[PLVRIZR]

 

Engage @Sovera, the fire tank guru.

 

'nuff said.

[arcane]

14 minutes ago, PLVRIZR said:

 

Engage @Sovera, the fire tank guru.

 

'nuff said.

I’m pretty sure half the players in this game are more or less fiery aura gurus 😉

[PLVRIZR]

4 minutes ago, arcane said:

I’m pretty sure half the players in this game are more or less fiery aura gurus 😉

Fire/MA: the Brunker, and compilation of Fire Armor builds. - Tanker - Homecoming (homecomingservers.com)

 

[Greycat]

Yeah, there were  a few things that could be considered "fire tank nerfs," I mostly remember Burn causing everything to run away (JUST before I was high enough to pick it up, of course...) early on. But, yeah, it's hard to tell from just that if they mean "fire tank nerfs" or one of the many adjustments to tanks, taunting, etc. Most of the time I hear people (still) complaining about no longer being able to herd whole maps into a dumpster.

 

(Personally... having been on teams with that going on, I'm glad. Being able to DO stuff was much more fun than being told "Wait here while I herd the map." )

[Shenanigunner]

My charter main was a Fire/SS. That's him (cloned) over in the pitcher winda. Never felt nerfed, but then, I never farmed either.

[incantation]

Fire tanks are still great if you know how to play them.  

My mains been a fire/fire since birth. (Issue 1/ week 1).   The only thing that irritated me is when they did the brief running away from burn.   lol. 

[nihilii]

Fire Tankers were nerfed so many times and so hard, simply because they were grossly overpowered.

I don't think I even experienced the height of it, having started in the European beta. But I remember my I4 Fire/Ice Tanker. Burn was his attack power. Burn was his SOLE attack power. You literally did not need anything else. Whether you herded 100+ freakshow in a dumpster or let them gather around you normally, literally all you had to do was drop the Ice Patch and Burn in succession, and watch as everything melted in seconds.

 

It was so ridiculously broken.

 

There's been a lot of power creep over the years, especially since Homecoming, and it's easy to wonder if the memories we have of being OP would hold up of the current metagame of purpled out T4 incarnates. But I think oldschool Fire Tankers would still be up there, standing shoulder to shoulder with the strong builds of today.

[Black_Assassin]

2 hours ago, nihilii said:

Fire Tankers were nerfed so many times and so hard, simply because they were grossly overpowered.

I don't think I even experienced the height of it, having started in the European beta. But I remember my I4 Fire/Ice Tanker. Burn was his attack power. Burn was his SOLE attack power. You literally did not need anything else. Whether you herded 100+ freakshow in a dumpster or let them gather around you normally, literally all you had to do was drop the Ice Patch and Burn in succession, and watch as everything melted in seconds.

 

 

It was so ridiculously broken.

 

There's been a lot of power creep over the years, especially since Homecoming, and it's easy to wonder if the memories we have of being OP would hold up of the current metagame of purpled out T4 incarnates. But I think oldschool Fire Tankers would still be up there, standing shoulder to shoulder with the strong builds of today.

 

One of my early memories of playing CoH (i am 29 currently, so this must have been around the age of 13 ish) was when my dad heard of the hype around Fire/Ice tanks and his was in hollows and just had picked up burn. He just showed me as he mowed down about 4 or 5 entire mobs that he aggroed from over on the first hill. It was brutal. I have no other memory of Fire tanks from back then, but I can certainly imagine what a lvl 50 Fire/Ice tank could do with burn 6 slotted for damage on perma hasten.

[Snarky]

Working with someone who played the game for a few months until they fixed an obviously broken mechanic.  Okay.  Whatever floats your boat. 
 

personally i am pretty happy there is an agro cap

Edited October 7, 2021 by Snarky

[Techwright]

3 hours ago, nihilii said:

Fire Tankers were nerfed so many times and so hard, simply because they were grossly overpowered.

I don't think I even experienced the height of it, having started in the European beta. But I remember my I4 Fire/Ice Tanker. Burn was his attack power. Burn was his SOLE attack power. You literally did not need anything else. Whether you herded 100+ freakshow in a dumpster or let them gather around you normally, literally all you had to do was drop the Ice Patch and Burn in succession, and watch as everything melted in seconds.

 

It was so ridiculously broken.

 

There's been a lot of power creep over the years, especially since Homecoming, and it's easy to wonder if the memories we have of being OP would hold up of the current metagame of purpled out T4 incarnates. But I think oldschool Fire Tankers would still be up there, standing shoulder to shoulder with the strong builds of today.

 

I may understand a bit better now.  Playing a character for which you literally only use 2 buttons, one control, one attack, might be exciting briefly, but monotony would kick in pretty quickly.

[arcane]

5 hours ago, nihilii said:

Fire Tankers were nerfed so many times and so hard, simply because they were grossly overpowered.

I don't think I even experienced the height of it, having started in the European beta. But I remember my I4 Fire/Ice Tanker. Burn was his attack power. Burn was his SOLE attack power. You literally did not need anything else. Whether you herded 100+ freakshow in a dumpster or let them gather around you normally, literally all you had to do was drop the Ice Patch and Burn in succession, and watch as everything melted in seconds.

 

It was so ridiculously broken.

 

There's been a lot of power creep over the years, especially since Homecoming, and it's easy to wonder if the memories we have of being OP would hold up of the current metagame of purpled out T4 incarnates. But I think oldschool Fire Tankers would still be up there, standing shoulder to shoulder with the strong builds of today.

The fastest Fire/Ice tanker I knew was doing crazy things like slotting 6 microfilaments in Swift (back when HO’s had higher values). Because yeah, the build was wide open. Burn alone slaughtered entire maps with ease. In spite of all the power creep, An Incarnated Rad/Fire right now is still way slower at clearing the Dreck map than a Fire Tanker was back in the day.

[tidge]

On 10/6/2021 at 9:53 AM, InvaderStych said:

Implementation of Burn causing "Afraid?"  Or did it originally make everything run away?

 

This was the nerf. In the at-launch days, a Fire Tank could go to any zone that had DE Swarms and easily collect XP.

[Shenanigunner]

4 hours ago, Techwright said:

I may understand a bit better now.  Playing a character for which you literally only use 2 buttons, one control, one attack, might be exciting briefly, but monotony would kick in pretty quickly.

 

But farming! What are you, some kinda Commie?

 

😜

[Techwright]

1 hour ago, Shenanigunner said:

 

But farming! What are you, some kinda Commie?

 

😜

Do I look like I'm working a commune, comrade?  😛

[Ukase]

The big nerf to fire tanks was the fear built into burn. The Devs stated that it made no real sense for a mob to keep trying to hit someone while they were on fire. So, those of us on fire tanks would enter our Dreck map comprised of about 45 groups of Tanks, each with a couple of boss tanks that would self-rez so we could burn 'em down again...and as soon as we dropped burn, they'd run away, despite being taunted. Some would fire at range when they could, others would just keep running until you caught them. 

It was a pretty sad day for fire tanks, even those of us who could only farm a little bit with inspiration usage, or help from an emp flying overhead. Suddenly the one power we played and leveled our characters around had a useless power. So, a lot of folks just quit playing, as it was costing $15 a month back then. So, folks voted with their wallets. The Devs eventually got the message and took the fear out - but the damage had been done. 
 

[Glacier Peak]

21 minutes ago, Ukase said:

took the fear out - but the damage had been done. 

Great summation of Burn's nerf! Superb ending to your post, you could've even argued it was damage.... over... time 😆 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Glacier Peak

[Techwright]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

The big nerf to fire tanks was the fear built into burn....
 

Excellent summation!  Thank you very much!

[Hyperstrike]

Basically Fire Tanks are now Fire TANKS, and not back-door Scrapper/Brutes.

They can be built RIDICULOUSLY tough, with some nasty tricks for multiplying damage output.

[Sovera]

Voting with the wallet is the best thing. Not long forum diatribes which are then ignored even after reaching 20 pages of protests.