Explain Dual Blades combos

[Xandyr]

When DB first came out on Live, I rolled one. Played a few levels, then quit. I'm wanting to play powersets that I never really played before, so I think I'm gonna roll another DB toon. Unsure if I wanna go with a Tank, Brute, or Scrapper. Anyway, here's my question....

   I see that you have to take most of all the attacks because this one begins one combo, this other attack is needed for that combo, and this power is the finishing move needed for yet another combo. What exactly are these combos, their benefits, and do I have to take all these attacks and attack in a certain order?

  And lastly, should I make it a Tank, Brute, or Scrapper?

 

Appreciate it!

 

- X

[The_Warpact]

I always heard it was better on scrappers or stalkers. I never used it personally, the wife had one on a broot reminded me of a cuisinart lol.

That being said this is the only info I know of minus Mids of course.

 

https://cityofheroes.fandom.com/wiki/Dual_Blades

[Bill Z Bubba]

There's a good chart here: https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Dual_Blades
 

Or just skip the combos entirely. A lot of people run BF-AS-SS-AS as their single target attack chain. I'm very close to just BF-SS-AS-repeat.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Bill Z Bubba

[PLVRIZR]

1 hour ago, Xandyr said:

  And lastly, should I make it a Tank, Brute, or Scrapper?

 

 

I haven't remade him, yet, but I had a DB/WP scrap on Live, and he was a freaking blender on damage and pretty tanky, to boot.

[Xandyr]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

There's a good chart here: https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Dual_Blades
 

Or just skip the combos entirely. A lot of people run BF-AS-SS-AS as their single target attack chain. I'm very close to just BF-SS-AS-repeat.

Thanks for that link.

 I wonder what the -to hit and -Def #s are from the combos?

[Bill Z Bubba]

22 minutes ago, Xandyr said:

Thanks for that link.

 I wonder what the -to hit and -Def #s are from the combos?

 

There's a link at the bottom of the page going to the wayback machine and old forums showing this but I've no clue if it's still accurate.

 

Weaken: -10% tohit, -10% def for 20 s
Empower: +3.125% ToHit, +8% (all but scrapper) or +10% (scrapper) dmg for 10 s
Attack Vitals: 5x0.2 lethal DoT
Sweep: 0.57 lethal dmg, knockdown

[JnEricsonx]

On 10/31/2021 at 12:21 AM, PLVRIZR said:

 

I haven't remade him, yet, but I had a DB/WP scrap on Live, and he was a freaking blender on damage and pretty tanky, to boot.

I'll second that, as best as I can remember.

[ZorkNemesis]

Ultimately, the combos aren't reliable.  While they can be effective (Weaken is good for defenses and Attack Vitals is good extra damage), accuracy is always an issue and you end up whiffing combos somewhat often.  I think I recall hearing that if you're at the 95% hit chance you still have only an 84% or so combo success rate, though for all but Power Up your finisher is at least AoE.  The system is also clunky and you can potentially flub combos just by moving too quickly from one finisher to the next.  I do use them on my Fire/DB, but often if i'm surrounded i'm just blending things with my AoEs instead of focusing combos; usually more efficient.

 

I also personally skip Sweep.  One Thousand Cuts has a painfully long animation, and without OTC Power Slice is very easy to skip.  You can also easily get the knockdown benefits of Sweep from Avalanche or Overwhelming Force procs instead too (and you can put the other in Sweeping Slice which is real nice).

[PyroBeetle]

On 10/30/2021 at 11:49 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

Or just skip the combos entirely. A lot of people run BF-AS-SS-AS as their single target attack chain. I'm very close to just BF-SS-AS-repeat.

 

This...100% this. Build for recharge, forget the combos.

[Mr Pierce]

On 10/30/2021 at 10:49 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

There's a good chart here: https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Dual_Blades
 

Or just skip the combos entirely. A lot of people run BF-AS-SS-AS as their single target attack chain. I'm very close to just BF-SS-AS-repeat.

 

On 11/2/2021 at 5:06 AM, ZorkNemesis said:

Ultimately, the combos aren't reliable.  While they can be effective (Weaken is good for defenses and Attack Vitals is good extra damage), accuracy is always an issue and you end up whiffing combos somewhat often.  I think I recall hearing that if you're at the 95% hit chance you still have only an 84% or so combo success rate, though for all but Power Up your finisher is at least AoE.  The system is also clunky and you can potentially flub combos just by moving too quickly from one finisher to the next.  I do use them on my Fire/DB, but often if i'm surrounded i'm just blending things with my AoEs instead of focusing combos; usually more efficient.

 

I also personally skip Sweep.  One Thousand Cuts has a painfully long animation, and without OTC Power Slice is very easy to skip.  You can also easily get the knockdown benefits of Sweep from Avalanche or Overwhelming Force procs instead too (and you can put the other in Sweeping Slice which is real nice).

 

Would you say that this is still true with the changes they made in Issue 3? Combos don't have to hit to continue. I have a Bio/DB tank and I am not sure what powers to take from DB. I have room for most attacks, but was curious if it was worth it or if I am better off putting in stuff from power pools.

[Story Archer]

On 4/20/2022 at 5:21 PM, Mr Pierce said:

 

 

Would you say that this is still true with the changes they made in Issue 3? Combos don't have to hit to continue. I have a Bio/DB tank and I am not sure what powers to take from DB. I have room for most attacks, but was curious if it was worth it or if I am better off putting in stuff from power pools.

 

I'd be interested in a follow-up to this as well...

[Hjarki]

I'd call Dual Blades a 'failed experiment'. The combos are a neat idea but you're normally going to lose more setting them up than you get from landing them. If you just ignore the combo system and use the attacks for their intrinsic value, you'll normally do better. However, when you do that you're really just playing a gimpy version of Claws.

[Sovera]

3 hours ago, Story Archer said:

 

I'd be interested in a follow-up to this as well...

 

You can use the forum search. There is plenty of literature about it but only two ways to go at it.

[Haijinx]

When hunting zombies in Necro threads Dual Blades are a good option.

[Warboss]

I've been working up an Ice/DBer, and I like the pairing. I think Chilling Embrace and Icicles helps make up for misses (which seem to happen frequently). Of note, at 30-something he's not very IO'd and I haven't really started ramping up Accuracy or done anything to really improve or expand on the Secondary. I'm sure with some strategic procinig things can be improved. I will say I'm  not a big fan of the "builder sets", that is sets that require one power to build up to another, because .... you miss.

[Story Archer]

Well, I've played one now til 45 and I've found the attack chain(s) that work for Me. I take 5 attack powers: NS, AS, TE, BF & SS. The first three give me the Weaken combo which never loses its usefulness, especially against large groups. BF does what it does and SS gives me a second, quick-animating AoE attack. I'm able to chain those five attacks very smoothly without near the +Recharge a shorter chain might need and get great efficiency and value out of it. When my foes get whittled down to one or two, I just change over to the Empower combo and continue on without TE. Works superbly well for me.

 

So...

vs. large groups: BF -> NS -> AS -> TE -> SS

vs. single targets: BF -> SS -> NS -> AE

 

I'm pairing it with Willpower for anyone who might want to know.

 

[Ashford]

Explain DB?

 

Katana builds players

 

thought I should add the joke since people explained it more or less

Edited April 19 by Ashford

[Story Archer]

1 hour ago, Ashford said:

Explain DB?

 

Katana builds players

thought I should add the joke since people explained it more or less

 

DB means Dual Blades - is that what you're asking?

[Sovera]

6 hours ago, Story Archer said:

 

DB means Dual Blades - is that what you're asking?

 

No, the joke is how DB can only mimic a fraction of Katana's power.

[ExeErdna]

19 hours ago, Ashford said:

Explain DB?

 

Katana builds players
 

thought I should add the joke since people explained it more or less

I agree, one of my old 50s was a katana/SR tanker. SR failed me more than Katana did, I felt strong. I picked up DB in more test builds the problem with DB it either needs more combo paths or be a bit more naturally accurate. Both wouldn't be bad, yet as of now I just found myself rotating just Empower and Attack Vitals not even bothering with Sweep and rarely using Weaken. IMO DB feels like a more complex version of Claws since they both have a clear rotation to attempt to keep the attack boost up as long as possible. 

[Erratic1]

Thank heaven I did not see this thread before starting my Bio/DB Tanker, which turns out to be a surprisingly fast and fun build (at least around level 30).

 

On the other hand, if Katana is all that....

[00Troy00]

On 4/18/2024 at 6:30 PM, Story Archer said:

Well, I've played one now til 45 and I've found the attack chain(s) that work for Me. I take 5 attack powers: NS, AS, TE, BF & SS. The first three give me the Weaken combo which never loses its usefulness, especially against large groups. BF does what it does and SS gives me a second, quick-animating AoE attack. I'm able to chain those five attacks very smoothly without near the +Recharge a shorter chain might need and get great efficiency and value out of it. When my foes get whittled down to one or two, I just change over to the Empower combo and continue on without TE. Works superbly well for me.

 

So...

vs. large groups: BF -> NS -> AS -> TE -> SS

vs. single targets: BF -> SS -> NS -> AE

 

I'm pairing it with Willpower for anyone who might want to know.

 

How well do you solo with this?

[Erratic1]

On 8/23/2024 at 10:02 PM, 00Troy00 said:

How well do you solo with this?

 

Guessing @Story Archer is playing an IO'd build as the sequences listed (and statement about switching to a combo after whittling things down) suggests not using combo for the most part. So long as BF can be cycled to keep the +Hit/Damage up it seems it could be an elegant selection of powers getting you two area attacks and making what would otherwise be lighter single target attacks heftier.

 

FWIW, my Bio/DB character is now up to 44 (should be 45 here in a bit), though not IO'd in the least and routinely makes use of Empower and Sweep. One I do get him IO'd, I plan to drop two powers (PS and TE), so Sweep will no longer be available. 

[R jobbus]

On 4/18/2024 at 9:38 PM, Ashford said:

Explain DB?

 

Katana builds players

 

thought I should add the joke since people explained it more or less

 

Can I get a good look at some great katana tanker builds? if anyone has them. I was interested in doing DB but if katana is where it's at, I'm more interested in that. I've done katana/bio so much on scrapper, and I love it, but there are certain things that it simply cannot survive.

 

I love my tankers but I have only used SD and I cant use some of the more fun secondaries with it, so what's best for katana?  should I just go invul?

[ZemX]

On 6/23/2024 at 12:22 AM, Erratic1 said:

Thank heaven I did not see this thread before starting my Bio/DB Tanker, which turns out to be a surprisingly fast and fun build (at least around level 30).

 

On the other hand, if Katana is all that....

 

See also the "what does 'underpowered' mean?" thread in General.  Basically, we are quibbling over some percentage of DPS that will bother a min/max gamer... and nobody else.

 

And I think some of Katana's fame is almost certainly down to said min/max builds with -RES and damage procs.   You'd think its lethal damage would hamper it, but it ends up pretty highly ranked for DPS when you IO it out.

 

I've done Rad/Kat on a tanker and it's fun.  I posted a Rad/BS variation of the build in the recent Broadsword thread here.  But it's not one of those damage-tweaked proc-monster builds either.  I like it, but for a basic tanky build, I prefer something with larger AoE like Ice Melee or Battle Axe.   Possibly the only reason I haven't dipped into DB myself is that I find the animations to be a bit robotic and the sound effects... weird, somehow.  Maybe I just need a robot tanker concept. 🤪