Require Two Level 50 Characters to Get XP in AE

[Doomguide2005]

    Sorry but no.  There's all sorts of issues with the proposal.  Many of them mentioned through this thread.  The biggest in my view is it doesn't solve a perceived problem I'm not convinced even exists in sufficient quantity to be worth solving via anything beyond needing to occasionally respond in chat about how to get someplace and what requirements might be involved in doing so.  There are entire chat channels dedicated to Help that can solve the vast majority of these issues.  If as a team leader/star one can't be bothered to help a teammate I'm not sure the game community doesn't have a bigger issue than the occasional totally wet behind the ears player seeking answers to what is considered a 'duh' question.

[Blood Speaker]

On 1/1/2022 at 2:45 PM, Solarverse said:

 

That is not my point though, man. Also, I don't assume that. My point is, is that there most certainly are new players who are being power leveled to 50...nobody seems to want to admit that though, they use these examples and think that it excuses any and all cases of PLed 50s.

No problem with admitting new players are being PLed to 50; I just don't see it as the stress-inducing issue you seem to perceive it as. My suggested solution, made earlier, still stands: help them, and move on. Such an approach aids every other character they create, after that.

 

If you train them, they're not new, anymore.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Blood Speaker

[Solarverse]

22 minutes ago, Blood Speaker said:

No problem with admitting new players are being PLed to 50; I just don't see it as the stress-inducing issue you seem to perceive it as. My suggested solution, made earlier, still stands: help them, and move on. Such an approach aids every other character they create, after that.

 

If you train them, they're not new, anymore.

 

Not laughing at you, but with you. Good point.  😄

[ShardWarrior]

5 hours ago, Blood Speaker said:

No problem with admitting new players are being PLed to 50; I just don't see it as the stress-inducing issue you seem to perceive it as. My suggested solution, made earlier, still stands: help them, and move on. Such an approach aids every other character they create, after that.

 

If you train them, they're not new, anymore.

 

Totally agree with helping others. 

 

I have yet to encounter a brand new player who was PL'ed right out to the tutorial.  And no offense meant, given the criteria of how these supposed "new players" were deemed "new", I question whether those players really were new. 

[golstat2003]

On 1/1/2022 at 8:23 PM, MHertz said:

I will admit that it is theoretically possible for someone to be PLed to 50 and have no working knowledge of the game or the zones or the locations of stuff. I have not yet, to my knowledge, ever met a player that I could be reasonably sure would fit this profile. So yes, you could be right. In theory. Lord willin’ an’ the crick don’t rise, with grace o’ God and a long-handled spoon.

 

That’s not the problem people have with your position.

 

There are tons of characters who PLed to 50 that lack those badges and accolades … but still know how to play.

 

There are plenty of characters who played some non-PL way to 50, lack certain badges and accolades, and don’t know how to play.

 

There are plenty of characters who played some non-PL way to 50, lack certain badges and accolades, and also know how to play. They just don’t care about badges and accolades.

 

The problem is that you seem to want us to agree with certainty that a given set of symptoms (lack of badges, accolades, game knowledge) automatically means the player is an incapable neophyte with a PL baby. And we can’t. There are too many other reasons why someone could not know (or not care) about the things you think should be dispositive indicators of experience. And we obviously can’t be certain that the AE was the cause.

 

Yep I don't think ANY of my characters have any accolades, and I sure as hell know how to play the game. Been here since beta on live.

[golstat2003]

And just in case it wasn't clear I 100% DISAGREE with the OPs suggestion for all the coherent and logical reasons given already in this thread.

 

Or as the kids say nowadays /jranger.

[Glacier Peak]

On 12/30/2021 at 9:23 AM, Glacier Peak said:

@Apparition we're three pages deep in to this thread; what is your take on the reactions to this suggestion?

@Apparition we're six pages deep in to this thread; what is your take on the responses from other posters to this suggestion?

[Solarverse]

On 1/4/2022 at 8:58 AM, ZacKing said:

Yup exactly.  I've never run into any of these PL'ed brand new players either.  

 

Never? Like, ever? Lucky you...

I run in to them here and there. Not often, but when it happens it's painfully obvious.

Then you look at their badges and see nothing, nodda. They are level 50 and they don't even have the first damage badge as damage dealers, or the first healing badge as a healer, or the first damage taken badge as a Tanker, they have no exploration badges or even "you killed X amount of Z's" badges.

People are saying you can't tell based on badges, I disagree strongly. Sure, you can't tell from the badges alone, but if I have even bothered to look at your badge, it's because you have given several clues that you know absolutely nothing about the game or even how to get anywhere and you gave me every reason in the world to test my suspicion and check out your nonexistent badges.

They say you can't tell if somebody has been PLed or not based on badges....they are wrong. You might not be able to tell if somebody new was PLed to 50, but you can sure tell if that 50 was PLed to 50 until they start getting some content under their belts.

But yeah, the PLed brand new players are out there, all one needs to do to get a slight understanding of this is to head to your nearest AE farm and watch all the beggars pleading for somebody to power level them. I have literally, out of pure twisted curiosity sat in an AE while chatting with an old friend who I have not spoken to in a while,  and watched how long people will stand around and beg. There were two characters in particular, one male, one female, both begging like crazy in both local and LFG chat for well over an hour. That is an hour they could have been leveling, but instead insist on begging for an hour (or more, I couldn't stand to stomach it any longer after an hour's time) instead of actually playing the game. Now, I don't know if they were new or not, but that is some pretty messed up crap right there if you ask me. What I will say is this, a new player comes in, somebody invites them to an AE team and next thing they know they are 50 in no time. It feeds an addiction. Anything with an instant gratification attached to it can become an addiction.

 

To play it off like players like this do not exist is a grievous statement. We know they exist. Are they as big of a problem as everyone says they are? I don't know. But I do know they are a big enough problem that people trickle in to these forums often enough to keep the subject popping. Of course these people get dog piled and they give it up, but then soon after another person will make another post. So players are certainly experiencing this in game or these types of threads would not keep popping up.

Now, folks down thumbs me down all you like, but it won't stop these threads from popping up.

So how about we all stop pretending like it's not a problem and start asking the real question? Can anything even be done about it, and should anything be done about it?

 

Answer: No. First, there isn't much we can do about it. People will always find a way and people will always power level noobs. This has been a problem since Fire Tanks herding maps, it won't be going away. Best thing that can be done is like somebody earlier told me. If you run across a noob who does something stupid because he power leveled to 50, help the chump learn so that he stops being a chump. It's all we can do.

[Bill Z Bubba]

44 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

If you run across a noob who does something stupid because he power leveled to 50, help the chump learn so that he stops being a chump. It's all we can do.

 

They could also stop griping about it on the forums and stop attempting to nerf powerleveling.

 

 

What a PLed ignorant newb looks like. No way this guy knows anything about this game.

 

Edit: For the record, this was a random pick. I only logged him on because I'm about to delete him and re-PL him as a brute.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[Solarverse]

7 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

They could also stop griping about it on the forums and stop attempting to nerf powerleveling.

 

 

What a PLed ignorant newb looks like. No way this guy knows anything about this game.

 

Edit: For the record, this was a random pick. I only logged him on because I'm about to delete him and re-PL him as a brute.

 

You noob! lol

[ZacKing]

8 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Never? Like, ever? Lucky you...

 

No I really haven't.  I've yet to come across anyone who says they're completely new to the game.   I've teamed with a lot of old players who recently came back, but that's isn't a new player to me.  I just don't see this as the huge problem you're trying to make it out to be.  

 

8 hours ago, Solarverse said:

People are saying you can't tell based on badges, I disagree strongly. Sure, you can't tell from the badges alone, but if I have even bothered to look at your badge, it's because you have given several clues that you know absolutely nothing about the game or even how to get anywhere and you gave me every reason in the world to test my suspicion and check out your nonexistent badges.

 

That isn't what people are saying though.  You had posted that people with low badge counts who don't know where Steel Canyon is automatically means they are some PL'ed new player.  Others gave lots of examples that refute that.  

[Solarverse]

54 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

 

No I really haven't.  I've yet to come across anyone who says they're completely new to the game.   I've teamed with a lot of old players who recently came back, but that's isn't a new player to me.  I just don't see this as the huge problem you're trying to make it out to be.  

 

 

That isn't what people are saying though.  You had posted that people with low badge counts who don't know where Steel Canyon is automatically means they are some PL'ed new player.  Others gave lots of examples that refute that.  

 

Nobody gave an example of somebody who actually played the game without being PLed who didn't have at very least a kill badge, or damage taken badge or healing badge or any other number of badge they could have if they didn't PL. That would be extremely difficult to do unless you just stood by the door while the team ran missions. Also, I didn't say it automatically means they were PLed, but it is a pretty good indication.

[ZacKing]

30 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

Nobody gave an example of somebody who actually played the game without being PLed who didn't have at very least a kill badge, or damage taken badge or healing badge or any other number of badge they could have if they didn't PL. That would be extremely difficult to do unless you just stood by the door while the team ran missions. Also, I didn't say it automatically means they were PLed, but it is a pretty good indication.

 

It's not an indication of anything.  There's people with hundreds badges who still don't understand what they're doing.  I have at least half a dozen alts in various states of being PLed that don't have any defeat badges.  I have other characters that have over a thousand badges.  If I'm running one of my alts on a TF with you, does that make me a PL'ed noob?  you're really trying to make this into a huge problem that just doesn't really exist.  it's nowhere near as rampant as you're claiming it is and the criteria you're using isn't exactly solid.  It seems to be biased on your prejudices.

 

 

[Apparition]

14 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

@Apparition we're six pages deep in to this thread; what is your take on the responses from other posters to this suggestion?

 

 

The feedback is interesting, but ultimately I disagree with most of it.  IMO, AE has done tremendous damage to the game since it was introduced.  Almost immediately after Mission Architect was added, the game was flooded with AE babies.  It got so bad that I was ready to move to Champions Online and kiss CoH goodbye... but then the Champions Online launch day patch happened.

 

This suggestion isn't even really my preferred solution to the problem, although it would be better than nothing.  IMO, if it were up to me, I'd lower experience while in AE to 25%, lower experience while on newspaper and radio missions to 50%, and charge a ton of INF for the 50% and double XP boosters.  Newspaper and radio mission Council farms are just as bad as AE for churning out low information CoH players.

 

Admittedly, I've only experienced these issues twice since moving to Torchbearer, but while I was on Excelsior, I frequently ran into new players... many on level 50 characters... who had no real idea how to play the game.  Some had no idea how to get to another zone except for the base macro exploit.  Many assumed that an ITF could be ran at +4x8 with only one level 50 character on the team, because... after all... they were PLed up on AE farms and/or Council radio mission farms with only one level 50 character on the team, so it must be able to be done, right?  Indeed, some even complained if the team leader dared to run the ITF on a lower difficulty when the team composition was clearly not up for the task of running the ITF at +4x8, and insisted that it be run at +4x8.  I can't count how many people quit or logged off while in the middle of a TF, SF, or trial, because they thought that it was just another newspaper or radio mission with more variety that they could leave at any time.  I'm talking even level 50 TFs, SFs, and Trials, like Apex TF and Tin Mage TF.  That's all just a tip of the iceberg.

[Ghost]

One way to slow down and/or curb some power levelling -> put a cap on the number of levels that can be obtained per hour/day (just throwing it out there, not for discussion or to be told how foolish I am)

 

I mainly play on Excelsior, so I cant really speak on the other servers.

I have run across some 50's that had no idea what they were doing. How to travel.  What their own powers did or were capable of.  I even came across a 50 that had no enhancements at all. 

However, it is not very often. 

Would I like a level to be a true indication of their experiences? yes, of course.   The other day, I saw a toon that was less than 45 days old, with a veteran level over 200.   All I did was shake my head, and move along.

This issue is not ruining the game, or even my enjoyment of the game.

It means nothing.  Just like forum post count is not an indication of knowledge, or insight.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Ghost

[PeregrineFalcon]

43 minutes ago, Apparition said:

This suggestion isn't even really my preferred solution to the problem, although it would be better than nothing.  IMO, if it were up to me, I'd lower experience while in AE to 25%, lower experience while on newspaper and radio missions to 50%, and charge a ton of INF for the 50% and double XP boosters.  Newspaper and radio mission Council farms are just as bad as AE for churning out low information CoH players.

Look, I get it. Level 50 noobs make PuGing more difficult and/or annoying. As someone who PuGs a lot with my main, a tank, I agree with you that noobs can make playing the game aggravating. Lowering AE and/or radio mission XP won't help. They're not the problem.

 

The problem is that people now days think they know everything and won't listen to others and refuse to admit that they're even capable of making a mistake. Look, I work at a law firm. Every day I talk to people who say stupid things to me like "That's illegal!" And I usually respond with some variation of "What exactly is it about your part time job stocking shelves at Walmart that leads you to believe that you know more about the law than I do? What's next? Will you be going to a doctor's office next and giving them advice on how to perform surgery?"

 

Now, years ago, when I gave this little spiel people would calm down, admit that they were being silly, and then actually listen to me. Now days people just get upset, say that I'm rude, and demand to speak to the manager. Then I give my best cheshire cat grin and calmly explain that I am the manager.

 

My point is that stopping farming and PLing and killing AE experience and preventing insta-50's and whatever else isn't going to have the effect that you think it will have. None of these things are going to magically make players smarter or more willing to listen to direction. There's only one thing that's going to make your teammates smarter and more fun to play the game with.

 

Make friends.

 

Trust me when I tell you that if have a couple of friends that play the game with you then you'll completely stop caring about what other people are doing in the game. You won't care about PLing or farming or anything else. And you'll be happier for it.

Edited January 12, 2022 by PeregrineFalcon
Added a new thought.

[Hyperstrike]

While I agree with the basic sentiment behind the original proposition, I'm gonna /jranger.

It falls under the heading of "telling other people how to play/have fun".

As an advocate of personal choice, I'm rather violently opposed to that...

[ShardWarrior]

3 hours ago, Apparition said:

Admittedly, I've only experienced these issues twice since moving to Torchbearer, but while I was on Excelsior, I frequently ran into new players... many on level 50 characters... who had no real idea how to play the game. 

 

Not to diminish your experience as I have no reason to doubt you, however my personal experience is wildly different than yours.  I migrated from Torchbearer to Excelsior many months ago and I have yet to encounter any player that is brand new to the game, let alone one that was PLed to 50 right out of the tutorial.  I am online daily joining and leading PUGs for all sorts of activities.  I am being honest here, I just do not see the problem you are seeing.

 

Are there players who I feel play badly?  Absolutely.  Are there players who will not remember how to get places?  Absolutely.  I started playing CoH back in BETA and I still do not know everything there is to know about the game.  I do not remember a lot of things.  Personally, I think it a mistake to judge people on badge counts or how they want to play or what the extent of their game knowledge is.  If you encounter someone who does not know something, take it as an opportunity to teach them instead of berate them.  Bemoaning them on the forums here is not helping to build a welcoming community. 

 

I totally agree with what @PeregrineFalcon posted above.  Make friends and team with them.  That is what friends lists are for.  He is also spot on in that completely removing AE and radios and whatever other content you do not like is not going to have the affect you think it will.  Players who play badly are still going to play badly regardless and will just find another mission to farm. 

 

It just seems silly to me to read people complaining about others begging for PLs who then go to the AE building to hang out and observe people doing something that totally annoys them.  That is just odd. 

[ShardWarrior]

3 hours ago, Ghost said:

One way to slow down and/or curb some power levelling -> put a cap on the number of levels that can be obtained per hour/day (just throwing it out there, not for discussion or to be told how foolish I am)

 

This would directly and adversely impact running back to back TFs/SFs or any mission content really.  Many people use TFs as means for leveling.

Edited January 12, 2022 by ShardWarrior

[biostem]

4 hours ago, Ghost said:

One way to slow down and/or curb some power levelling -> put a cap on the number of levels that can be obtained per hour/day (just throwing it out there, not for discussion or to be told how foolish I am)

 

You posting on a forum, by definition, opens it up for discussion;  You may not want to participate in the conversation further, but there it is.  Regardless, trying to dictate how others play has always worked well in the past...  

[Luminara]

25 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Make friends and team with them.

 

I tried that.  I was arrested for grave robbing and all of my scientific equipment was taken away.  😞

[Ghost]

11 minutes ago, biostem said:

 

You posting on a forum, by definition, opens it up for discussion;  You may not want to participate in the conversation further, but there it is.  Regardless, trying to dictate how others play has always worked well in the past...  

 

I was simply throwing out something I hadn’t seen suggested yet.

I didn’t want to discuss it because it’s not something I have that strong an opinion on.

 

As for dictating play style - umm, reread what I wrote.

[TheZag]

Ive teamed with app and he does help the players ingame.  Its the times when you are starting a positron and a lvl 50 doesnt know how to get out of atlas park.  Ill admit its rare,  ive probably only seen it happen twice myself.  But when it does happen it makes you wonder how someone can achieve the maximum level and not have the very basic ingame knowledge of how to change zones.  

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Ghost said:

As for dictating play style - umm, reread what I wrote.

 

I did.  You put forth a suggestion of limiting XP gain rate, as a way of reducing PL-ing.  That is, by definition, dictating a particular playstyle...

[PeregrineFalcon]

I'll admit that that's probably really annoying when a level 50 doesn't know how to get to Peregrine Island or Steel Canyon.  But is that rare instance of someone not knowing how to navigate to another zone really enough of an issue to reduce/kill XP in the AE or radio missions?

 

The way I see it, the purpose of this thread is to advocate for a change that will either:

1. Improve the knowledge of players so that PuGs aren't so bad, or:
2. Force others to play the game the way the OP wants them to play it.

This change won't solve problem 1, and 2 isn't a problem when people mind their own business and stop worrying so much about what other people are doing on their own free time.

 

If some n00b got themselves PL'd up to 50 and they want to start enjoying the game now, good for them! Let them play the game the way they want to. They'll learn soon enough that they either like the game or they don't. If they don't then it doesn't matter cause they'll just quit playing. If they do like it then they're more likely to actually play their next character up to 50.

 

Either way it doesn't hurt you. Just kick the AE Baby from your PuG and move on. Or, here's an idea, help them out and explain stuff to them and maybe they'll want to stick around and learn to actually play the game.