Can combat escort NPCs have their AI set to "defensive" rather than "aggressive"?

[Placta]

I did the Neuron/Anti-Matter mission today. In that mission, you get three NPCs to... I don't know, I think they're supposed to help you somehow. I can't imagine how.

 

First up, there was Day. She spawned in that one lab room that's kinda divided in two with all the equipment in one half, a high area in the other overlooking the rest of the room. I'm in the half with the equipment when she activates and starts attacking everything in sight. When I finally get to her, she's down to half health, and I've got no way to heal her. So I try to back her off so she can passively regenerate, but there are still Clockwork in the room. She finally stopped attacking everything when the damage got to be too much.

 

Fillion's up next. I met him in the Lab Equipment room. He went after the Lab Equipment. I left him to be a dumbass. He may have gotten himself blown up. He stopped following me, at any rate.

 

In the last room, just before Anti-Matter, I met Harris. I wanted to wait for Light Form to cycle (I'm a little short of perma, and it seems to know exactly when the worst moment to crash is) before starting the fight, but oh my god he just ran in and my fight-or-flight reflex ticked to fight. He dropped and Light Form crashed; fortunately I had enough inspirations to survive until it came back up but it was not a good time.

 

Anyway, my point is (tl;dr): Can we have guys like this NOT be aggro monkeys? (General Aarons, I'm also looking at you.)

[Frozen Burn]

While I understand your frustration with this case and this particular mission, not all in the game are set to "Aggressive."  Some are set to "defensive" in other missions and other arcs.  They all seem across the board to follow their own story/character on whether they would be aggressive or defensive.  

 

For me, when I come across an aggressive one, I ignore them and let them do their thing -- and if they get killed, so be it.  And most of the time, they take aggro off me and i can work to complete the objective easier.

[Greycat]

5 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

For me, when I come across an aggressive one, I ignore them and let them do their thing -- and if they get killed, so be it.  And most of the time, they take aggro off me and i can work to complete the objective easier.

 

The problem is when they're the *point* of the mission - such as the "rescue the negotiators" arc from serpent drummer (second arc in his series?) where if they die, you fail. Granted, you have some slight control, as you have to rescue them before they aggro anything, but it's *really* annoying that we have to have workarounds to keep them alive. I try to do those missions solo so they dont' just attach to someone else or get rescued early and go haring off and getting killed in a giant group.

 

It's annoying that "learn to skip groups" and "this is how you lose them in a safe area" are meta-skills to learn in the game to deal with ridiculous AI.

[srmalloy]

3 hours ago, Greycat said:

The problem is when they're the *point* of the mission

The early-game example of this being Lady Jane, who will happily run off and engage any CoT she sees after you rescue her and are trying to lead her to the chest.

[Uun]

Lady Grey is another. There are two missions where you have to rescue her, after which an ambush spawns. She has a complete death wish. I've successfully completed the Nemesis one without her dying (by clearing the rest of the map before freeing her), but I don't think I've ever completed the Vanguard Swords one without her getting killed. For "one of the most powerful meta-humans on the planet" she should get more hit points or better armor. Also, since she's a dark defender, she should get Darkest Night.

[Luminara]

This is an accurate description of the AI in this game.

[TheZag]

As a hero rescuing someone,  it makes sense that you would be able to issue commands to them.  Follow me,  its dangerous - wait there,  im rescuing you - dont attack anyone.

 

Im not saying every NPC should obey based on their personalities,  but a little pet window that has follow and wait would be nice.

[Wobegone]

16 hours ago, Placta said:

I did the Neuron/Anti-Matter mission today. In that mission, you get three NPCs to... I don't know, I think they're supposed to help you somehow. I can't imagine how.

If you can manage to get and keep agro off them, they do a ton of damage.  

[starro]

Lady Grey/Jane/Whatever wants to charge into the COT mobs, aggro them all and the waves keep coming.  No, just stand in one place and deal with the waves one at a time and keep her in one spot.

[EyeLuvBooks]

This is one of the reasons why 'rescue' and 'escort' missions are the ones most skipped. I would LOVE to see some sort of change to this.

[Doomguide2005]

     LOL at Lady Jane.  First encountered her in the closed beta.  I had never seen an npc rocket off into the foes the way she did.  I freed her and had just enough time for my brain to register a "WTF!" before she was 3+ spawns deep in CoT and dead.  Couldn't even say for sure if she was aggro'd on them or she was simply making a beeline for the chest it happened so fast.  But yes it would be great if the players didn't have to engage in such a degree of meta gaming to be successful or prevent the near instant annihilation of a combat hostage.

[Luminara]

3 hours ago, TheZag said:

a little pet window that has follow and wait would be nice.

 

I'd settle for a "YOU DIE NOW, YOU USELESS MOTHERFUCKER" button.

[Luminara]

50 minutes ago, EyeLuvBooks said:

This is one of the reasons why 'rescue' and 'escort' missions are the ones most skipped.

 

They're also the least rewarding, from a time input perspective.  In any mission with more than one escort, the player has to detour to collect NPCs, and the player is sometimes forced to make several trips from NPC to exit to NPC to exit... one can cover the length of the map several times, but gains nothing for performing the equivalent of 2-5 missions (counting each NPC escorted to the door as a separate mission).  We are, in essence, doing 2+ times the work as we would on missions without escorts, at higher risk (goodbye stealth power, and the corresponding Defense buff) and/or the expense of other buffs (such as Assassin Strike), for a "thanks, you didn't completely fuck it up" pat on the back.

 

The mission completion reward should be multiplied for each escort, and for missions with NPCs which can be defeated, a reward equivalent to the mission reward should be awarded when the NPC is captured/freed.

[A Cat]

2 hours ago, EyeLuvBooks said:

This is one of the reasons why 'rescue' and 'escort' missions are the ones most skipped. I would LOVE to see some sort of change to this.

That and how bad they are at keeping up. Since I know it would cause the code to spill out of every orifice to try to implement the ability to carry rescued people out of there like a sack of potatoes, I would settle for being able to teleport all npc followers and command then to stay. 

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

In any mission with more than one escort, the player has to detour to collect NPCs, and the player is sometimes forced to make several trips from NPC to exit to NPC to exit...

In the 'rescue the homeless people' mission you get around levels 6-9, what I generally try to do is clear the captors for each hostage, but stay far enough away from them (with stealth if I have it) as I go deeper into the sewer map until I clear the last room, then turn off any stealth and head back to the entrance, sweeping by each hostage as I go to trigger their follow logic. Depending on the map layout, I may be able to reach the entrance before the ambushes show up, or duck far enough into a side branch that they run past me without aggroing, but in any case, it's only one trip out, not three.

[Placta]

17 minutes ago, A Cat said:

That and how bad they are at keeping up. Since I know it would cause the code to spill out of every orifice to try to implement the ability to carry rescued people out of there like a sack of potatoes, I would settle for being able to teleport all npc followers and command then to stay. 

 

Oh Lord, Warburg. I get that the scientists are nearsighted and I have to turn off stealth so they can see me. I get that they're not in great physical shape so I have to turn off Sprint (even if I don't have a stealth IO in there) and still stop every 50 feet so I don't get too far ahead. Do they have to be so dumb they have to be manually led around every loose cobblestone?

[Greycat]

59 minutes ago, Placta said:

 

Oh Lord, Warburg. I get that the scientists are nearsighted and I have to turn off stealth so they can see me. I get that they're not in great physical shape so I have to turn off Sprint (even if I don't have a stealth IO in there) and still stop every 50 feet so I don't get too far ahead. Do they have to be so dumb they have to be manually led around every loose cobblestone?

 

And then ten minutes while they try to figure out the complex structure known as a "ramp."

[PeregrineFalcon]

Lady Jane? Ok, that's true. But I can't believe that we're talking about crazy aggressive NPCs getting themselves killed and no one's mentioned the OG, Fusionette!  😃

[Frozen Burn]

12 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

The problem is when they're the *point* of the mission - such as the "rescue the negotiators" arc from serpent drummer (second arc in his series?) where if they die, you fail. Granted, you have some slight control, as you have to rescue them before they aggro anything, but it's *really* annoying that we have to have workarounds to keep them alive. I try to do those missions solo so they dont' just attach to someone else or get rescued early and go haring off and getting killed in a giant group.

 

It's annoying that "learn to skip groups" and "this is how you lose them in a safe area" are meta-skills to learn in the game to deal with ridiculous AI.

 

That's obvious that when they're the objective to save, you can't ignore them.  But that wasn't what the OP was talking about in their example.  And even if they are an objective to rescue, I am ok with them being aggressive -- if it fits their character / who they are / story content -- as it provides a better story and better challenge for game-play.  ...but that's me.  🙂  

[Placta]

18 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

That's obvious that when they're the objective to save, you can't ignore them.  But that wasn't what the OP was talking about in their example.  And even if they are an objective to rescue, I am ok with them being aggressive -- if it fits their character / who they are / story content -- as it provides a better story and better challenge for game-play.  ...but that's me.  🙂  

 

Not the specific long example, but I did nod to General Aarons from that Serpent Drummer mission. (And if I'd thought of Lady Jane, I'd have mentioned her as well, although I haven't had trouble with her recently... AI fix? I've done the mission so many times I know how to handle it?)

 

And frankly, if all a NPC is going to do is cause chaos until they get themselves dead, I'd rather they not be there at all.

[lemming]

Lady Jane, I tend to blow past her group and start back from the chest clearing everything which makes it much easier.  Though I did it recently and noticed she wasn't as agro oriented.   Maybe her per was tuned down?

 

That's my usual pattern for hostages that fight. Get rid of anything between them and the entrance.

 

On ones where you lead someone out without having to fight, I will occasionally turn on walk and saunter to the exit.  Works well with stalkers even...

[biostem]

We should be able to knock them out and give 'em the ole "fireman's carry" if need be - make it so you can't attack while doing so, and the only power you have is "place down person"...

[Wobegone]

There are some strange responses in this thread.  First, the op wasn't referring to 'rescue and escort' missions.  They specifically referenced npcs who join you during the mission.  Yea, sure they're not the brightest bulbs out there, but if you know they're there and are proactive and aggressive yourself, they do a lot of damage.   I've done the mission the OP referred to many times (it's part of the AVs needed for Portal Jockey).  When you come across them, get aggressive yourself.  They'll help you wreck spawns.  

[Sovera]

What's her name... The doctor we rescue during Moonfire. I usually solo it and it's rare the time I am able to actually rescue her. One time I decided, okay, we are in a narrow tunnel, I'll body block, she is behind me, they can't get to her. So I sit there body blocking and trying to make it work. I suddenly see her manage to dash past me and attack the second incoming ambush. Once she had agro there's nothing to do.

 

Fortunately it has no discernible impact on the TF, but good lord, if you're a doctor and not a fighter, and if you're squishy like Scirroco against Tsoo, then how about behaving as a non fighter and huddling behind a crate?

[TalonGrayson]

I very rarely take teleport, so I can't remember whether Recall Friend works on NPCs of this nature, but if so, maybe a temp "Recall Hostage" power in these missions would ease things a little without breaking the missions too much?