Jump to content

Wondering about Sentinels


Project
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi everyone, I'm just struggling to figure out the role of the sentinel? Seems like it does less damage than both a corruptor and a blaster, while not being able to support like the corruptor, whats the point of it?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Project said:

whats the point of it?

 

26 minutes ago, Omega Force said:

The point is to do ranged damage while being tough enough to survive, "a ranged Scrapper". 

 

This is a pretty good take on it.

You don't have melee attacks. Your range is shorter.

You survive to do damage because you are armored. 

 

It's outside of the dynamics of what most MMORPG players have experienced.

To me, that's a good thing.

 

And it does fill in the important niche of the comic book genre that was not covered.

 

1 hour ago, Vulpoid said:

PerkyPerfumedEyelashpitviper-max-1mb.gif

 

The armored hero with ranged attack powers.

 

  • Thumbs Up 1

If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they are most probably on ignore.

Some of them even know that I have them on ignore.

But that won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it.

It's who they are. There is a group of them that have banded together to do it. They think that it is acceptable.

Ignore is a tool to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another way to look at it is that Sentinels are the actual piece of military equipment called "Tank."
A heavily armored mobile ranged weapon.

What we call a Tank in City of Heroes is actually McCurdy's Armor https://ddmat.com/mccurdys-armor/mccurdys-armor-product.aspx
or.. with Taunt running... Ghost Army inflatable decoys  https://www.nationalww2museum.org/visit/museum-campus-guide/hall-democracy/senator-john-alario-jr-special-exhibition-hall/ghost-army

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point of a Sentinel is to fulfill the wet dream of a Tankmage in a balanced way that any sane dev team would allow. And the only way to possibly balance a Tankmage is to water everything down.

 

Whether they do less damage than Corruptors is up for debate. Why they would ever do as much damage as Blasters ofc is a question with an obvious answer. 
 

Find it pretty amusing the OP mentioned the lack of support but not the presence of personal armor. Some people do such a hilarious job of blatantly ignoring all the obvious mechanisms of balance. You read the OP and you’d think they didn’t even come with secondaries.

Edited by arcane
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, arcane said:

The point of a Sentinel is to fulfill the wet dream of a Tankmage in a balanced way that any sane dev team would allow. And the only way to possibly balance a Tankmage is to water everything down.

 

Is there something special about a tankmage in a game like CoH where just about any AT can become defense softcapped, while still maintaining damage output way over what a Sentinel is capable of?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The OP is just noticing that Sentinels tend to underperform compared to other pure combat AT's.  They need a little bump in damage to bring then on par with the other classes and/or to have the AT special ability reworked to be more useful.

 

As others have said, the Sentinel is meant to be a durable, medium-ranged attacker.  With the possible exceptions of beam rifle and fire, it doesn't quite have the damage output to perform well at this (compared to the other combat-focused AT's, at least). 

 

JMO.  There are certainly those who disagree. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, underfyre said:

Is there something special about a tankmage in a game like CoH where just about any AT can become defense softcapped, while still maintaining damage output way over what a Sentinel is capable of?

Some people want to be able to deal damage at range, with a good degree of survivability, without having to play the market and IO meta-game.  It's also a little more "focused" insofar as you basically turn on whatever armor powers you need, then just blast away, (sure, you may have a couple click powers from your armor set to juggle, but those tend to be few).  It may not be the highest-performing AT, nor may it be the pinnacle of damage or survivability, but you have a good bit of both...

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, biostem said:

Some people want to be able to deal damage at range, with a good degree of survivability, without having to play the market and IO meta-game.  It's also a little more "focused" insofar as you basically turn on whatever armor powers you need, then just blast away, (sure, you may have a couple click powers from your armor set to juggle, but those tend to be few).  It may not be the highest-performing AT, nor may it be the pinnacle of damage or survivability, but you have a good bit of both...

 

Sounds like EverQuest back in the day with their xp penalties for the hybrid classes. "You're okay at several things, so here's an unreasonable penalty to go with it since your life is so easy from being okay at more than a single thing."

  • Sad 1
  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Their niche is "Not quite a tank with Defender damage." They can take a hit while struggling their way out of a paper bag. You CAN slot them to be somewhat decent, but honestly some other AT will do whatever thing the Sentinel is doing, better. I still like them, and would like them to one day have a purpose.

  • Like 2

Smashing/Lethal Farmer and a Giant Monster Hunter on Excelsior

Monster Hunters: Blue Idoru (Main, Elec/Kin Corruptor), Kurodoru (Dark/Dark Brute), Canadian Content (Rad/Atom Blaster)

Try Arc IDs: 44869 "The Orb" - Smashing/Lethal Farm on the Troll Cave map with 99 mobs, all patrols.  45166 "Hail The Orb" - Smashing/Lethal Farm on the Dreck Freakshow map with 151 mobs, 61 Elite Bosses

Farmers: Freak Out (Rad/Fire Brute, Fire Farmer), Dara Kill (Dark/Spines Tanker, S/L Farmer), Freak Fire (Fire/Rad Tanker, Farm Everything), Blue Idoru (Main, Elec/Kin Corr, Farm Anything), Spidoru (Crabbermind, Farm Anything), various other fighters and support.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point of Sentinels is to be the gun totting super hero with an armor set!  To be the Invulnerable Energy Blaster (Iron Man).  To be the Human Torch (Fire/Fire).

 

 

  • Like 2
  • Thumbs Up 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I made a lot of Sentinels a year ago.  Kept trying to do Blaster damage and be armored.  Failed.  Finally made a Blaster with tons of Defense set bonuses that was ranged.  Quit while I was ahead.

 

A couple weeks ago I set out to find a project toon for SG competitions.  No Tanks/Brutes/Dwarf forms.  I rolled a Dark/Invul Sentinel.  Now, i built him for armor.  Did not care about damage.  He is a hoot.  Nearly unkillable and lots of vicious AoE (Blackstar tier 9 on a Sentinel is crazy good for debuffs)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Snarky said:

I made a lot of Sentinels a year ago.  Kept trying to do Blaster damage and be armored.  Failed.  Finally made a Blaster with tons of Defense set bonuses that was ranged.  Quit while I was ahead.

 

A couple weeks ago I set out to find a project toon for SG competitions.  No Tanks/Brutes/Dwarf forms.  I rolled a Dark/Invul Sentinel.  Now, i built him for armor.  Did not care about damage.  He is a hoot.  Nearly unkillable and lots of vicious AoE (Blackstar tier 9 on a Sentinel is crazy good for debuffs)

 

Just going to say it: Sentinels are more tanky than Scrappers. I think, through just raw numbers, they are close to equal but with Scrapper having better potential numbers but taking in the non-tangibles like range, being able to complete attack chains outside of AoE influences/hover blasting, the differences in their armor powers, ect.... Sentinels come out on top.

 

Of course, they potentially do quite a bit less damage but, if you've played Scrapper to death and want a change of pace, Sentinel is basically just a Scrapper that uses the blasts instead of the melee. One might say just play Blaster about they too thrive in melee, more than just some of the AoEs being PBAoEs. There's a bit of a freedom in knowing, the moment a target is within your range of influence, you can go at full capacity instead of always looking to close in further and further.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I leveled a sentinel recently. I found it was a bit lackluster on the way up, but once fully IOed and fit out with Incarnates, it's really durable and the damage is pretty respectable. It doesn't play like a blaster or a corruptor. 

  • Thumbs Up 2

Uunderdog - Radiation/Radiation Scrapper | Uundertaker - Radiation/Dark Corruptor | Uun - Martial Arts/Invulnerability Scrapper | Uunison - Gravity/Storm Controller | Uuncola - Ice/Temporal Blaster |  Uundergrowth - Plant/Martial Dominator

Uunstable - Super Reflexes/Staff Fighting Tanker | Uunreal - Fire/Time Corruptor | Uunrest - Dark/Tactical Arrow Blaster | Uunseen - Illusion/Poison Controller | Uuncool - Cold/Beam Rifle Defender | Uunderground - Earth/Earth Dominator

Uunknown - Mind/Psionic Dominator | Uunplugged - Stone/Electric Brute | Uunfair - Archery/Trick Arrow Corruptor | Uunsung - Dual Pistols/Ninja Blaster | Uunflammable - Fire/Nature Controller | Uunflappable - War Mace/Willpower Brute

Uundead - Dark/Dark Tank | Uunfit - Water/Martial Blaster | Uunwrapped - Dark/Dark Dominator | Uunchill - Ice/Kinetics Corruptor | Uunpleasant - Energy/Energy Stalker | Uunbrella - Radiation/Radiation Sentinel | Uunsafari - Beasts/Traps MM | Uungnome - Nature/Seismic Defender

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/12/2022 at 5:19 PM, underfyre said:

 

Sounds like EverQuest back in the day with their xp penalties for the hybrid classes. "You're okay at several things, so here's an unreasonable penalty to go with it since your life is so easy from being okay at more than a single thing."

Troll shadowknight checking in. Dont worry that 45% troll+hybrid exp penalty was totally worth the like 7hp per 6 sec health regen (out of combat). 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later
On 4/12/2022 at 5:50 AM, Vulpoid said:

Another way to look at it is that Sentinels are the actual piece of military equipment called "Tank."
A heavily armored mobile ranged weapon.

What we call a Tank in City of Heroes is actually McCurdy's Armor https://ddmat.com/mccurdys-armor/mccurdys-armor-product.aspx
or.. with Taunt running... Ghost Army inflatable decoys  https://www.nationalww2museum.org/visit/museum-campus-guide/hall-democracy/senator-john-alario-jr-special-exhibition-hall/ghost-army

So 

So 

So good

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/15/2022 at 9:26 AM, Naraka said:

 

Just going to say it: Sentinels are more tanky than Scrappers. I think, through just raw numbers, they are close to equal but with Scrapper having better potential numbers but taking in the non-tangibles like range, being able to complete attack chains outside of AoE influences/hover blasting, the differences in their armor powers, ect.... Sentinels come out on top.

 

Of course, they potentially do quite a bit less damage but, if you've played Scrapper to death and want a change of pace, Sentinel is basically just a Scrapper that uses the blasts instead of the melee. One might say just play Blaster about they too thrive in melee, more than just some of the AoEs being PBAoEs. There's a bit of a freedom in knowing, the moment a target is within your range of influence, you can go at full capacity instead of always looking to close in further and further.

Im gonna have to disagree with the tanky bit. My blaster outsurvived a sent, on several occasions. Which means, my scrappers( with a survival secondary, as all their secondaries are meant to be), who outsurvive my blasters, leave them hideously in the dust. Esp my Kat/stone, which isn’t fair since I honestly think Stone on scrap is kinda busted, and has outsurvived several brutes( my blasters sometimes do this but so far it seems to have only been my Ice/Fire whose done this so), but I know for an objective fact no sent I’ve ever teamed with has ever even come close to her level of survival. 
 

Though I think Sents can be a nice change of pace and I still recommend new players try them. And vets too( assuming you love abusing procs).

Apparently I'm a forum grouch.

 

My profile pic is my reaction every time I read these feedback threads, or sometimes general discussion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

Im gonna have to disagree with the tanky bit. My blaster outsurvived a sent, on several occasions.  ...(snip)....  but I know for an objective fact no sent I’ve ever teamed with has ever even come close to her level of survival. 

There's no doubt that a fully built Blaster (or any character nowadays) is quite sturdy.  I have...doubts...that an equally built Sentinel is less durable.  

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Seed22 said:

Im gonna have to disagree with the tanky bit. My blaster outsurvived a sent, on several occasions. Which means, my scrappers( with a survival secondary, as all their secondaries are meant to be), who outsurvive my blasters, leave them hideously in the dust. Esp my Kat/stone, which isn’t fair since I honestly think Stone on scrap is kinda busted, and has outsurvived several brutes( my blasters sometimes do this but so far it seems to have only been my Ice/Fire whose done this so), but I know for an objective fact no sent I’ve ever teamed with has ever even come close to her level of survival. 
 

Though I think Sents can be a nice change of pace and I still recommend new players try them. And vets too( assuming you love abusing procs).

Extremely anecdotal.

 

There's no way a blaster is more sturdy than a Sentinel. Just because my blaster didn't die while the Tanker did means nothing.

 

I say both Scraps and Sents can be build to similar levels of sturdiness and even admit that just looking at raw numbers, the Scrapper can have higher numbers. But my point was, with the tactical usability of range (and not relying on melee), both the offensive capability to engage faster and target more nimbly, and the defensive utility to be able to stand outside of debuffs, outside the range of enemy melee attacks through control, debuffs or hovering coupled with their unique armor changes will eventually have the Scrapper further behind in survival.

 

But then I wouldn't put it past players to downplay or just ignore range in the comparison as is typical for the dumbed down meta to focus on all out offense at close range and abusing soft capped defense.

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Seed22 said:

My blaster outsurvived a sent, on several occasions.

Correlation isn't Causation.  You're conflating player and build and AT.  My armored blaster is more durable than 80% of the tanks I meet, ..., be careful what conclusions you draw from that.

 

I rate Blasters at most 4 on my durability scale, Sentinels and Scrappers both rate up to 6.

Spoiler

Linea Durability Ratings

               Based on Solo +4x8 AE 801.# capability.   Where # is 0 to F, Hexadecimal, where F is 15. 

EX: 801.2 is the standard armor test.  If you can complete 801.2 then you have enough dps and durability for 95% of the game.

 

Anything rated 2 or above can tank the majority of official content.

Most tanks driven by most players do not even rate 2.

 

Defense Tanks rate 6 to 13.

Resist Tanks rate 5 to 7.

Heal-Amor Tanks rate 5 to 6.  Although I have had other players report BIO on Tanks up to 7.

 

Defense Brutes rate 5 to 10

Resist Brutes rate 5 to 7, but tanks rate higher more easily.

Heal-Armor Brutes rate 2 to 5

 

Defense Scrappers, Stalkers, and Sentinels rate 2 to 6.

Resist Scrappers, Stalkers and Sentinels are unrated, but should rate 2 to 4

Heal-Armor Scrappers rate 2 to 3

 

Veats, Heats, Defenders rate 2 to 5  ... I ran an empath through 2, once and only once.  If you want to discount that, then rate them 1 to 5.

Some truly exceptional Veats or Heats may rate 6.

 

Masterminds, Corruptors, Controllers and Doms are not far behind Defenders, and rate 0 to 5, but are harder to get to rate higher.

Some truly exceptional Controllers and Doms rate 6.  I am NOT that player, mine rate 2 to 5.

 

Blasters rate 0 to 4

 

Regen is Unrated, in this context Heal-Armor means Willpower and Bio Armor. 

If you want to account for build quality, set all low end numbers to zero.

 

Defenses Armors rate up to 13

Resist Armors rate up to 6

Heal-Tank Armors rate up to 5

IO Armor rates up to 2

 

  • Thumbs Up 1

AE 801 (link) is a variety of missions for fun and challenge, and is designed for a team of 5+ Incarnates.  Just search '801' in AE. 

801 Difficulty Varies: 801.0 Easy, ..., 801.2 Standard, ..., 801.5 Hard, ..., 801.8 Extreme, ..., 801.A Epic, ... 801.F Death.

Angel Hornet (link)   -   Solo 2-Star ASF (link)   -   Solo 2-Star ITF (link)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Once again, seems folks underestimate the mitigation provided by being at range. Sent armor + mez protection + range > Brute/Scrapper/Stalker armor + mez protection. And it's all because enemy range damage is vastly inferior to enemy melee damage.

 

Take that Sent into melee range and stay there, it's dying before the Stalker does.

I will never understand the "only buffs, no nerfs" crowd. Only being satisfied with an "I Win" button is no way to balance anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Once again, seems folks underestimate the mitigation provided by being at range. Sent armor + mez protection + range > Brute/Scrapper/Stalker armor + mez protection. And it's all because enemy range damage is vastly inferior to enemy melee damage.

 

Take that Sent into melee range and stay there, it's dying before the Stalker does.

 

In my experience, my Sents don't primarily die because their mitigation up close is inferior to other combat AT's.  They die, because the Sentinels damage output is too low to thin the herd fast enough to prevent the incoming damage from chewing through their armor.

 

That's anecdotal, of course, but that's been my experience with playing Sentinels, so far.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...