Change Confront and Assassin's Strike into a distance-closing attack

[Troo]

3 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Um, I just hit  W

 

And I'm at the next target in, say, .5 seconds....

 

Melee is fun to play and not frustrating for me.

 

'W' for the win.

What sin is this?! 'F'! 'F' is right there. Hit 'F'..

wait..

No, 'F' seems to slow.

 

(to instead of too is intended)

[arcane]

Since the addition of Thrust and Launch procs things are really just easier than ever. And I usually don’t bother with Sprint either. Swift/Hurdle/CJ/Thrust/Launch is just fine for the two seconds or whatever that Super Speed is suppressed.

 

Not to mention the high probability one of your buddies (or three) is on kin.

[Galaxy Brain]

Reading the thread, there appear to be a few key points trying to be addressed:

• Confront is an objectively bad power.
  • IIRC, there was a thread spawned from the 2020 data pull that went over the % that individual powers were taken and all forms of Confront had low single digit rates of use across all levels. 
  • Given it's ST nature, many have stated a use is to pull a pesky enemy off a team mate. For Confront specifically, given it's on Scrappers, they often have tools that let them just eliminate a target or neutralize them while also likely naturally taking aggro if they focus on the problem enemy thanks to raw damage + a chunk of secondaries having some sort of aggro aura.
  • If a Scrapper really wants to taunt, Provoke from the Presence pool is quite comparable:
    • Confront: 1.67 cast time / 3s rech / 70ft range / ST / 23.1s taunt / AUTO HIT! / -75% range on target
    • Provoke: 1.67 cast / 10s rech / 60ft range / 15ft AOE! / 12.32s taunt / NOT AUTO HIT
    • The major differences are the Recharge, AoE, and Auto Hit stats. Used as a taunt tool, both have 100% uptime at base when looking at the Rech vs Taunt stats, but the AoE factor pushes Provoke ahead IMHO given you'd need to cast Confront multiple times for the same effect of getting multiple enemies targeting you vs your friend. As mentioned, the ST Confront has way too many things that compete for the slot that can do the same job per set, while not much is available to Scrappers that can fill the same role as an AoE taunt. Even without the -Range and not being Auto Hit, Provoke I would say does a better job than a power shared in every Scrapper primary, which is an issue.

 

• Slow Assassin's Strike is fun, but in practice is not really as good as it should be overall.
  • Slow AS has the fun side effect of the "Demoralize" debuff which can hit 16 targets in a 30ft radius for -7.5% ToHit, and a 25% chance (4 targets on average) to apply a Mag 5 terrorize for 8 seconds each.
  • This is nice, but this also comes after a 2.67-3.67s animation that can be interrupted which is super slow. The upside is that they all deal 389.3 base damage out of hide.
  • The fast version of AS is always 2s faster (0.67-1.67s) and deals 153.5 base damage.
  • On average, this means that fast AS animates in roughly 36% of the time while doing 39% of the raw damage of slow AS. Without diving into the details yet, the mismatch here also means fast AS will usually outcompete slow AS when it comes to damage/animation time.
    • Only a handful of slow AS's outcompete the DPA of their fast ones at base value, with Broadsword/Ninja Blade/Fire Melee/Ice Melee having 15% better DPA
    • All others have about 85% the DPA of their fast counterpart, with Stone/StJ having 94%, and KM having an astonishing 64%!
    • Just about 4/5 Stalker sets have their fast AS as better DPA from the start!
  • Assassin's focus throws a massive wrench into the balance between the two in terms of damage, with 1 stack alone tilting the scales to 52% of slow damage, and 2 stacks shifting to 65% while maintaining the fast animation speed.
  • In order to get AF, you need to hit with other attacks which on the whole animate a whole lot faster than the 2s gap between Fast/Slow AS, and deal damage on their own:
    • Averaged out, T1 stalker attacks deal ~52 damage and have a 0.9 cast time.
      • Without AF, fast AS + a T1 would deal 205.3 dam/2.1s on avg = 98.3 dpa.
      • Slow AS would be 389.3/3.1 = 123.6, only about a 25 DPA difference for nearly 1.5x the time.
    • Likewise, T2 attacks average out to ~73 damage / 1.2s cast time
      • Without AF, fast AS = 228.8/2.4 = 95.7.
      • Again nearly 50% more cast time for only a gain of ~28 DPA if you chose slow AS
    • Combined, 7/18 sets have a T1+T2 combo that is 2s or faster to complete. Without AF, these deal an average of 70% of the slow AS damage within ~96% of the cast time. 
      • Of note, Martial Arts makes out the best with 70% of the damage in 89% of the time. Claws is the "worst" of the good ones with 66% dam/100% time, and overall Dual Blades is the worst overall with 68% dam/114% time in this comparison.
    • Adding in 1 stack of AF after each attack (33% crit buff):
      • T1+fAS = 122.5 dpa (only 1.1 off of sAS)
      • T2+fAS = 116.8 dpa (only 6.8 off sAS)
      • T1+T2+fAS (assuming a 66% crit chance) = 114.6 dpa (only 9 off sAS and on the whole averaging 3.3s vs 3.1s)
      • If the attacks prior to fAS crit at any time due to hide, natural chance/boosted Team chances then it just straight outclasses sAS by a max of neary +30dpa!
  • That's a lot of math I wrote at like 1am... but the gist is that Assassin's Focus with how it works just outpaces slow AS when using even the weakest attacks in tandem, ignoring even getting 3 stacks!

 

• Pool powers are limited, but not equal.
  • Lastly, the suggestions of using pool powers to emulate the request works in a vacuum but there is something to be said about what you give up.
  • This is more of a bigger issue with how things like Provoke compete for a slot with Leadership, Speed, and Fighting pools which have proven to be overwhelmingly useful in comparison.
  • So yes while you can get what you "want" from pool choices, it can end up being more of a pain than it's worth!

 

 

Looking at these three core issues combined, the original request definitely has merit if it were just a +Leap attached to the powers. That would alleviate the Pool power issue some, and give new utility to powers that are straight up outclassed in what they are meant to accomplish.

 

However, I don't think a gap-closer there would work out the best. Maybe converting confront into a ranged attack per set and then backfilling teleport attacks....? I'm not sure to be honest but most anything may be welcome to help with the above!

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Galaxy Brain

[Luminara]

On 4/29/2022 at 10:14 AM, srmalloy said:

From my experience, where I see a noticeable speed change after leaving combat, Sprint does suppress in combat, just not to the same extent as SJ, SS, or Fly.

 

Sprint isn't suppressed in combat.  Sprint isn't suppressed out of combat.  Sprint isn't suppressed when you're passing an exploration badge, or jumping through the donut in Faultline, or near a War Wall, or idling in Peregrine Island, or at any other time or for any other reason.  There are no suppression flags on the power, it can't suppress without that.

 

Additionally, I monitor Run Speed on almost all of my characters, and keep Sprint active during combat on any character with a net Recovery greater than 3.0 Endurance/second, and Sprint's Run Speed has never suppressed on any of those characters.

 

On 4/29/2022 at 10:14 AM, srmalloy said:

What is more disturbing is inappropriate suppression -- if you have Athletic Run active, it significantly suppresses flight speed, despite having no flight component itself; both Fly and Mystic Flight suppress to well below unslotted Hover speeds with Athletic Run active, and that component of the suppression goes away if you turn it off.

 

I logged into my Ill/TA with Fly and tested.  This character is level 50+ and is at 87.99 mph Fly Speed, capped at 87.95 mph.  If there's even the tiniest suppression occurring, this would be the character to see it, since she's only 0.04 mph above the cap.

 

Toggling Athletic Run on and off next to the AP P2W vendor, there's no Fly Speed suppression occurring.

 

Flying around AP, toggling Athletic Run on and off, no Fly Speed suppression.

 

Attacking Hellions, the only suppression is the normal reduction to Hover speed (38.99 mph on this character) when using an attack.  Turning off Athletic Run while Fly Speed is suppressed isn't causing my Fly Speed to increase or the degree of suppression to reduce, the character is still at Hover speed.

 

My tests don't support your statements.

[Naraka]

9 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

 

 

• Pool powers are limited, but not equal.
  • Lastly, the suggestions of using pool powers to emulate the request works in a vacuum but there is something to be said about what you give up.
  • This is more of a bigger issue with how things like Provoke compete for a slot with Leadership, Speed, and Fighting pools which have proven to be overwhelmingly useful in comparison.
  • So yes while you can get what you "want" from pool choices, it can end up being more of a pain than it's worth!

 

 

There were a few points regarding AS I think you didn't cover but for the most part, it keeps the important points in the forefront... But this part I quoted I feel is important to correct.

 

Using pools to get the desired effects doesn't just work in a vacuum. It works period. I think you just choose unoptimal wording there.

 

Speed, Leadership and Fighting are also "wants". Those powers aren't among a set of special pools that limit then in a unique way.  Having limited choices in this regard is working as intended and is already balanced (don't take confront but instead take combat teleport or something). Now I understand what you actually meant (or perhaps not), not having enough room for every pool for a meta build seems like a "not an actual problem" problem in the grand scheme of things. One has to remember just how many changes to pools have been made to make them more accessible and useful...

[Galaxy Brain]

1 hour ago, Naraka said:

 

There were a few points regarding AS I think you didn't cover but for the most part, it keeps the important points in the forefront... But this part I quoted I feel is important to correct.

 

Using pools to get the desired effects doesn't just work in a vacuum. It works period. I think you just choose unoptimal wording there.

 

Speed, Leadership and Fighting are also "wants". Those powers aren't among a set of special pools that limit then in a unique way.  Having limited choices in this regard is working as intended and is already balanced (don't take confront but instead take combat teleport or something). Now I understand what you actually meant (or perhaps not), not having enough room for every pool for a meta build seems like a "not an actual problem" problem in the grand scheme of things. One has to remember just how many changes to pools have been made to make them more accessible and useful...

 

In my defense this was a rabbit hole I dove into at 230 am 😄

 

You're spot on in that pools are currently working as intended in that they are supposed to have limitations in usage and selection. That said, what I was trying to say is more along the lines of:

 

Certain pool powers are so beneficial across the board that in the strict sense of "building for effectiveness" they out compete other choices. Combined with how dipping into those pools limits further choices, it sort of pushes out more creative choices.

 

There's also the weird scaling where something that should be cool (Spring Attack) ends up being very lackluster due to it being a pool power, even though you need 2 extra power picks in order to even unlock it.

 

Thinking as I type on mobile here, I think the "good" pool powers all share the trait of either being something incredibly unique (see sorcery) or something that adds to your character (tough/manuevers/etc) without trying to compete with other picks. Something like Spring Attack is "bad" because it is competing with other AoE attacks you may have at your disposal, where it has not only "meh" stats comparatively but also requires a lot more investment to even get. Making more pool powers "good" in that they don't have clearly better options that you'd rather take / they all add to the whole would help a lot.

 

[Koopak]

I'll just note, I'm not sold on a universal closing skill on Scrappers but it would fit as a dedicated melee AT. The issue I see is its a lot of powers that, to feel on brand would likely need new animation work which is a bottleneck.

Regardless of the above, and the fact that both Scrappers and Stalkers are, generally speaking, in good places at the moment, ill admit the AS balance between slow and fast, and Confront's near uselessness are pretty bad. At least in the case of Confront replacing it with a closer would be an improvement, but so would most other things.

[arcane]

2 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

 

In my defense this was a rabbit hole I dove into at 230 am 😄

 

You're spot on in that pools are currently working as intended in that they are supposed to have limitations in usage and selection. That said, what I was trying to say is more along the lines of:

 

Certain pool powers are so beneficial across the board that in the strict sense of "building for effectiveness" they out compete other choices. Combined with how dipping into those pools limits further choices, it sort of pushes out more creative choices.

 

There's also the weird scaling where something that should be cool (Spring Attack) ends up being very lackluster due to it being a pool power, even though you need 2 extra power picks in order to even unlock it.

 

Thinking as I type on mobile here, I think the "good" pool powers all share the trait of either being something incredibly unique (see sorcery) or something that adds to your character (tough/manuevers/etc) without trying to compete with other picks. Something like Spring Attack is "bad" because it is competing with other AoE attacks you may have at your disposal, where it has not only "meh" stats comparatively but also requires a lot more investment to even get. Making more pool powers "good" in that they don't have clearly better options that you'd rather take / they all add to the whole would help a lot.

 

All a user-created (non-)problem. If the OP wants combat teleport or jaunt, he can make a perfectly effective build with it. 
 

If it’s not obvious yet, I have zero sympathy for the “but speed/leaping/fighting/leadership are mandatory” argument because reality plainly shows they are not. Yes, these are my most often picked pools too. No, that does not stop me if I want to try a different pool because that would mean either (1) I don’t reeeally want to try the different pool or (2) my thinking is highly limited and ridiculous.

Edited May 4, 2022 by arcane

[Rudra]

Some melee sets already have gap closers. This would give them 2 for no gain.

 

Having skippable powers in a set gives you more room to customize your character rather than having every character more or less be the same.

 

Some players actually take and use Confront. For its intended purpose or for creative use like the poster that mentioned using it to draw Rikti to the group during a MSR. And situation dependent, the "have friend simply pull back out of range rather than draw enemy off friend" is not always an option nor does it stop the enemy you want to draw off said friend from still hitting and possibly dropping friend. Whereas Confront tells enemy to ignore friend until duration wears off and turn their attacks on you.

 

Long form AS only gets used at start of fight. At least by me. So the fact it may do less damage per activation, rather than damage per attack which I track by, is fine, because it still does a lot of damage as my opener and after my opener my attacks shift into a more rapid fire approach where according to the naysayers for AS, the DPA goes up.

 

The complaint earlier in the thread that people are being hypocritical in not letting the OP play as he wants ignores the fact that the OP is requesting to forcibly prevent others from playing how they want by changing how Confront works.

 

The complaint that needing to take a pool power to achieve what the OP wants is unfair, or unnecessary, or whatever, ignores the whole point of how pool power sets work. It also conveniently claims there is a need to add something to the game that already exists for the sake of "The Perfect Build". City of is a game of careful balance, give and take, in a character's design. Everyone has to give up something to get something else they want. This is no exception.

 

The fact it is already possible to make insanely over-powered characters, make characters more or less how you want want with some tradeoff as required for all characters in this game, and the fact the game already allows what the OP wants are pretty good reasons to say no.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to clean up a bit.

[Crasical]

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/fotm-powers/
Galaxy Brain beat me out by a country mile, but yeah, Confront has a 10-20% presence rate on level 50s. Confront is pretty universally underwhelming.

 

 

I've been thinking about how to improve it and haven't come up with anything I'm totally proud of yet. I'd considered the idea of it taunting but also phase-shifting both the user and target, so it literally becomes a duel to the death nobody can interfere with, but there's enough bad blood with cage and phase shift effects to begin with, I don't think the power any more popular than it already is. Another thought was just giving it a -res/-def effect as you single one target out for elimination, but that just encourages your team to dogpile the enemy, which somewhat spoils the idea of it being a duel-with-the-boss power. The only other thing I can think of is giving it an effect like Superspeed has currently, where you ignore enemy hitboxes and can run right through them, ignoring the minions to get right to the boss enemy. Possibly with some special protections against slow, knockback, and immobilize, to represent the scrapper committing themselves to fighting this one particular enemy.

 

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

 

Long form AS only gets used at start of fight. At least by me. So the fact it may do less damage per activation, rather than damage per attack which I track by, is fine, because it still does a lot of damage as my opener and after my opener my attacks shift into a more rapid fire approach where according to the naysayers for AS, the DPA goes up.

 

 

I do have a nagging contention when people compare hidden AS and combat AS because the comparison is often ignoring any tactical considerations, like obviously AS while hidden only notifies an enemy if and when it lands so the fight starts at the moment of notification. Secondly, if AS misses, you remain hidden allowing for the use of another high damage ST attack. Is this calculated in their comparisons? Who knows. And it often feels like when these comparisons are calculated, they are only comparing hidden AS vs combat AS...as if you don't have the option to use either depending on the situation and use intuition to make that decision (for example: I wouldn't bother trying to use hidden AS mid combat, just at the start).

 

Another minor point about Demoralize, it isn't resistable so it is a flat -7.5% even on high level bosses/EBs...but the funny thing is, AS was made usable in combat primarily because players complained it was useless in combat or without Placate...now they shifted the other way and push this mentality to not use it from hidden...that just outlines that they made combat AS too strong and unless you want that changed, I'd just keep whatever speed-run advice under your breath lol

 

28 minutes ago, Crasical said:

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/fotm-powers/
Galaxy Brain beat me out by a country mile, but yeah, Confront has a 10-20% presence rate on level 50s. Confront is pretty universally underwhelming.

 

 

I've been thinking about how to improve it and haven't come up with anything I'm totally proud of yet. I'd considered the idea of it taunting but also phase-shifting both the user and target, so it literally becomes a duel to the death nobody can interfere with, but there's enough bad blood with cage and phase shift effects to begin with, I don't think the power any more popular than it already is. Another thought was just giving it a -res/-def effect as you single one target out for elimination, but that just encourages your team to dogpile the enemy, which somewhat spoils the idea of it being a duel-with-the-boss power. The only other thing I can think of is giving it an effect like Superspeed has currently, where you ignore enemy hitboxes and can run right through them, ignoring the minions to get right to the boss enemy. Possibly with some special protections against slow, knockback, and immobilize, to represent the scrapper committing themselves to fighting this one particular enemy.

 

 

All in all, the purpose of these powers are utility and defensive in nature. You might make an argument that, since Stalker's Placate has defensive and offensive utility, that maybe Confront can be given a similar upgrade. My initial thought was giving the power a longer recharge and adding in a kind of "negative crit" to the target, granting the enemy a power that has a chance of doing half damage and maybe giving you or any other Scrapper a higher crit chance on that target. I do like your suggestion of giving you an "ignore other hitboxes" effect tho. 

[Crasical]

I think that a -damage -tohit would probably be easier to implement than anti-crit, but that and +critchance for the Scrapper actually is good and thematic.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Crasical

[Sakura Tenshi]

I actually suggested something similar awhile back, though it was specifically for scrapper taunts to function as either a ranged attack, a “teleport to me/pull” attack, or similarly a charge/gap closer like you’re proposing. My idea was to expressly promote uniqueness both in melee sets for how to deal with a ranged foes and create some uniqueness from the tanker a brute versions of the same melee sets. It was met with much the same critique and resistance, my favorite response for why it should not happen was “Some powers in sets should be skippable, it makes builds more flexible.”

[Teirusu]

While I don't necessarily agree with turning Confront into a gap-closer myself, I do agree that it is a bad power in general.  Or, at least, one with few redeeming qualities, compared to other taunt powers out there.

 

One of my characters is a War Mace/Shield scrapper.  I've built her to be an off-tank.  In many cases, this is all that's generally needed on teams these days.  Jump in first, (Combat Teleport or Shield Charge, or just run in) Against all Odds to generally keep aggro and spread your attacks around a bit.  Confront to keep the big-bad on you.  It works fairly decently.

 

My problem with it is this; Not only is Confront a single-target power.. but the taunt duration on the power is less then the duration on the brute/tank versions of Taunt that's an AOE.  It is by far a much worse taunt power then the other two and gets nothing else for it.  If you want an AOE version, then you have to get Provoke which has even less taunt duration then Confront and doesn't have the -75% range and you have to lose a power pool pick to get it. 

In my opinion, it should have the same duration/strength as the brute/tank version because, dang it, if I want to have a taunt-o-war with a brute/tank with an AV while spending one of my precious powers slots on taking Confront.. then I better be able to win that taunt-o-war!  Dang-it!  😁 


On the other hand, it be swell if it gave you some other benefit beyond what the brute/tanker version gives.  Like, it be neat if it gave you (And only you) a higher critical chance against just that NPC/player you confronted.. while also giving that enemy a chance to do critical damage to you.  So, while this could give you extra damage against them, it could also backfire and have the enemy do extra damage to you.  More risk = more reward.

[Sakura Tenshi]

@Teirusu
Well, in my own idea (which I might as well plug) I had intended for the taunt to remain part of the component, mostly to just shore up some of its poor utility with additional utility, and most importantly, damage and unique trait.

[Rudra]

9 minutes ago, Teirusu said:

While I don't necessarily agree with turning Confront into a gap-closer myself, I do agree that it is a bad power in general.  Or, at least, one with few redeeming qualities, compared to other taunt powers out there.

 

One of my characters is a War Mace/Shield scrapper.  I've built her to be an off-tank.  In many cases, this is all that's generally needed on teams these days.  Jump in first, (Combat Teleport or Shield Charge, or just run in) Against all Odds to generally keep aggro and spread your attacks around a bit.  Confront to keep the big-bad on you.  It works fairly decently.

 

My problem with it is this; Not only is Confront a single-target power.. but the taunt duration on the power is less then the duration on the brute/tank versions of Taunt that's an AOE.  It is by far a much worse taunt power then the other two and gets nothing else for it.  If you want an AOE version, then you have to get Provoke which has even less taunt duration then Confront and doesn't have the -75% range and you have to lose a power pool pick to get it. 

In my opinion, it should have the same duration/strength as the brute/tank version because, dang it, if I want to have a taunt-o-war with a brute/tank with an AV while spending one of my precious powers slots on taking Confront.. then I better be able to win that taunt-o-war!  Dang-it!  😁 


On the other hand, it be swell if it gave you some other benefit beyond what the brute/tanker version gives.  Like, it be neat if it gave you (And only you) a higher critical chance against just that NPC/player you confronted.. while also giving that enemy a chance to do critical damage to you.  So, while this could give you extra damage against them, it could also backfire and have the enemy do extra damage to you.  More risk = more reward.

I'm actually a fan of this idea. I would personally have just requested that the ST Confront scrappers get have a longer duration and higher threat level than the AoE Taunt of the brutes and tankers, but a you-crit-me-I-crit-you mechanic, if it could be implemented, would also work for me.

[biostem]

Can the game handle any sort of "forced movement" power, apart from teleportation, or would this proposed power basically be something like Burst of Speed from Martial Combat, only with an effect appropriate for each powerset?

[Sakura Tenshi]

28 minutes ago, biostem said:

Can the game handle any sort of "forced movement" power, apart from teleportation, or would this proposed power basically be something like Burst of Speed from Martial Combat, only with an effect appropriate for each powerset?

 

I always figured it would just be using teleport as a cheat tool for forcing movement. This would also mean teleports would need to be reworked in terms of their effectiveness, but I think that's still a small order for the potential to have very literal 'pulls'. Though it might also require some animation and effect cheating as well to complete the illusion.

[biostem]

Just now, Sakura Tenshi said:

I always figured it would just be using teleport as a cheat tool for forcing movement. This would also mean teleports would need to be reworked in terms of their effectiveness, but I think that's still a small order for the potential to have very literal 'pulls'. Though it might also require some animation and effect cheating as well to complete the illusion.

So like broadsword might get a "combat teleport", except you're wielding the sword, it deals some lethal damage, and perhaps imparts some appropriate debuff or effect, like a defense debuff?  Champions Online has some similar powers - they can be quite useful...

[Rudra]

That would be Teleport Other. Which in my experience, also aggroes the group you teleported the target from. Still against this.

 

Edit: So OP's request: Make Combat Teleport part of Confront. This proposed alternate: Make Teleport Other part of Confront. In both cases, we already have the power that lets us do that. And they are even in the same pool.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Rudra

[Uun]

12 hours ago, Rudra said:

That would be Teleport Other. Which in my experience, also aggroes the group you teleported the target from. Still against this.

 

Edit: So OP's request: Make Combat Teleport part of Confront. This proposed alternate: Make Teleport Other part of Confront. In both cases, we already have the power that lets us do that. And they are even in the same pool.

Teleport Other has a magnitude limitation. It only works on minions and some lieutenants (dependent on level).

[Rudra]

So you want the ability to teleport bosses, elite bosses, archvillains, monsters, and giant monsters to you?

[Uun]

9 minutes ago, Rudra said:

So you want the ability to teleport bosses, elite bosses, archvillains, monsters, and giant monsters to you?

No, just stating the limitation if you make TP Other part of Confront. 

[arcane]

24 minutes ago, Rudra said:

So you want the ability to teleport bosses, elite bosses, archvillains, monsters, and giant monsters to you?

The limitation also exists to keep immovable objects from being teleport-able iirc.

[Galaxy Brain]

22 hours ago, arcane said:

All a user-created (non-)problem. If the OP wants combat teleport or jaunt, he can make a perfectly effective build with it. 
 

If it’s not obvious yet, I have zero sympathy for the “but speed/leaping/fighting/leadership are mandatory” argument because reality plainly shows they are not. Yes, these are my most often picked pools too. No, that does not stop me if I want to try a different pool because that would mean either (1) I don’t reeeally want to try the different pool or (2) my thinking is highly limited and ridiculous.

 

Speed/leap/fight/leadership are picked for good reason however. They are *not mandatory* by any means, but they have power picks that are on average way better than other pools with the context of limited pool choices + how other pools have some oddball picks compared to what are found in pri/sec pools.