The Reward is Playing the Game

[Glacier Peak]

6 hours ago, roleki said:

I imagine they will settle in the 1M-3M range once everyone that goes nuts for such things finally settles down to realize they could have accumulated them organically.

 

As for the topic at hand, this is a game that lays literally millions of character options at your feet, and then expects you to invest (conservatively) 20 hours into each character in order to bring them to their full potential. 

 

To my mind, that model punishes experimentation and rewards cookie-cutter combos that lack any semblance of the imagination that went into making so many options available to the player in the first place.  

 

I find the real joy of this game lies in the  under-explored corners.  Nobody runs an X/Y, can I make that work?  What combo can damage (not necessarily defeat) the most enemies per click?   Can I make a Pylon completely and permanently unhittable?   

 

By removing the most significant barrier standing between me and the answers (that being 'time') I can find out for myself, then go ask another question, or, very important: revisit the question later on. 

 

I may not play the game the right way, but I would wager I've fired off a much wider array of powers than the average player, and in doing so answered more questions than I ever would have slogging through "the journey" on even a couple dozen characters.  

 

It's unfortunate that my approach to the game is being systematically weeded out, but I've already answered most of my questions, anyway.  It took 3 years and 300 some-odd alts, but, I got what I was looking for.

Totally understand this! That's one of my favorite new corners to try as well - what works but hasn't been tried. At this point in the game's life, pretty much everything has already been tried by someone - but I haven't begun to cover all the builds I want to throw at the game. 

[Glacier Peak]

4 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

This is Tina Belcher's thread now. We're all just reading it.

Love this reference! Finally got around to seeing the movie! Definitely recommend watching if you haven't seen it yet. 

[Glacier Peak]

1 hour ago, QuiJon said:

The thing is I am more apt to make a experimental build when i have enough resources that i feel i can afford to take the chance. So when you change things like converting empyrean merits to reward merits IMO all you are doing is taking away a resource that i used, which means i have to work harder to earn resources for a new character, making it more likely that i will build and spend those resources on something i have seen over perform vs. taking a chance on something whimsical. 

I dont like micromanging the AH, and buying and converting etc to make billions of influence. I like to farm. I feel at least like i am playing the game while i do it. Yet between the patrol xp/infl thing and now the conversion of empyreans to reward merits, i feel more and more like the game designers are basically telling me that how i choose to play the game is wrong. For some reason a marketeer can in a fraction of the time i might take me to farm 3 levels and earn 20 empyrean merits to convert to 2 purples make a billion influence and buy 50 purples. Having never entered a mission door, or joined a team or arrested an enemy. Why is how i want to do things constantly under attack rather then that?

 

I've definitely fell in to this myself - I've poured time and effort in to concepts and theory crafted or Mids Planned builds, only to farm the character up to 50, vet level 6, unlock the T4 Alpha, fully slot all the IOs, then realize it's not what I wanted or expected. I've made this mistake too many times, and only recently discovered that Mids has an export tool to the Beta server! Now I have a safe middle ground to try out the build before I invest the time and effort. Not a full proof solution, mind you, but definitely less painful than the time and inf investment. 

[Ukase]

4 hours ago, QuiJon said:

The thing is I am more apt to make a experimental build when i have enough resources that i feel i can afford to take the chance. So when you change things like converting empyrean merits to reward merits IMO all you are doing is taking away a resource that i used, which means i have to work harder to earn resources for a new character, making it more likely that i will build and spend those resources on something i have seen over perform vs. taking a chance on something whimsical. 

I dont like micromanging the AH, and buying and converting etc to make billions of influence. I like to farm. I feel at least like i am playing the game while i do it. Yet between the patrol xp/infl thing and now the conversion of empyreans to reward merits, i feel more and more like the game designers are basically telling me that how i choose to play the game is wrong. For some reason a marketeer can in a fraction of the time i might take me to farm 3 levels and earn 20 empyrean merits to convert to 2 purples make a billion influence and buy 50 purples. Having never entered a mission door, or joined a team or arrested an enemy. Why is how i want to do things constantly under attack rather then that?

 

Unfortunately (for me) - there is one thing the farmer can do better than the marketer - and that's acquire emp merits that your alts can use. I can market until I get to a trillion, but I cannot buy any emp merits. I can't earn them by marketing, no matter how well I do it. 

But the lovely farmer - that guy has it made, because he can farm, he can sell the loot that drops, or craft it, convert it and sell, and essentially be a marketeer as well as a farmer. 
You keep farming. You may not be able to use emp merits the way you wish, but you'll make plenty of inf anyway. 

[sundew]

14 hours ago, Ukase said:

it was pizza, pop tarts, all manner of foods starting with P. But if I could grab it with one hand and shove it into the gaping maw that was my mouth, that was the preferred food. 

Um, aaaaaaaallllllllllllllllll the foods starting with P? 

[Ukase]

3 hours ago, Ironblade said:

Firstly, I like Pop-Tarts and am literally eating pizza right now.  Don't judge me!  I don't eat Pop-Tarts more than once a week, though.

Pop-Tarts? Yeah? But do you toast the cinnamon and brown sugar ones, then add butter and more cinnamon-sugar to them? 

If not, you keep trying! 

In all honesty, I have not had a pop-tart since the game closed down! 
I no longer eat food out of a box.

[Ukase]

Just now, sundew said:

Um, aaaaaaaallllllllllllllllll the foods starting with P? 

Pizza,  peanuts, pretzels. I'd include pasta, but when you eat that with your hands...that keyboard turns into a real mess! 

 

[Spaghetti Betty]

My favorite Pop Tarts are those chocolate covered peanut butter ones.

 

Ok, that's a little bit of a lie. My ACTUAL favorite flavor is no longer sold in stores. Blueberry Muffin.

[Bionic_Flea]

Sorry to seem like a marketer, but I too love pop-tarts and was sad to have to give them up.  And then I found . . . diet pop-tarts!

 

[Ukase]

13 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Sorry to seem like a marketer, but I too love pop-tarts and was sad to have to give them up.  And then I found . . . diet pop-tarts!

Blasphemer! If there isn't 12 pounds of sugar in it, you cannot consider it a pop tart! 

If this were the place for it, I would bore 99.9% of you with thousands of confusing data points on non-nutritive sweeteners. 

T

[The_Warpact]

The Reward is ENJOYING the Game. (Fixt that for ya)

 

You can play a game and absolutely despise it, you can play a game to connect with friends, you can play a game just to beat it.

But, if you don't enjoy it, really what's the point?

 

My play consists of checks and balances, I play with my friends and we do different things. So far it's enjoyable, sure there are things that annoy me, and there are things I hate. So far the enjoyable things outweigh the least enjoyable things.

 

But, I have started looking at other servers, certain things are starting to go into a direction that I don't like. It affects my play and enjoyment and it affects my friends enjoyment. 

 

I have already covered several things in other threads and not to detract from the OPs thread or derail it.(not that much, but, hey people are talking about pop tarts so the door is open)

I find I'm not a fan Boi or cheerleader for the devs, yeah, yeah I get it they volunteer their time Yada Yada Yada, and that's their decision, they made that choice that's on them and I'm not going to be guilted into blindly following them just because. 

I volunteer my time for Alzheimer charity should I get special treatment because of it...hell no. 

 

You have to enjoy it, I don't like coming onto the forums. Most threads devolve into pissing matches and get locked. Sure there are threads that are enjoyable but, for the most part it blows. But, I come back to joke around or shit in the middle of a thread if I think it needs it. But, it's getting less enjoyable which pushes me to do other things.

 

Remember bigger population doesn't equate to a better or more enjoyable game. 

[Herotu]

38 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Sorry to seem like a marketer, but I too love pop-tarts and was sad to have to give them up.  And then I found . . . diet pop-tarts!

 

Jam + Toastie maker = Pop-Tart. 
 

[Grouchybeast]

37 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Blasphemer! If there isn't 12 pounds of sugar in it, you cannot consider it a pop tart! 

 

All the sugar in the world can't hide the fact that Pop Tarts taste like cardboard and sadness.  Bake a proper jam pasty instead!

[High_Beam]

8 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

Pop Tarts taste like cardboard and sadness.

Spot on!  I have literally used that description to describe those and several other terrible but for some reason beloved snack items.

[Yomo Kimyata]

Well, why do you play, for example, Scrabble(tm)?

 

I think some reasons could be:

1.  You enjoy playing the game.

2.  You like getting better at it as you play.

3.  You want to win.

4.  You want your opponent to lose.

5.  You want your ranking to increase.

6.  You make a good living off the professional Scrabble(tm) circuit.

7.  You enjoy solving the problem of coming up with the best play off any given rack.

8.  It's an enjoyable pastime to share with other people.

9 to a much higher number than 9:  other

 

EDIT:  I'm mostly 1,2,7,8.  But I'm not going to begrudge anyone profiting off the professional circuit!

 

 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Yomo Kimyata

[Bionic_Flea]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Well, why do you play, for example, Scrabble(tm)?

10.  Two become a bedder spellerer!

[UltraAlt]

On 8/28/2022 at 3:51 PM, Glacier Peak said:

My philosophy, which I'll gladly concede is my own opinion and not a fact or rule, is that the journey is the fun part, and the destination or goal is the motivation to continue playing the game. 

 

I can't say that I have a "philosophy" in regard to gaming.

 

The "journey" to me is exploring the game. That isn't just leveling. It isn't just taking different leveling paths. It isn't just exploring the "world" with my different archetypes and power selections. It isn't just exploring the "world" thought my character conception. It isn't just the different interactions that I experience with PUGs (Pick-up Groups - because they always have random players involved bringing their own style of gameplay and interaction). It isn't just figuring out the costume variations that will fit a character. It isn't just about making different bases to explore what I can build or to explore what other players have built. .... and .... on it goes ...

 

For me, the "destination/goal" is being in the world and interacting with it (including and, on many levels, the other player characters that I interact with). I read comics from a fairly early age and, from that time, have wanted to do what I can to be heroic in my life. It's hard to be superheroic and not get arrested, be brought in for government testing, or ... even killed. (Never take off the mask). THE CITY allows me to be a superhero in an environment where it is safe to explore being a superhero (... villain, monster, alien, mystic creature, robot, angel, demon, plant creature, and on-and-on, but not a Praetorian! - AKA the superhero/comic book genre in general) and that keeps calling me back as much as reading a new comic book or rereading old comic books (or their compilations known generally as graphic novels these days..) So I guess the "destination/goal" rolls back to being the "journey" because the combinations of experience are near endless/limitless within what some would see to be a constrictive environment.

 

See you in THE CITY.

[ivanhedgehog]

8 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Sorry to seem like a marketer, but I too love pop-tarts and was sad to have to give them up.  And then I found . . . diet pop-tarts!

 

You are a god sir!!!!!!!!!! I will find these and celebrate your name!!!!!!!

 

[Astralock]

9 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Sorry to seem like a marketer, but I too love pop-tarts and was sad to have to give them up.  And then I found . . . diet pop-tarts!

 

But can they be used as a flamethrower?

 

You know, for next April Fool’s Day, Longbow should launch flaming Pop-tarts at you.

[QuiJon]

18 hours ago, Ukase said:

Unfortunately (for me) - there is one thing the farmer can do better than the marketer - and that's acquire emp merits that your alts can use. I can market until I get to a trillion, but I cannot buy any emp merits. I can't earn them by marketing, no matter how well I do it. 

But the lovely farmer - that guy has it made, because he can farm, he can sell the loot that drops, or craft it, convert it and sell, and essentially be a marketeer as well as a farmer. 
You keep farming. You may not be able to use emp merits the way you wish, but you'll make plenty of inf anyway. 

Lets honest. You know as well as i do, that even with Emp merits, a marketeer earns money quicker then a farmer. At best i earn a bunch of crap which if i choose to i can play convertor roulette with, but that is kind of my point. I HATE doing that stuff. I find it mind numbing, tedious and no fun. I get others dont. They would rather spend 20-30 minutes playing the market and come back the next day and collect a few hundred million in influence. 

 

I think the bigger question here is what do you think you are missing out using Emp Merits that you cant get with influence from marketeering? Buying incarnate powers is the only other thing they were good for. And that you can not do any other way then either playing the game and earning drops or with Emp merits. And if someone is using emp merits to down convert into rewards merits they are not getting double duty out of them by also buying incarnate slotting any more then a marketer does. 

 

It feels to me that the only reason to continue to punish farmers for how we choose to do things is this myth that somehow farming drives market prices higher. And i get the economic theory that in the real world would suggest that. But this is a made up world where people dont follow the rules of real money. And the one things i know clearly from what little i would sell from before and after that last change where we lost patrol xp and influence bonuses is that the market didnt get cheaper. It actually got more expensive. PVP Hancers that i would craft and sell before for 5-6m were now suddenly 10m. ATO sets that were 8m were suddenly 12m. Purples that were 15m were now 20-22m. And there is no doubt in my mind that purples, ATOs, WintersIOs, and PVP IOs will likely take another hit in rising prices as suddenly people can not convert unused EMP merits into a revenue stream to purchase them either for themselves or for resale. 

 

At minimum this change could have been accompanied with real price lowering effects for the market. Which would be pretty simple. Adjust the cost of things to earn through game play mechanics. Top end IOs become 50 merits, PVP 40, Orange 30, Yellow 20. Lower the cost of the "packs" on the AH that drop random ATOs and such to about 8 to 10 million per pack. Set a real "why would you pay THAT much of that drop" stance that limits what is a viable price for an item in the market. Then it doesnt matter how much money anyone makes doing anything. And everyone can just get back to playing the game. 

[Rishidian]

On 8/29/2022 at 12:11 PM, Troo said:

..and so the Butt League was formed by Butt Gun and Head Butt who could be seen floating above the city in their butt balloon.

 

I thought that would be the Bubble Butt.

[PFlux]

I've loved this game for a long time, but after this patch.  Fighting with the new content I find myself going from full health to dead in less then half a second.  So after this happening to me across 4 different archtypes, I'm out.  This isn't even on the task forces, just the regular new contact missions.  And it's driven me away from the game.

[biostem]

13 minutes ago, PFlux said:

I've loved this game for a long time, but after this patch.  Fighting with the new content I find myself going from full health to dead in less then half a second.  So after this happening to me across 4 different archtypes, I'm out.  This isn't even on the task forces, just the regular new contact missions.  And it's driven me away from the game.

Isn't the new content supposed to be ultra-difficult?  If that is indeed the case, why would you expect to be able to roll up into it with the same build and approach, and expect to be just as successful?  Even then, it doesn't invalidate all the other content left to experience...

[Bionic_Flea]

I'm sorry you feel that way, PFlux.  I can certainly understand the frustration as I was dying over and over in a 4 star ITF.  We finally completed it and got good rewards, but it was a slog and not fun to me.  Some of that was me, some of that was my teammates, and a lot of it was the insane damage and gimmicks the new NPCs use.  But mostly I think it's the newness and we will all get better with time.

 

If the missions you are talking about is the new Cimeroran missions, those are also designed to be incarnate content and have some of the same critters and powers as the Hardmode ITF.  So yeah, they are hard, especially solo and if you're not 50 with full incarnate powers.

[Grouchybeast]

15 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I'm sorry you feel that way, PFlux.  I can certainly understand the frustration as I was dying over and over in a 4 star ITF.  We finally completed it and got good rewards, but it was a slog and not fun to me.  Some of that was me, some of that was my teammates, and a lot of it was the insane damage and gimmicks the new NPCs use.  But mostly I think it's the newness and we will all get better with time.

 

I think every new TF or iTrial I ever played in the game started off with it being way too hard, and ended up being speed-run solo by an Emp Defender using only the Fighting Pool attacks.

 

(Not long after I came back to the game in 2019 I joined an ITF which turned out to be full of other people who had just come back to the game.  It took nearly three hours (but we did finish it).  Not long after that, I joined a LGTF where all of us were new back to the game and no-one could remember what the heck we had to do with the Hamidon, so we had to take a short wiki break to figure it out.)