Focused Feedback: Battle Axe Revamp

[Major_Decoy]

Beheader makes sense as the name for the weakest attack. You do it against a prone target who has no defenses and has exposed their weakness to you. It's a coup de grace, you don't use force in that. You just follow the weight of the axe home.

[Sanguinesun]

I've been trying to test something with the new cyclone mechanic and I cant come up with conclusive evidence.

 

In order to test this you need to take a power in a set(easiest is the electric fences) that immobilizes aoe of targets or holds them.

 

Then from testing:

 

Are you seeing immobilized/held mobs being pulled in with the cyclone power?

Are you seeing those mobs animation/and or the immobilize itself/held cancelled when pulled in?

 

As I said from testing I'm see sometimes the above occuring(at least in the chaos of it all I think so) and sometimes not.

 

Has anyone else seen/experienced such?

[Dispari]

One thing you might be experiencing is the target cap. On a brute/scrapper the power has a target cap of 10, so it might look like some people don't get pulled, when really the power is at its limit. 10 isn't hard to reach in a large group with a radius of 15 feet. The immobilize powers don't usually cause resistance to repel, so it should be working fine.

Another thing you might be experiencing is that some units (warwolves) have protection against immobilize, and even if you do get it on them, it wears off much faster than usual due to resistance.

Just to do some testing, I did a secondary build and picked up Electrifying Fences and used Axe Cyclone. Enemies are still pulled even while they have the visual effect of lightning around their bodies, unable to move. And I didn't notice it ending on anyone when I used it.

[Major_Decoy]

I'd be curious about immobilizes that provide knock-back resistance and protection.

[Sanguinesun]

2 hours ago, Dispari said:

One thing you might be experiencing is the target cap. On a brute/scrapper the power has a target cap of 10, so it might look like some people don't get pulled, when really the power is at its limit. 10 isn't hard to reach in a large group with a radius of 15 feet. The immobilize powers don't usually cause resistance to repel, so it should be working fine.

Another thing you might be experiencing is that some units (warwolves) have protection against immobilize, and even if you do get it on them, it wears off much faster than usual due to resistance.

Just to do some testing, I did a secondary build and picked up Electrifying Fences and used Axe Cyclone. Enemies are still pulled even while they have the visual effect of lightning around their bodies, unable to move. And I didn't notice it ending on anyone when I used it.

 

I think you misunderstand my testing query partially.

 

Its not about the cap with immobilizing/holds.  Or warwolves(which I do not use for testing).

 

It is whether immobilied/held mobs can be pulled into melee with the cyclone or do they remain outside of the tight melee. 

It is also about whether or not people are seeing the pull cancelling the immobilize/hold when cyclone does its thing.   I can't tell if cyclone is just cancelling the animation or if its actually removing the hold/immobilize.    

 

 I'm seeing inconsistencies that I cannot make adequate confirmation that these 2 things have been occurring or not.

 

So partially you are somewhat confirming that the held/immobilized ---can--- (perhaps) be pulled into the tighter melee range with cyclone from your experience.  I'm hoping to see more information from others on that because IF it is indeed pulling them in that's great!  However if its also breaking the hold/immobilize upon doing it, that's not so good. 

[Troo]

On 10/8/2022 at 10:54 AM, Troo said:

On 10/8/2022 at 10:53 AM, Booper said:

This is a common experience whenever a set goes through a DPA increase. The design formula directly adjusts damage and endurance based on recharge, so you will find all attacks that follow the formula to have a similar Damage per Endurance ratio. So when a power gets a DPA increase, it will also be accompanied with an EPA increase. 

 

Yep. as long as it's a known or as expected on your end.

These changes will result in a respec so it'll all shake out on the player end.

 

 

@Booper I only copied over a completed character. Looking more into the power level changes, lack of slots might exasperate the end drain. Maybe there's on spot that could be end cheap. I'm planning to try an axe in the 25-30 range and confirm.

 

It would just be a bummer to see the set go into the too end hungry to be fun pile. (I'm not against choices and consequences, just don't want folks to be bummed if it feels unplayable paired with some sets. /dark being a non-starter maybe.)

Edited October 9, 2022 by Troo

[Sovera]

3 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

 

@Booper I only copied over a completed character. Looking more into the power level changes, lack of slots might exasperate the end drain. Maybe there's on spot that could be end cheap. I'm planning to try an axe in the 25-30 range and confirm.

 

It would just be a bummer to see the set go into the too end hungry to be fun pile.

 

I have a Fire/Axe Tanker I tried. Consume is a good endurance clickie but there was no endurance problems at 50 with all slotted in.

 

My attempt at doing Yin looked somewhat fine despite being detoggled a few times thanks to the super stunners. I'm not sure how other armor sets will manage if they don't have endurance reduction. I know I eyeballed and built a Stone/Axe for the lava theme and Mids said there was no way it would work without changing Musculature to Cardiac.

 

I can post either if you'd like a look but it's pretty generic.

[Troo]

@Sovera I'm going try one from scratch. Thanks though. It looks like we're thinking the same thing.

 

How were all the extra powers in Yin? That's on of those TFs impacted by the level changes.

[Sovera]

4 minutes ago, Troo said:

@Sovera I'm going try one from scratch. Thanks though. It looks like we're thinking the same thing.

 

How were all the extra powers in Yin? That's on of those TFs impacted by the level changes.

 

Not much difference for Yin for me. I had to choose between Cleave and Fiery Embrace and took Fiery Embrace Might be smarter to take Cleave to complete the attack chain though.

[Parabola]

Is there any chance of having customisation options for the colour of the fx on axe cyclone, pendulum and cleave? They are quite intrusive as it stands unless you happen to have a yellow theme (and even then axe cyclone is different from the other two).

[Yomo Kimyata]

I spent a bit more time on Beta, and I stand by my previous post entirely.

 

However, you had not mentioned that Pendulum took a damage hit as it moved to T5 for scrappers -- you might want to add that to the notes.  Swoop, Cleave, Whirling Axe/Axe Cyclone all maintain the same damage levels.  Even with the lower damage that it was when it was T9 it is way too overpowered in comparison to every other melee power I can think of to be available at level 8, in my not-so-humble opinion.  Its closest analogue now is Spinning Strike, which is a T7 for Street Justice which in and of itself is a very strong T7.

 

 

[SomeGuy]

Is the range increase on Cleave a typo? It was 10. Says it's going to 40.

[Lazarillo]

6 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

Is the range increase on Cleave a typo? It was 10. Says it's going to 40.

Not a typo (unless they decide to change it back).  Cleave is now a ranged attack with a very small AoE (very small) , rather than a melee cone.

[SomeGuy]

19 minutes ago, Lazarillo said:

Not a typo (unless they decide to change it back).  Cleave is now a ranged attack with a very small AoE (very small) , rather than a melee cone.

 

Not gonna lie, I'm going to be very surprised this set isn't a monster now. I'll have to play around on Brainstorm with one tomorrow with the changes. I was thinking the changes to Cleave taking Targeted AOE sets was a nerf at first, but with certain combinations (looking at how I build Axe/Bio for example) this could be a really nasty buff. This means getting two extra -RES procs with that combination, whereas before you were only getting the one slotted in genetic contamination. And the AOE changes to the set look pretty gnarly.

 

The changes look pretty gnarly. Press follow on target. Build Up. Cleave. ATO2 proc goes off. You are at target. Axe Cyclone. Pull everything to you. Pendulum. Fall in to a ST rotation and you use Axe Cyclone and Pendulum when up.

 

*Cleave and Focus are the same range now. lol

Edited October 11, 2022 by SomeGuy

[BrandX]

9 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

 

Not gonna lie, I'm going to be very surprised this set isn't a monster now. I'll have to play around on Brainstorm with one tomorrow with the changes. I was thinking the changes to Cleave taking Targeted AOE sets was a nerf at first, but with certain combinations (looking at how I build Axe/Bio for example) this could be a really nasty buff. This means getting two extra -RES procs with that combination, whereas before you were only getting the one slotted in genetic contamination. And the AOE changes to the set look pretty gnarly.

 

The changes look pretty gnarly. Press follow on target. Build Up. Cleave. ATO2 proc goes off. You are at target. Axe Cyclone. Pull everything to you. Pendulum. Fall in to a ST rotation and you use Axe Cyclone and Pendulum when up.

 

*Cleave and Focus are the same range now. lol

 

Well, Cleave and Pendulum both continue to take Melee AOE sets, they don't take the Targeted AOE sets.

[SomeGuy]

14 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

Well, Cleave and Pendulum both continue to take Melee AOE sets, they don't take the Targeted AOE sets.

 

 

Literally just now dealing with this. Cleave and Pendulum are for sure doing just that.

[BrandX]

Just now, SomeGuy said:

 

 

Literally just now dealing with this. Cleave and Pendulum are for sure doing just that.

 

Hmmm...weird, I was on my tanker and neither one would let me replace my melee aoe enhancements with the targeted set.

[Player2]

On 10/4/2022 at 8:12 PM, Captain Powerhouse said:

It's not supposed to be customizable at all.

Well, I can't say that I like that.

[SomeGuy]

8 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

Hmmm...weird, I was on my tanker and neither one would let me replace my melee aoe enhancements with the targeted set.

 

 

Lemme clarify. They also won't let me slot Targeted AOE sets. Just did a few runs with this build:

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.1.2.5
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Technology Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Battle Axe
Secondary Power Set: Bio Armor
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Chop -- HO:Nucle(A), Dmg-I(5), GldStr-%Dam(7), TchofDth-Dam%(7), Empty(9), FrcFdb-Rechg%(9)
Level 1: Hardened Carapace -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(3), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(3), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 2: Inexhaustible -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 4: Environmental Modification -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(15), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(25)
Level 6: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), RechRdx-I(34), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 8: Swoop -- HO:Nucle(A), Hct-Dmg(11), Hct-Dam%(11), GldStr-%Dam(13), TchofDth-Dam%(13), FrcFdb-Rechg%(15)
Level 10: Adaptation
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 16: Ablative Carapace -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal(17), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(17), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(23), Prv-Heal/Rchg(23), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(25)
Level 18: Whirling Axe -- SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(A), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(19), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 20: Evolving Armor -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 26: Cleave -- HO:Nucle(A), Dmg-I(27), Obl-%Dam(27), Erd-%Dam(29), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(29), FrcFdb-Rechg%(31)
Level 28: DNA Siphon -- Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Obl-Dmg(31), Obl-Acc/Rchg(31), Obl-%Dam(33), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(33), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(49)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(33), RedFrt-Def(34)
Level 32: Pendulum -- Obl-%Dam(A), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Obl-Acc/Rchg(40), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(43), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 35: Genetic Contamination -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(36), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Arm-Dam%(36), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(37), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(37)
Level 38: Parasitic Aura -- DctWnd-Rchg(A), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx(39), DctWnd-Heal(39), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(39), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Zapp -- HO:Nucle(A), Apc-Dmg(42), Apc-Dam%(42), Dcm-Build%(42), StnoftheM-Dam%(43), GldJvl-Dam%(43)
Level 44: Ball Lightning -- Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Rgn-Dmg(45), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(45), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(47), Rct-ResDam%(47)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Brawl -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(48), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 49: Quick Form
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 10: Defensive Adaptation
Level 10: Efficient Adaptation
Level 10: Offensive Adaptation
------------

 

 

Averaged 1:24. That's most likely gonna go down once I can slot the other -RES proc. Gonna try out the AOE in a few. It's pewp and gym o'clock or I'd do it now.

[BrandX]

1 minute ago, SomeGuy said:

 

 

Lemme clarify. They also won't let me slot Targeted AOE sets. Just did a few runs with this build:

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.1.2.5
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Technology Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Battle Axe
Secondary Power Set: Bio Armor
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Chop -- HO:Nucle(A), Dmg-I(5), GldStr-%Dam(7), TchofDth-Dam%(7), Empty(9), FrcFdb-Rechg%(9)
Level 1: Hardened Carapace -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(3), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(3), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 2: Inexhaustible -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 4: Environmental Modification -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(15), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(25)
Level 6: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), RechRdx-I(34), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 8: Swoop -- HO:Nucle(A), Hct-Dmg(11), Hct-Dam%(11), GldStr-%Dam(13), TchofDth-Dam%(13), FrcFdb-Rechg%(15)
Level 10: Adaptation
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 16: Ablative Carapace -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal(17), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(17), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(23), Prv-Heal/Rchg(23), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(25)
Level 18: Whirling Axe -- SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(A), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(19), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 20: Evolving Armor -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 26: Cleave -- HO:Nucle(A), Dmg-I(27), Obl-%Dam(27), Erd-%Dam(29), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(29), FrcFdb-Rechg%(31)
Level 28: DNA Siphon -- Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Obl-Dmg(31), Obl-Acc/Rchg(31), Obl-%Dam(33), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(33), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(49)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(33), RedFrt-Def(34)
Level 32: Pendulum -- Obl-%Dam(A), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Obl-Acc/Rchg(40), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(43), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 35: Genetic Contamination -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(36), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Arm-Dam%(36), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(37), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(37)
Level 38: Parasitic Aura -- DctWnd-Rchg(A), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx(39), DctWnd-Heal(39), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(39), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Zapp -- HO:Nucle(A), Apc-Dmg(42), Apc-Dam%(42), Dcm-Build%(42), StnoftheM-Dam%(43), GldJvl-Dam%(43)
Level 44: Ball Lightning -- Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Rgn-Dmg(45), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(45), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(47), Rct-ResDam%(47)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Brawl -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(48), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 49: Quick Form
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 10: Defensive Adaptation
Level 10: Efficient Adaptation
Level 10: Offensive Adaptation
------------

 
 

 

 

 

Averaged 1:24. That's most likely gonna go down once I can slot the other -RES proc. Gonna try out the AOE in a few. It's pewp and gym o'clock or I'd do it now.

 

Oh, okay.  Sorry to have misread.  Wonder if they're going to change up the slotting.  Cleave can't enhance it's range, which I believe Focus can, so I wonder if it'll get the range sets.

[SomeGuy]

Yo, the AOE is pretty fun. Cleave, Cyclone, Pendulum, and Ball Lightning is really wrecking things.

 

*This is more fun than I anticipated.  The "vacuum" effect from Cyclone is a real nice touch. Hats off to whoever came up with that idea. It doesn't feel OP, just feels slick. I'll get access to my normal "farm" mission and see if that really is the case. It's pretty cool to wack things with the giant Rikti axe.

Edited October 11, 2022 by SomeGuy

[Captain Powerhouse]

Clarification: powers are not going to change the enhancement sets they accept.

 

Although Cleave is a blurry line power at 40ft range, there is a reason "Targeted AoE" sets were renamed to "Ranged AoE" sets a while back. They should only go into ranged AoE attacks that accept range enhancements.

[Dispari]

Actually really glad to hear that. Set slotting variety can be nice but I really think the ranged sets are a downgrade for melees, build-wise.

[Frosticus]

Played an axe/ea scrap last night for a couple hrs. I've always liked axe, but never saw reason to play it over warmace, or even broadsword really.

 

Some observations:

Swoop has so much knockup that it can cause enemies to be out of range of other melee attacks (vs +0). It probably always did, but the trimmed animation probably makes it more apparent. 

- cued chop generally executed well. cued gash sometimes wouldn't fire until they hit the ground. I'd want to test this more.

 

Axe Cyclone sometimes doesn't seem to tractor beam in enemies that you'd think it would. Is there a suppression period on the reverse repel? Fighting smaller groups of 7ish enemies. Maybe I'll watch the combat log to see if it was simply missing.

- otherwise this power is the bee's knees setting up pendulum and even cleave to be more successful. It also makes armor auras perform better.

- I can think of quite a few places where this tech would be better suited than a melee pbaoe, but it is great that axe got it.

 

Pendulum was always an easy cone to use, but I prefer the new aoe version

Cleave is really easy to hit 2-3 targets with after Cyclone.

 

Excellent single target damage, good aoe that offers additional synergy, and pretty solid single target mitigation. It leaves broadsword in the dust, but still leaves warmace looking decent.

Nice job. I'd recommend pairing it with an armor that offers endurance management because this set can suck down the blue bar pretty quickly.

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Frosticus

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Clarification: powers are not going to change the enhancement sets they accept.

 

Although Cleave is a blurry line power at 40ft range, there is a reason "Targeted AoE" sets were renamed to "Ranged AoE" sets a while back. They should only go into ranged AoE attacks that accept range enhancements.

 

Then, why does Spinning Strike in Street Justice still take Ranged AOE?