Character Respec's

[Mezicus]

A lot of us having been playing for years (most from back on Live, but many newcomers as well) and many of us have over 100 level 50 characters.  Why the large roster, many people would ask?  Well, for some it's a max/min thing, for others it's to make a beloved hero come to life, and for a few it's about finding that perfect combination of powers that really makes you happy.

 

After doing TF's, writing a bio, gathering badges, and playing a character all the way up to 50 you find that the character doesn't work for you.  Now this toon is to sit on the shelf for an indefinite period of time (or at least until the dev's make a change to one of the powersets)? 

 

What if the respec TF's didn't just let you repick your powers, but they let you change your powersets (maybe just your secondary or something)?!  It doesn't seem like it would be a complete logistical nightmare and it would give those toons that were loved too much to throw away, but not enough to go into the starting lineup, a second chance at being great again.  Consequently, it would also alleviate a lot of the grinding through the game repeatedly, since people wouldn't feel the need to "start over" with a character.  Instead, it would be a reimagining of a character you have already developed a familial bond with.  It would also reduce the occurrence of the "door-sitting do-nothing's" that live in AE.

 

Food for thought about the implementation of a streamline tool that would solve some problems and spread some happiness

[TheZag]

I want to say that certain things are baked into the code and the game really doesnt want to change them.  Ive heard origin cant be changed after character creation for example.  Even adding an extra enhancement slot made the game go bonkers, ive been told.  AE door sitters arent a good thing or a bad thing,  they are just a thing.  I dont mind the idea of recycling a character but my guess is that it cant be done from ingame.

 

Id be more inclined to go for something like delete a 50 and get a lvl 28 character creation token.  But even then,  xp is so fast when we want it to be that its hardly necessary.

 

[Greycat]

Yes. Primary, secondary, archetype and origin are baked in to the character. They're not changeable.

 

[biostem]

5 hours ago, Mezicus said:

What if the respec TF's didn't just let you repick your powers, but they let you change your powersets (maybe just your secondary or something)?!

Roll an "easy" AT/powerset combo to level, get it to 50, then respec into what you "really" wanted to play - seems kind of like an exploit to me.  Just roll what you really want, and if you can't stomach the sub-50 content, there's lots of ways to expedite that journey.  Further, you can pretty much change your name, costume, and even body type at-will, so there's nothing there holding you back.  Heck, you can even get enh unslotters and mail items to your own account if that's what you're after...

[Six-Six]

This has happened to me several times: I have a fairly decent concept + costume + back story for a toon. Power sets/combos are picked and the level up process begins. (It should be noted that I enjoy the lower levels so power levelling is not something I tend to consider). At certain levels, there are signs that the toon will or will not work. Sometimes it's as early as 10, sometimes as late as 45. So I hit a respec to strip whatever IOs I have on him/her, sell, stash or email whatever assets the toon has accumulated and roll the toon to a more fitting AT + power sets.

As people have mentioned, XP is really easy to come by, especially if that's your main goal. I don't see why re-rolling a toon would be hard, more so if you've found that the current iteration of your concept isn't working.

[Mezicus]

10 hours ago, biostem said:

Roll an "easy" AT/powerset combo to level, get it to 50, then respec into what you "really" wanted to play - seems kind of like an exploit to me.  Just roll what you really want, and if you can't stomach the sub-50 content, there's lots of ways to expedite that journey.  Further, you can pretty much change your name, costume, and even body type at-will, so there's nothing there holding you back.  Heck, you can even get enh unslotters and mail items to your own account if that's what you're after...

Really not the intention, or even what I described.  I was talking about playing a character and developing an attachment to it and not wanting to throw it away because the combo didn’t make you happy.  If the logistics don’t work, that’s unfortunate but I get it. I wasn’t describing starting an “easy” combo.  I was describing a bond you form with a character through playing.  Was only after giving loved characters a new chance at greatness.

[biostem]

11 minutes ago, Mezicus said:

Really not the intention, or even what I described.  I was talking about playing a character and developing an attachment to it and not wanting to throw it away because the combo didn’t make you happy.  If the logistics don’t work, that’s unfortunate but I get it. I wasn’t describing starting an “easy” combo.  I was describing a bond you form with a character through playing.  Was only after giving loved characters a new chance at greatness.

And I was pointing out how such a feature would likely get used.

[srmalloy]

4 minutes ago, Mezicus said:

I wasn’t describing starting an “easy” combo.

It doesn't matter what you intended with your suggestion; how people would use it is the issue. And the classic example of this is Aeon Entertainment -- the devs intended it to be a way for players to make and share missions, rather than having to wait for additional official content to be released. Instead, it kicked the existing farm missions to the curb and became the go-to place for powerleveling, with the devs fighting a losing battle against it, having to settle for whacking the outright exploits (mobs that were not intended to be used in isolation and had no attacks, allowing for high-reward, zero-risk farms), and trying to ban the use of terms indicating missions were farms just resulted in new terms being created each time one was banned (I remember when 'meow mission' was the current euphemism for a farm). Far too many players are going to choose the fastest, easiest way to get what they want, and if you give them a way to level an 'easy' powerset combo then change it to one that's hard to level once they reach the level cap, they'll do it.

[Mezicus]

Apparently this is a terrible idea.  Apologies for trying to suggest ideas that would make the game more enjoyable for people.  Probably best to keep my opinions to my circle of friends.  Thank you for the replies that were constructive.

[Sirius.Games]

I think one component of this is some characters are just fun at different stages. There's early blooming, late blooming and everything in between.

 

CoH in it's evolution never became a quality end game game. Depending on my mood I'll play different things but it's more often not lvl 50 content. This lends it to the enhancements and how sets change or the power peak. We don't know until we get to the point it doesn't become fun anymore.

 

I believe you can know how a set plays by the 30s which really doesn't take long to get to. If you need 50 then it's the enhancements that didn't live up to it. This is more true now than ever with the early power selections.

 

If it's not fun at 50 and you didn't enjoy getting to 50 my apologies but I believe you don't have to get to 50 to understand what a set will play like and getting to 30 doesn't take much time at all if you want to do it quick. If you don't like a set getting to 30 it's unlikely you will like it at 50.

 

Even if it were possible I don't believe a power set Respec wouldn't be valuable to the game. This also gets to the slippery slope to deleting a character gives you a token to create a hero at that level.

 

Another option is to beta server the character. Play around at 50 with everything you plan to have and see if you enjoy it. Quicker than running respec trials.

[Glacier Peak]

16 hours ago, Greycat said:

Yes. Primary, secondary, archetype and origin are baked in to the character. They're not changeable.

While they can't be removed once granted, powersets can be added.

[Troo]

21 hours ago, Mezicus said:

spread some happiness

 

I like the idea.

• I like that a player is familiar with the archetype.
• I like it being just one power set.
• I like that many of the the IOs on a higher character might still be applicable.

Take any absolute 'can't be done' or 'it'll be abused' comments with a grain of salt. N34RLy 3V3RyTHiNG iS PoSSiBL3, taking into account balance, health of the game, dev resources, and so forth.

 

What do you think an appropriate cost should be?

Earning it is good. I also like a level cost for this type of feature. (it encourages some additional play and the associated drops while creating an opportunity to)

 

example: I leveled up a Ice/Time Corrupter and before 50 it just wasn't going to work out... and so it sits. This is not uncommon with Alt-i-tus. I like everything about it except Time. I've got badges & accolades that show it's been played. I would give up 10 levels and some more stuff to be able to swap Time out.

 

 

5 hours ago, srmalloy said:

It doesn't matter what you intended with your suggestion; how people would use it is the issue.

 

Would it be abused if it was really the second or third easiest/best way to accomplish the same result?

 

For more casual players this might be the best option but for a triple boxed min/max billions per hour power leveler.. maybe not so much.

 

 

@All, would folks rather see swap-able primary or secondary powersets, OR insta-level 50s?

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Troo

[Yaliw]

No.

[srmalloy]

9 hours ago, Troo said:

@All, would folks rather see swap-able primary or secondary powersets, OR insta-level 50s?

"Would you rather have your right leg removed using a rusty hand saw and no anesthesia, OR your left?" Your question exhibits the fallacy of bifurcation, implying that one or the other choice is required, when in fact neither is necessary.

[Troo]

1 hour ago, srmalloy said:

"Would you rather have your right leg removed using a rusty hand saw and no anesthesia, OR your left?" Your question exhibits the fallacy of bifurcation, implying that one or the other choice is required, when in fact neither is necessary.

 

it's just a question.

 

trooth: we are specks in a void existing as mere blips on an unfathomable timeline.

 

..and, i'd go with the left leg.

see how easy it is to answer a question.

[Rudra]

When someone asks you which leg you would rather lose with a rusty hacksaw and no anesthesia? Use both legs to get away.

 

Edit: Which is basically my answer to your question. I'll take neither option and call it good. Thanks.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Rudra

[WumpusRat]

While it might be interesting to see an ability to "respec" a character beyond just re-picking the powers within your set, I'm not sure it's actually feasible from a code standpoint. Not without completely rewriting the archetype system from the ground up.

 

Generally what I do is if I have an idea for a character with a certain powerset, I'll roll them up on the test server, bump them up to 50 and configure them with generic IOs, and see how they play, if it's a combo that I'm not familiar with -- therefore I don't really know what sets would be best for them. If it plays well and I have fun with generic IOs, then I know the set will be even more fun once I get proper sets built in and have a better understanding of how everything works together.

 

Definitely saves me a ton of headaches if I try out a combo at 50 and realize that it's not as fun as I hoped it would be, especially since it usually takes me a week or two to go from 1-50 if I'm just focusing on one character.

[golstat2003]

7 minutes ago, WumpusRat said:

While it might be interesting to see an ability to "respec" a character beyond just re-picking the powers within your set, I'm not sure it's actually feasible from a code standpoint. Not without completely rewriting the archetype system from the ground up.

 

Generally what I do is if I have an idea for a character with a certain powerset, I'll roll them up on the test server, bump them up to 50 and configure them with generic IOs, and see how they play, if it's a combo that I'm not familiar with -- therefore I don't really know what sets would be best for them. If it plays well and I have fun with generic IOs, then I know the set will be even more fun once I get proper sets built in and have a better understanding of how everything works together.

 

Definitely saves me a ton of headaches if I try out a combo at 50 and realize that it's not as fun as I hoped it would be, especially since it usually takes me a week or two to go from 1-50 if I'm just focusing on one character.

 

The devs in a recent thread pretty much explained that there have been many ideas they wanted to do that they pretty much got stopped in their tracks due to this game's ancient code or engine. I imagine this one might one of those times.

[Zepp]

This idea reminds me of Star Wars Galaxy. It had the ability to respec and all of a sudden you saw tons of toons in the Cantina AFK leveling through dancing. They would then respec to other trees... There isn't an equivalent to "Entertainer" in CoH, but leveling a non-Illusion Troller to 18 and then respeccing into Illusion so that you could skip the pre-PA grind would be very appealing...

[Zect]

I have no particular opinion on the suggestion. I am just here to point out the amusing assertion that it will reduce the number of AE doorsitters, which you and I know it won’t. People doorsit because they are lazy/entitled, and that’s two power sets you can’t respec out of!