Small suggestion

[Crossie]

So I understand that this might be a reason to flame somebody but I really believe we have an incredibly mature player base.  Most of us are older than 70 years old so we can handle it!

 

I'd like to see a damage meter added to the game when joining task forces.  I'd like to know if I am on par or below par with the rest of my group and of course if somebody is performing at superstar levels, i'd love to pick their brain!  Maybe a mod already exists for this but if not, I would gladly welcome it being added to the game.  

 

EDIT!!!! ---------   So after receiving a great deal of feedback I agree that it would be a great addition to the game if it were implemented in a blind way not revealing other teammate names on a delay after TF ends (an hour or two) sent through e-mail.  It would also need to include other stats as well such as damage mitigation, damage created as a result of debuffs, healing done, self mitigating damage, mitigated damage done to others by your buffs, damage done through amplifying damage buffs, heal other, time duration mobs held, confused, blinded etc.  It really could be something great if done right that doesn't lead to toxicity.  

 

Food for thought.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Crossie

[roleki]

Well, that's fargin' weird.  Answered this and went to edit it, and my response disappeared.

 

Anyway, gist was: while the suggestion is not a bad idea in and of itself, I could see it leading to calamity of e-peen measuring.

 

The game kind of already tells you where your DPS ranks with the AT icons; knowledge of the various primary/secondary pairings in a given AT will let you refine those rankings.

 

I would also suggest that if you click a teammates Character Info and look at the Powers tab, you can kind of infer how the build is set up from there: if there's lots of set bonuses that fill the screen, or NO bonuses at all, they likely aren't using damage procs to Amp their DPS.  If they have only a handful of set bonuses, they likely are leaning very heavily on damage (or other) procs and will out-damage their peers within that same AT.

[Nayeh]

Have you ever played a MOBA? Damage measurements make excellent talking points for sparking toxicity.

 

Not to mention, there are so many other variables to consider when determining success. It would be unfair to not recognize the efforts of other players and their contributions - Healing, Damage Received, Crowd-Control, Objective completions, etc.

[Greycat]

"Most damage" doesn't mean best/most useful. How about the low-damage support that's buffing those people to hit those numbers and keep everyone alive, for starters?

 

Just no. We don't need "damage ranking" or anything like that sparking arguments.

[Parabola]

This just isn't that kind of game. Contribution to a team is measured in so much more than damage. Even if you were to just try to look at damage what would you measure? Single target burst? Aoe burst? Sustained damage of either or both? Damage against heavily resistant targets? Damage against targets that can pop godmodes?

 

If you are of an appropriate level for the content then you can contribute. If you are worried that you could be slotted better or that sort of thing then the forums are the place to ask.

[Crossie]

Some good points.  I know in league, (terrible example I know because of how toxic it is) but they have some REALLY nice filters.  Self healing - teammate healing - damage taken - self mitigated damage - damage mitigated to others from your abilities -

 

I'm sure even other things like amount of time mobs were controlled - amount of time mobs were aggroed to you could be done as well.  

 

Detailed stats would be great to see.  I'd venture to say by providing detailed stats, people would find a new appreciation for what Defenders do for their team!

[dangeraaron10]

Every game I play that uses this feature generally enables the same behaviors.

 

I'm afraid I can't support DPS meters.

[Luminara]

3 hours ago, Crossie said:

I'd like to see a damage meter added to the game when joining task forces.

 

Then you also need a heal meter.  And buff meters.  And debuff meters.  And control meters.  And all of the meters will have to account for +/- Special so the appropriate player is credited, and each of the control meters will need to reflect exactly how they contributed to the team's performance...

 

If you're going to open this can of worms, you need something for all of the worms, not just one.

[roleki]

6 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Then you also need a heal meter.  And buff meters.  And debuff meters.  And control meters.  And all of the meters will have to account for +/- Special so the appropriate player is credited, and each of the control meters will need to reflect exactly how they contributed to the team's performance...

 

If you're going to open this can of worms, you need something for all of the worms, not just one.

 

Now that I am thinking about it, wasn't there a brief time where the XP/inf (both?) were doled out proportionate to how much damage the character dealt to the defeated mob?  So Defenders and whatnot would get trickles of XP and the Scrappers/Blasters would get gobs of it? 

 

For some reason that sticks out in my brain right now, and I am sure that is why I shelved my first character (Grav/Kin) in favor of an En/En blaster, because I got to the Hollows and everybody was leveling-up every 30s and my dude was stuck in stasis. 

 

Typing it now, the memory seems right but maybe I'm thinking of another game, though I can't imagine which it would be.

 

Anyway, point being, seems like the game used to TELL you how much damage you were doing without a damage meter, is what I'm saying, and I recall it being awful.

[Astralock]

1. Most of us, in fact, are not over 70 years-old.  A lot of us are over 40 (myself included), but over 70?  No.  There's also a surprising number of players at age 30 or under who played City of Heroes live when they were in their preteens or teen years.

 

2. Heck no to damage meters.  I specifically refuse to play any MMOG with damage meters (which is most of them now), because it just breeds toxicity.  Homecoming already has a problem with toxicity over the past year or so, no need to make it even worse.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, roleki said:

Now that I am thinking about it, wasn't there a brief time where the XP/inf (both?) were doled out proportionate to how much damage the character dealt to the defeated mob?

 

As far as I know, that's the system we use now.  But I haven't teamed for anything but the Troll rave badge since 2011, and I'm always well past receiving other rewards when doing that, so I wouldn't know if it was changed.

 

My recollection is that we originally had a tagging system, wherein whoever hit a critter first would always get all of the rewards.  The purpose of that system was to prevent  "kill stealing"... but it was ridiculously exploitable, and heavily exploited, for power-leveling (lowbie tags critters, 50 blitzes critters, lowbie receives full rewards, rinse, repeat).  As Cryptic had an overwhelming hatred of power-leveling, they changed it to the proportional rewards structure we have today (presuming it wasn't changed shortly before or any time after the game was shut down. not something i care to test, either, so someone else can find out).

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, roleki said:

 

Now that I am thinking about it, wasn't there a brief time where the XP/inf (both?) were doled out proportionate to how much damage the character dealt to the defeated mob?

 

Yes, there was a time when xp and influence were awarded based on the damage you did to mobs. And Controllers (and some Defenders) would go through missions keeping the team alive and either not get rewards from defeats or would get little rewards from defeats.

 

(Edit: The OP was requested before. I'm as opposed to it now as I was then. Mostly for the reasons already given by those on this thread.)

Edited February 3, 2023 by Rudra

[Captain Fabulous]

8 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

As far as I know, that's the system we use now.  But I haven't teamed for anything but the Troll rave badge since 2011, and I'm always well past receiving other rewards when doing that, so I wouldn't know if it was changed.

 

My recollection is that we originally had a tagging system, wherein whoever hit a critter first would always get all of the rewards.  The purpose of that system was to prevent  "kill stealing"... but it was ridiculously exploitable, and heavily exploited, for power-leveling (lowbie tags critters, 50 blitzes critters, lowbie receives full rewards, rinse, repeat).  As Cryptic had an overwhelming hatred of power-leveling, they changed it to the proportional rewards structure we have today (presuming it wasn't changed shortly before or any time after the game was shut down. not something i care to test, either, so someone else can find out).

I don't think XP and INF are scaled based on damage, and haven't been for a long while (if it ever was). You can be on a team and do no damage at all and still get the same XP/INF as everyone else (adjusted for level). If it was scaled at one time it must have been pretty early on in the game. I honestly can't seem to remember one way or the other.

I do remember the tagging thing tho, vaguely, cause kill stealing was a big issue in the beginning. I also remember all kinds of issues with things like the original Nemesis Staff, and how the person that clicked the glowie was the one who got the staff even if it wasn't their mission. I also seem to remember they went thru a few different failed attempts to make it fair and equitable before settling on having it given as a completion reward to the mission owner.

I also want to say that at one time whomever got the killing blow was the one to receive the associated enhancement or inspiration drop, tho I'm feeling a bit vague on this one too. It's scratching at my brain, but all pretty hazy after 20 years. Pretty sure that was one of the big issues with the rampant kill stealing.

[Luminara]

6 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

I don't think XP and INF are scaled based on damage, and haven't been for a long while (if it ever was). You can be on a team and do no damage at all and still get the same XP/INF as everyone else (adjusted for level). If it was scaled at one time it must have been pretty early on in the game. I honestly can't seem to remember one way or the other.

 

Proportional reward distribution isn't applied to teams, teaming has its own XP/inf* distribution system.  A proportional reward system was never in place for teams because it would have  disincentivized low damage archetypes, specifically defenders and controllers, and been contrary to a fundamental design element of the game.

 

Solo, XP/inf* have always been proportional to damage dealt.  When two or more teams are fighting the same enemy or enemies, the same rule applies.  You can drop in at any zone invasion event or mothership raid, participate solo or make a duo and see it in action.  The entity dealing more damage always receives more XP and inf*, whether that entity is an individual player or a team.  Every member of the team will receive the same XP/inf* as his/her teammates, adjusted for level, but it won't be exactly the same as the XP/inf* that members of another team receive.

[biostem]

They could do a blind sort of stat panel, like "Most damage done, least damage done, average damage done, and your damage" without disclosing other players' names, so you see how you measure up, but no one else can...

[Rudra]

A blind data panel won't do what the author wants. And if the goal is to tweak your character for max efficiency or power, asking on the forums is still a better option.

[Captain Fabulous]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

Solo, XP/inf* have always been proportional to damage dealt.  When two or more teams are fighting the same enemy or enemies, the same rule applies.  You can drop in at any zone invasion event or mothership raid, participate solo or make a duo and see it in action.  The entity dealing more damage always receives more XP and inf*, whether that entity is an individual player or a team.  Every member of the team will receive the same XP/inf* as his/her teammates, adjusted for level, but it won't be exactly the same as the XP/inf* that members of another team receive.

Ah yes, I misunderstood. This is definitely the case.

[Crossie]

What if the stats were e-mailed to you 2 hours after task force ends rather than a live meter?  Also state meter doesn't disclose other player names.  I just really want to see if I am on par with what is expected of whatever i'm playing such as damage mitigation, healing, damage, etc. 

[Doc_Scorpion]

26 minutes ago, Crossie said:

  I just really want to see if I am on par with what is expected

Expected by who, based on what?

[Zepp]

19 hours ago, roleki said:

I would also suggest that if you click a teammates Character Info and look at the Powers tab, you can kind of infer how the build is set up from there: if there's lots of set bonuses that fill the screen, or NO bonuses at all, they likely aren't using damage procs to Amp their DPS.  If they have only a handful of set bonuses, they likely are leaning very heavily on damage (or other) procs and will out-damage their peers within that same AT.

Yup, damage procs, atm, are kinda unbalancing. They proc-builds don't work as well, in my experience, for soloing (you sacrifice too much in set bonuses), but in team play they can be extremely powerful. Didn't the devs say somewhere that they were planning to adjust how procs work in order to make them more balanced?

[BZRKR]

3 hours ago, Crossie said:

What if the stats were e-mailed to you 2 hours after task force ends rather than a live meter?  Also state meter doesn't disclose other player names.  I just really want to see if I am on par with what is expected of whatever i'm playing such as damage mitigation, healing, damage, etc. 

Are the teams you're on completing the content they attempt? If so, in my opinion, you are "meeting expectations".

 

If you wanted to know your own DPS, maybe there is a way to save a chat text log for a chat window with the damage channel only, and then you just add it up and divide by the time (turn on timestamps). Or pick an Elite Boss or AV and see how long it takes for you to solo it. 

 

It's super fun to tinker with your build and make your perfect monster character that does cool stuff. However, consider that finding out if you are doing as much damage as you want to does not require a system to be added to the game that monitors all players.

[SeraphimKensai]

I'm a statistics junky and I like numbers. That said I used to be in a hardcore raid guild in WoW and would go back and forth with another Warlock for top damage on the server. We'd occasionally even play together and shoot the shit. The guy turned out to be alright.

 

During that time I also was hounded by people trying to poach me for their guilds or ask me why my DPS was better than theirs, etc.

 

I've personally tried to keep a philosophy where I keep my e-peen smaller than my actual peen. I'm not infallible, if you need proof just ask my wife about me, as she told me I fucked up three different times yesterday (I jest).

 

So while I love stats, I'd rather a damage, buff, or debuff meter be for private use, and compare individual data against AT and Powerset averages instead of individuals in your team, sg, or league.

[Crossie]

2 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Expected by who, based on what?

Expected by me.  When I play, I do like to know if I am effectively playing at, below, or above average.  I would use it as a tool to measure my optimization levels and tweak builds based on results.  I suppose it's a min/max mentality (which isn't taboo at all.  Literally we have tens of thousands of threads dedicated to theory crafting on this forum).

[lemming]

iirc, there was a brief period where the xp/inf wasn't proportional at all with non-teamed members.  Something about a low level char getting several levels out of doing a couple pips of damage against a high level mob.

 

Now it's more proportional between teams, though I'd like to see it distributed thru leagues at some point.

 

On original topic:

You can get a decent idea of your own standing via the combat logs, but trying to compare to other members of your team, not great metrics.  Even comparing the same AT can get a bit dicey with secondary power effects.   If player A debuffs the resistance of a mob allowing player B to do more damage, what number gets added?

 

And a lot of DPS is passively added by defense/health/stamina/recharge buffs allowing the damage dealers to not needing to pause their DPS to recover.

[BrandX]

Most over 70?  I'm not sure I think that's right.  😛

 

However, while I'm not against a damage meter, I will disagree with age stopping any toxicity on that aspect.