The ATs I want to team with and why

[Seed22]

1 minute ago, Snarky said:

This is funny.  Back in the dawn of Redside.....The Devs envisioned MMs as the Redside Tank.  Redside teams quickly determined the damn things were too slow to do the job.  Especially when Brute players were charging the mobs.  (Fury mechanic was way different then, there was a definite reward for cannonballing fresh spawns in +++damage) 

Yeah I find that interesting as hell! I mean think about it: MM tanks..wish folks did that more back then. Woulda been awesome to see this lil 800 HP dude herding mobs lol! Now it’s lost it’s pazazz 😞

 

 

But yeah they’re wayyyyy too goddamn slow. WHY are mercs, trained men mind you, moving like a regular joe schmoe who’se been asked by his wife to go to the store after the game just started?

[Erratic1]

I am half-tempted to recruit for a TF of "just damage"--Blasters, Scrappers, and Sentinels. Seismic/Tactical Arrow Blaster comes to mind as something I might want to bring to such a team.

[ZemX]

25 minutes ago, Snarky said:

This is funny.  Back in the dawn of Redside.....The Devs envisioned MMs as the Redside Tank. 

 

I keep hearing this but if this was ever their plan, they dumped it before release.  Brutes were given the Tanker's toolset... not MMs.  They were tougher, had Tanker threat levels, punch-voke (unless this got added later?), and the autohit AoE Taunt.  They also got Tanker-ish armor sets like Stone.  It wasn't the players who decided they were redside's tanks.  It was the design.

 

I can imagine there was probably some discussion about how MMs *could* tank, but in the same sense anyone can, by taking Provoke in the pools and then just trying to keep aggro with constant attacks.  MMs do have the numerical advantage and their pets are at least Scrapper equivalent in terms of threat generation level.  And to a certain extent they can replenish them during a fight as they are defeated.  So doable? Sure.  But hell, I've "tanked" for PuGs on a Stalker before.  IOs make a lot of silly things possible these days.

[Snarky]

1 minute ago, ZemX said:

 

I keep hearing this but if this was ever their plan, they dumped it before release.  Brutes were given the Tanker's toolset... not MMs.  They were tougher, had Tanker threat levels, punch-voke (unless this got added later?), and the autohit AoE Taunt.  They also got Tanker-ish armor sets like Stone.  It wasn't the players who decided they were redside's tanks.  It was the design.

 

I can imagine there was probably some discussion about how MMs *could* tank, but in the same sense anyone can, by taking Provoke in the pools and then just trying to keep aggro with constant attacks.  MMs do have the numerical advantage and their pets are at least Scrapper equivalent in terms of threat generation level.  And to a certain extent they can replenish them during a fight as they are defeated.  So doable? Sure.  But hell, I've "tanked" for PuGs on a Stalker before.  IOs make a lot of silly things possible these days.

This was well known and discussed lore on the live boards.  I do not have that saved and memorized though. I seem to remember the dasic idea was bodyguard mode…?)

[Uun]

1 hour ago, Erratic1 said:

I am half-tempted to recruit for a TF of "just damage"--Blasters, Scrappers, and Sentinels. Seismic/Tactical Arrow Blaster comes to mind as something I might want to bring to such a team.

I have been on all blaster ITFs (regular +4 KM, not hard mode). Tons of fun and absolute steamroll.

[Erratic1]

16 minutes ago, Uun said:

I have been on all blaster ITFs (regular +4 KM, not hard mode). Tons of fun and absolute steamroll.

 

I have done mission teams that way but never tried a TF.

[ZemX]

1 minute ago, Snarky said:

This was well known and discussed lore on the live boards.  I do not have that saved and memorized though. I seem to remember the dasic idea was bodyguard mode…?)

 

Masterminds released with CoV on Issue 6.  They got Bodyguard mode in Issue 7.   And yeah, I remember this same discussion on the forums.  Then, like now, lots of nonsense occasionally got discussed on the forums that had no connection with reality in the game.  

 

Brutes were tougher and had better aggro control tools than MMs on release.  The situation in-game was that Brutes were redside's tankers while on the forums a bunch of people were "well actually"ing some silliness about MMs being annointed by the devs as the tanks of redside.  That was either a misquote from some loose talk from a dev somewhere.... or Brutes being better tanks than MMs was a total accident that nobody could have predicted... after the devs designed Brutes to be tougher and have taunt?  I'm sure giving them Stone Armor was just an attempt to trick us into thinking they were redside's tanks!  How gullible we were!  🤪

 

It's mostly an irrelevant historical academic argument though.  I think it's pretty obvious you can build an MM who can tank TODAY.  Bodyguard plus insane levels of personal defense added to the buff/debuff/heal possibilities in the secondary?  Sure.  How well they can hold aggro against squishy high damage teammates?  I have no personal experience there.  Tankerminds claim they can do it.  I can't claim otherwise having never tried it myself.

[KaizenSoze]

3 hours ago, Uun said:

I don't care about the AT. I don't care about the build (anybody can copy a build). I care about who is behind the controls. 

Very much THIS. I am seeing a lot of AT that have a taunt aura or punch voke doing an horrible job of aggro control.

 

The first Market crash mission is a poster child for this, aggro capped players hopping three spawns ahead. Mobs spread out all over the place.

 

Completely ruins any chance of efficient AOE, which makes everything take longer.

[Snarky]

45 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

Very much THIS. I am seeing a lot of AT that have a taunt aura or punch voke doing an horrible job of aggro control.

 

The first Market crash mission is a poster child for this, aggro capped players hopping three spawns ahead. Mobs spread out all over the place.

 

Completely ruins any chance of efficient AOE, which makes everything take longer.

The first market crash is a race to the end mobs.   Unless the team leader says “crawl and or killmost”.  So yes, your heavy melee will be at the far end of the S curve taking on the big boss and the 3-5 spawns entangled in that area.  Hopefully to make things take LESS time

Edited February 8, 2023 by Snarky

[KaizenSoze]

6 minutes ago, Snarky said:

The first market crash is a race to the end mobs.   Unless the team leader says “crawl and or killmost”.  So yes, your heavy melee will be at the far end of the S curve taking on the big boss and the 3-5 spawns entangled in that area.  Hopefully to make things take LESS time

I am only talking about KMs. And it causes things to take longer, because there are often multiple rez'ed tanks spread out and running around attacking the support.

 

I have seen this over and over on this mission. When I play a tank/brute I make a point of waiting for the rezzing mobs.

[Snarky]

6 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

I am only talking about KMs. And it causes things to take longer, because there are often multiple rez'ed tanks spread out and running around attacking the support.

 

I have seen this over and over on this mission. When I play a tank/brute I make a point of waiting for the rezzing mobs.

I started on Brutes.  On live.  when leapfrogging to new mobs was the only way to keep damage up.  ROFLSTOMP teams are in my blood.  I have changed slightly with age.  I played mostly Blasters last year and will be on a Dark3 Corruptor this year.  I still like to be out on the front edge.  I will try to Rez teammates, and get to problems areas to debuff and heal.  Honestly...this tends to kill me and not help much 50% time.  The other half either they solve it or I actually do help.  Most teammates who get themselves into shit they cannot handle will gladly pull you right into the port a potty with them.  Your best teammates are way out there in front at the objective for the mission, or this part of the map.  Even KM does not mean kill all.  Stay with the team.  how many times can I say it.  Stay with the team.  

[cranebump]

My blaster has slows, blinds, stuns, knockdown and holds. Granted not on the order of specialists, but this idea that all a blaster does is damage seems ludicrous. The very type of damage a blaster does often inflicts conditions in its own.

[DougGraves]

1 hour ago, KaizenSoze said:

The first Market crash mission is a poster child for this, aggro capped players hopping three spawns ahead. Mobs spread out all over the place.

 

The problem is that you are playing at high levels where the game is trivially easy.  My dog can run a Pug TF with 7 random ATs (because Snarky quit) and steamroll it.  That is the level at which terrible players play because there is no need for player skill except to kill helpless foes slightly faster.

 

Play a level 19 character in the Hollows where actual player skill is required.  The players are better.  

 

My dog has confirmed that at high levels the game is so ridiculously easy that ATs don't matter.  She also swears she advertised the TF as a speed TF.

[Neiska]

Personally, I care more about the people I am teamed with, more than their ATs, builds, powers, blah blah blah.

If I am with a sub-optimal group, loose, and we still have a great time, I still consider that a win.

We might not succeed at all, and spend the whole time goofing around and cracking jokes and I would still consider that a win.

 

If I am with a kiss-your-elbow META group, best of the best, but some people are ranting/political/aggressive/combative/doesn't play well with others in the team chat, I'll likely leave before we are done, and consider it a waste of my time.

 

Heck, I would even bring @Snarky along, on any team, regardless of his AT, level, or build. And he could do nothing but hang in back and provide commentary like an announcer at a sports event and it would be glorious.

 

My goal isn't to Win at the utmost possible speed. My goal is to have fun. Your goals may be different, and that's okay.

[biostem]

5 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

They are on a team. What was the point of the Tanker? The Controller? 

 

Your scenario seems to presume superior damage people running solo. As kindly as I can put it, that does not really seem to accord with the thread topic's presumption.  Perhaps you should be in less of a rush to be disagreeable?

And you are presuming the superior damage ATs *with* the benefit of all the buffs, debuffs, controls, and so on.  My point was merely that mediocre damage + buffs/debuffs is on par or better than superior damage in the absence of those things.  Perhaps you should be in less of a rush to jump to conclusions regarding the motivations of your interlocutor.

[Troo]

19 minutes ago, DougGraves said:

7 random ATs (because Snarky quit)

 

[biostem]

5 hours ago, Seed22 said:

Hmm…so what you’re saying is mediocre damage and a lil -DR is equal to superior damage and no -DR?  We talkin SOs or IOs?

Well, what you define as "a lil - DR" can make or break that difference.  That being said, depending upon the specific IOs and their set bonuses, certain ATs or powers can "encroach" on the kinds of buffs/debuffs/mitigation that were previously only available from dedicated powers or sets, so things become muddy...

[ZemX]

On 2/7/2023 at 11:18 AM, DougGraves said:

(I'm most excited when I join a team and get leadership buffs because I know those players think about teaming)

 

 

 

Assault, Tactics, and Maneuvers can be taken by someone solely for the benefit they provide the player.

 

Now... if they've taken Vengeance you know they are thinking about teaming! 🤪

[InvaderStych]

46 minutes ago, DougGraves said:

The problem is that you are playing at high levels where the game is trivially easy.  My dog can run a Pug TF with 7 random ATs (because Snarky quit) and steamroll it.  That is the level at which terrible players play because there is no need for player skill except to kill helpless foes slightly faster.

 

Play a level 19 character in the Hollows where actual player skill is required.  The players are better.  

 

[Nyghtmaire]

Do not care in the slightest as to what AT I’m teaming with, merely looking for a minimal level of fun. I expect any team to be the Justice League of Antarctica and typically am (almost always) pleasantly surprised when they are not.

 

That said, prefer all-AT teams over all.

[Uun]

1 hour ago, DougGraves said:

The problem is that you are playing at high levels where the game is trivially easy. 

The final mission of the Market Crash Trial is not trivially easy. It requires knowledge of the AV, the ambushes and the battle mechanics. I've seen many PUGs crash and burn on this mission, particularly if the leader is cocky and tries to run it at +4.

[Grouchybeast]

9 hours ago, Seed22 said:

Grab IO’s. That’s my list. I tank on every AT, one because I don’t wanna sit and wait for folks with SOs to commit unalive, and two because I wanna see if there’s an AT I can’t tank/do superior damage/whatever else the AT does. 
 

Turns out the only AT I can’t do this with is MM. too slow and dependent on pets, but I’ve seen some impressive MMs!

 

I duoed an MM to 50 with a blaster, and I'd describe the MM as an adequately tanky experience.  Less fun as we got into the 30s and the mezzing enemies showed up in force.  I think it's the only character I've ever taken Acrobatics on.

[Sir Myshkin]

I prefer the "User" AT with the powersets "Having/Fun" on my teams, seriously. If I'm setting the oven and baking the team, whatever we're doing I'm going to be running at a level I know I can solo myself at the given parameters meaning everyone else is just along for the ride.

 

15 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

I am half-tempted to recruit for a TF of "just damage"--Blasters, Scrappers, and Sentinels. Seismic/Tactical Arrow Blaster comes to mind as something I might want to bring to such a team.

 

I really want to one up this and make a character called "Just Damage" and exclusively only take powers that do damage. 😄

 

Edit: Okay, it came to mind super fast and I couldn't resist. I did have to give leeway on a few things because it gets hard to fill all the spaces without being forced to take something non-damaging (yay procs to bend the rules!). So this is Storm Damage:

 

Spoiler

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.7
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 49 Magic Corruptor
Primary Power Set: Sonic Attack
Secondary Power Set: Storm Summoning
Power Pool: Experimentation
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Shriek

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Level 1: Gale

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Level 2: Scream

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Level 4: Speed of Sound

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Level 6: Shockwave

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Level 8: Shout

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Level 10: Toxic Dart

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Level 12: Amplify

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Level 14: Corrosive Vial

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Level 18: Sirens Song

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Level 20: Freezing Rain

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Level 24: Hurricane

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Level 49: Victory Rush

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Level 1: Brawl

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Level 1: Scourge

Level 1: Sprint

 

 

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Edited February 9, 2023 by Sir Myshkin

[Shred Monkey]

On 2/7/2023 at 11:18 AM, DougGraves said:

Bottom Tier

 

Blaster - just damage

 

Scrapper - just damage 

 

Sentinel - just damage

 

My take on this subject is that once you have sufficient survivability and someone to prevent runners, you don't need more or those things.  But DAMAGE?  There's no such thing as too much DAMAGE.   This is a main reason why I generally only play DAMAGE dealers.  When I try other options, I feel like I'm always overlapping with other people's roles and not therefore not contributing much.   But added DAMAGE is always helpful.

 

[ZemX]

This thread is no fun!  Stop telling us what wonderful accepting-of-all generous people you are and start dishing dirt.  Admit it!

 

No?  Just me?

 

Fine.   

 

MMs.  I can't stand em.  I'm sure they are fine people.  Probably help old ladies cross the street and donate to their local pet shelters.  But man are pets just annoying!  Chaos.  Pure chaos.  Why did ninjas have to suck?  I love these guys!  They are silent! You barely notice they are there!  Meanwhile robots are all CLOMPCLOMPCLOMPBBBBBZZZZAppppp!  Everywhere.  All the time.  Demons growl.  Wolves poop everywhere.  What? You know they are!

 

Controllers: For the love of Pete... stop with the AoE immob.   This is like the embodiment of "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".  Everything has got to be glued to the floor NOW!  Or confused.  Or... whatever those vines are doing! Ewwww!

 

Tolerance doesn't mean I don't cringe inwardly when I look over a team roster.  It just means I don't make a fuss about it. 😈